Amnesty For Thaksin Is Root Of The Political Crisis

[Robby nz]

If Thaksin origionally said sorry to the country but I believe I have done no wrong.

Then said to prove his good intentions and love for his country he would use his own money and put the money he spent on trying to destroy the country via the red shirts and other things into something usefull like say;

A couple of trusts one to upgrade hospitals and schools.

The other to provide scholorships for those kids who wanted to become doctors, nurses and teachers.

If he had done something of the sort he would now be very popular and would face little opposition to coming back.

But no revenge and destruction were the way he had to go.

His time to answer to the Thai people will come.

[Moruya]

Publicly rooting Thaksin's amnesty, no political crisis

[weka]

To say that once Thaksin is taken care of, political tensions will dissolve seems to be neglecting the fact that even before Thaksin there has been consistent - but not constant- political crisis in Thailand since the Sarit/Thanom/Praphat regime, through 1973-76 up until 1992. I just don't see how getting rid of Thaksin will save the country, Thailand has been split into two factions for quite some time now, all Thaksin did was use party politics to create a larger support base of anti-elitists, which helped raise the consciousness of grass roots movements among non-academics (granted, that is probably the only things I believe Thaksin really did that were positive, his high levels of corruptions and crimes against humanity are, to me, not forgiveable).

Kowit Wongsurawat's book said it well in "Kan Meuang Kan Pok Khrong Thai: Laai Miti: looking for one cause to any event is like putting blinders on a horse and allowing it to run forward without ever taking into account its surroundings (page 84, third edition). Thaksin is not the one single cause, nor is his amnesty case. From this perspective, I find this article to be quite emotionally charged and without any real solid support for itself. I understand the attempt to find a way out of this mess, and I do applaude the effort, but I think we should not be too quick to say that if the Thaksin issue was eradicated, we'd be able to go to back to normal Thai politics. There is no such thing as normal Thai politics, so there is no returning to 'stability' as some people would like to have it. In periods of 'true democracy' the population runs rampant making every demand they can, which leads in turn to repression of said populace, which leads to an increase in popular antagonism towards those in power, etc.

I agree Thailand politics in mired in repression, non accountability, and shameless corruption, however in this present moment in time there is a strong financial and divisive propulsion coming from one man that has resulted in his caricature taking centre stage of the present conflicts. Remove his money and his perceived injustice and a huge number of people reduce the apparent vehemence of their discontent - not to mention the motivation of the present ruling party MP's to act with their current impunity, safe in the knowledge that if they serve the master now, they'll be well placed when he returns.

Anyway, it's all hypothetical, but I simply cannot see any evidence to suggest that this personality living in Dubai isn't the driving force of this current impasse.

Actually post Taksin would, I believe see an awakening of the masses as to what they've been missing out on in terms of representation from their elected officials - they've now got an inkling of how these "democracies" are supposed to look after all the people. Take away the handouts (or at least the garish promises) and we might well have a better informed electorate.

but that's all academic for now...

Edited June 19, 2012 by weka

[ratcatcher]

The Nation is never too cocky to distract people from the real facts. not Thaksin's amnesty and that of the army killers is the root of the problem. The elite is the root of the problem. The elite does not give a rat's ass about the voter. They set judicial coups in motion they organize a military putsch when it comes in handy and they rob the country blind.

Thaksin is their problem. Thaksin has waken the poor and that is very inconvenient. So inconvenient that all those Chinese from Sondhi to army generals whose parents overstayed their welcome a long time ago and who are still in the service of China even go themselves to the street.

The elite that organize scams like the police entrance exam, that ask prosecutors, police, nurses and judges to pay money for their positions. The elite that refuses to pay 25% of a Foxcon salary as minimum wage, the elite that enslaves people in their factories on their fishing fleets and in brothels.

It is the inconvenient truth of Thailand.

Thaksin is also Chinese

He is also elite.

[indyuk]

Thaksin should step forward and outline his bottom line on an amnesty. His two-faced strategy - secret talks with Democrat MP Suthep Thaugsuban via Chavalit and open attacks via the red shirts - has proved useless.

His two-faced strategy

Thaksin refused to reason with his opponents and ended up triggering his own downfall.

