Cassava, Tiptoing Into Farming

[loong]

Hi Khonwan, thanks for posting.

I have read up on some info re pre-emergence herbicides that actually suggests that some rain after spraying is a good thing. These were not technical documents though, and you cannot believe everything that you read on the internet.

At least the Sumisoya appears to have done its job as there is almost no weed growth after nearly 4 weeks.

The spraying was done by my BIL and he is a conscientous, hard working man. If ever we expand farming to a scale large enough to employ someone full time, I would want it to be him.

We employed a husband and wife to plant the bottom 2 rai. The setts that they planted the first day are doing very well, much better than the original 6 rai after 1 month. That may be due to no competition from weeds, but most likely a combination of lack of weeds and quality setts planted properly.

The second day, the husband did not show, just the wife and a daughter. These setts have not done anywhere near so well, very little growth. Many have only been pushed into the soil with just 2cm buried. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they didn't soak the setts in hormone before planting.

I don't know whether I should just rip out the poorly planted setts and plant new or not - any advice?

You and Somo have obviously assembled a team of good workers. This early in my farming experience, I am already realising just how important this is. A bad workman does not work for you so much as effectively work against you!

I think that next year I will cut and plant the setts myself, it is the only way to be sure of getting a good job done.

We have been replanting failed setts and those killed by the people weeding - amazing that they can miss so many of the weeds roots yet manage to chop through the cassava roots!

I have been cutting the setts about 20 Cm long and putting about 2/3rds into the soil - does this sound about right?

The missus thought it comical that I was cutting each sett twice, so that the cut was straight across at the top and angled at the bottom. I did this so that I could easily identify which way up to plant.

When she planted setts that I had cut, she found it so much quicker and easier that she is now cutting setts in the same way

I have now learnt that it is important to supervise a workforce, or at least have somebody trustworthy in charge.

[Khonwan]

Hi Loong. Please find my comments in red below.

Rgds

Khonwan

Hi Khonwan, thanks for posting.

I have read up on some info re pre-emergence herbicides that actually suggests that some rain after spraying is a good thing. These were not technical documents though, and you cannot believe everything that you read on the internet. In my experience rain does affect it, unless nothing more than a drizzle.

At least the Sumisoya appears to have done its job as there is almost no weed growth after nearly 4 weeks.

The spraying was done by my BIL and he is a conscientous, hard working man. If ever we expand farming to a scale large enough to employ someone full time, I would want it to be him.

We employed a husband and wife to plant the bottom 2 rai. The setts that they planted the first day are doing very well, much better than the original 6 rai after 1 month. That may be due to no competition from weeds, but most likely a combination of lack of weeds and quality setts planted properly.

The second day, the husband did not show, just the wife and a daughter. These setts have not done anywhere near so well, very little growth. Many have only been pushed into the soil with just 2cm buried.WAY too little! I wouldn't be at all surprised if they didn't soak the setts in hormone before planting. We also add micronutrients including zinc (zinc is vital if insufficient in the soil – easier just to add it; the fertilisers I use do contain micronutrients but they are never quantified) plus pesticide to help prevent mealybug, etc (recommended in the fight against this major pest); all just mixed together in the same bath; very cheap.

I don't know whether I should just rip out the poorly planted setts and plant new or not - any advice?

You and Somo have obviously assembled a team of good workers. I think I’d be tempted to do so but it is already getting quite late in the season to restart; given that the rains are upon us now, the setts will likely be okay. If not too many, plant some new setts beside the suspect ones (if easily identified) then cull one if both come up; cut the new setts longer to let them catch up with the others. This early in my farming experience, I am already realising just how important this is. A bad workman does not work for you so much as effectively work against you! Too true.

I think that next year I will cut and plant the setts myself, it is the only way to be sure of getting a good job done.

We have been replanting failed setts and those killed by the people weeding - amazing that they can miss so many of the weeds roots yet manage to chop through the cassava roots! When hand weeding I have my wife’s team pull the weeds rather than hoe/cut where possible; I expect you do too. Fortunately, I can relie on them to be extra careful in the immediate vicinity of the cassava.

I have been cutting the setts about 20 Cm long and putting about 2/3rds into the soil - does this sound about right? Yes, but I’d prefer to see them at least 25cm; in fact, I usually have the team cut 40cm setts since I find it gives them a better start for more quickly creating a canopy against weeds.

