Is Cm Changing For The Better Or Worse

[wigantojapan]

judging by some of the comments on these threads and who am i to judge,but their seems to be a lot of pompous <snip> around in cm.

When i first came here it had the rep really as a stop over for the hills,more relaxing than bangkok with ok travellers

seeing people for what they were ,back packers seeking adventure and excitement .getting away from all the boring nonescense and image of trying to fit into a society back in the west.

its realy hilarious that in the matter of a day there has been comments about my educasion.my standard of life,inspirations etc etc

so for me cm has definately went down the lavvie pan as we say back home

prejidiced people with prejidiced minds trying to livve the exotic lifestyle

might have money and might have been old school boy

but no real values or inspirations not like the old travellers of yore

thanks for the laughs

wow happy i live in the hills in a 16000 one roomer

Edited June 29, 2012 by soundman
Removed inflammatory content.

[soundman]

Post criticising spelling removed from view.

No need to waste space highlighting a couple of basic spelling mistakes.

[mrclough]

I only just read your previous post boasting how you've seen lots of bands and artists and lived in a one room place.

Saw no reference to you're standard of education at all.

Maybe this post refers to another previous post along the same lines, pass?

I will say though, unless it's some really special place that 16000 is way over priced for a one room house / apartment / studio in Chiang Mai.

[Semper]

Worse.

[daoyai]

Worse for some, better for others. for me, worse. I like a vibrant international music scene. There used to be so many places to go, and feel relaxed and not as segregated, Braserie, Gallery, Riverside, then down the river a bit C-bar with the big house band open to jamming, Santias grotto, Guitar man, The reggae bar zone, the Riva. Now? most are gone, the others have changed and gotten dull (thanks to work permit regs.).

The town is more traffic congested and trying to go upscale but except for the pretentious Niman area, failing, the moderte but fun sleaze zones are..... finished for the most part. Trying to think of what has gotten better, will post later if I think of something.

[samsara]

been here 2 months. the more i know, the less i like it.

becoming a super pretentious pothole full of scam artists whove garnered their spoils through one plot or another.

if you can turn a blind eye to half the people who live here and the pace at which the place is trying to conform to their lifestyle, then its heaven.

[hellodolly]

I only just read your previous post boasting how you've seen lots of bands and artists and lived in a one room place.

Saw no reference to you're standard of education at all.

Maybe this post refers to another previous post along the same lines, pass?

I will say though, unless it's some really special place that 16000 is way over priced for a one room house / apartment / studio in Chiang Mai.

Ignore him on another thread he claimed he was living in a one room with his wife and some times four other relatives.

He also claimed he was living on 15,000 baht a month.

Is Chiang Mai for better or worse. I would have to say that for the poster it is for the better he claims to have lived in Asia for 25 years. One would think that a person with that kind of experience would pick the best place for him. For me it is better than North America. Can't say about other places as I have not been to that many. Yes it has it's draw backs but that applies to every where. In the six years I have been here it has lost nothing that I was attracted to originally. If you came for the music scene as a previous poster talked about yes it has lost a lot.

It is a personal decision.

[hellodolly]

been here 2 months. the more i know, the less i like it.

becoming a super pretentious pothole full of scam artists whove garnered their spoils through one plot or another.

if you can turn a blind eye to half the people who live here and the pace at which the place is trying to conform to their lifestyle, then its heaven.

Move out of the tourist zone.

[samsara]

been here 2 months. the more i know, the less i like it.

becoming a super pretentious pothole full of scam artists whove garnered their spoils through one plot or another.

if you can turn a blind eye to half the people who live here and the pace at which the place is trying to conform to their lifestyle, then its heaven.

Move out of the tourist zone.

its not where i live (im nowhere near the tourist zone), its just the general feel when youre out and about town.

[hellodolly]

been here 2 months. the more i know, the less i like it.

becoming a super pretentious pothole full of scam artists whove garnered their spoils through one plot or another.

if you can turn a blind eye to half the people who live here and the pace at which the place is trying to conform to their lifestyle, then its heaven.