This guy is a megalomaniac, he cannot be reasoned with, he couldn't lie straight in his bed, and he is incapable of putting the interests of Thailand before his own. Surely he must know the level of complete and utter hatred that many powerful Thais have for him.

Seriously there is no peaceful end to this political battle. There will be blood.

What is said here can be said of many Thai people in public service in Thailand. Amendment of the Thai constitution and a reconciliation of the criminal activities of all guilty parties is essential in order to recognize the stigma associated with 91 needless deaths thought to have resulted of the blunders of the prime minister serving at the time.

Thailand need to heal and so do the Thai people. Throwing insults around and attempting to marginalize Thailand's legitimate government for the second time in a decade is the agenda of imbeciles. The fact is Thai demographics show clearly that a government of the people elected by the people is the only acceptable form of government if Thailand is to become a true democracy. Members of the opposition have often voiced the view that Thailand is not ready for democracy and that military rule would be more appropriate. No doubt they have recognized that full democratization of Thailand may force many of their privileged circle to abandon their corrupt ways and racist attitude to the vast majority of the population.

The PAD are PTP are irrelevant if they do not accept democracy and justice for Thailand. It is the people that they (the government and opposition) are supposed to serve that really matter.

As for the majority of the rest of the respondents to this article, Thai and Foreigner alike, I would hope that they could adopt an adult response to such important matters as this.

[SOEYCHANLOY]

Let that devil far away from Thailand! No amnesty for Polpot in cambodia. No?

Sent from my GT-S5830T using Thaivisa Connect App

[bigbamboo]

If he actually loved Thailand and was proud to be Thai, he would have never fled the country, he would have done his short "soft time" jail sentence in comfort, then he could have settled in a nice house in Thailand and lived in luxury for the rest of his days on Thai soil and as part of Thai community. That is what somebody who loves Thailand would have done, they would have stayed here and done their short jail-time and then retired in this - the country they love.

Thaksin chose to spend like four years in Dubai and other countries, instead of just respecting the honourable judgement of Thai supreme court and staying in Thailand. Anybody with a pulse can see that that his actions are not the actions of somebody who loves being in Thailand. He never had any reason to leave the country, he could have stayed here permanently and been a free man in a couple of years, free to live in Thailand. His actions are of somebody who has no real loyalty to Thailand, no real wish to be here unless it is to be here committing crimes with impunity.

If somebody loves a country they will do anything to stay in that country, especially doing something easy like a few years soft time.

If he actually loved Thailand he would make good on his promise to stay out of politics and spend his time on two of his favourite passions, making money and playing golf.

[Semper]

The Nation is never too cocky to distract people from the real facts. not Thaksin's amnesty and that of the army killers is the root of the problem. The elite is the root of the problem. The elite does not give a rat's ass about the voter. They set judicial coups in motion they organize a military putsch when it comes in handy and they rob the country blind.

Thaksin is their problem. Thaksin has waken the poor and that is very inconvenient. So inconvenient that all those Chinese from Sondhi to army generals whose parents overstayed their welcome a long time ago and who are still in the service of China even go themselves to the street.

The elite that organize scams like the police entrance exam, that ask prosecutors, police, nurses and judges to pay money for their positions. The elite that refuses to pay 25% of a Foxcon salary as minimum wage, the elite that enslaves people in their factories on their fishing fleets and in brothels.

It is the inconvenient truth of Thailand.

Thaksin is also Chinese

Yes and so are all influential/rich people in this country.

[hansnl]

Amnesty for Thaksin is root of the political crisis?

And what is the root of the root?

The Coup?

And pray to enlighten me what the root of the coup was?

[Moruya]

Amnesty for Thaksin is root of the political crisis?

And what is the root of the root?

The Coup?

And pray to enlighten me what the root of the coup was?

The coup was rooted by the subsequent election

[JoeLing]

If he actually loved Thailand and was proud to be Thai, he would have never fled the country, he would have done his short "soft time" jail sentence in comfort, then he could have settled in a nice house in Thailand and lived in luxury for the rest of his days on Thai soil and as part of Thai community. That is what somebody who loves Thailand would have done, they would have stayed here and done their short jail-time and then retired in this - the country they love.

