Paying The Help .....

[MrRealDeal]

The other recent thread about hard working Thai's got me to thinking about what I see as an inconsistancy in what people say and what they seem to do.]

That is that people seem to think Thai people should get paid more but they are all waiting for the other guy to pony up the money first ! So how much do they really believe what they are saying ? So it got me to wondering why ? Why don't you tip more ? Or pay your maid more ? If Thai people really deserve more why do people get so bent out of shape over some 1000 bht descrepency over some 10,000 bht job if they really think the Thai people sould be getting the 30,000 it would cost elsewhere ?

I understand the princlipe of the thing issue and that people want what they pay for but I'm still wondering why people can on one hand feel sorry for or think they should get more, but still give them less and not think twice about it. It's not something I really think about to much and I would be interested in other peoples stories \ views and here is mine:

When I was unmarried I did tip 15 percent just like in The USA even though my wife told me it was to much and 20 bht was fine. I'm not much for bargirls but since my wife was a virgin she told me having sex with hookers was fine until we were married and I did once or twice and had no problem giving them 3000 bht which is pretty much what I would pay back home. I would tip the dancer girls 500 bht like I would at a titty bar in the usa and pretty much overpaid by Thai standards when It made sense to me. My wife would ask why and I would say because they deserve it and I can afford it.

Now that I am married my wife is entitled to a say in how the family money is spent so I don't spend the same way or buy hookers in the first place of course , but I do slip the maid 1000 bht and tell her not to tell my wife , and more often than not I tip the entire bar staff 1000 bht(each) or when I go to a beerbar to drink will tip the girl who would go home with me 2000 bht and not take her home , I realise it makes me look more stupid than generous to them and probabbly most of you but thats ok with me. And it's only a couple of times a year anyhow , but it's a change of mindset from doing it because they deserve it or I can afford it to more of a charity thing.

I am not trying to sound like either the dumbass of spending or the saint of spending or charity it's just what I did because it seemed to make sence then as well as now , but after thinking about it, I have pretty much sold out my principles not so much to appease my wife but because it simply gives me more money to spend on other things even though we don't need it. So just like I am asking others why they do what they do, I am asking myself , and to be honest I would have to say it's simply being a little greedy , it's not that they don't deserve it , I think the fact that it makes me look more stupid than generous is an excuse more than a reason for me personally , but my wife having a fit is more of a reason than an excuse .... I think

So I wonder about who is going to take the step and be the one to pony up the pay for the people everyone says deserves it, and would that person actually be thought of as even doing the right thing by the same people who say people should get more , or , would they look like a villian for driving up prices for others ? I guess I am wondering if enough people paid maids 10 pounds per hour and people actually got what they say they want in hard working Thai people getting paid more , but then maids would only work for 10 pounds per hour , would people have really gotten what they wanted ? or are they actually being disingenous about saying thats what they want ?

It makes me wonder how serious we can be when we say Thai people should be paid more and then we pay them less of our own chosing. Using what I consider at least for myself more excuse related explanations than substantial resonable ones for doing the opposite of what we think should be done.

I look foward to hearing opinions from all and PLEASE let's play nice and give the mods a break

Edited June 27, 2012 by Crossy
Font set to default

[smokie36]

Labour cost is a supply and demand issue.

Beyond that you can have laws regarding minimum wages but that's about it.

Edited June 27, 2012 by smokie36

[MrRealDeal]

Labour cost is a supply and demand issue.

Beyond that you can have laws regarding minimum wages but that's about it.

When it comes to paying a maid that would fall into the excuse related explanation catagory to me. You don't have to pay min wage you can pay more just not less. Edited June 27, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[smokie36]

Labour cost is a supply and demand issue.

Beyond that you can have laws regarding minimum wages but that's about it.

When it comes to paying a maid that would fall into the excuse related explanation catagory to me. You don't have to pay min wage you can pay more just not less.

When I was living in Samui I paid more. I tip generously too....but only when it is deserved.

If its not then I pay nothing.

[theblether]

Ehm.......I can see a couple of issues on your OP that I would address immediately otherwise when the Isaan and Pattaya troll divisions wake up the mods are going to be exhausted.

Just Sayin'

[MrRealDeal]

Labour cost is a supply and demand issue.

