Thailand Remains Major Centre For Human Trafficking

[kerryk]

I wasn't going to comment because I doubt anyone posting in this thread would really want to hear the truth. If you want the truth ask a woman who was trafficked or better yet ask 50,000 women who have been trafficked.

"Instead of respect for our basic human rights under the United Nations Human Rights Council we are

given “protection” under the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. We are forced to live with

the modern lie that border controls and anti-trafficking policies are for our protection. None of us

believe that lie or want that kind of protection. We have been spied on, arrested, cut off from our

families, had our savings confiscated, interrogated, imprisoned and placed into the hands of the men

with guns, in order for them to send us home... all in the name of “protection against trafficking”.

It’s rubbing salt into the wound that this is called helping us. We are grateful for those who are

genuinely concerned with our welfare ... but we ask you to listen to us and think in new ways."

The above quote is from Ms Chantawipa Apisuk the leading authority on trafficking in Thailand.

www.chezstella.org/stella/Hit-and-Run-RATSW.pdf

Surely western governments must know the identity of the major sponsors/financiers of human trafficking in Thailand. Have they put in place travel bans, frozen their overseas assets and so? At a minimum it would be a step in the right direction

If you read the linked article you would know the answer to your question.

OK I have read the report and unless I have overlooked it no action has been taken against specific individuals by Western governments. However, the report is primarily focused on the sex worker industry in Thailand and is arguing the case for decriminalisation of prostitution as the best way forward to minimise exploitation; this seems fair enough to me.

Some interesting content as follows:

Given the anti-trafficking movement’s primary focus is on the sex industry and the size of our migrant workforce we found that the above data fully supports our anecdotal evidence from sex workers and employers, that trafficking into the sex industry in Thailand is the exception rather than the rule.

No witness protection provided even though legislated.

“I did so many jobs before sex work. I was exploited in every one of them. Sex work gives me the most independence, freedom and the best conditions. It’s the same for all my friends. We are grateful and thank you for your concern, but please don’t rescue”

This last quote underlines my Thai wife's comment that Westerners visiting Thailand are fools if they believe bar girls sob stories

Your wife is correct. But she is Thai and a woman and won't be believed. Neither will the 50,000 women that are represented by the Empower group. Too much money involved to much corruption. But this time it is corruption of the people who are doing the rescuing.

[Baerboxer]

I have marked JurgenG's post (#8) as an I Like because he is addressing the other side of the coin. Because a bar or a go-go is "Falang" managed, doesn't mean it is run properly (if operating in the sex trade can be deemed as proper in the first place).

If the girl (or boy or in-betwwen for that matter) is wearing a number, they are fair game as far as the customer is concerned. We don't know the girl's/boy's story, don't know if they were coerced into the situation they find themselves in or if it is a voluntary decision.

The above statement doesn't mean I condone these places, what I am trying to say is think before you comment on this subject as you may be unknowingly contributing to it.

EDIT: It is a far more complicated issue than it first appears, and an even harder one to stop!

Your totally right, ( I've ran out of likes by the way ), it is highly complicated, but at the root of it is a cohort of people who are at the extreme end of exploitation. This is not a Thai only issue, we have the same slave like conditions being perpetrated on people in the UK, seriously shameful.

Completely agree. I've worked in India, China, Middle East, Malaysia, Philippines, Rumania and most West European countries - and it's certainly not a Thai only issue. There seems to be almost a tacit acceptance that some people will be exploited. It really is a sad comment on humanity that in the third milenium we are still allowing this to happen to people.

[oldthaihand99]

There are a lot of women and men willing to provide sexual services to get themselves a lifestyle they cant achieve in other ways So if the starting point is to make prostitution legal for people over the age of 18 with the ability to advertise their services etc then much of the need can be met.

It seems the Thai prostitution industry has done fine & flourished without legality.

As for advertising, according to the following opinion it's already happening:

"...the culture of Thailand, especially with regard to sex, is extremely different from the rest of Asia. In Asia, you do not have school kids getting into prostitution, except Thailand. In Asia, you do not have college age girls posting on websites advertising themselves as sugar-babies, except Thailand. Asia, except Thailand, is remarkably conservative and any girl caught doing any of those things is severely ostracized and rejected, even by their own families. If they were to do it, it would have to be driven completely underground and very deeply underground at that."

Edited June 30, 2012 by oldthaihand99

[canuckamuck]

Outrage at the injustice faced by strangers at home and abroad is a politically correct sensibility of western cultures. It is imitated in other realms but never duplicated. Not a lot of selfless activism is spawned in developing nations.

When I say politically correct, I am saying it is an expectation that good people feel this way, so people act like they do, even when they don't

[kerryk]

In Siam i'm aware that mistresses and mia noi are common, which is much the same concept, and i suppose guys usually find out about them via the prostitution industry, word of mouth, etc, rather than internet or newspaper ads. But, as always, i could be wrong.

