I Want A Lawn . . .

[JuniorExPat]

Okay, I know that lawns are boring and not the most eco-friendly things to have around. Until I have the cash/time/inspiration to sit down and really work out how the garden should look I think a lawn would be a lot more attractive and children friendly than the scrubland cum builder's rubble that we have now.

Whilst I go off bending ears and searching the interweb thingy I thought it would be a good idea to tap into the wisdom and experience of ThaiVisa (a little sucking up never hurts!). I have searched the Chiang Mai forum for 'lawns' and 'gardeners' to no avail.

I guess that I have about 150 talang wah of suitable area for lawn, so . . .

Has anyone had a good experience getting a lawn laid?

Any reccomendations for someone who could do it? (Including clearing the gravel and odds and sods of building rubbish.)

What should it cost?

Is it sensible to try the D.I.Y. approach?

Where can turf be bought?

Are there some grasses that are better than others for Chiang Mai?

Any pearls of wisdom will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

JxP

[sbk]

We've found something called "ya yippun" (japanese grass) to be the best for down here. Altho it isn't quite the same climate we do have an extensive dry period as well and the japanese grass handles it best. It likes full sun and will stay short in full sun, but will tend to grow too thick and long in shady areas.

[highonthai]

I have been told that behind Tesco (hangdong road) there is a place that sells sod at a good price.

[Ajarn]

I also agree with the "ya yippun"... It's shorter (and more expensive) than the 'yaa malaysia', a longer, weedier type of grass, in my experience...

If you do get it installed by a company (no idea who) make sure that they use a good backing of 'din dam' (black dirt, full of nutrients) otherwise, your grass will only last a season or two. Yesterday I watched a crew install some grass over packed laterite clay (the red stuff) at my neighbors place. It won't last long, to be sure.

The best place I've found to buy either grass is Kamtiang market, behind Tesco. Prices range from 15 baht (yaa malaysia) to 20 baht per piece (yaa yippun).

If you need a guy to install it, I can recommend 'Phon' at 09-701-9317. He doesn't speak English

[chanchao]

There's a big grass shop on the superhighway where the U-turn with the stupid Japanese traffic lights is. (Opposite Wat Jed Yod). You can't miss it, look for the grass-stash. (Hmm.. )

They sell grass by the piece, for a good price. For my modest lawn I could fit the whole lawn in a pick-up truck, but for 150 sq. wah I would either get them to deliver or it would require a couple of trips. I'm sure they sell the good black soil too. Instant lawn.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chownah]

If you want to do it yourself then the easiest way is to just cut the weeds regularly and eventually the grasses will predominate....that's what my wife did and it seems to work fairly well....although it is not instant and not a world class lawn.....but pleasant enough for many people. Luckily we had good dirt to start with but if you don't then you can buy it by the truckload. There are basically two sizes of dump trucks that bring dirt (where I live) The small one is two cubic metres and the big one is four cubic metres so be sure you know which one you're getting when comparing prices and when calculating how much you'll need.

[JuniorExPat]

We've found something called "ya yippun" (japanese grass) to be the best for down here. Altho it isn't quite the same climate we do have an extensive dry period as well and the japanese grass handles it best. It likes full sun and will stay short in full sun, but will tend to grow too thick and long in shady areas.

Ok - noted - will look out for Japanese grass, thanks sbk.

JxP

I also agree with the "ya yippun"... It's shorter (and more expensive) than the 'yaa malaysia', a longer, weedier type of grass, in my experience...

If you do get it installed by a company (no idea who) make sure that they use a good backing of 'din dam' (black dirt, full of nutrients) otherwise, your grass will only last a season or two. Yesterday I watched a crew install some grass over packed laterite clay (the red stuff) at my neighbors place. It won't last long, to be sure.

The best place I've found to buy either grass is Kamtiang market, behind Tesco. Prices range from 15 baht (yaa malaysia) to 20 baht per piece (yaa yippun).

If you need a guy to install it, I can recommend 'Phon' at 09-701-9317. He doesn't speak English

Thanks Ajarn for the confirmation on Japanese vs Malaysian and it sounds like you are seconding highonthai's place to buy.