Beyond that you can have laws regarding minimum wages but that's about it.

When it comes to paying a maid that would fall into the excuse related explanation catagory to me. You don't have to pay min wage you can pay more just not less.

When I was living in Samui I paid more. I tip generously too....but only when it is deserved.

If its not then I pay nothing.

Thats cool .... What was it about Samui that was different than now ?

[MrRealDeal]

Yeah I know ..... But it's relevant to the issue ..... which has NOTHING to do with bargirls ..... the issue is LABOR of all kinds and the voulentary payment of it ........ Before I got married I didnt use plumbers , maids ect !

Edited June 27, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[theblether]

Yeah I know ..... But it's relevant to the issue ..... which has NOTHING to do with bargirls ..... the issue is LABOR of all kinds and the voulentary payment of it ........ Before I got married I didnt use plumbers , maids ect !

Okay, just sayin'.......if you get flamed to death don't blame me

[MrRealDeal]

Mr Real Deal carrys a fire extinguisher at all times ...... But your right I should have used better examples to make my point if I didn't want the flames ...... but you can't be Mr Real Deal and only expect it one way ...... that would make me ........... Mr One Way Street Deal !

In case your wondering why ..... it's because I would rather look like a tinfoil hat wearing dumbass carring a fire extinguisher,.......... than a really smart pile of ashes !

Edited June 27, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[brit1984]

In my opinion, Thai workers are underpaid, although as an individual I have little influence on this national issue.

I can't personally pay them all a good wage but I do generally tip generously (including random discretionary payments to the maid). I could pay my maid the same as we paid our cleaner in London (+100k baht extra per month) but, frankly, that would not help the Thai workers in general, just our maid (and frankly she isn't that important to me).

However, I hope one day Thai wages catches up with the Western world (with an equivalent catch up in productivity and service levels) as this would directly benefit many of my extended family, as well as being good for the people of this country in general. The 100k extra for my maid would be a small price to pay for such a wonderful outcome.

[brit1984]

I think a metaphor might help... pigeons are a big problem for the world... if everyone in the world put their lives on hold and went around for a few days beating every pigeon in sight to death with a stick, the pigeon problem could be solved... however, unless the government forces you to beat pigeons to death with a stick it is not worth foregoing a few days pay (and the cost of the stick) just to kill some pigeons because you will not solve the problem...

Edit: but if you happen to find yourself in the situation (as you go about your normal business) where you have a stick and there is a pigeon right in front of you...

Edited June 27, 2012 by brit1984

[hedonist44]

Yeah I know ..... But it's relevant to the issue ..... which has NOTHING to do with bargirls ..... the issue is LABOR of all kinds and the voulentary payment of it ........ Before I got married I didnt use plumbers , maids ect !

Okay, just sayin'.......if you get flamed to death don't blame me

I'd say he has it coming.

[MrRealDeal]

I think a metaphor might help... pigeons are a big problem for the world... if everyone in the world put their lives on hold and went around for a few days beating every pigeon in sight to death with a stick, the pigeon problem could be solved... however, unless the government forces you to beat pigeons to death with a stick it is not worth foregoing a few days pay (and the cost of the stick) just to kill some pigeons because you will not solve the problem...

Thats one way of looking at it , however if I thought they were a big problem I would keep them off my property without needing any gov mandates rather than saying just because no one else wants to help, I am not going to help myself , because it has to start someplace and as people saw that it worked for me they would likely do the same and eventually we would solve the problem without needing the Queen. ...... Who no doubt has better things to do than pass mandates about things people say they want but don't do when they could.

This isn't really about min wage overall because then you get into competition and bisness related issues I didm't want to add ..... it's about paying the help people say should get more but chose not to give more , perhaps because of why you stated ..... "frankly she's not that important". Putting you in my opinion in the disingenuous department as opposed to the reasonable reason for doing the opposite of what you say you would like department.

Not doing what you think should be done because no one else is doing it so it won't solve the entire problem seems like an excuse to me. But from what you posted it seems to me like what you really think is "shes not that important" so you really don't care or want her to get paid more anyhow ...... unless of course the King makes you do it. Maybe it's a cultural difference of people who rely on Government to solve things or people who think people can solve things without government all by themselves ..... admitedly a concept that seems to become more alien to people every day.