Mia noi and mistresses in Thailand are NOTHING like the 'same concept' as trafficked sex slaves.

Sent from my Nexus S using Thaivisa Connect App

Totally agree with that. Trafficked sex slaves get arrested and locked up for a couple of years and taught how to sew by charitable organizations and mia nois and mistresses just go shopping.

[oldthaihand99]

In Siam i'm aware that mistresses and mia noi are common, which is much the same concept, and i suppose guys usually find out about them via the prostitution industry, word of mouth, etc, rather than internet or newspaper ads. But, as always, i could be wrong.

Mia noi and mistresses in Thailand are NOTHING like the 'same concept' as trafficked sex slaves.

Sent from my Nexus S using Thaivisa Connect App

Totally agree with that. Trafficked sex slaves get arrested and locked up for a couple of years and taught how to sew by charitable organizations and mia nois and mistresses just go shopping.

Actually my comparison was to "sugar babes" not "trafficked sex slaves". See my above post that speaks of "sugar babes".

Edited June 30, 2012 by oldthaihand99

[metisdead]

Let's stick to the topic and not comment on other posters. A number of posts have been removed.

[samsiam]

In Siam i'm aware that mistresses and mia noi are common, which is much the same concept, and i suppose guys usually find out about them via the prostitution industry, word of mouth, etc, rather than internet or newspaper ads. But, as always, i could be wrong.

Mia noi and mistresses in Thailand are NOTHING like the 'same concept' as trafficked sex slaves.

Sent from my Nexus S using Thaivisa Connect App

Totally agree with that. Trafficked sex slaves get arrested and locked up for a couple of years and taught how to sew by charitable organizations and mia nois and mistresses just go shopping.

Where does it state that Kerry that as a matter of normal procedure all trafficked sex slaves are locked up for years.

Please, not the delusional Thai report or expert.

[kerryk]

In Siam i'm aware that mistresses and mia noi are common, which is much the same concept, and i suppose guys usually find out about them via the prostitution industry, word of mouth, etc, rather than internet or newspaper ads. But, as always, i could be wrong.

Mia noi and mistresses in Thailand are NOTHING like the 'same concept' as trafficked sex slaves.

Sent from my Nexus S using Thaivisa Connect App

Totally agree with that. Trafficked sex slaves get arrested and locked up for a couple of years and taught how to sew by charitable organizations and mia nois and mistresses just go shopping.

Where does it state that Kerry that as a matter of normal procedure all trafficked sex slaves are locked up for years.

Please, not the delusional Thai report or expert.

Look it up. Find out what happens to women who are rescued and where they are kept and under what kind of conditions. Best to look for articles written by women who have been in the situation.

Why ask me? I only go on the net and google The impact of anti trafficking policy in Thailand.

I found the below written by, Jackie Pollock has lived and worked in Thailand for the past twenty years. She was a founding member of the Migrant Assistance Program (MAP), a Thai NGO working on labour rights, women’s rights and health issues among Burmese migrant workers in Chiang Mai, Mae Sot and Phang Nga.

Collateral Damage: The Impact of Anti-Trafficking Measures – GAATW.

“An American NGO, the International Justice Mission, sent an undercover worker into the Barn Rom Yen brothel in Chiang Mai.

The young women were kept at the government rehabilitation home in Bangkok for over a year, where, in phone conversations with NGOs in Chiang Mai, they explained they were feeling isolated and lonely. They were given lessons in sewing, flower arrangement and massage techniques. They could not leave the rehabilitation home as they were not issued with any documents. The authorities made contact with their families in Burma and they were eventually repatriated.

Many of the women were regular participants of activities run by a local NGO, called EMPOWER, and complained bitterly about being ‘rescued’ and then held in a government rehabilitation home against their will.

While Thailand and the immediate region have initiated many interventions, policies, laws and MoUs regarding

trafficking, there has been no equivalent progress in protecting the rights of trafficked persons.

The issue of where responsibility lies in cases of trafficking has yet to be addressed in Thailand,”

[ttelise]

Mia noi and mistresses in Thailand are NOTHING like the 'same concept' as trafficked sex slaves.

Sent from my Nexus S using Thaivisa Connect App

Totally agree with that. Trafficked sex slaves get arrested and locked up for a couple of years and taught how to sew by charitable organizations and mia nois and mistresses just go shopping.

Where does it state that Kerry that as a matter of normal procedure all trafficked sex slaves are locked up for years.

Please, not the delusional Thai report or expert.

Look it up. Find out what happens to women who are rescued and where they are kept and under what kind of conditions. Best to look for articles written by women who have been in the situation.

Why ask me? I only go on the net and google The impact of anti trafficking policy in Thailand.