For some reason I always thought sand was an important ingredient in lawn laying but it looks like I need to find a big bucket of din dam.

If I decide that it's too much of a challenge and contact Phon, should I let him know that you recommended him? (Will he know who Ajarn on ThaiVisa is?!).

BTW, what sort of size piece does 20 baht buy?

Thanks again,

JxP

There's a big grass shop on the superhighway where the U-turn with the stupid Japanese traffic lights is. (Opposite Wat Jed Yod). You can't miss it, look for the grass-stash. (Hmm.. )

They sell grass by the piece, for a good price. For my modest lawn I could fit the whole lawn in a pick-up truck, but for 150 sq. wah I would either get them to deliver or it would require a couple of trips. I'm sure they sell the good black soil too. Instant lawn.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Hi Chanchao, thanks, now I remember seeing that place some time back. I think I'll go and check out their stash as well as the kamtieng market.

Not sure if this will be a permanent feature - medium-term memory has just kicked in and reminded me how the garden looked during the floods . . . . . . . hmmmm. Maybe I need to be building a dam before laying a lawn!

JxP

If you want to do it yourself then the easiest way is to just cut the weeds regularly and eventually the grasses will predominate....that's what my wife did and it seems to work fairly well....although it is not instant and not a world class lawn.....but pleasant enough for many people. Luckily we had good dirt to start with but if you don't then you can buy it by the truckload. There are basically two sizes of dump trucks that bring dirt (where I live) The small one is two cubic metres and the big one is four cubic metres so be sure you know which one you're getting when comparing prices and when calculating how much you'll need.

Good idea Chownah - that's the theory that I have been trying to work on up until now but no matter how much gravel, stone, rubble etc I pick out, more seems to rise to the surface!!

Maybe I'll just get the din dam and see what grows out of it before getting into laying turf . . . .

Thanks

JxP

Sorry - I don't seem to have mastered the 'QUOTE's - apologies for the overlengthy posts . . . .

JxP

Sorry - I don't seem to have mastered the 'QUOTE's - apologies for the overlengthy posts . . . .

JxP

[chanchao]

> Not sure if this will be a permanent feature - medium-term memory

> has just kicked in and reminded me how the garden looked during

> the floods . . . . . . . hmmmm. Maybe I need to be building a dam

> before laying a lawn!

Grass survives flooding. (After it takes root, obviously). My lawn was totally covered in the muddy water but it was just fine afterwards. I guess the grass even liked the additional good mud.

[Ajarn]

Thanks Ajarn for the confirmation on Japanese vs Malaysian and it sounds like you are seconding highonthai's place to buy.

Different Tesco.. The one I'm referring to is on the northside of town, across from Lanna Hospital

For some reason I always thought sand was an important ingredient in lawn laying but it looks like I need to find a big bucket of din dam.

Sand is good for drainage, but I'd say the din dam is most important

If I decide that it's too much of a challenge and contact Phon, should I let him know that you recommended him? (Will he know who Ajarn on ThaiVisa is?!).

He's more likely to know me as 'the fat farang from muubaan Tanawan'

BTW, what sort of size piece does 20 baht buy?

My guess is 100 centimeters x 50 centimeters...

Thanks again,

JxP

You're welcome, sir

Edited January 6, 2006 by Ajarn

[JuniorExPat]

I have been told that behind Tesco (hangdong road) there is a place that sells sod at a good price.

Thanks highonthai - I was thinking of the big garden market behind the other Tesco but Ajarn just pointed out that you are talking about the Hang Dong Tesco which would be more convenient for me - I will do some exploring over the weekend.

JxP

[jomama]

Ajarn's advice is spot on.

I found out the hard way, tilled the small bit of land we have, brought in scores of bags of black dirt -- and planted Bermuda grass from seed! Not wise. It rained after that and washed the seed away. The shoots that surived didn't do well in this environment. Later I learned the expensive cans of seed I bought were meant for putting greens at golf courses.

We then we put in Japanese grass and that did well except for under trees where there is not good direct sunlight. Because we have some big trees in the front we put in Malaysian grass and that has flourished. In the back we now have a hodge-podge of Burmuda grass that did survive, Japanese grass and Malyasian grass that seems to be dominant over all the rest. Very hardy stuff. There are also wild grasses or sedges that have moved in.