Move out of the tourist zone.

its not where i live (im nowhere near the tourist zone), its just the general feel when youre out and about town.

Strange I don't get that feeling. I live in a tourist zone. couple of weeks ago dropped my wallet in a tuk tuk a hour later he showed up with it not a thing missing. The other day I went out for a bit and took a tuk tuk. I carry a foil wrapped pill in my shirt pocket for after a meal.(diabetes) wandered around a bit and when I returned home the tuk tuk driver called me over and gave it to me apparently it had fallen out of my pocket and I had not missed it as I had decided to eat at home.

A while back I walked into a Thai restaurant that some of us go to in the evening. It was full A Thai gentleman sitting by himself let me join him. My Thai is next to nothing and so is his English but we each enjoyed the time together.

I have a friend who would agree with you and the funny thing about it is he has a very low opinion of Thai's and wonders why he can't get around with out being hassled. I point out to him that I don't have that opinion of Thai's and I get along fine with them. So far he has not been able to connect the dots.

[samsara]

been here 2 months. the more i know, the less i like it.

becoming a super pretentious pothole full of scam artists whove garnered their spoils through one plot or another.

if you can turn a blind eye to half the people who live here and the pace at which the place is trying to conform to their lifestyle, then its heaven.

Move out of the tourist zone.

its not where i live (im nowhere near the tourist zone), its just the general feel when youre out and about town.

Strange I don't get that feeling. I live in a tourist zone. couple of weeks ago dropped my wallet in a tuk tuk a hour later he showed up with it not a thing missing. The other day I went out for a bit and took a tuk tuk. I carry a foil wrapped pill in my shirt pocket for after a meal.(diabetes) wandered around a bit and when I returned home the tuk tuk driver called me over and gave it to me apparently it had fallen out of my pocket and I had not missed it as I had decided to eat at home.

A while back I walked into a Thai restaurant that some of us go to in the evening. It was full A Thai gentleman sitting by himself let me join him. My Thai is next to nothing and so is his English but we each enjoyed the time together.

I have a friend who would agree with you and the funny thing about it is he has a very low opinion of Thai's and wonders why he can't get around with out being hassled. I point out to him that I don't have that opinion of Thai's and I get along fine with them. So far he has not been able to connect the dots.

im coming at it from a different perspective.

i speak fairly good thai and prefer thai company to that of a farang. my problem stems from the types of farang that are now settling in cm, and the way that the thai business community and govt are adjusting the city to suit these cashcows' whims -- hence the stricter wp law, the end of loy kroh eventually, and generally the closing down of many of the more carefree areas that initially drew many of us here.

i realize its not just the whiteys who are setting about these changes, for there are many well-heeled thais, chinese, japs, etc., who venture to cm. but they tend to blend in far better than the obnoxious farangs youre accustomed to find in bkk, phuket, and pattaya.

just seems like the place is losing its luster in many respects. too much rapid development, too many trendy new areas, too much money. but money tends to ruin everything...

Edited June 29, 2012 by samsara

[Ulysses G.]

Better - at least for a place to live. Most of the expats were on the strange side (to say the least) a few decades ago and good foreign food, recorded music, movies, TV programs and books were very difficult to get and with very little choice.That has all changed for the better.

Laws were enforced a lot less. One Time Magazine story called Chiang Mai a "wild West town".

Of course some things were nicer. Everything was cheaper back then and it was easier to learn Thai because so few Thais spoke English, but all in all, I like it better now.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[soundman]

Reported off topic posts removed from view.

[iainiain101]

i speak fairly good thai and prefer thai company to that of a farang. my problem stems from the types of farang that are now settling in cm, and the way that the thai business community and govt are adjusting the city to suit these cashcows' whims -- hence the stricter wp law, the end of loy kroh eventually, and generally the closing down of many of the more carefree areas that initially drew many of us here.

What is WP Law? Google only gave me wikipedia law.