The missus thought it comical that I was cutting each sett twice, so that the cut was straight across at the top and angled at the bottom. I did this so that I could easily identify which way up to plant.

When she planted setts that I had cut, she found it so much quicker and easier that she is now cutting setts in the same way Good idea…would certainly help me if I were doing the planting. Our team are superbly quick at planting correctly.

[somo]

It has taken me a while to get the right people working for me but now I have them lt is great. They are just a husband and wife team but have a big family to call on when we need the manpower. I am helping them to buy a tractor and since they have had that they have built up a great little biz of their own and are never out of work. They also now have more status around the area as they now dish out the work rather than ask for it.

re planting, our setts are usually a bit longer ie about 30cm and probably less than a third pushed into the ground. Done very fast and on the move so no particular attention seems to be paid to the depth

They also cut at an angle but don't bother straightening the top end. I have never asked why but think it may just be that it is easier to push into the soil that way especially if the ground is a bit hard.

[loong]

When hand weeding I have my wife’s team pull the weeds rather than hoe/cut where possible; I expect you do too. Fortunately, I can relie on them to be extra careful in the immediate vicinity of the cassava.

I want the weeds to be hand pulled as much as possible, especially the larger weeds and the clumps of grass. But this doesn't happen. Weeding has been a major nightmare for us so far.

I honestly don't think that the asian hoe (Jawk) is ideal for weeding. Often too heavy and unwieldy for more delicate work. I've looked around for more suitable alternatives, but as yet haven't found any. I did get a couple of hoes with a thinner blade and steel shaft and they are much easier to use.

Somebody posted earlier that an experienced person can hand weed 1 rai in one day. I don't think that anyone here can work that fast.

They hoe down the ridge and deposit so much soil into the channel, that often the ridges are almost levelled out. Many weeds/grasses are not cut and simply re-grow. Often they expose/cut the young cassava roots and during a period of no rain, the cassava will die. Most of the fertiliser that i have hand applied to the ridges has probably been dragged into the channel.

They expect that we will get an iron buffalo to reform the ridges. It has cost us about 500 Bt per rai for hand weeding and if paying 300 Bt for the iron buffalo, this would cost 800 Bt per rai per weeding.

If weeding twice, it's then 1,600 Bt/rai. Basically requiring 1 tonne of harvest per rai just to cover the weeding costs. The weeders have manage to damage or kill so many cassava plants that we are not going to get anywhere near maximum yield.

To be honest I am getting rather dissillusioned, but I'm not a quitter. I am now out the door at 5:30 AM otherwise my missus will go (one of us has to be here to take care of our daughter when she wakes). She has worked so hard as well as working a full time job and I am sure that she will not be keen to rent the land next year if there is little or no reward for all the effort that she has put in.

If we continue with this for a 2nd year, it is obvious that I will have to vastly improve the weed management aspect. If you will excuse the pun I will also have to weed out the inferior workers. Unfortunately, that is probably all of them.

Khonwan, if I remember correctly, you farm around 200 rai. When I look at the other cassava fields around here, most are choked with weeds. From my experience, maybe I now understand why. It seems that yields of about 3 tonne per rai are the norm. Possibly due to competition with the weeds. Are weeds less problematical with a larger area whereas a smaller farm that's surrounded by uncontrolled weeds producing seeds can't be helpful.

Oh well, 4AM, will see if I can get my head down for an hour before heading off to the field

[somo]

Good weed management is vital and you need to be on top of it day one. I budget 1000 Baht/rai.

This includes spraying sumisoya pre emergence chemi and 2 sprayings with paraquat. Sometimes the second

spray isn't needed occasionally it takes 3. I never have any hand weeding done as it is just too expensive and ineffective.

There is usually someone with a machete to deal with bind weed and large stuff prior to spraying.

I also now introduce any fertilizer before ridging. That way it is well dispursed through the soil.

I found that most of it would end up in the gullies if I spread it on the service. Chicken manure seems to give the cassava a fast start thus getting a canopy established faster but the weeds love it too so it is a bit of a race.