You need to dig out some of the existing "soil" -- which is laterite when dry and clay when wet -- and put in real soil. If I had to do it over, I would first put in a good layer of clean sand and then black dirt. Then of course the turf.

The turf itself seems to be available seasonally; not surprisingly, it's most available after the rainy season.

[JuniorExPat]

If I decide that it's too much of a challenge and contact Phon, should I let him know that you recommended him? (Will he know who Ajarn on ThaiVisa is?!).

He's more likely to know me as 'the fat farang from muubaan Tanawan' biggrin.gif

Yep, that description seemed to work!

506.5 sq m (125+ talang wah) - B34,792.50 - including clearing and preparing, din dam, turf and laying.

Using 'ya nuwam(??) noi' @ B40 per metre instead of 'ya yippun' @ B45 per metre.

Sounds like a lot of cash to me but works out at about B70 per metre which seems to be cheaper than I have heard others mention.

What do you reckon? Any words of wisdom from the audience?

JxP

[chownah]

You could find out how much din dam comes with the deal. It seems kind of high to me but maybe that's because I live in a small village where things are cheaper. Around here a 4 cubic metre truck of din dam costs about 300 baht. If you want to use 10 cm of din dam on 500 sq meters then you need 50 cubic metres and its best to allow for 50% compaction (this is a liberal estimate) so you really need about 75 cubic metres which is about 20 truckloads so that would be 6,000 baht.....maybe where you live it will cost twice as much because it has to be trucked further so you that ups it to 12,000baht for the dirt....and for this much dirt around here you might get a tractor free to push it around and level it....if not then add 1000 baht for the tractor. The turf itself if its 50 baht per square metre will cost 2,500 baht.......so far the estimate is up to 15,500 baht but you need to estimate the clearing of the debris and the laying of the sod. Maybe you could get an estimate for just the sod with installation and then see if you can contract the dirt and debris removal seperately.

The scenerio above will give you at least 10 cm of din dam....I'll bet that the contractor you are dealing with will only provide half of that...you should find out because if so then my estimate gets reduced by 6,000 baht which means that for about 10,000 baht you could get the dirt installed and the sod purchased....you can buy alot of debris removal and sod installation for the extra 24,792.50 baht which you will be paying if you contract the work at your stated price.

Have you even checked to see what your soil is like under the debris? It might be just fine exactly as it is. Also, do you want your lawn to be 10 cm or even 5 cm higher? Will this cause/increase flooding? If you don't want the extra height then you need to get an estimate for removing some dirt first along with the debris.

It's always easier to pay more money and more work to save money!

[Ajarn]

If I decide that it's too much of a challenge and contact Phon, should I let him know that you recommended him? (Will he know who Ajarn on ThaiVisa is?!).

He's more likely to know me as 'the fat farang from muubaan Tanawan' biggrin.gif

Yep, that description seemed to work!

506.5 sq m (125+ talang wah) - B34,792.50 - including clearing and preparing, din dam, turf and laying.

Using 'ya nuwam(??) noi' @ B40 per metre instead of 'ya yippun' @ B45 per metre.

Sounds like a lot of cash to me but works out at about B70 per metre which seems to be cheaper than I have heard others mention.

What do you reckon? Any words of wisdom from the audience?

JxP

All I can say about Phon is that I've had about 4 years experience with him. He built 3 waterfalls in my garden, 1 sala. Excellent work, good guy. He has always charged me a more than reasonable fee for his work. Sometimes he uses his grandfather on his work crew (kinda useless), but Phon makes up for any deficiencies by working harder himself.

[mobile69]

The turf itself if its 50 baht per square metre will cost 2,500 baht.......

500 square metres @ 50 baht = ........

[chownah]

The turf itself if its 50 baht per square metre will cost 2,500 baht.......

500 square metres @ 50 baht = ........

oooooooooooooooooooops!!! (red faced) it did seem like my cost estimate for the turf was small relative to the other costs.....guess I should have.....wish I would have.....