[wigantojapan]

I only just read your previous post boasting how you've seen lots of bands and artists and lived in a one room place.

Saw no reference to you're standard of education at all.

Maybe this post refers to another previous post along the same lines, pass?

I will say though, unless it's some really special place that 16000 is way over priced for a one room house / apartment / studio in Chiang Mai.

sorr mr clough as i come from the mr STEin school i thought you would have understood

It was no mere an intention to boast just a school boy reply toa pompous idiot who was mocking my status in life,

yes again the education part refers to a previous post.

The 16000 refers to size not price hence 1600 square a rai i believe ,That refers to my other room in Bang Pang

Hope that clears up that

Mr clough Mr o neill has done a fine job thank you

[TommoPhysicist]

......... I like a vibrant international music scene. There used to be so many places to go, and feel relaxed and not as segregated, Braserie, Gallery, Riverside, then down the river a bit C-bar with the big house band open to jamming, Santias grotto, Guitar man, The reggae bar zone, the Riva. Now? most are gone, the others have changed and gotten dull (thanks to work permit regs.).

So you liked all the farang bars where aging amateur foreign musicians used to bang out covers of 'Hotel California'

But claiming that to be 'a vibrant international music scene' is going just a tad too far IMHO.

CM is my nearest 'civilised city', 350km from my village, but well worth a visit every couple of months.

It has a first class Thai music scene, played by professional Thai musicians.

Thinking of buying my son a holiday home there, as we like it so much.

Edited June 29, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Better - at least for a place to live. Most of the expats were on the strange side (to say the least) a few decades ago and good foreign food, recorded music, movies, TV programs and books were very difficult to get and with very little choice.That has all changed for the better.

Laws were enforced a lot less. One Time Magazine story called Chiang Mai a "wild West town".

Of course some things were nicer. Everything was cheaper back then and it was easier to learn Thai because so few Thais spoke English, but all in all, I like it better now.

Agreed. It's *MUCH* better in just about every way. I'd need to think really long and hard to find something that's worse.. and even that isn't objectively worse but actually better. (eg. there used to be a lot more rough off-road trails to the hilltribe villages close-ish to town. That these all turned into roads that you can drive a Honda City up may be a negative for those appreciating the adventurous, but for the villages at the end of those roads it's objectively a blessing.

I think it's a psychological feature of the human mind that memories get better over time. And even objectively, some people may have had a blast when they were young and handsome, now they have more to worry about; that's a natural progression in life and not a specific change in Chiang Mai.. because the young and handsome are STILL having a blast.

Edited June 29, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[daoyai]

......... I like a vibrant international music scene. There used to be so many places to go, and feel relaxed and not as segregated, Braserie, Gallery, Riverside, then down the river a bit C-bar with the big house band open to jamming, Santias grotto, Guitar man, The reggae bar zone, the Riva. Now? most are gone, the others have changed and gotten dull (thanks to work permit regs.).

So you liked all the farang bars where aging amateur foreign musicians used to bang out covers of 'Hotel California'

But claiming that to be 'a vibrant international music scene' is going just a tad too far IMHO.

CM is my nearest 'civilised city', 350km from my village, but well worth a visit every couple of months.

Thinking of buying my son a holiday home there, as we like it so much.

I have only heard Thais cover Hotel Calif. , we are all aging, but feel free to perpetuate your steriotypical cliches if it makes you happy. Edited June 29, 2012 by daoyai

[hellodolly]

been here 2 months. the more i know, the less i like it.

becoming a super pretentious pothole full of scam artists whove garnered their spoils through one plot or another.

if you can turn a blind eye to half the people who live here and the pace at which the place is trying to conform to their lifestyle, then its heaven.

Move out of the tourist zone.

its not where i live (im nowhere near the tourist zone), its just the general feel when youre out and about town.

This is in reply to one of your later posts.

I wouldn't exactly call loi Kroh a non touristy area.

Yes there is a lot of Asians coming in now. And for sure they will have a affect on the businesspeople.For sure the bars are going to be changing. I also noticed this year women. They seem to be coming in groups now. As well as families.

