Reasons To Return To Thailand

[sua yai]

I'm British, 47 years old and have been with the same Thai lady for over two years now. We got married last July. She's 33.

My brother's getting married back home later in the year and this is as good a reason as any for me to return for a while - maybe a month or so - at that stage. Naturally, I'd like to take my wife.

I'm pretty conversant with the proceedures and the supporting documents necessary, but I'm a little concerned about the reasons my wife can give to return to Thailand. She dosn't work, has no money in the bank to speak of and dosn't own land. All we've really got are holiday photos here and email correspondence from two years ago when I went back for a few months to show that we've been together for the length of time we state. The marriage certificate, obviously. I can also show that I have lived here for eight years from visas in the current and old passports. We'll have the wedding invite and confirmation that we'll be staying with my parents. I can show a regular income from my London property to sponsor her visit. Will this be sufficient for the ECO? I know that it's not much compared to some others, but if it was our intention to stay in the UK, we'd be applying for a settlement visa.

There are a couple of other issues. About ten years ago, I was sponsoring an old girlfriend for a visit visa. She was turned down twice. I took the matter to my MP who intervened on my behalf, also unsucessfully. Might The Embassy hold this against me now?

Also, I was unfortunately involved in some police trouble here about four years ago. I'd rather not go into details, but I was arrested up country and released on bail for three months. The Embassy were aware of this as I contacted them and had an interview with the Pro Consul on my initial release. No charges were ever brought against me and the case was dropped. However there will be a file on this at The Embassy. Could this have a detrimental effect on my wife's visa application? She was in no way involved in this. We hadn't met at that stage.

Thanks for your assistance anyone on the above points.

[GU22]

I take it that you are legally resident in Thailand and can prove it. In which case you will be her reason to return.

Previous visa sponsorships by you, especially so long ago, should have no bearing on her application (of course, if you were turning up with a different girl every couple of months, that would be a different story!) I would imagine that your problem with the police will not be considered relevant, especially as no charges were brought against you.

See my reply to Geordie in this thread for more details of how to apply.

[sua yai]

Thanks for that. I've looked at the other thread.

By resident here, I assume you mean on a valid visa for Thailand rather than PR. At some point, I'll be applying for a multi entry Non O on the basis of marriage. Whether I do so in, say Penang, or when back in the UK I havn't decided yet.

Will it strengthen the application if I've got it beforehand, rather than bowling up with a tourist visa or 30 day stamp?

[the scouser]

You can demonstrate using the stamps in your passport that you've been in Thailand for 8 years, and this indicates to the visa officer that you are likely to return. However, if you were to have a long term stamp, this would be an even better indication of your intention to come back to Thailand.

I don't think the embassy's records will stretch back 10 years and, even if they do, sponsorship of a previous girlfriend will not count against you after such a length of time.

Your wife will be applying for a family visit visa, so, should it be refused, there is a right of appeal against the decision.

Scouse.

[gregchambers]

I was in a similar position but not married but could prove (identical visa run stamps in our passports every three months, both names on lease on apartment) relationship for just under a year and got the visa for Thai girlfriend 20 years younger (46/26) with only a very short interview two years ago, so I would imagine that you will not have any great problems. She had no house or kids as reason to come back but I did emphasize with accountant's letter that I was non-resident and could not stay in the UK for more than three months in a tax year and was going back to check on rented property. Only asked for 2-3 weeks for visit but she got the usual six month visitors visa. Girl had no work but about 150k in bank book but letter from previous employer in bakery statting that she had worked there for a couple of years just to fill in her background.

YOU DO need to get all the paperwork in order, these are overworked civil servants who want to cover their asses.

BTW I had previously had a run-in with the embassy over another gal a few years prior to this in which I faced down the visa staff and ended up talking to the boss there but staff rotation prob cleared out the previous nasty English bitch and it did not come up as far as I could tell. Probably awkward buggers like me who resulted in farang being banned from the embassy!

Be interesting to see if their one day clearance has made them easier or nastier!

[billd766]

Probably awkward buggers like me who resulted in farang being banned from the embassy!

If it wasn't for ***expletive deleted*** like you, there would be no need for safety glass and other security measures. Then the whole interview process would be a lot less intimidating and applicants whose nerves currently get the better of them would be far more relaxed and so not freeze up and fail. Sponsors probably would be allowed into the visa section too.

***abusive language and flame deleted***

Not exactly a polite or helpful reply to a post.

I was also an awkward bugger on the second application for a fiancee visa and rightly so IMO.