[smokie36]

Labour cost is a supply and demand issue.

Beyond that you can have laws regarding minimum wages but that's about it.

When it comes to paying a maid that would fall into the excuse related explanation catagory to me. You don't have to pay min wage you can pay more just not less.

When I was living in Samui I paid more. I tip generously too....but only when it is deserved.

If its not then I pay nothing.

Thats cool .... What was it about Samui that was different than now ?

Far better exchange rate and double the income in those days.

[David48]

The OP asked 'Why don't you tip more'?

Why the pressure to tip at all?

Unfortunately the American habit of 'tipping' is slowly being invasive to Thailand.

If you don't tip do you get lower quality service?

Thais rarely tip ... maybe we can take a clue from them.

The reverse is also true ...

I seen Taxi drivers go past the first waiting in the queue to drive to me ... on the assumption that I will tip and the Thai will not.

Have I tipped ... sure ... I'll round the bill up ... but not 40% tips that I have seen some Americans do.

[MrRealDeal]

The OP asked 'Why don't you tip more'?

Why the pressure to tip at all?

Unfortunately the American habit of 'tipping' is slowly being invasive to Thailand.

If you don't tip do you get lower quality service?

Thais rarely tip ... maybe we can take a clue from them.

The reverse is also true ...

I seen Taxi drivers go past the first waiting in the queue to drive to me ... on the assumption that I will tip and the Thai will not.

Have I tipped ... sure ... I'll round the bill up ... but not 40% tips that I have seen some Americans do.

The topic really relates to people who think Thai's should get paid more and do they follow through from what they say on paper to real life and if not why ...... If you think restaurant workers and cab drivers get paid just fine then I guess you wouldn't tip them very much and I can apprecheate that as well. I wasn't asking why doesnt everyone tip more just for no reason I was asking if you think Thai people should get paid more why don't you tip more ..... I guess I should have asked if they do instead of putting it the way I did to be more polite. I am wondering if the words translate to actions is all, and if not why not.

[dingdang]

i dont understand why they get paid so little, while the local products in the supermarket are rather expensive...

the cheapest local coffee brands are more expensive than in europe...

there is one imported european brand, which is half the price of the local brands...

and no, the local brands dont taste any better - in contrary...

the quality of the locally manufactured food products is inferior (to global average, yoghurt, cheese, sausage etc), the price is often more expensive, and the workers are paid bad...

how comes - no external competition on the market, due to high import taxes or dont they buy other countries things, because thai is better?

im no fish expert, but i would say that the canned fish in the supermarket is the worst stuff i have ever seen...and more expensive than in europe....

what food products does thailand export very well, btw?

Edited June 28, 2012 by dingdang

[robblok]

The OP asked 'Why don't you tip more'?

Why the pressure to tip at all?

Unfortunately the American habit of 'tipping' is slowly being invasive to Thailand.

If you don't tip do you get lower quality service?

Thais rarely tip ... maybe we can take a clue from them.

The reverse is also true ...

I seen Taxi drivers go past the first waiting in the queue to drive to me ... on the assumption that I will tip and the Thai will not.

Have I tipped ... sure ... I'll round the bill up ... but not 40% tips that I have seen some Americans do.

Tipping is indeed an american habit. I also round the bill up not tip exsessive. I have gone out with Thais enough to see how much they tip. Seems like Mr Real deal wants to make Thailand into USA light.

As for the cost of labour, in the West I would not be paid more then a certain level and equal as others why the hell would i now as an employer do it here. If you want to be a good guy go ahead but don't push others in it.

I would gladly pay more for some services if it meant more quality. Unfortunately here in general quality and higher price are often not connected and you just get conned.

[MrRealDeal]

I dont want to turn it into anything ..... I was just asking a question or two

[geriatrickid]

Ehm.......I can see a couple of issues on your OP that I would address immediately otherwise when the Isaan and Pattaya troll divisions wake up the mods are going to be exhausted.

Just Sayin'

Oh, you mean like;

since my wife was a virgin she told me having sex with hookers was fine until we were married and I did once or twice and had no problem giving them 3000 bht which is pretty much what I would pay back home.