Perhaps because you can understand Thai it would make a difference on your opinion of them. I don't speak it or understand it. Well just a little but that means I don't generally here what they say about me.

I suspect you will be moving along soon then. If Thailand is your thing I am sure you will find what you are looking for. For myself the beach would be nice. But Alas every where has it's drawbacks. And to be honest with you I have had enough wild and whakey ( my spell check said whiskey had that too) days. Now I just want to take it easy. Maybe go for a chat at a monk chat. Or a movie Dine out just simple life.

[wigantojapan]

I only just read your previous post boasting how you've seen lots of bands and artists and lived in a one room place.

Saw no reference to you're standard of education at all.

Maybe this post refers to another previous post along the same lines, pass?

I will say though, unless it's some really special place that 16000 is way over priced for a one room house / apartment / studio in Chiang Mai.

Ignore him on another thread he claimed he was living in a one room with his wife and some times four other relatives.

He also claimed he was living on 15,000 baht a month.

Is Chiang Mai for better or worse. I would have to say that for the poster it is for the better he claims to have lived in Asia for 25 years. One would think that a person with that kind of experience would pick the best place for him. For me it is better than North America. Can't say about other places as I have not been to that many. Yes it has it's draw backs but that applies to every where. In the six years I have been here it has lost nothing that I was attracted to originally. If you came for the music scene as a previous poster talked about yes it has lost a lot.

It is a personal decision.

wow you are a very doubting person and seem like a bit of a controller by telling people to ignore me

thought you would be more reaxed after what you claim to be 6 years in CM

sorry people dont understand my style of writing and my spelling grammar and use of commas is not quite up to scratch

never the less

yes i have been in Asia 25 years

my first time in CM was 1989 and like i said i was just passing through on the way to the hills where basically i stayed with a Chai wallah(tea man) for a few months on the border area.

That was an open one roomer

CM then didnt have such a good rep for most of us back packers/travellers it was only like i said a passing through

Cm was full og husslers trying to get you to go on trecks to the mountains

GH that were peeved if you never and threw you out if you didnt

yes there was a few right on vegetarian restaurants who were run by cool westerners who had lived the life of a traveller

and yes the music scene was jumping and relaxed

There was little or no one studying Thai massage

so hence no schools and no therapists dreaming of gold in the west(that reads as how much they an charge once they get to invarably usa )

Fast forward 1989 in between india bali,pakistan.nepal Japan i am back in THailand because of a tighning of visa regulation,or in my case a loss of stutus

This was in Japan or i would quite happily have stayed there..

Now i am ack in Thailand a) to study massageb) to grow my own veg.

Yes i am here to see if i want to stay full term so now i am into my 15 months of observation on the point of staying here full time

clear enough

[hellodolly]

......... I like a vibrant international music scene. There used to be so many places to go, and feel relaxed and not as segregated, Braserie, Gallery, Riverside, then down the river a bit C-bar with the big house band open to jamming, Santias grotto, Guitar man, The reggae bar zone, the Riva. Now? most are gone, the others have changed and gotten dull (thanks to work permit regs.).

So you liked all the farang bars where aging amateur foreign musicians used to bang out covers of 'Hotel California'

But claiming that to be 'a vibrant international music scene' is going just a tad too far IMHO.

CM is my nearest 'civilised city', 350km from my village, but well worth a visit every couple of months.

It has a first class Thai music scene, played by professional Thai musicians.

Thinking of buying my son a holiday home there, as we like it so much.

Daddy

[elektrified]

......... I like a vibrant international music scene. There used to be so many places to go, and feel relaxed and not as segregated, Braserie, Gallery, Riverside, then down the river a bit C-bar with the big house band open to jamming, Santias grotto, Guitar man, The reggae bar zone, the Riva. Now? most are gone, the others have changed and gotten dull (thanks to work permit regs.).