Thaksin chose to spend like four years in Dubai and other countries, instead of just respecting the honourable judgement of Thai supreme court and staying in Thailand. Anybody with a pulse can see that that his actions are not the actions of somebody who loves being in Thailand. He never had any reason to leave the country, he could have stayed here permanently and been a free man in a couple of years, free to live in Thailand. His actions are of somebody who has no real loyalty to Thailand, no real wish to be here unless it is to be here committing crimes with impunity.

If somebody loves a country they will do anything to stay in that country, especially doing something easy like a few years soft time.

A real Captain stays on the sinking ship,

whilst rats leave the boat before it sinks

[bangkokheat]

Face, dear boy, Face

If I had a face like his I'd be happy to lose it.

There's a rumour going about that he was so ugly when he was born that the mid wife slapped his mother

anyone that needs to publicly make jokes about a persons looks shows poor character and lack of education, bit like school children

[AleG]

The Nation is never too cocky to distract people from the real facts. not Thaksin's amnesty and that of the army killers is the root of the problem. The elite is the root of the problem. The elite does not give a rat's ass about the voter. They set judicial coups in motion they organize a military putsch when it comes in handy and they rob the country blind.

Thaksin is their problem. Thaksin has waken the poor and that is very inconvenient. So inconvenient that all those Chinese from Sondhi to army generals whose parents overstayed their welcome a long time ago and who are still in the service of China even go themselves to the street.

The elite that organize scams like the police entrance exam, that ask prosecutors, police, nurses and judges to pay money for their positions. The elite that refuses to pay 25% of a Foxcon salary as minimum wage, the elite that enslaves people in their factories on their fishing fleets and in brothels.

It is the inconvenient truth of Thailand.

Thaksin is also Chinese

He even joked, as PM, that he could hold the minister's cabinet meetings in Chinese.

Won't make a dent on TragicKindom's perceptions, though...

[Siripon]

Amnesty for Thaksin is root of the political crisis?

And what is the root of the root?

The Coup?

And pray to enlighten me what the root of the coup was?

All this ground has been covered repeatedly. Thaksin's authoritarian and corrupt style.

It goes back to the ruling of the Constitution Court in 2001 when Thaksin was found not guilty of hiding millions of baht in his servants' names for years by a vote of 8-7. One or two judges actually said their verdicts were reached on political grounds,not legal, ie Thaksin had just won an election so how could they deny him the premiership.

I believe that from then on Thaksin thought he was invincible, and so began his tenure of arrogance and disdain.

[belg]

yeah, the basis of PTP : bring thaksin back and free his billions of baht that he stole...

why not 100% exclude for political life and the case could be closed...

he want to come back ? let him pay the fines and do some jail time (or house arrest)

[lannarebirth]

Amnesty for Thaksin is root of the political crisis?

And what is the root of the root?

The Coup?

And pray to enlighten me what the root of the coup was?

All this ground has been covered repeatedly. Thaksin's authoritarian and corrupt style.

It goes back to the ruling of the Constitution Court in 2001 when Thaksin was found not guilty of hiding millions of baht in his servants' names for years by a vote of 8-7. One or two judges actually said their verdicts were reached on political grounds,not legal, ie Thaksin had just won an election so how could they deny him the premiership.

I believe that from then on Thaksin thought he was invincible, and so began his tenure of arrogance and disdain.

Yeah, there's the Judicial Activism at play and what a sad state of affairs it wrought.

[theblether]

@indyuk

At first glance what appears to be a sensible and reasonable argument emerges........however Sir I must suggest that it is you that is the imbecile, let me explain why.

Democracies are a contract between the people and the elected politicians, and every democracy has a series of checks and balances built in. The ultimate sanction is the ability to vote the politicians out of office every few years, now that's obvious. However on a daily and practical basis the politicians have a duty to work within the law.

Thaksin Shinawatra was found to have broken the law, and at that point, he had breached his contract with the people. Rather than stand and fight to clear his name, he ran, and he has kept on running since.

Democracy is not a shield against the law, however the law is a shield against dictatorships and abuse of power, and hence a powerful tool of democracy.

So please refrain from insulting my intelligence, if I could be bothered I could write you a 50,000 word dissertation on the creation of the Democratic contract, I could take you back well before the Magna Carta, and take you through various historical struggles for the rights of the common people to be upheld, in fact I could even take you back to the ancient Athenians and the root of the word " idioti " but................I can't be bothered.