Sorry, but that is unbelievable. No normal Thai woman is going to tell her b/f go play with a hooker. I'm not married, but if I make the mistake of chatting up the girls in a bar, I have to answer to someone. I've never even used the services of one of these bargirls (honest) so, I'm going to bow out of this thread now. I am however amazed at how people are willing to pay for very used merchandise. I don't buy bruised fruit or damaged cans at Big C either.

[MrRealDeal]

Ehm.......I can see a couple of issues on your OP that I would address immediately otherwise when the Isaan and Pattaya troll divisions wake up the mods are going to be exhausted.

Just Sayin'

Oh, you mean like;

since my wife was a virgin she told me having sex with hookers was fine until we were married and I did once or twice and had no problem giving them 3000 bht which is pretty much what I would pay back home.

Sorry, but that is unbelievable. No normal Thai woman is going to tell her b/f go play with a hooker. I'm not married, but if I make the mistake of chatting up the girls in a bar, I have to answer to someone. I've never even used the services of one of these bargirls (honest) so, I'm going to bow out of this thread now. I am however amazed at how people are willing to pay for very used merchandise. I don't buy bruised fruit or damaged cans at Big C either.

I found it pretty hard to understand myself but after talking to other people it's not as uncommon as you think , Thai women think it's just fine for a man to have sex before marriage even if they think they should be a virgin .... I'm really quite suprised you are that ignorant to how most Thai girls think. It's actually more the general mode of operation as opposed to being so unusual when it comes to Thai girls who believe in being virgin wives.

[MrRealDeal]

The OP asked 'Why don't you tip more'?

Why the pressure to tip at all?

Unfortunately the American habit of 'tipping' is slowly being invasive to Thailand.

If you don't tip do you get lower quality service?

Thais rarely tip ... maybe we can take a clue from them.

The reverse is also true ...

I seen Taxi drivers go past the first waiting in the queue to drive to me ... on the assumption that I will tip and the Thai will not.

Have I tipped ... sure ... I'll round the bill up ... but not 40% tips that I have seen some Americans do.

Tipping is indeed an american habit. I also round the bill up not tip exsessive. I have gone out with Thais enough to see how much they tip. Seems like Mr Real deal wants to make Thailand into USA light.

As for the cost of labour, in the West I would not be paid more then a certain level and equal as others why the hell would i now as an employer do it here. If you want to be a good guy go ahead but don't push others in it.

I would gladly pay more for some services if it meant more quality. Unfortunately here in general quality and higher price are often not connected and you just get conned.

Well then you must not think Thai people are underpaid so the question doesn't really apply to you, I am not pushing anything except consistancy in ideology and behavior , and you seem to have both in that you think thai people get paid fine and you wouldnt get anything more if you paid them more so you don't ..... I disagree but apprechate the consistacy of belief and actions

[daoyai]

I think it is often implied, (they expect discression, so bar no-no, soapy ok) but expect denial, face and all that.

[pattayadingo]

Where tips are concerned, I was told off for tipping too much and that was by a member of staff at a restaurant I used to frequent. She told me to tip no more than 40 Baht for a full night.

That lady has been a friend for over 5 years now. I have to add that the service was every bit as good with the lower tip.

I had a foreign friend who hates paying for work done. His comments were always the same. Keep the £$%^&*(* down and pay them as little as possible. That is not an attitude i agree with, but I also do not agree with paying too high a price.

If they do a good job on something I'd rather give them a tip on top so they can buy a couple of beers. Then when they come back or I need someone else i ask them and I seem to get good work done.

The local m/c taxi driver who speaks English is one good example. He asks for very little, is helpful, has always done good work and got contacts to do other work at good prices and a good job of work. He knows there are a couple of beers in it and I feel that helps.

So, to me, pay a fair, not a high rate and add a couple of beers on and they are happy.

[DP25]

I do slip the maid 1000 bht and tell her not to tell my wife , and more often than not I tip the entire bar staff 1000 bht(each) or when I go to a beerbar to drink will tip the girl who would go home with me 2000 bht and not take her home

Why are you only tipping the maid 1000 baht when she works hard for you everyday (or however often you have her in), but when you go to a bar you give everyone 1000 or 2000 baht and all they do is walk a beer from the fridge to your table? Your tips for waiters are insane. They get lots of opportunities from drunk foreigners to get tips already. Other people deserve it more.