I found the below written by, Jackie Pollock has lived and worked in Thailand for the past twenty years. She was a founding member of the Migrant Assistance Program (MAP), a Thai NGO working on labour rights, women’s rights and health issues among Burmese migrant workers in Chiang Mai, Mae Sot and Phang Nga.

Collateral Damage: The Impact of Anti-Trafficking Measures – GAATW.

“An American NGO, the International Justice Mission, sent an undercover worker into the Barn Rom Yen brothel in Chiang Mai.

The young women were kept at the government rehabilitation home in Bangkok for over a year, where, in phone conversations with NGOs in Chiang Mai, they explained they were feeling isolated and lonely. They were given lessons in sewing, flower arrangement and massage techniques. They could not leave the rehabilitation home as they were not issued with any documents. The authorities made contact with their families in Burma and they were eventually repatriated.

Many of the women were regular participants of activities run by a local NGO, called EMPOWER, and complained bitterly about being ‘rescued’ and then held in a government rehabilitation home against their will.

While Thailand and the immediate region have initiated many interventions, policies, laws and MoUs regarding

trafficking, there has been no equivalent progress in protecting the rights of trafficked persons.

The issue of where responsibility lies in cases of trafficking has yet to be addressed in Thailand,”

So your saying Thailand does little if anything to protect or rehabilitate trafficked women rescued in Thailand. Be of no surprise since that benefits Thailand little to rescue a sex slave traficvjed from Russia. Still does not make it right.

Zero tolerance then is inky way to protectninnocent children and young women compelled to enter this business. Whack the johnsons off all the desperate old dudes who cannot get laid without paying for it and execute the perverts and pedophiles publically. That would curb demand and result in profit so little for traffickers they would find some other crime to make money in Thailand.

[kerryk]

Totally agree with that. Trafficked sex slaves get arrested and locked up for a couple of years and taught how to sew by charitable organizations and mia nois and mistresses just go shopping.

Where does it state that Kerry that as a matter of normal procedure all trafficked sex slaves are locked up for years.

Please, not the delusional Thai report or expert.

Look it up. Find out what happens to women who are rescued and where they are kept and under what kind of conditions. Best to look for articles written by women who have been in the situation.

Why ask me? I only go on the net and google The impact of anti trafficking policy in Thailand.

I found the below written by, Jackie Pollock has lived and worked in Thailand for the past twenty years. She was a founding member of the Migrant Assistance Program (MAP), a Thai NGO working on labour rights, women's rights and health issues among Burmese migrant workers in Chiang Mai, Mae Sot and Phang Nga.

Collateral Damage: The Impact of Anti-Trafficking Measures – GAATW.

"An American NGO, the International Justice Mission, sent an undercover worker into the Barn Rom Yen brothel in Chiang Mai.

The young women were kept at the government rehabilitation home in Bangkok for over a year, where, in phone conversations with NGOs in Chiang Mai, they explained they were feeling isolated and lonely. They were given lessons in sewing, flower arrangement and massage techniques. They could not leave the rehabilitation home as they were not issued with any documents. The authorities made contact with their families in Burma and they were eventually repatriated.

Many of the women were regular participants of activities run by a local NGO, called EMPOWER, and complained bitterly about being 'rescued' and then held in a government rehabilitation home against their will.

While Thailand and the immediate region have initiated many interventions, policies, laws and MoUs regarding

trafficking, there has been no equivalent progress in protecting the rights of trafficked persons.

The issue of where responsibility lies in cases of trafficking has yet to be addressed in Thailand,"

So your saying Thailand does little if anything to protect or rehabilitate trafficked women rescued in Thailand. Be of no surprise since that benefits Thailand little to rescue a sex slave traficvjed from Russia. Still does not make it right.

Zero tolerance then is inky way to protectninnocent children and young women compelled to enter this business. Whack the johnsons off all the desperate old dudes who cannot get laid without paying for it and execute the perverts and pedophiles publically. That would curb demand and result in profit so little for traffickers they would find some other crime to make money in Thailand.

Since the trafficked women are used by 99% Thai men that might not get much support in Thailand.

I am sure there are old Thai perverts out there but one wonders if your idea would fly here?

BTW the women are not trafficked from Russia. You might want to actually read something about sex trafficking instead of relying on your own experience which sounds very limited. Try google the result of anti sex trafficking in Thailand.

[ttelise]

I was kind if using Russian women as a hypothetical or example and not really trying to imply anything.

Uhm, there are Russian prostitutes trafficked from Russia in Thailand. My wife is Russian and her ex is Russian mafia which is really not uncommon, but anyway. . . He has since moved from importing cars to trafficking women. He is now in Thailand and still calls us every few months wanting us to send new and untitled German cars over to his Russian buddies.