You see, even the ancient Athenians knew that some idiots couldn't understand the contract of democracy, and 5,000 years later.........you're proving them right.

[bigbamboo]

The Nation is never too cocky to distract people from the real facts. not Thaksin's amnesty and that of the army killers is the root of the problem. The elite is the root of the problem. The elite does not give a rat's ass about the voter. They set judicial coups in motion they organize a military putsch when it comes in handy and they rob the country blind.

Thaksin is their problem. Thaksin has waken the poor and that is very inconvenient. So inconvenient that all those Chinese from Sondhi to army generals whose parents overstayed their welcome a long time ago and who are still in the service of China even go themselves to the street.

The elite that organize scams like the police entrance exam, that ask prosecutors, police, nurses and judges to pay money for their positions. The elite that refuses to pay 25% of a Foxcon salary as minimum wage, the elite that enslaves people in their factories on their fishing fleets and in brothels.

It is the inconvenient truth of Thailand.

The elite do scam.... no question. They even introduce their own elite cards and would you believe it, call it 'The Elite Card'. How elite would someone have to be to do that?

[Neurath]

dam_n, in the picture of the lead story, Oak Shinawatra looks disturbingly like Kim Jong Il. Spooky. Think it's funny? I heard that they both wore/wear elevator shoes. My North Korean friends say it isn't true.

[khaowong1]

If he actually loved Thailand and was proud to be Thai, he would have never fled the country, he would have done his short "soft time" jail sentence in comfort, then he could have settled in a nice house in Thailand and lived in luxury for the rest of his days on Thai soil and as part of Thai community. That is what somebody who loves Thailand would have done, they would have stayed here and done their short jail-time and then retired in this - the country they love.

Thaksin chose to spend like four years in Dubai and other countries, instead of just respecting the honourable judgement of Thai supreme court and staying in Thailand. Anybody with a pulse can see that that his actions are not the actions of somebody who loves being in Thailand. He never had any reason to leave the country, he could have stayed here permanently and been a free man in a couple of years, free to live in Thailand. His actions are of somebody who has no real loyalty to Thailand, no real wish to be here unless it is to be here committing crimes with impunity.

If somebody loves a country they will do anything to stay in that country, especially doing something easy like a few years soft time.

And the fact of the matter is, with his money and connections, he probably wouldn't have ever stepped foot in prison. Like one poster said, it's all about face..

[theblether]

@indyuk

At first glance what appears to be a sensible and reasonable argument emerges........however Sir I must suggest that it is you that is the imbecile, let me explain why.

Democracies are a contract between the people and the elected politicians, and every democracy has a series of checks and balances built in. The ultimate sanction is the ability to vote the politicians out of office every few years, now that's obvious. However on a daily and practical basis the politicians have a duty to work within the law.

Thaksin Shinawatra was found to have broken the law, and at that point, he had breached his contract with the people. Rather than stand and fight to clear his name, he ran, and he has kept on running since.

Democracy is not a shield against the law, however the law is a shield against dictatorships and abuse of power, and hence a powerful tool of democracy.

So please refrain from insulting my intelligence, if I could be bothered I could write you a 50,000 word dissertation on the creation of the Democratic contract, I could take you back well before the Magna Carta, and take you through various historical struggles for the rights of the common people to be upheld, in fact I could even take you back to the ancient Athenians and the root of the word " idioti " but................I can't be bothered.

You see, even the ancient Athenians knew that some idiots couldn't understand the contract of democracy, and 5,000 years later.........you're proving them right.

How's this for perfect timing, two politicians, two countries, two polar opposites, Aung San Suu Kyi visited the BBC today and later took part in a round table debate......here's the story.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18493008

Here's the quotes.......

............she stressed the "importance of the rule of law" in democracy, at a London School of Economics debate........

............Ms Suu Kyi said reform and democracy were only possible when "justice was done and seen to be done".

Ms Suu Kyi knows what sacrifice and putting the greater good first means, TS should be ashamed to be breathing the same air as that outstanding lady.

THAILAND NEEDS A SUU KYI.

[Gonzo the Face]

@indyuk

At first glance what appears to be a sensible and reasonable argument emerges........however Sir I must suggest that it is you that is the imbecile, let me explain why.