These early weeks in the cycle are perhaps the most important. Win the battle there and later you can just sit back and watch it grow

[Khonwan]

I want the weeds to be hand pulled as much as possible, especially the larger weeds and the clumps of grass. But this doesn't happen. Weeding has been a major nightmare for us so far.

I honestly don't think that the asian hoe (Jawk) is ideal for weeding. No use for weeding cassava; our team only take เคียว kieow (fine-toothed scythe) with them for those weeds that cannot be pulled; we use the จอบ jòp for hoeing other areas, ด้าย หญ้า dâai yâa. Often too heavy and unwieldy for more delicate work. I've looked around for more suitable alternatives, but as yet haven't found any. I did get a couple of hoes with a thinner blade and steel shaft and they are much easier to use.

Somebody posted earlier that an experienced person can hand weed 1 rai in one day. I don't think that anyone here can work that fast. My wife was just saying that her team of 6 recently did 15 rai in 1 day; depends on the conditions, of course.

They hoe down the ridge and deposit so much soil into the channel, that often the ridges are almost levelled out. Won’t happen if jop not used. Many weeds/grasses are not cut and simply re-grow. Often they expose/cut the young cassava roots and during a period of no rain, the cassava will die. Most of the fertiliser that i have hand applied to the ridges has probably been dragged into the channel.

They expect that we will get an iron buffalo to reform the ridges. Some folk do that around us but we have never. It has cost us about 500 Bt per rai for hand weeding and if paying 300 Bt for the iron buffalo, this would cost 800 Bt per rai per weeding.

If weeding twice, it's then 1,600 Bt/rai. Basically requiring 1 tonne of harvest per rai just to cover the weeding costs. The weeders have manage to damage or kill so many cassava plants that we are not going to get anywhere near maximum yield.

To be honest I am getting rather dissillusioned, but I'm not a quitter. I am now out the door at 5:30 AM otherwise my missus will go (one of us has to be here to take care of our daughter when she wakes). She has worked so hard as well as working a full time job and I am sure that she will not be keen to rent the land next year if there is little or no reward for all the effort that she has put in.

If we continue with this for a 2nd year, it is obvious that I will have to vastly improve the weed management aspect. If you will excuse the pun I will also have to weed out the inferior workers. Unfortunately, that is probably all of them. Doesn’t sound to me that your workers grow cassava for themselves – ours all have their own cassava farms.

Khonwan, if I remember correctly, you farm around 200 rai. We own 200 rai but farm cassava around 170 rai – about 30 rai taken up with 5 houses, gardens, large godown, ponds, paths, 1 rai bamboo, and a little hill-rice in odd swampy plots. When I look at the other cassava fields around here, most are choked with weeds. From my experience, maybe I now understand why. It seems that yields of about 3 tonne per rai are the norm. Possibly due to competition with the weeds. Are weeds less problematical with a larger area whereas a smaller farm that's surrounded by uncontrolled weeds producing seeds can't be helpful. I would suggest that weed control during the first 3 months, or so, is more important than fertiliser.

Oh well, 4AM, will see if I can get my head down for an hour before heading off to the field. No wonder you are feeling down – you’re not getting enough sleep!

Cheers

Khonwan

PS Thai spelling courtesy of my wife; phonetics courtesy of http://www.thai2english.com

PPS I’ve just seen Somo’s post. I too now add some of my fertiliser immediately prior to ridging (25kg/rai) and find that it makes a remarkable difference in the initial growth spurt. I’ll add also that paraquat can be sprayed carefully if necessary once the cassava is around 30cm high (I’d suggest a hand pump at this stage).

[soidog2]

Everybody is right, what you should remember; the target is not to have the cleanest weed free field, but to make the most money while investing as little as possible.

Watch the experienced growers, they let the weeds grow almost to the point of no return but do not pass it.

Beginners allways spend too much money weeding.

Big weeds should be hand pulled.

[loong]

Hi Somo

Good weed management is vital and you need to be on top of it day one. I budget 1000 Baht/rai.

I certainly agree with you here. It has been difficult to stay on top of the weed problem, I think due to poor sett selection and planting methods and the fact that pre-emergence herbicide was inneffective or not used.

The bottom 1 rai, planted a month ago is growing well. The sumisoya has done its job and there is very little weed growth. I am confident that when the weeds put in an appearance, the cassava will be big enough to enable spraying. It will make life much easier.