But anyone, point was why doesn't Thailand do anything to protect these girls when rescued. Perhaps because they are greedy little apathetic . . . As it serves to line no one's pocket. So they should either stop complaining or do something about it already.

Protecting human rights is perhaps the most important ascent of any culture, or at least should be

Edited June 30, 2012 by ttelise

[kerryk]

I think you probably mean Ukraine or Uzbekistan. I never really thought about it. What do you think the ratio is 50,000 Burmese to 3 Ukraine people trafficked to Thailand. Getting trafficked by air with a valid passport. I wonder how that works. Having a valid passport would seem to eliminate the traffickers hold over the other person.

Edited July 1, 2012 by kerryk

[simon43]

There is a huge difference between the plight of persons who are trafficked for sex, and those Thai ladies that you see sitting with glum expressions in the beer-bars of Pattaya and Patong. The glum expression is due to boredom and lack of paying customers...

Years ago when I started working as a TPV, I got to know many of the ladies who worked the Patong bars, (I speak good Thai and Lao). I never met a single one of them who said that they were forced into their work or trafficked across international or national borders. Almost all were of legal age, or were a few months below legal age.

I am sure many of them felt morally obliged to work in the bars due to family pressures etc. The vast majority of these ladies were Thai, with a few, illegal (but not trafficked) Lao ladies as well.

Surprisingly, they also told me that having sex with a customer was not a done-deal. Most of their customers simply wanted to get drunk, have a party or - for the Asian guys, sing terrible karaoke. The risk of liver disease from excessive alcohol consumption was far higher than the risk of STDs, and many ladies bitterly complained about the lack of paying customers who wanted to have sex with them (==> more money for the lady).

My experiences all those years ago got me interested in studying human trafficking (both for sex and labour purposes), and since that date, I've worked (and continue to work) for various organisations that are active in countering human trafficking.

Sex trafficking exists to meet a customer demand. Thailand is both a source, transit and destination country for trafficked persons. Most of my activities has been involved where Thailand is the destination for trafficked persons, such as Cambodia, Lao PDR and Myanmar.

You will not see trafficked ladies or kids in the 'farang' bars. The vast majority of customers for illegal and forced prostitution are Thai men. The vast majority of foreign (non-Thai) customers for illegal and forced prostitution are Asian men. A white, western face in this environment sticks out like a sore thumb and is assumed either to be an NGO plant, or is considered to be a high risk customer, (in that they will attract the attention of the police, media etc).

White faces engaged in illegal or underage prostitution sells newspaper and create donor funding - Asian faces do not.... Ask some NGOs why they target white male sex tourists and never Asian males...

There are many, well-meaning NGOs, (and some not so well-meaning), who work to 'rescue' trafficked girls/boys and women, and to return them to their families in the neighbouring countries. Many of these high profile NGOs do not realise the subsequent 'harm', in that these rescued persons are returned to the very people (their parents, family or village friends), who trafficked them in the first place!

A high-profile rescue is relatively easy to implement, (based on intel etc). The aftermath is a far more difficult issue to address.

If a trafficked person is located in Thailand, the typical action is simply to repatriate them to their home country, (perhaps after a short time in the local jail). After all, the girl has been rescued from her captors and it is not Thailand's problem to care for foreign prostitutes etc. So back across the border she goes, and the trafficking cycle is repeated again.

Even if there is some form of after-care center, in the case of underage persons, who has the legal right to remove that child from her parents or guardians? Will a Thai court decide that a Burmese girl who has been illegally trafficked into the country, is allowed to stay in Thailand and not under the guardianship of her parents?? Human trafficking and how to deal with the aftermath of 'rescues' is a very complex issue.

What can we 'westerners' do about the problem of Human Trafficking? Actually - and sorry to say - we can do very little. Action has to come from the source, transit and destination countries. Western governments can put pressure on these countries, and we as individuals can put pressure on our elected representatives.

Human Trafficking will never be eradicated, but it can be reduced by education of poor communities, so that these kids/teenagers have better opportunities to gain employment where they are able to support themselves and/or their families. It is because these kids currently have little employment prospects, so they or their parents look to prostitution as a means of paying the bills. So education is one means to break out of this predicament.

Therefore, if you really want to help, I suggest you volunteer to teach underpriviledged kids and young persons useful skills, such as spoken English, computer studies etc. It is a long-term strategy and will take decades/generations to achieve the goal. Education is the key.

Finally, if you do want to help 'on the ground', please do your due diligence first and carefully check out the credentials of the NGO or charitable organisation that you're going to work with. Many (yes MANY!) of these organisations have been established by unqualified persons whose actions are led by their hearts, not by cool-headed, common sense. Some organisations use their work as a means to fund their own lifestyles, (==> think nice Toyota Landcruisers). Some organisations adopt a 'all western men are pedophiles' attitude, and target innocent men, such as those who have Asian kids. Some NGOs offer aid only if the assisted reject their own religion and adopt the religion of the NGO.....