[JuniorExPat]

You could find out how much din dam comes with the deal. It seems kind of high to me but maybe that's because I live in a small village where things are cheaper. Around here a 4 cubic metre truck of din dam costs about 300 baht. If you want to use 10 cm of din dam on 500 sq meters then you need 50 cubic metres and its best to allow for 50% compaction (this is a liberal estimate) so you really need about 75 cubic metres which is about 20 truckloads so that would be 6,000 baht.....maybe where you live it will cost twice as much because it has to be trucked further so you that ups it to 12,000baht for the dirt....and for this much dirt around here you might get a tractor free to push it around and level it....if not then add 1000 baht for the tractor. The turf itself if its 50 baht per square metre will cost 2,500 baht.......so far the estimate is up to 15,500 baht but you need to estimate the clearing of the debris and the laying of the sod. Maybe you could get an estimate for just the sod with installation and then see if you can contract the dirt and debris removal seperately.

The scenerio above will give you at least 10 cm of din dam....I'll bet that the contractor you are dealing with will only provide half of that...you should find out because if so then my estimate gets reduced by 6,000 baht which means that for about 10,000 baht you could get the dirt installed and the sod purchased....you can buy alot of debris removal and sod installation for the extra 24,792.50 baht which you will be paying if you contract the work at your stated price.

Have you even checked to see what your soil is like under the debris? It might be just fine exactly as it is. Also, do you want your lawn to be 10 cm or even 5 cm higher? Will this cause/increase flooding? If you don't want the extra height then you need to get an estimate for removing some dirt first along with the debris.

It's always easier to pay more money and more work to save money!

chownah - thanks for all the effort that went into your reply, it's given me some things to mull over.

I tend to stay away from these negotiations until it is all pretty much agreed, I find that Mrs JxP gets better prices than me!

The drainage has been taken into account and we do need a reasonable covering of din dam here that is for sure.

I'll give you the breaksown of the quote that I have because I guess it may come in useful for other people:

- 506.5 sq m of turf (ya nuwan noi) at B40/m - B20,260

- 12 small truckloads of din dam @ B1,000 per load - B12,000 (yes, I must check how small a small truckload is!)

- clearing and preparation and laying etc @ B5/m - B2532.50

It's worth noting that the turf and din dam would have to be paid for on delivery to the suppliers and not to K Phon.

JxP

The turf itself if its 50 baht per square metre will cost 2,500 baht.......

500 square metres @ 50 baht = ........

oooooooooooooooooooops!!! (red faced) it did seem like my cost estimate for the turf was small relative to the other costs.....guess I should have.....wish I would have.....

###### - I was starting to think that I could get the lawn laid and get some 'cash-back'!

JxP

[JuniorExPat]

All I can say about Phon is that I've had about 4 years experience with him. He built 3 waterfalls in my garden, 1 sala. Excellent work, good guy. He has always charged me a more than reasonable fee for his work. Sometimes he uses his grandfather on his work crew (kinda useless), but Phon makes up for any deficiencies by working harder himself. smile.gif

Mrs JxP seems to like him and your recommendation kind of polishes his halo off nicely!

Has anyone heard of this ya nuwan noi?

JxP

[mobile69]

Anyone know the name of that broad leafed "grass", which seems to perform well in the dry season here - keeps a richer, brighter green. You see it by the traffic lights by the flyover where you cross the Hangdong Rd going to / from Airport plaza. Doesn't seem to burn out like the normal turf. Anyone have this on their lawn & recommend?

[Dustoff]

Anyone know the name of that broad leafed "grass", which seems to perform well in the dry season here - keeps a richer, brighter green. You see it by the traffic lights by the flyover where you cross the Hangdong Rd going to / from Airport plaza. Doesn't seem to burn out like the normal turf. Anyone have this on their lawn & recommend?

That is probably the one these folks are referring to as Malaysia grass and is our next project.

We have been staying in a couple of the gated communities near the south end of the airport and finally bought a house. Japanese grass was recommended and we went for it but it was a mistake. Too many trees and this grass obviously doesn't do well in shade. We have been comparing grasses in the communities for a few months and the broadleaf Malaysia has become our first choice.

We have also noticed that wherever the builders mixed their cement = poor growth of both grass and our hedge. Digging those areas out are a priority and replacing with sand+black soil for sure.

Good luck!