Govt Scales Down Nuclear Plan

[Lite Beer]

Govt scales down nuclear plan

BANGKOK, 11 June 2012 (NNT) – The National Energy Policy Council has agreed to the third revision of the Power Development Plan (PDP) and scaled down the nuclear power plant plans.

Energy Minister Arak Chonlatanon revealed after a meeting, chaired by Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, that the National Energy Policy Council agreed to the third revision of the 2010-2030 PDP, in response to the rising electricity demands due to the government's plans to go ahead with a number of infrastructures projects.

The council also approved a plan to generate 25% of the overall energy from alternative energy within 10 years. Under the plan, the nation's energy reserve will account for at least 15 percent of the country's maximum energy demand.

Thailand will also seek to produce at least 10 percent of the overall power production in the formof renewable energy

In the meantime, the generation of electricity from nuclear power plant has been scaled down from 10% to 5% of all energy production. The planned nuclear power plant plan has also been put off for three years, from 2023 to 2026, to make sure of the safety issues.

-- NNT 2012-06-11

[MunterHunter]

Thank f... for that!

Can you imagine the Shinawatra administration in charge of a nuclear generator...???

[Moruya]

It's only because they have spent all the nation's dosh

[Payboy]

been put off for three years, from 2023 to 2026

Suits me, I'll be sterile by then anyway.

[Soutpeel]

been put off for three years, from 2023 to 2026

Suits me, I'll be sterile by then anyway.

Lets asumme 2026...the first power wouldnt be until around 2034 then...

[Payboy]

been put off for three years, from 2023 to 2026

Suits me, I'll be sterile by then anyway.

Lets asumme 2026...the first power wouldnt be until around 2034 then...

Cannot wait to glow in the dark.

[GentlemanJim]

Well I wouldn't call it a scaling down, it is a decimating. The plan appears to be cutting the project by 50%. However, thank the Lord for small mercy's as the standard of Governance and Leadership that has been displayed over the last 12 months makes the prospect of nuclear facilities in Thailand a very frightening one. What a target of opportunity that would be for Jatuporn and Nattawut and a hoard of frenzied red shirts at some future political protest - "I want every red shirt to invade the nuclear power station and pull it down brick by brick. We will be behind you all the way brothers and sisters" (about 8000 kilometers behind you).

[Soutpeel]

"I want every red shirt to invade the nuclear power station and pull it down brick by brick.

ah but that would be the first flaw in their cunning plan....they are not built with bricks...

[OzMick]

According to the World Bank electricity demand was 105,000 GWh for 2011, increasing at 6.5% pa (i.e. all but doubling over 10 years), so demand is currently around 300GWh/day.

The aim is to have 25% (75GWh) generated by "alternate" power sources solar and wind. But what does that mean?

Take solar first. Solar is only available say 12hours /day (and that is being ridiculously generous, it closer to 8 at full generation) so 36GWh divided by 12 gives 3GW or 3,000 MW output. the biggest solar plant in the world is being built at Moree in NSW, 150MW at a proposed cost (yeah sure) of >AU$1 billion. For Thailand to generate 3GW they would need to build 20 of these at at least THB600 billion, and another 18 by 2022.

Well, what about wind. 2 MW wind turbine generators are around THB100 million, so a rated capacity of 1.5 GW would require 750. But wait, most wind farms only output 1/3 of rated power, so make that 2250 2MW generators AT LEAST or THB225 billion with 90% more in 10 years.

[Unkomoncents]

I can't see this nuclear power plant plan as a genuine proposal; this must just be to save face. They just scaled the plan back 50%, such that only 5% of the nation's power would be generated by nuclear power. That hardly justifies the expense and risk of managing a nuclear power station in Thailand. They won't be having nuclear power in Thailand any time in the next few decades. The Thai regulatory apparatus can barely manage the opening of new BTS stations, let alone the production of nuclear power. There is likely to be little public interest/concern, regarding this method of power generation, and I cannot imagine how they would hire engineers (they would HAVE to hire foreign experts and provide them with work permits, etc, etc as there isn't a shred of the competence necessary to handle such ventures in the Kingdom). This is just Thai nonsense.

[belg]

many countries are shutting them down at high cost of tax payer money (the electrical company only takes the profits as privatised but not the costs of clean up) => belgium and electrabel for example

what i still do not understand here in thailand : what does the country have ample of 12 hours per day ?

sun, sun and sun...

free for all, a little cost to harvest it ... why not make more use of it ???