As I said, Human Trafficking is a hugely complex subject - gut reactions do not really help

Simon

Edited July 1, 2012 by simon43

[Jessi]

There is a huge difference between the plight of persons who are trafficked for sex, and those Thai ladies that you see sitting with glum expressions in the beer-bars of Pattaya and Patong. The glum expression is due to boredom and lack of paying customers...

Years ago when I started working as a TPV, I got to know many of the ladies who worked the Patong bars, (I speak good Thai and Lao). I never met a single one of them who said that they were forced into their work or trafficked across international or national borders. Almost all were of legal age, or were a few months below legal age.

I am sure many of them felt morally obliged to work in the bars due to family pressures etc. The vast majority of these ladies were Thai, with a few, illegal (but not trafficked) Lao ladies as well.

Surprisingly, they also told me that having sex with a customer was not a done-deal. Most of their customers simply wanted to get drunk, have a party or - for the Asian guys, sing terrible karaoke. The risk of liver disease from excessive alcohol consumption was far higher than the risk of STDs, and many ladies bitterly complained about the lack of paying customers who wanted to have sex with them (==> more money for the lady).

My experiences all those years ago got me interested in studying human trafficking (both for sex and labour purposes), and since that date, I've worked (and continue to work) for various organisations that are active in countering human trafficking.

Sex trafficking exists to meet a customer demand. Thailand is both a source, transit and destination country for trafficked persons. Most of my activities has been involved where Thailand is the destination for trafficked persons, such as Cambodia, Lao PDR and Myanmar.

You will not see trafficked ladies or kids in the 'farang' bars. The vast majority of customers for illegal and forced prostitution are Thai men. The vast majority of foreign (non-Thai) customers for illegal and forced prostitution are Asian men. A white, western face in this environment sticks out like a sore thumb and is assumed either to be an NGO plant, or is considered to be a high risk customer, (in that they will attract the attention of the police, media etc).

White faces engaged in illegal or underage prostitution sells newspaper and create donor funding - Asian faces do not.... Ask some NGOs why they target white male sex tourists and never Asian males...

There are many, well-meaning NGOs, (and some not so well-meaning), who work to 'rescue' trafficked girls/boys and women, and to return them to their families in the neighbouring countries. Many of these high profile NGOs do not realise the subsequent 'harm', in that these rescued persons are returned to the very people (their parents, family or village friends), who trafficked them in the first place!

A high-profile rescue is relatively easy to implement, (based on intel etc). The aftermath is a far more difficult issue to address.

If a trafficked person is located in Thailand, the typical action is simply to repatriate them to their home country, (perhaps after a short time in the local jail). After all, the girl has been rescued from her captors and it is not Thailand's problem to care for foreign prostitutes etc. So back across the border she goes, and the trafficking cycle is repeated again.

Even if there is some form of after-care center, in the case of underage persons, who has the legal right to remove that child from her parents or guardians? Will a Thai court decide that a Burmese girl who has been illegally trafficked into the country, is allowed to stay in Thailand and not under the guardianship of her parents?? Human trafficking and how to deal with the aftermath of 'rescues' is a very complex issue.

What can we 'westerners' do about the problem of Human Trafficking? Actually - and sorry to say - we can do very little. Action has to come from the source, transit and destination countries. Western governments can put pressure on these countries, and we as individuals can put pressure on our elected representatives.

Human Trafficking will never be eradicated, but it can be reduced by education of poor communities, so that these kids/teenagers have better opportunities to gain employment where they are able to support themselves and/or their families. It is because these kids currently have little employment prospects, so they or their parents look to prostitution as a means of paying the bills. So education is one means to break out of this predicament.

Therefore, if you really want to help, I suggest you volunteer to teach underpriviledged kids and young persons useful skills, such as spoken English, computer studies etc. It is a long-term strategy and will take decades/generations to achieve the goal. Education is the key.

Finally, if you do want to help 'on the ground', please do your due diligence first and carefully check out the credentials of the NGO or charitable organisation that you're going to work with. Many (yes MANY!) of these organisations have been established by unqualified persons whose actions are led by their hearts, not by cool-headed, common sense. Some organisations use their work as a means to fund their own lifestyles, (==> think nice Toyota Landcruisers). Some organisations adopt a 'all western men are pedophiles' attitude, and target innocent men, such as those who have Asian kids. Some NGOs offer aid only if the assisted reject their own religion and adopt the religion of the NGO.....

As I said, Human Trafficking is a hugely complex subject - gut reactions do not really help

Simon

+1 This is spot on Simon. I have met you a few years ago & you do know what you are talking about, you have been there & got the T Shirt. Great post.

[ttelise]

Where does it state that Kerry that as a matter of normal procedure all trafficked sex slaves are locked up for years.