So you liked all the farang bars where aging amateur foreign musicians used to bang out covers of 'Hotel California'

But claiming that to be 'a vibrant international music scene' is going just a tad too far IMHO.

CM is my nearest 'civilised city', 350km from my village, but well worth a visit every couple of months.

It has a first class Thai music scene, played by professional Thai musicians.

Thinking of buying my son a holiday home there, as we like it so much.

I don't think I ever saw a single farang playing music at Brasserie, Riverside, or Goodview either. The Guitarman did have farangs playing there but I would say 90% of them were professionals and were very good. They also had many Thai musicians. I don't like the bars were older farangs are playing covers either. I don't believe for a minute that is what daoyai meant.

I noticed last night that the Riva is gone??? or remodeling??? Chai's has been gone for some time now. Boy's place is good but more variety is needed.

[wigantojapan]

better or worse

pollution much worse .might have been the time of year but i cant remember any smog ,fog pollution and like i mentioned i stayed in the hills for a few months.

music scene- worse easy to find goof western music as well as the locals playing quality

still is good music even today but the reg on the farang has changed it for the worse

food choice better-even though i was only eating Thai food the first time i came ,now that i eat muesli and chocolate and even miso have to say better

.

textiles another passion of mine more choice but the quality is hard to find now.More mass produded tourist hill tribe

never had any one try to sell me rubies at the bus stop,back in the day happened on a regular basis

[elektrified]

Air quality and traffic: worse. Quality of Westerners moving here: worse.

[hellodolly]

I only just read your previous post boasting how you've seen lots of bands and artists and lived in a one room place.

Saw no reference to you're standard of education at all.

Maybe this post refers to another previous post along the same lines, pass?

I will say though, unless it's some really special place that 16000 is way over priced for a one room house / apartment / studio in Chiang Mai.

Ignore him on another thread he claimed he was living in a one room with his wife and some times four other relatives.

He also claimed he was living on 15,000 baht a month.

Is Chiang Mai for better or worse. I would have to say that for the poster it is for the better he claims to have lived in Asia for 25 years. One would think that a person with that kind of experience would pick the best place for him. For me it is better than North America. Can't say about other places as I have not been to that many. Yes it has it's draw backs but that applies to every where. In the six years I have been here it has lost nothing that I was attracted to originally. If you came for the music scene as a previous poster talked about yes it has lost a lot.

It is a personal decision.

wow you are a very doubting person and seem like a bit of a controller by telling people to ignore me

thought you would be more reaxed after what you claim to be 6 years in CM

sorry people dont understand my style of writing and my spelling grammar and use of commas is not quite up to scratch

never the less

yes i have been in Asia 25 years

my first time in CM was 1989 and like i said i was just passing through on the way to the hills where basically i stayed with a Chai wallah(tea man) for a few months on the border area.

That was an open one roomer

CM then didnt have such a good rep for most of us back packers/travellers it was only like i said a passing through

Cm was full og husslers trying to get you to go on trecks to the mountains

GH that were peeved if you never and threw you out if you didnt

yes there was a few right on vegetarian restaurants who were run by cool westerners who had lived the life of a traveller

and yes the music scene was jumping and relaxed

There was little or no one studying Thai massage

so hence no schools and no therapists dreaming of gold in the west(that reads as how much they an charge once they get to invarably usa )

Fast forward 1989 in between india bali,pakistan.nepal Japan i am back in THailand because of a tighning of visa regulation,or in my case a loss of stutus

This was in Japan or i would quite happily have stayed there..

Now i am ack in Thailand a) to study massageb) to grow my own veg.

Yes i am here to see if i want to stay full term so now i am into my 15 months of observation on the point of staying here full time

clear enough

I am relaxed have to be to read your conflicting reports from a one room at 6,000 baht to 16,000 baht a month to 1,600 rai actually I don't take them serious

[wigantojapan]

Hello Dolly

sory you cant follow my style of writing.I come from the Irvine welsh school of literature and its a tad difficult for me to a) write in English stop for breath for my fingers to catch up with my thoughts.c) use a computer

i Have a one room in CM 6000 baht

i also have a 1600 meter open room in BP. no rent as it has been bought

[mrclough]

I think what the Op is wanting is somewhere without progress and where time stands still.