I have already exceeded 1000 Bt/rai on the original 6 rai and that doesn't take into account the hours of work that the missus and I have done.

Lesson learnt - good planting methods and sett selection and proper spraying of sumisoya will make weed control 900% easier.

As you say...

These early weeks in the cycle are perhaps the most important. Win the battle there and later you can just sit back and watch it grow

Soidog2

Finally you must have someone with real verified experience help you pick trees for planting.

No self appointed experts in the family. (you will be sorry if you don't listen)

Wise words indeed, not only that, but make sure that setts are planted to the proper depth. I am sure that this has been a main contributing factor to my problems.

[loong]

Khonwan

our team only take kieow (fine-toothed scythe) with them for those weeds that cannot be pulled

I am assuming that this is the same as used to harvest rice? I usually hear it with an initial G instead of the K

เกี่ยว

The one that I am thinking of does not have a long handle, so you would have to get down to the weed level to use it.

Doesn’t sound to me that your workers grow cassava for themselves – ours all have their own cassava farms.

No, these are workers that hire themselves out as and when work is available. A friend of the missus has a cassava farm not too far from us. I will have to go and look at her operation, when the missus has some spare time. Maybe it would be a better idea to hire her team of workers than the inadequate local labour.

No wonder you are feeling down – you’re not getting enough sleep!

I don't have an ideal sleep pattern. Often I'm in bed by 9PM and will wake up for an hour or so at around 2 in the morning. Had a good sleep last night. Went to bed at 21:30 and woke at 4AM

[loong]

Everybody is right, what you should remember; the target is not to have the cleanest weed free field, but to make the most money while investing as little as possible.

Watch the experienced growers, they let the weeds grow almost to the point of no return but do not pass it.

Beginners allways spend too much money weeding.

Big weeds should be hand pulled.

Yes, you are right. I shouldn't get too obsessed with a small amount of weed growth.

The problem here was that the weeds quickly outgrew the cassava. It was actually difficult to see the cassava plants amongst the weeds. The cassava could not compete with the weeds for nutrients and so the weeds had to go. Spraying wasn't an option as the cassava was so small.

[Khonwan]

Hi Loong. When the cassava is at least 30cm but you find the weeds at the same height, hold the weeds down with your feet as you spray paraquat – this is what my team do when required (when Sumisoya washed out by rain). As you say, the k(g)ieow has no dam or shaft – my team of mostly women do indeed bend down or crawl (as I’ve also done in the past).

Rgds

Khonwan

[loong]

Hi Loong. When the cassava is at least 30cm but you find the weeds at the same height, hold the weeds down with your feet as you spray paraquat – this is what my team do when required (when Sumisoya washed out by rain). As you say, the k(g)ieow has no dam or shaft – my team of mostly women do indeed bend down or crawl (as I’ve also done in the past).

Rgds

Khonwan

Does paraquet or glysophate affect the cassava if you accidently spray the green stem, or does it only work on the leaves?

[soidog2]

If only a drop it will weaken the plant, with time it will recover.

A little more, you killed it.

If you are spraying yourself; go real early, make sure the weather is still.

If there is a breeze, go back home even if you think you can do it.

Hold the nozzle as close to the ground as practical, make sure you are using the proper spray head.

Like you were told, step on the large weeds and spray at the base.

Take your time, nobody is paying you.

By now you've got so much advice, your head must be spinning, try to wean yourself and start experimenting.

Only than, your education will be complete.

[loong]

Thanks Soidog,

I understand that once the stem woodies up, the herbicide doesn't penetrate, but wasn't sure about the green stems.

My head isn't quite spinning from the advice, It's great that so many are willing to share their knowledge

I would be a bit nervous of spraying herbicide myself, but if a high degree of care is necessary, given my recent experiences with local labour, I'm reluctant to contract a self proclaimed expert.

Having lost so many cassava plants (in places as much as 50%) because of the poor weeding ability of the hand weeders, I don't know that I could carry on if a sprayer killed even more healthy plants

[loong]

A lot of cassava fields in this area are being harvested now.