Please, not the delusional Thai report or expert.

Look it up. Find out what happens to women who are rescued and where they are kept and under what kind of conditions. Best to look for articles written by women who have been in the situation.

Why ask me? I only go on the net and google The impact of anti trafficking policy in Thailand.

I found the below written by, Jackie Pollock has lived and worked in Thailand for the past twenty years. She was a founding member of the Migrant Assistance Program (MAP), a Thai NGO working on labour rights, women's rights and health issues among Burmese migrant workers in Chiang Mai, Mae Sot and Phang Nga.

Collateral Damage: The Impact of Anti-Trafficking Measures – GAATW.

"An American NGO, the International Justice Mission, sent an undercover worker into the Barn Rom Yen brothel in Chiang Mai.

The young women were kept at the government rehabilitation home in Bangkok for over a year, where, in phone conversations with NGOs in Chiang Mai, they explained they were feeling isolated and lonely. They were given lessons in sewing, flower arrangement and massage techniques. They could not leave the rehabilitation home as they were not issued with any documents. The authorities made contact with their families in Burma and they were eventually repatriated.

Many of the women were regular participants of activities run by a local NGO, called EMPOWER, and complained bitterly about being 'rescued' and then held in a government rehabilitation home against their will.

While Thailand and the immediate region have initiated many interventions, policies, laws and MoUs regarding

trafficking, there has been no equivalent progress in protecting the rights of trafficked persons.

The issue of where responsibility lies in cases of trafficking has yet to be addressed in Thailand,"

So your saying Thailand does little if anything to protect or rehabilitate trafficked women rescued in Thailand. Be of no surprise since that benefits Thailand little to rescue a sex slave traficvjed from Russia. Still does not make it right.

Zero tolerance then is inky way to protectninnocent children and young women compelled to enter this business. Whack the johnsons off all the desperate old dudes who cannot get laid without paying for it and execute the perverts and pedophiles publically. That would curb demand and result in profit so little for traffickers they would find some other crime to make money in Thailand.

Since the trafficked women are used by 99% Thai men that might not get much support in Thailand.

I am sure there are old Thai perverts out there but one wonders if your idea would fly here?

BTW the women are not trafficked from Russia. You might want to actually read something about sex trafficking instead of relying on your own experience which sounds very limited. Try google the result of anti sex trafficking in Thailand.

Women are not trafficked from Russia. Really?

I didn't read this entire article, but it seems to be on point. Russian women are trafficked and turned into sex slaves. From what my wife has told me, i would say Russian women are vulnerable because drunk Russian bastards beat the shit out of them and Russian economy is pretty bleak.

http://www1.american.edu/ted/traffic.htm

The article title is "Trafficking in Russian Women" and is a case study from a pretty reputable sources. Haha, more reputable than thr Kerryk theory of how to pick up women.

Edited July 1, 2012 by ttelise

[zydeco]

"it still appeared in Tier 2 of the Watch List of the US State Department's report"

This is completely incorrect. There are 4 levels/tiers - Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 2 Watch List, Tier 3. Thailand is on Tier 2 Watch List for the 3rd consecutive year and would have been dropped to Tier 3 if they hadn't submitted a plan to do something to improve human trafficking in Thailand. But, like most plans in Thailand, it will not be acted upon, and Thailand should drop to Tier 3 next year - with major sanctions imposed.

In light of the Nasa decision, Thailand just might find itself dropping to Tier 3 even sooner than next year.

[Reasonableman]

"it still appeared in Tier 2 of the Watch List of the US State Department's report"

This is completely incorrect. There are 4 levels/tiers - Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 2 Watch List, Tier 3. Thailand is on Tier 2 Watch List for the 3rd consecutive year and would have been dropped to Tier 3 if they hadn't submitted a plan to do something to improve human trafficking in Thailand. But, like most plans in Thailand, it will not be acted upon, and Thailand should drop to Tier 3 next year - with major sanctions imposed.

In light of the Nasa decision, Thailand just might find itself dropping to Tier 3 even sooner than next year.

Tier 3 = sanctions?

[simple1]

Penalties for Tier 3 Countries (source http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2011/164221.htm )

Pursuant to the TVPA, governments of countries on Tier 3 may be subject to certain sanctions, whereby the U.S. government may withhold or withdraw nonhumanitarian, non-trade-related foreign assistance. In addition, countries on Tier 3 may not receive funding for government employees’ participation in educational and cultural exchange programs. Consistent with the TVPA, governments subject to sanctions would also face U.S. opposition to assistance (except for humanitarian, trade-related, and certain development-related assistance) from international financial institutions such as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank.