Maybe things have moved forward faster than you can deal with them.

Maybe as a multi-cultural and developing city Chiang Mai (and the rest of the country) are moving in a direction and at a pace that is too much for you to cope with.

No matter how much you don't like it, it's going to continue this way regardless.

As you say, you have travelled as a back packer, by the sounds of things, for quite a lot of years. This kind of travelling is usually students taking a year from studies who then return to education or work. I'm presuming by the number of years travelling you do not fall into this category.

Could it be that your "loss in status" has made you a little jealous of the people who spend their years working and not travelling backpack / hippie and made a decent living?

I'm not saying you haven't but it's quite easy to make that presumption from your comments.

[el jefe]

I only just read your previous post boasting how you've seen lots of bands and artists and lived in a one room place.

Saw no reference to you're standard of education at all.

Maybe this post refers to another previous post along the same lines, pass?

I will say though, unless it's some really special place that 16000 is way over priced for a one room house / apartment / studio in Chiang Mai.

Ignore him on another thread he claimed he was living in a one room with his wife and some times four other relatives.

He also claimed he was living on 15,000 baht a month.

Is Chiang Mai for better or worse. I would have to say that for the poster it is for the better he claims to have lived in Asia for 25 years. One would think that a person with that kind of experience would pick the best place for him. For me it is better than North America. Can't say about other places as I have not been to that many. Yes it has it's draw backs but that applies to every where. In the six years I have been here it has lost nothing that I was attracted to originally. If you came for the music scene as a previous poster talked about yes it has lost a lot.

It is a personal decision.

wow you are a very doubting person and seem like a bit of a controller by telling people to ignore me

thought you would be more reaxed after what you claim to be 6 years in CM

sorry people dont understand my style of writing and my spelling grammar and use of commas is not quite up to scratch

never the less

yes i have been in Asia 25 years

my first time in CM was 1989 and like i said i was just passing through on the way to the hills where basically i stayed with a Chai wallah(tea man) for a few months on the border area.

That was an open one roomer

CM then didnt have such a good rep for most of us back packers/travellers it was only like i said a passing through

Cm was full og husslers trying to get you to go on trecks to the mountains

GH that were peeved if you never and threw you out if you didnt

yes there was a few right on vegetarian restaurants who were run by cool westerners who had lived the life of a traveller

and yes the music scene was jumping and relaxed

There was little or no one studying Thai massage

so hence no schools and no therapists dreaming of gold in the west(that reads as how much they an charge once they get to invarably usa )

Fast forward 1989 in between india bali,pakistan.nepal Japan i am back in THailand because of a tighning of visa regulation,or in my case a loss of stutus

This was in Japan or i would quite happily have stayed there..

Now i am ack in Thailand a) to study massageb) to grow my own veg.

Yes i am here to see if i want to stay full term so now i am into my 15 months of observation on the point of staying here full time

clear enough

You've mentioned the farang music scene a few times now and how it's not as good as it was. The farang music scene is much better in farangland. It was always better in farangland.

Most of the backpackers I know of who were just passing through CM to spend months in hill tribe villages back in the 1980's were here for the drugs. They usually brought some back with them.

imo, CM is a much better place now.

[trainman34014]

Since we moved out of Wifeys noisy home village,which happens to be now divided by a main drag, things have been getting better and better in our quiet corner plot 15 klicks from town. Don't go into the City unless it's unavoidable and 108,or not far off it, and the local markets have it for all our shopping. Neighbours are great, both Thai and Farang, so from a personal point of view things are moving ever upward. It's all about what people want and expect for themselves.

[wigantojapan]

music will always be better in farangland

not between november 7-14 th when Keb Darge and Guy Hennigan will play Thailand.

yes thank god they have replaced the poppies with high quality tea

so on that point cm is better]