Once the field is totally harvested, I see people taking their cows in to graze. I don't know whether they ask permision or not, but suspect that they don't as they don't take the cows in until the field is totally finished, ie when nobody is around to stop them.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. Certainly, the cows will drop dung whilst grazing, but the dung will return a lot less nutrients to the soil than if the whole crop residue was ploughed in.

Anybody have any opinions about this?

[soidog2]

Forget about the cows, after harvest spread your choice fertilizer and plow it in.

[loong]

Forget about the cows, after harvest spread your choice fertilizer and plow it in.

I wasn't considering inviting the cow owners to bring them on the land Soidog, it's just that they are likely to while nobody is there.

Maybe I should put up a sign to say that herbicide has been sprayed when the time comes

[soidog2]

The people driving the cows, usually know all there is to know about the land.

Hopefully when its your time to harvest; the weather will be favorable for planting.

You need to minimize idle time for your rental property.

Plan well in advance (before the harvest) what trees will you use, who will be the planting crew.

Immediately after harvest; when the ground is still soft, spread your fertilizer, plow & plant.

If you end up with a lot of stubborn weeds, you need to plow crisscross.

Do not wait unless its too dry. (than you should not pick unless you need the money)

Best regards.

Edited August 6, 2012 by soidog2

[loong]

New people have taken over a large piece of land that surrounds the village. No idea how many rai, but the rental is about 100,000 Bt/year apparently.

Tractor has been busy ploughing the land. including the piece opposite our house. I'm surprised to see them plough this as it has just been grass in the time that I have been here. Mind you, the soil looks lovely with all the years of cattle grazing. The problem here is that the soil is always waterlogged in the rainy season, I couldn't begin to guess how many pick-ups have been stuck here when trying to turn around. If they are planning to grow cassava, I think that they will need very high ridges.

It's good for me, being a selfish B. Whenever there is a funeral or whatever, they often use this piece of land to set up a mobile movie theatre. Movies at extremely loud volume until 3 or 4AM. I will be very pleased if I no longer have to suffer them anymore.

Where this land adjoins the land I have rented, there is a large gulley that has been carved out by water run-off. Somebody had planted vetiver grass to prevent the gulley widening. My side is ok because of bamboo roots holding the soil. The tractor has ripped out the grass and filled in the gulley. I don't profess to be any sort of expert, but this person doesn't seem to have any idea about soil erosion. I'm sure that when the heavy rains come, the gulley will naturally form again, probably wider than before and all the soil that he has moved will be lost.

[Khonwan]

Loong, let’s hope the gully doesn’t alter course into your land!

Rgds

Khonwan

[loong]

Loong, let’s hope the gully doesn’t alter course into your land!

Rgds

Khonwan

That did cross my mind. I walked the full length and pretty sure that will not happen. There is a raised track my side that is higher than the land. Been packed down hard with years of motorbike and tractor movements. Without that track I would be concerned.

[Monkeypants]

Is it possible to plant cassava now, this time of year, assuming I could get the stems ?

[Khonwan]

I’d normally say it’s a bit late since much rain-fed irrigation has been missed but you’ve missed nothing this year! You can plant cassava now and harvest it in April 2013 or thereafter.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Monkeypants]

Thanks Khonwan

[loong]

Is it possible to plant cassava now, this time of year, assuming I could get the stems ?

As Khonwan says, not really been much rain this year.

Some of the fields around here were only harvested at the beginning of the month. So not replanted yet (assuming that they will stay with cassava.

If possible, it may be worth considering harvesting at the end of 2013 rainy season, would give you a 16 month crop?

I imagine that you have no shortage of chicken shit, so plenty to plough in.

[Monkeypants]

I imagine that you have no shortage of chicken shit, so plenty to plough in.

Exactly, our current batch of chickens will be gone in about 3 weeks time, was thinking of ploughing some in and using the 6 rai or so we have standing idle to grow a crop, that needs very little care after the initial month or so, our problem is we cannot spray pesticides etc, when we have chickens in the shed.

So instead of having idle land, if we make a little, with not much effort, we will be happy, Just to see the fields looking tidy with cassava, will be enough for me.

Thanks again.

If anyone wants some chicken shit, I guess you would have to live fairly close to me { Phetchabun} drop me a line.

We have a regular guy who will buy our chicken shit by the truck load, he lives in Loei, and sends 3 trucks over for it, so it must be worth his while.