When I went to the British embassy the first time to get my then girlfriend a visitors visa it was turned down for various reasons, some of which were valid but not enough reason to complain about.

The next time that she applied was for a marriage visa and we had all the paperwork that was required.

The ECO was English with about as much Thai language skills as I had at the time.

She was fat and obnoxious and talked down to my fiancee and looked at her as though she was less than the dirt on the street. She then talked down to me as I was casually dressed and asked loudly " and what do you do for a living". When I replied that I was the owner and director of a UK company and earned in excess of £100k per year, and was there a problem, she quickly changed her attitude and became polite and as pleasant as she could be, especially as I explained that I had also been a civil servant at the Home Office.

My fiancee came back for the interview a month later and the visa was granted with no further problem. When we went for a visa extension, a different ECO, male this time granted a 2 year visa with no problem.

Part of the problem with the British Embassy is that most of the British staff have an inflated opinion of themselves and seem to forget that they are only civil servants paid by the taxpayer.

I haven't been to the visa side for some time but on the consular side upstairs I have no problem with either the Thai or on a rare occaision the British staff.

I personally feel that it is a bad policy not allowing the person sponsoring to be present at the interview and that it should be revoked but I have no idea if this is just a local policy here in Thailand or a worldwide policy.

[GU22]

The policy of allowing the applicant only into the interview is explained by Scouse in this thread. What is not standard procedure in British government offices is having thick safety glass between civil servant and member of the public. So why is it in place in the visa section of the Bangkok embassy? Because people like gregchambers think that abuse and possibly violence will get them what they want. Because of people like this the atmosphere of the interview has become intimidating and so, IMHO, many applicants have become nervous and frozen and so hesitated in answering, resulting in what should have been a successful application being refused. But I guess certain people don't care about that as long as they can vent their spleen.

Then there are those who feel that their income level means they should receive special treatment.

If holding and expressing this view is considered to be flaming and leads to this post being deleted too, so be it.

[Rj 81]

The applicant being nervous or intimidated should have no bearing on the result of the application what so ever! They either meet the requirements or they don't. Of coarse that is how it should be but unfortunately there is a long way to go for a fair and just system at the British Embassy in Bangkok IMO.

[GU22]

You are, of course, absolutely correct, Rj 81.

But, unfortunately, if the ECO is faced with an applicant who is hesitant, contradicts him/herself, stumbles over the answers to straightforward questions and simply can't remember simple details; then they are bound to have doubts over how genuine that applicant is.

Many people have posted both here and on other boards how intimidating their partner has found the interview. It would be so much more relaxed if it could be held in an informal atmosphere, without the safety glass.

Unfortunately the embassy have to consider the protection of their staff from the mindless minority whose reaction to not getting what they want is to start issuing threats.

[gregchambers]

Being an awkward bugger did not involve bad language or shouting it involved making a fuss over the girl being treated as if she had just walked in off the street despite my getting her a visa one year previously. The delightful farang lady then said she would not speak to me anymore as she was too busy. I said I was not surprised as she was making work for herself by demanding to interview the girl again. I then asked the Thai lady who was still behind the glass to speak to her supervisor and eventually ended up speaking to another farang guy who was quite reasonable but kept saying that the boss was out. I then said if the lady would not speak to me, he could not help me and his boss would not talk to me I would have to talk to the ambassador. The guy popped into the back office and out and kept saying he could not help, the boss was out. Eventually, as I kept saying no problem if no-one in this section was available I would talk to the ambassador, he said the boss would review the file and do a telephone interview with me in a couple of days time, giving me a date and time to phone in. I didn't actually believe him until he said in a whisper that he was trying to help me here... anyway three days later after a fairly brief conversation with the boss on the phone the second visitors visa was issued.

The point that annoyed me so much is that we had previously visited the UK and come back, causing no problems for anyone and I expected the second visa issue to be no problem, not have to wait a couple of months for another visa interview.

This was five/six years ago and to be fair, I had no problems getting a second visa for the new girl last year so things have definitely improved, althoug they now have another regime in place which may or may not be better and as mentions stops farang from actually entering the visa section!

[billd766]

The policy of allowing the applicant only into the interview is explained by Scouse in this thread. What is not standard procedure in British government offices is having thick safety glass between civil servant and member of the public. So why is it in place in the visa section of the Bangkok embassy? Because people like gregchambers think that abuse and possibly violence will get them what they want. Because of people like this the atmosphere of the interview has become intimidating and so, IMHO, many applicants have become nervous and frozen and so hesitated in answering, resulting in what should have been a successful application being refused. But I guess certain people don't care about that as long as they can vent their spleen.