Imposed sanctions will take effect on October 1, 2011; however, all or part of the TVPA’s sanctions can be waived if the President determines that the provision of such assistance to the government would promote the purposes of the statute or is otherwise in the United States’ national interest. The TVPA also provides for a waiver of sanctions if necessary to avoid significant adverse effects on vulnerable populations, including women and children.

No tier ranking is permanent. Each and every country can do more, including the United States. All countries must maintain and increase efforts to combat trafficking.

[simple1]

"it still appeared in Tier 2 of the Watch List of the US State Department's report"

This is completely incorrect. There are 4 levels/tiers - Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 2 Watch List, Tier 3. Thailand is on Tier 2 Watch List for the 3rd consecutive year and would have been dropped to Tier 3 if they hadn't submitted a plan to do something to improve human trafficking in Thailand. But, like most plans in Thailand, it will not be acted upon, and Thailand should drop to Tier 3 next year - with major sanctions imposed.

In light of the Nasa decision, Thailand just might find itself dropping to Tier 3 even sooner than next year.

Tier 3 = sanctions?

No way, Thai govt delaying NASA decision has nothing to do with human trafficking

[Reasonableman]

In your mind, perhaps. If only politics were so neatly compartmentalized and rational.

[simple1]

In your mind, perhaps. If only politics were so neatly compartmentalized and rational.

Agreed, but for the US government to place Thailand on Tier 3 watch list will have significant implications on Thailand's international reputation and cost of international loan funding. It's way to much of a stretch to link the NASA debacle. But I don't work for the State Department so could be completely wrong.

[zydeco]

In your mind, perhaps. If only politics were so neatly compartmentalized and rational.

Agreed, but for the US government to place Thailand on Tier 3 watch list will have significant implications on Thailand's international reputation and cost of international loan funding. It's way to much of a stretch to link the NASA debacle. But I don't work for the State Department so could be completely wrong.

It's not just the NASA deal, it's the entire shift towards China that may get the US grumbling and feeling like it's time to slap some sense into the Thai government so that it can see there is a severe cost to be paid for the China tilt. BTW, I hate to see the US play with the tier designation like it's a political football. The issue is serious enough that Thailand deserves to be under sanctions simply because of their participation in human trafficking and the incumbent human rights violations. But it would be a supreme irony if the tilt towards China (the greatest violator of human rights, environmental standards, intellectual copyright theft) is what finally p.o.ed the US enough to rap the Thai government across their noggins.

[kerryk]

I didn't read this entire article, but it seems to be on point. Russian women are trafficked and turned into sex slaves. From what my wife has told me, i would say Russian women are vulnerable because drunk Russian bastards beat the shit out of them and Russian economy is pretty bleak.

http://www1.american...ted/traffic.htm

The article title is "Trafficking in Russian Women" and is a case study from a pretty reputable sources. Haha, more reputable than thr Kerryk theory of how to pick up women.

If the Russian economy is bleak no one has told the thousands of Russians who are the new majority of home buyers and tourists in Pattaya. Russia has substantially increased their flights to Thailand this year.

This is a Thai forum. Do you really expect anyone to believe Russian women are trafficked to Thailand for sex slaves? Come on fella. Have you ever been to Thailand?

Your article is 13 years old and does not mention anything about Russian women coming to Thailand.

This is a Thai forum and deals with Thai issues. If you want to talk about Russian issues I am sure there is a place to post about it.

[ttelise]

I didn't read this entire article, but it seems to be on point. Russian women are trafficked and turned into sex slaves. From what my wife has told me, i would say Russian women are vulnerable because drunk Russian bastards beat the shit out of them and Russian economy is pretty bleak.

http://www1.american...ted/traffic.htm

The article title is "Trafficking in Russian Women" and is a case study from a pretty reputable sources. Haha, more reputable than thr Kerryk theory of how to pick up women.

If the Russian economy is bleak no one has told the thousands of Russians who are the new majority of home buyers and tourists in Pattaya. Russia has substantially increased their flights to Thailand this year.

This is a Thai forum. Do you really expect anyone to believe Russian women are trafficked to Thailand for sex slaves? Come on fella. Have you ever been to Thailand?

Your article is 13 years old and does not mention anything about Russian women coming to Thailand.

This is a Thai forum and deals with Thai issues. If you want to talk about Russian issues I am sure there is a place to post about it.

Haha, like how you edit out parts of the above and try and shift focus.

You said "women are not trafficked from Russia" and to point out article stating they are. I did and there are more.

There is a Russian club on walking street and saw many Russian girls is South Pattaya. Maybe also check out Mix, Galaxy, Insomnia, Mullion Rougue, CM2, and etc. These girls are typically property of some mafia type and not there of their own volition.

Not sure what your dysfunction is, but perhaps you ignore them because you cannot afford 7k to 10k baht and opt for cheap local talent.