But also local farmers here want it too, and usually we have orders months in advance.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Monkeypants

[loong]

Had a pretty intense storm here a couple of weeks ago, didn't last long, but a huge volume of water fell in an hour.

I was on the land at the time and this is the first time that I have actually witnessed the sheer power of water run off.

I could only watch helplessly as the water decided where it wanted to go and ripped through the ridges as if they weren't there.

Obvously, I need to rethink about my efforts to limit soil erosion. The vetiver grass that I had planted had not had time to grow any amount of new roots and was just washed away in places. Damage was concentrated, not widespread, so not so bad

Since that storm, there has been extreme growth of weeds and grasses in the lower 2 rai. Sumisoya pre-emergence no longer effective. So, once again, back to weed control. I've started spraying with glyphosate, held off for a while as rain was forecast most days. Rain that didn't come, so I no longer believe the weather forecasts.

Did a bit of spraying under clear sky this morning. Immediately followed by a thunderstorm, so a waste of time, I guess. Bright sunshine again now.

[loong]

The missus had a message the other day that somebody in the next village was offering to buy our crop in the top 6 rai.

The unsolicited offer was 9,000 Baht! That is verging on being insulting!! and would basically only cover the cost of the land rent and ploughing.

With the message came the remark that the cassava did not have much in the way of root. How can they know that? It suggests that they have been uprooting and examining some of our crop without contacting us first. If so, what a cheek!!

I don't know how much root a crop should have at 5 months after planting anyway.

I am having serious doubts that we will manage to break even with this crop, but I am not about to accept such a low offer.

The rain, or rather the lack of it has not been at all helpful. Incredible to read about flooding in other parts of the country when we are getting day after day of blazing hot sunshine.

This "rainy" season we have had hardly any periods of steady rain, it has mostly just been the occasional extremely heavy thunderstorm. A massive amount of water falling in a short period that hardly has time to soak in and mostly runs off, taking soil (and probably the fertiliser) with it.

Mid October now and so the cool/dry season will be here soon.

[soidog2]

The missus had a message the other day that somebody in the next village was offering to buy our crop in the top 6 rai.

The unsolicited offer was 9,000 Baht! That is verging on being insulting!! and would basically only cover the cost of the land rent and ploughing.

With the message came the remark that the cassava did not have much in the way of root. How can they know that? It suggests that they have been uprooting and examining some of our crop without contacting us first. If so, what a cheek!!

I don't know how much root a crop should have at 5 months after planting anyway.

I am having serious doubts that we will manage to break even with this crop, but I am not about to accept such a low offer.

The rain, or rather the lack of it has not been at all helpful. Incredible to read about flooding in other parts of the country when we are getting day after day of blazing hot sunshine.

This "rainy" season we have had hardly any periods of steady rain, it has mostly just been the occasional extremely heavy thunderstorm. A massive amount of water falling in a short period that hardly has time to soak in and mostly runs off, taking soil (and probably the fertiliser) with it.

Mid October now and so the cool/dry season will be here soon.

At five month, your tubers should be about a healthy potato size.

The math is simple, take a low price of 2.8 baht per ton (at 12 month) for your finished crop, mutliply by x rai, deduct picking & selling expenses.

Now take an average of 4.5 ton per rai yeld for your land, multily by x rai again, this is your gross expected income, see how it squares with above after deducting all past & future expenses.

How much per rai do you have invested allready ?

[loong]

Hi Soidog,

including rent, my expenses to date amount to around 4,500 Baht per rai. God knows how many hours of my time as well.

I haven't lifted any plants, so I have no idea what size the roots are at the moment. Rate of growth has not been consistent, maybe due to different quality of soil in patches. The tallest plants are over 7 feet tall, mostly multi branched and it can be extremely difficult to walk between rows.

The best growing rows are those that were hand weeded by either myself or the missus.

As mentioned in an earlier post some of the people we employed to weed managed to chop the cassava roots and the plants were unable to recover with the dry weather and we had to replant a lot.

I really doubt that we will achieve 4.5 tonne per rai. The previous tenant could only manage about 2 tonnes. I expected to be able to improve on that, but it has not been much better than drought conditions here so I really don't know what to expect.