Democracies are a contract between the people and the elected politicians, and every democracy has a series of checks and balances built in. The ultimate sanction is the ability to vote the politicians out of office every few years, now that's obvious. However on a daily and practical basis the politicians have a duty to work within the law.

Thaksin Shinawatra was found to have broken the law, and at that point, he had breached his contract with the people. Rather than stand and fight to clear his name, he ran, and he has kept on running since.

Democracy is not a shield against the law, however the law is a shield against dictatorships and abuse of power, and hence a powerful tool of democracy.

So please refrain from insulting my intelligence, if I could be bothered I could write you a 50,000 word dissertation on the creation of the Democratic contract, I could take you back well before the Magna Carta, and take you through various historical struggles for the rights of the common people to be upheld, in fact I could even take you back to the ancient Athenians and the root of the word " idioti " but................I can't be bothered.

You see, even the ancient Athenians knew that some idiots couldn't understand the contract of democracy, and 5,000 years later.........you're proving them right.

How's this for perfect timing, two politicians, two countries, two polar opposites, Aung San Suu Kyi visited the BBC today and later took part in a round table debate......here's the story.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18493008

Here's the quotes.......

............she stressed the "importance of the rule of law" in democracy, at a London School of Economics debate........

............Ms Suu Kyi said reform and democracy were only possible when "justice was done and seen to be done".

Ms Suu Kyi knows what sacrifice and putting the greater good first means, TS should be ashamed to be breathing the same air as that outstanding lady.

THAILAND NEEDS A SUU KYI.

While I seriously have nothing but the highest regard and greatest respect for this wonderful woman, I must wonder why in the above post they wrote " THAILAND NEEDS A SUU KYI " ?

Having just heard a Thai politician state the other day, ...... why do we need a suu kyi, when we have so much ahh kyi.?

[pacharaphet]

The Nation is never too cocky to distract people from the real facts. not Thaksin's amnesty and that of the army killers is the root of the problem. The elite is the root of the problem. The elite does not give a rat's ass about the voter. They set judicial coups in motion they organize a military putsch when it comes in handy and they rob the country blind.

Thaksin is their problem. Thaksin has waken the poor and that is very inconvenient. So inconvenient that all those Chinese from Sondhi to army generals whose parents overstayed their welcome a long time ago and who are still in the service of China even go themselves to the street.

The elite that organize scams like the police entrance exam, that ask prosecutors, police, nurses and judges to pay money for their positions. The elite that refuses to pay 25% of a Foxcon salary as minimum wage, the elite that enslaves people in their factories on their fishing fleets and in brothels.

It is the inconvenient truth of Thailand.

AMEN

[pacharaphet]

The Nation is never too cocky to distract people from the real facts. not Thaksin's amnesty and that of the army killers is the root of the problem. The elite is the root of the problem. The elite does not give a rat's ass about the voter. They set judicial coups in motion they organize a military putsch when it comes in handy and they rob the country blind.

Thaksin is their problem. Thaksin has waken the poor and that is very inconvenient. So inconvenient that all those Chinese from Sondhi to army generals whose parents overstayed their welcome a long time ago and who are still in the service of China even go themselves to the street.

The elite that organize scams like the police entrance exam, that ask prosecutors, police, nurses and judges to pay money for their positions. The elite that refuses to pay 25% of a Foxcon salary as minimum wage, the elite that enslaves people in their factories on their fishing fleets and in brothels.

It is the inconvenient truth of Thailand.

Thaksin is also Chinese

Okay, so that still doesn't counter the above arguement that it's the totality of the elite, not just one man who caused this. Thaksin would fit into that elite perfectly, and he really still does, except he gave the poor a consciousness that had never been seen before now, and this has created the new problems (now it's not just academics who understand that the wool is being pulled over their eyes but rather a large mass of the population).

[Reasonableman]

So now it's "the Chinese" who are to be the scapegoats for Thailand's troubles? A huge Chinese Immigrant/Chinese Government conspiracy? Give me a break, please!! Why this casting around for anyone to blame but the Thais themselves?

Edited June 21, 2012 by Reasonableman

[birdpooguava]

If Thaksin origionally said sorry to the country but I believe I have done no wrong.

Then said to prove his good intentions and love for his country he would use his own money and put the money he spent on trying to destroy the country via the red shirts and other things into something usefull like say;

A couple of trusts one to upgrade hospitals and schools.