Regarding Russian economy, you probably are just seeing the Russian mafia who traffic Russian women buying up property. You and I apparently enjoy completely different standards of living if you think Russian economy offers a comfortable existence. Been there, pretty sad and glum. Hard life noticeable on everyone's face. Breaks my heart to see every time I go.

Edited July 1, 2012 by ttelise

[ttelise]

Kerryk:

The sad part is I merely mentioned Russia as a hypothetical to state Thailand does nothing to protect rights of foreign women. The country designation was irrelevant and I told you that yet you latched on in OCD fashion and kept making statements that "no women are trafficked from Russia."

Forget Russia. That just takes focus off the real issue. More needs to be done to protect the rights of women and Thailand perhaps should perhaps get smacked with economic sanctions so rescued women are not treated worse after being rescued. Let someone like Romney get into white house and Thailand could feel the sting of a religious zealot out to correct the world's heathen like qualities.

[canuckamuck]

You're both pretty, can we move on.

Edited July 1, 2012 by canuckamuck

[ttelise]

You're both pretty, can we move on.

Are you getting sweet on me?

[theblether]

I didn't read this entire article, but it seems to be on point. Russian women are trafficked and turned into sex slaves. From what my wife has told me, i would say Russian women are vulnerable because drunk Russian bastards beat the shit out of them and Russian economy is pretty bleak.

http://www1.american...ted/traffic.htm

The article title is "Trafficking in Russian Women" and is a case study from a pretty reputable sources. Haha, more reputable than thr Kerryk theory of how to pick up women.

If the Russian economy is bleak no one has told the thousands of Russians who are the new majority of home buyers and tourists in Pattaya. Russia has substantially increased their flights to Thailand this year.

This is a Thai forum. Do you really expect anyone to believe Russian women are trafficked to Thailand for sex slaves? Come on fella. Have you ever been to Thailand?

Your article is 13 years old and does not mention anything about Russian women coming to Thailand.

This is a Thai forum and deals with Thai issues. If you want to talk about Russian issues I am sure there is a place to post about it.

I have no idea if the Russian women in Pattaya are trafficked into the sex trade, but there have been innumerable reports of Eastern European women being trafficked into Western Europe. Accepting that some put on a sob story when they are caught by the police in the various brothels, I would imagine there are some who are genuinely entrapped.

If that is the case in Europe I don't know why it would be different in Thailand......anyway, it doesn't matter what I imagine.

My pal was in Moscow, there were hookers in his hotel lobby, he took one to his room, thought she was remarkable, went back to the lobby with her, and was met by a pimp who snarlingly asked did she do a good job. He reckons these girls are terrified.

Did I not read somewhere that there were Russian girls found shot dead on the beach in Pattaya, was that an urban myth? I genuinely don't know, only asking.

[ttelise]

I didn't read this entire article, but it seems to be on point. Russian women are trafficked and turned into sex slaves. From what my wife has told me, i would say Russian women are vulnerable because drunk Russian bastards beat the shit out of them and Russian economy is pretty bleak.

http://www1.american...ted/traffic.htm

The article title is "Trafficking in Russian Women" and is a case study from a pretty reputable sources. Haha, more reputable than thr Kerryk theory of how to pick up women.

If the Russian economy is bleak no one has told the thousands of Russians who are the new majority of home buyers and tourists in Pattaya. Russia has substantially increased their flights to Thailand this year.

This is a Thai forum. Do you really expect anyone to believe Russian women are trafficked to Thailand for sex slaves? Come on fella. Have you ever been to Thailand?

Your article is 13 years old and does not mention anything about Russian women coming to Thailand.

This is a Thai forum and deals with Thai issues. If you want to talk about Russian issues I am sure there is a place to post about it.

I have no idea if the Russian women in Pattaya are trafficked into the sex trade, but there have been innumerable reports of Eastern European women being trafficked into Western Europe. Accepting that some put on a sob story when they are caught by the police in the various brothels, I would imagine there are some who are genuinely entrapped.

If that is the case in Europe I don't know why it would be different in Thailand......anyway, it doesn't matter what I imagine.

My pal was in Moscow, there were hookers in his hotel lobby, he took one to his room, thought she was remarkable, went back to the lobby with her, and was met by a pimp who snarlingly asked did she do a good job. He reckons these girls are terrified.

Did I not read somewhere that there were Russian girls found shot dead on the beach in Pattaya, was that an urban myth? I genuinely don't know, only asking.

Yeah, they are terrified. Russian dudes are extremely violent and oppressive. Russian mafia also controls everything in Russia which is why stores like Walmart stayed out for so many years. If they can control McDonalds and etc., you really think they have trouble controling women. In fact, Russian mob dude would never let an opportunity go by if he see a freelancer working somewhere.

Suffice to say I know a lot of Eastern European women. Here are few Russian and Ukranians at my Christmas party. They are so of the hardest working good girls you will ever meet.