[xthAi76s]

I can't see this nuclear power plant plan as a genuine proposal; this must just be to save face. They just scaled the plan back 50%, such that only 5% of the nation's power would be generated by nuclear power. That hardly justifies the expense and risk of managing a nuclear power station in Thailand. They won't be having nuclear power in Thailand any time in the next few decades. The Thai regulatory apparatus can barely manage the opening of new BTS stations, let alone the production of nuclear power. There is likely to be little public interest/concern, regarding this method of power generation, and I cannot imagine how they would hire engineers (they would HAVE to hire foreign experts and provide them with work permits, etc, etc as there isn't a shred of the competence necessary to handle such ventures in the Kingdom). This is just Thai nonsense.

The Thai regulatory apparatus can barely manage the opening of new BTS stations, let alone the production of nuclear power.

Excellent! Presently, there should have been 12 (that's right 10 more than there are) BTS lines criss-crossing the city. They need to stop with their silly imaginations RE nuclear power.

[GentlemanJim]

According to the World Bank electricity demand was 105,000 GWh for 2011, increasing at 6.5% pa (i.e. all but doubling over 10 years), so demand is currently around 300GWh/day.

The aim is to have 25% (75GWh) generated by "alternate" power sources solar and wind. But what does that mean?

Take solar first. Solar is only available say 12hours /day (and that is being ridiculously generous, it closer to 8 at full generation) so 36GWh divided by 12 gives 3GW or 3,000 MW output. the biggest solar plant in the world is being built at Moree in NSW, 150MW at a proposed cost (yeah sure) of >AU$1 billion. For Thailand to generate 3GW they would need to build 20 of these at at least THB600 billion, and another 18 by 2022.

Well, what about wind. 2 MW wind turbine generators are around THB100 million, so a rated capacity of 1.5 GW would require 750. But wait, most wind farms only output 1/3 of rated power, so make that 2250 2MW generators AT LEAST or THB225 billion with 90% more in 10 years.

Good post! Careful you don't fuel them with accurate info! Your figures would elude to huge opportunities for ....graft!

[OzMick]

many countries are shutting them down at high cost of tax payer money (the electrical company only takes the profits as privatised but not the costs of clean up) => belgium and electrabel for example

what i still do not understand here in thailand : what does the country have ample of 12 hours per day ?

sun, sun and sun...

free for all, a little cost to harvest it ... why not make more use of it ???

Because it is expensive to install and has a low capacity factor, that is ratio of electricity actually produced to peak performance output, usually around 19% in sunny climates, because the sun don't shine at night.

The Australian solar farm (estimated cost THB30 billion) rated at 150MW takes up 12 sq km. Imagine the stink when rice farmers are kicked off their land to generate power for the BKK amart.

for anybody really interested in solar power, I recommend this link for an engineer's attitude to it ie real figures.

http://papundits.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/solar-power-australia-the-moree-solar-plant/

The

[bangkokheat]

this country has a lot of plans, I dont like the sounds of this one, thailand and nuclear power, can you use those two words in the same sentence? vietnam is looking pretty good

[Payboy]

"I want every red shirt to invade the nuclear power station and pull it down brick by brick.

Love it ! Sort of like the invasion of Suvarnabhumi, prick by prick.

[bigbamboo]

this country has a lot of plans, I dont like the sounds of this one, thailand and nuclear power, can you use those two words in the same sentence? vietnam is looking pretty good

To anyone who doubts Thailand having a nuclear programme is a scary concept I would offer just three words of advice............... Science Minister Plodrasop.

[gand]

Can Thais manage a nuclear power plant? They don't seem to manage dams very well.

[rubl]

The planned nuclear power plant plan has also been put off for three years, from 2023 to 2026, to make sure of the safety issues.

This fits nicely with a statement our PM made on the 31st of March after her visit to South Korea to attend the Nuclear Security Summit:

"She explained that although Thailand is not involved with nuclear activities, the country needs to be equipped with information and understanding of the matter as Thailand's readiness in handling these issues will be taken into consideration by foreign investors."

http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/348202.html

Three more years to show readiness

[OzMick]

The planned nuclear power plant plan has also been put off for three years, from 2023 to 2026, to make sure of the safety issues.

This fits nicely with a statement our PM made on the 31st of March after her visit to South Korea to attend the Nuclear Security Summit:

"She explained that although Thailand is not involved with nuclear activities, the country needs to be equipped with information and understanding of the matter as Thailand's readiness in handling these issues will be taken into consideration by foreign investors."

http://www.mcot.net/...age/348202.html

Three more years to show readiness

And if you remove the BS it boils down to "I didn't want to go to parliament."

Why didn't Plodrasop go and explore the possibility of nuclear powered vessels for flood mitigation?