The other to provide scholorships for those kids who wanted to become doctors, nurses and teachers.

If he had done something of the sort he would now be very popular and would face little opposition to coming back.

But no revenge and destruction were the way he had to go.

His time to answer to the Thai people will come.

Thaicom Foundation is founded by Lt. Col. Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra. It aims to support and give equal opportunity to underprivileged children in education to learn the important skills that will benefit themselves, their families and the society. Thaicom Foundation is a non-profit organization. It is registered as a legal entity on September 20, 1993 and later as a non profit organization on December 30, 1993. Based on the belief that children well prepared with the necessary and life skills will be able to take care of themselves and contribute more to those around them including the society, the foundation’s goals are to promote life long learning and support charitable events and activities. According to the vision put forth by the founder, Lt.Col.Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra, the Foundation tries to promote equal opportunity in education to all children, especially the underprivileged ones. Once equipped with necessary skills and knowledge, they can help improve and develop the country.

[lovetotravel]

So now it's "the Chinese" who are to be the scapegoats for Thailand's troubles? A huge Chinese Immigrant/Chinese Government conspiracy? Give me a break, please!! Why this casting around for anyone to blame but the Thais themselves?

It's kinda hard not to have this discussed. Thai-Chinese make up about 14% of the population, but control about 80% of the big businesses. Look at the history of PMs. Huge influence. For better or worse. Scroll down a bit. The listing actually kinda shocked me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Thai

[Reasonableman]

If Thaksin origionally said sorry to the country but I believe I have done no wrong.

Then said to prove his good intentions and love for his country he would use his own money and put the money he spent on trying to destroy the country via the red shirts and other things into something usefull like say;

A couple of trusts one to upgrade hospitals and schools.

The other to provide scholorships for those kids who wanted to become doctors, nurses and teachers.

If he had done something of the sort he would now be very popular and would face little opposition to coming back.

But no revenge and destruction were the way he had to go.

His time to answer to the Thai people will come.

Thaicom Foundation is founded by Lt. Col. Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra. It aims to support and give equal opportunity to underprivileged children in education to learn the important skills that will benefit themselves, their families and the society. Thaicom Foundation is a non-profit organization. It is registered as a legal entity on September 20, 1993 and later as a non profit organization on December 30, 1993. Based on the belief that children well prepared with the necessary and life skills will be able to take care of themselves and contribute more to those around them including the society, the foundation’s goals are to promote life long learning and support charitable events and activities. According to the vision put forth by the founder, Lt.Col.Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra, the Foundation tries to promote equal opportunity in education to all children, especially the underprivileged ones. Once equipped with necessary skills and knowledge, they can help improve and develop the country.

Relevance?

[birdpooguava]

If Thaksin origionally said sorry to the country but I believe I have done no wrong.

If he had done something of the sort he would now be very popular and would face little opposition to coming back.

But no revenge and destruction were the way he had to go.

His time to answer to the Thai people will come.

Thaicom Foundation is founded by Lt. Col. Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra. It aims to support and give equal opportunity to underprivileged children in education to learn the important skills that will benefit themselves, their families and the society. Thaicom Foundation is a non-profit organization. It is registered as a legal entity on September 20, 1993 and later as a non profit organization on December 30, 1993. Based on the belief that children well prepared with the necessary and life skills will be able to take care of themselves and contribute more to those around them including the society, the foundation’s goals are to promote life long learning and support charitable events and activities. According to the vision put forth by the founder, Lt.Col.Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra, the Foundation tries to promote equal opportunity in education to all children, especially the underprivileged ones. Once equipped with necessary skills and knowledge, they can help improve and develop the country.

Relevance?

"Then said to prove his good intentions and love for his country he would use his own money and put the money he spent on trying to destroy the country via the red shirts and other things into something usefull like say;

The other to provide scholorships for those kids who wanted to become doctors, nurses and teachers."

You can't see the relevance???

[whybother]

"Then said to prove his good intentions and love for his country he would use his own money and put the money he spent on trying to destroy the country via the red shirts and other things into something usefull like say;

The other to provide scholorships for those kids who wanted to become doctors, nurses and teachers."

You can't see the relevance???

They don't seem to have been doing much since 2008.