Then there are those who feel that their income level means they should receive special treatment.

If holding and expressing this view is considered to be flaming and leads to this post being deleted too, so be it.

I merely pointed out to the ECO that I expected the treatment that I would expect from a government official, not the treatment that both my fiancee and I got from the English ECO. The Thai lady present was as helpful as she could be.

I do not expect ANYONE in a position of authority to speak in a demeaning way to anyone else. I do not do it nor would I expect anyone else to do so.

When I explained that I was the owner and managing director of a company her manner towards both of us changed from aggressive to politeness.

We were both clean and reasonably dressed and quiet and polite.

In my personal experience I have only come across two people like that woman at the embassy. All the other people I have met there were much nicer people.

I did not ask for special treatment nor did I expect any, what I did expect was normal treatment that I get everywhere else.

Having read Greg Chambers post I suspect that it may have been the same ECO that we saw as my application was in January 2000.

Most ECOs are not fluent in Thai and most applicants are not fluent in English. This leads to hesitancy and confusion and the feeling that the applicant is intimidated. I had no idea that there were glass screens in the interview rooms. It seems to be the same sort of things you would expect at visiting time in a prison. That would put a lot of people off and cause even more problems.

Edited January 10, 2006 by billd766

[GU22]

It appears i was a bit hasty in condemning gregchambers and biild766, so apologies to them See how easy it is to make a wrong judgement without the full information? Anyone preparing a visa application take note!

However, my central point about the somewhat intimidating atmosphere of the interview booths and the reason for same still stands. These two particular gentlemen behaved in a proper manner, but unfortunately many don't.

[Jersey_UK]

I had no idea that there were glass screens in the interview rooms. It seems to be the same sort of things you would expect at visiting time in a prison. That would put a lot of people off and cause even more problems

.

Ironically it is probably something that would put off the more honest / regular people who have never been in a similar intimidating environment before, whereas for the Missus it is one of the few things I am not worried about, for the reasons already mentioned - a glass screen (rather than bars / wire mesh and a 10 foot gap) may be viewed as a step up for her and could be quite a reassurance for me. "Thai Woman in Embassy roof top protest sticks SV apllication form up Ambassadors Rectum drama". (it's a joke )

Maybe this is something else folk should practice at home before visiting the Embassy? - talking to each other through a closed window TIT.

[sua yai]

All those years ago, when my ex was applying for the visitor's visa, I had the pleasure of meeting the the Entry Clearance Director. The ex had been turned down twice and my MP once at this stage.

I called The Embassy from Samui asking to speak to the ECO. Only when I explained who I was and the fact that the matter was with my MP at the HofC, did the staff decide that the ECO had just returned to the office. She agreed to see me, but explained that it wouldn't necessarily change the decision.

When my turn arrived, I was astounded that there was the reinforced glass in the interview room. After a few minutes, a man appeared and introduced himself as the ECDirector. He sat down with his bundle of papers, put his head in his hand and just looked at me disinterestedly and asked "Now, what can I do for you?"

I realised I had a problem then. He gave me about 30 mins and shot everything I said down in flames. The final straw was when he said that her three children weren't sufficient reason for her to return as they were being cared for by family, rather than the mother. I really had to bite my tongue then and not explode. I realised why there was the glass partition then.

I was more than used to stressful environments through my work, but nothing could have prepared me for that half hour. Heaven knows how a Thai national feels.

I'm certainly not condoning bad behaviour from sponsors - it gets you nowhere,fast, but the whole environment just lends itself to outbursts.

The visa regime that was in place in those days - 10 years ago - has changed and I beleive it's not so intimidating as it was then. I hope so.

Thanks for everyones' input, BTW.

[billd766]

It appears i was a bit hasty in condemning gregchambers and biild766, so apologies to them See how easy it is to make a wrong judgement without the full information? Anyone preparing a visa application take note!

However, my central point about the somewhat intimidating atmosphere of the interview booths and the reason for same still stands. These two particular gentlemen behaved in a proper manner, but unfortunately many don't.

Apologies accepted.

As you said it is easy when not all the information was given and part of it was my fault for not giving the full story.

However it was 6 years ago and now I am getting in my dotage (I'm 61) some of the memery goes but I can still remember stupid little things like my primary school teachers name was Mrs Perret and I left her class about 50 years ago, but some things 10 years ago are a complete blank.