[sirchai]

Nuclear power plants, Chinese high speed trains, tablets and speed boats in case of a flood.....

Also called Russian Roulette............

[IsaanUSA]

Seriously, you guys forget thread topics a few months after they are posted.

Thailand does have a very tiny nuclear reactor. It was almost flooded out last year!

Thailand Institute of Nuclear Technology (TINT)

although floodwater has reached the Institute on Vibhavadi Rangsit Road, TINT has so far been spared flooding.

Located on the third floor of the Institute, 8.70 metres above the ground, the nuclear reactor is surrounded by a one-metre thick concrete wall in a 240 cubic metre pool which could resist water pressure as great as one to two tonnes, Ms Sirinat said.

[rubl]

Seriously, you guys forget thread topics a few months after they are posted.

Thailand does have a very tiny nuclear reactor. It was almost flooded out last year!

http://www.thaivisa....tions-thailand/

Thailand Institute of Nuclear Technology (TINT)

although floodwater has reached the Institute on Vibhavadi Rangsit Road, TINT has so far been spared flooding.

Located on the third floor of the Institute, 8.70 metres above the ground, the nuclear reactor is surrounded by a one-metre thick concrete wall in a 240 cubic metre pool which could resist water pressure as great as one to two tonnes, Ms Sirinat said.

I know, but maybe you should tell PM Yingluck who on the 31st of March returning from South Korea explained during her "Yingluck Government Meets the People" television program "... that although Thailand is not involved with nuclear activities, ..."

(see post 19 for MCOT link)

[IsaanUSA]

good point rubl. I don't think a prime minister could blame ignorance on not knowing a detail like that.

Anyways the headline should be "25% of energy to come from alternate sources". Hydro power must be considered an alternate source then, right? Coal as an alternate to wood?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_energy

[PingManDan]

Thank f... for that!

Can you imagine the Shinawatra administration in charge of a nuclear generator...???

I can't imagine any Thais running it, why pick on the Shinawatra administration (signally)

[Soutpeel]

Seriously, you guys forget thread topics a few months after they are posted.

Thailand does have a very tiny nuclear reactor. It was almost flooded out last year!

http://www.thaivisa....tions-thailand/

Thailand Institute of Nuclear Technology (TINT)

although floodwater has reached the Institute on Vibhavadi Rangsit Road, TINT has so far been spared flooding.

Located on the third floor of the Institute, 8.70 metres above the ground, the nuclear reactor is surrounded by a one-metre thick concrete wall in a 240 cubic metre pool which could resist water pressure as great as one to two tonnes, Ms Sirinat said.

I would be more worried if the reactor pool wasnt flooded... then you would have real problems .....also the 1-2 tonnes quote is incorrect...

[OzMick]

good point rubl. I don't think a prime minister could blame ignorance on not knowing a detail like that.

Anyways the headline should be "25% of energy to come from alternate sources". Hydro power must be considered an alternate source then, right? Coal as an alternate to wood?

http://en.wikipedia....ernative_energy

Hydro is considered a major source - world figures are fossil fuels 87%, HEP and Nuke 6% each, alternate 1%.

Wood is a renewable with other ag. by-products and a whole new loser's game. Most have high moisture contents which take a lot of energy to flash off, and which make them heavy and costly to transport.

[oops]

Nice

Before they spend billions of baht on a Nuclear program maybe they should spend a bit more in educating the masses

so there will actually be someone around that knows to be proactive not reactive" no pun intended " to a problem.

I can just see them now standing around a Nuclear plant now....laughing OOPS! what a show

Look it those people glow..and how come none of them have hair they look funny

OK WHO LEFT THE DOOR OPEN?

[ronz28]

Well at least Thailand is considering the experience of Japan with its 54 old school Nukes that are now all idle after contaminating their country and the Pacific ocean with radiation. Still, the 54 reactors all have spent fuel rods that are more radioactive now than when new and must be protected for 100k+ years even-though the Nukes are not producing any electricity now.

If they can figure out how to protect those fuel rods forever then they should be able to apply known methods of storing energy produced from solar power during the daytime for use at night. Actually those Nuke operators will eventually just walk away from the spent Nukes and stick the taxpayer with the cleanup costs.

Other technologies for producing energy are under development and Thailand may have several to choose from by 2020 so, they can consider the 5% Nuke power as a placeholder for a new technology.

http://peswiki.com/i...gy_Technologies

Edited June 12, 2012 by ronz28

[Soutpeel]

Still, the 54 reactors all have spent fuel rods that are more radioactive now than when new

If this is case then they are defying the laws of physics.... ....so the half life calculation dont apply then ? you have discovered the secret to perpetual power supply then old chap....