[pigeonjake]

as for paying,, its allways looked upon that the falang give money to the family, so i have my mother in law working for us on the pig farm, she does a couple of hours in the morning and again at nite, and we pay her 10% of what we take in any month, so can be from 5,000 to 10,000,depending on how many pigs get sold that month, but she really likes doing it to, bless her she even asks if she can take some pig poo for her chillies, my wife likes having her around, and with us having a baby due its a very big help for us, yes i still have to work, im in scotland now for a few weeks working, but i know are farm is in good hands,

take care all, and please be nice to each other, every man sees things differantly, some have more money then others and i think loose the value of money,, i was once told that if you give your family to much money, so that they can get car house ect, witch i havnt by the way,,, it will course bad feelings in the village towards them, so be careful what your doing giving to much, i was operations manager once in a factory in bangcock and the boys there were very good tradesmen fabricator welders very good at what they did on par with england, but the highest paid was 21,000 per month,

just my opinion ok, jake

[kerryk]

Ehm.......I can see a couple of issues on your OP that I would address immediately otherwise when the Isaan and Pattaya troll divisions wake up the mods are going to be exhausted.

Just Sayin'

Oh, you mean like;

since my wife was a virgin she told me having sex with hookers was fine until we were married and I did once or twice and had no problem giving them 3000 bht which is pretty much what I would pay back home.

Sorry, but that is unbelievable. No normal Thai woman is going to tell her b/f go play with a hooker. I'm not married, but if I make the mistake of chatting up the girls in a bar, I have to answer to someone. I've never even used the services of one of these bargirls (honest) so, I'm going to bow out of this thread now. I am however amazed at how people are willing to pay for very used merchandise. I don't buy bruised fruit or damaged cans at Big C either.

Holy moly geri normally I agree with you but you really opened up a can of smelly sardines this time.

Maybe there is a chance we can still agree. How about 20% of Thai women are not normal? That would fix part of the problem. Because 20% of the married men I know have very flexible Thai wives.

I gotta tell you I was a long time in Thailand before I realized it was not the normal culture to sleep many people in one bed. Of course that was ancient history.

2005 I do recall some jealousy in a relationship but a little spreading around of the wealth took care of that.

I got a letter from a friend asking for some property advice here and as an aside he described his previous two weeks in Surin. I'll message it to you if you want. I really don't feel right posting it. But his wife made sure his needs were more than met while he was here. She thinks she is too old for him.

I don't pay for damaged fruit either. But I have found that that in endeavors that require physical activity that practice makes perfect. For example football or shooting pool. Muscle tone and coordination I find to be useful in many areas of life. Sleep is the only thing I can think of right off hand that requires no training. I am sure there are others.

[pipo1000]

In my opinion, Thai workers are underpaid, although as an individual I have little influence on this national issue.

I can't personally pay them all a good wage but I do generally tip generously (including random discretionary payments to the maid).

And that is why you pay your maid less then the mininmum wage by law,as you posted in that other topic.

I wonder what she has to do to receive discretionary payments.

[Banzai99]

Yeah I know ..... But it's relevant to the issue ..... which has NOTHING to do with bargirls ..... the issue is LABOR of all kinds and the voulentary payment of it ........ Before I got married I didnt use plumbers , maids ect !

Okay, just sayin'.......if you get flamed to death don't blame me

I'd say he has it coming.

I think that was the whole point of the post.

[MrRealDeal]

i dont understand why they get paid so little, while the local products in the supermarket are rather expensive...

the cheapest local coffee brands are more expensive than in europe...

there is one imported european brand, which is half the price of the local brands...

and no, the local brands dont taste any better - in contrary...

the quality of the locally manufactured food products is inferior (to global average, yoghurt, cheese, sausage etc), the price is often more expensive, and the workers are paid bad...

how comes - no external competition on the market, due to high import taxes or dont they buy other countries things, because thai is better?

im no fish expert, but i would say that the canned fish in the supermarket is the worst stuff i have ever seen...and more expensive than in europe....

what food products does thailand export very well, btw?

A TON of shrimp ...... it's mostly used by institutions or whats called resturaunt quality to the USA