Harsh Lesson Or Job Well Done...Daughter Swept Down River

[samsiam]

Yesterday swimming at our farm, we have a river on it and myself and 2 kids went for a swim, the water level was up a little from recent rains.

walking down river and collecting rocks..the kids were in the water in a calm section and then up in front was a little strong current with small wavey rapids....

My 7yo daughter was rolling about in the water before the rapid section...she rolled too far and got sucked into the stream and floated down the river....

By the time my 10yo son alerted me as I was looking at rocks below my feet...he was laughing and yelling 'look xxxx is floating down the river'.... I dropped my precious rocks and ran into the river......but stayed about 5m from her and instead of jumping to get her....I shouted instructions what to do to save herself.

Mind you, she was panicking and going under water and crying all at the same time.

The current in this little section was quite strong, I later stood in it and it was chest deep in couple of places, but it swpet me away, could not stand still.

Anyway, she was trying to swim back up river...in the current....a big no no....so each time she popped up I yelled at her to swim to the calm area...swim across the current.....she eventually did and stood up in the shallows......crying a lot and coughing up water.

But I congratulated her on saving her self for a good 15 minutes and we continued what we were doing.

A short time later both her and the boy were in the same section and now hurtling themselves down the same rapids and bouncing their <deleted> over the rocks before the deep section and then swimming away to the quite area.....all laughs.

It was a split second decision to do it like that and I believe she has learnt a valuable lesson that just might save her arse one day....even though if the wife had been present...boy would I be in the shit.

[theblether]

What a story Sam, I was swept down and under by a strong current at my local river when I was a teenager. I wasn't at the point of losing my life but it gave me a shock as I had never known water to be so unexpectedly dangerous. The only other time I felt as vulnerable in water was when I capsized during a canoe course and the water was so cold it drained my energy to the point I was lucky to drag myself out.

As long as you felt you were in control then I say harsh lesson, my only concern would be a repeat performance if you weren't there with serious consequences. I think it's time for some serious water safety courses and go buy a couple of lifesavers and leave them down at the swimming zone.

Better safe than sorry..............so that being the case it was a harsh lesson for you too.

Edited July 8, 2012 by theblether

[NomadJoe]

So does she know how to swim then? Drowning is the #1 cause of killer of kids in SEA, much higher than in the west, as most do not learn to swim.

[7by7]

I think it's time for some serious water safety courses and go buy a couple of lifesavers and leave them down at the swimming zone.

Totally agree.

I've been involved in water sports of various types since I was the same age as your little girl, and one thing learned right at the beginning is that you must never fight the water, 'cos the water will always win!.

[samsiam]

Easy said than done when you are 7yo and in the river being swept away.....much easier in a pool....but a pool does not involve the real factor of 'panic'...which is what she developed very quickly and even good swimmers can drown because of that.

yes, she can swim very well and has been since circa 3yo...she won a school relay race a couple weeks ago...she can also duck dive down to 3m when she was I think 5, definitely 6yo.

The thing is that it was the perfect situation to sit back and watch what she does....yes she went under, just head popping up and then being dunked by the rough water again.....she was never in danger of actually drowning as there was calmer areas beyond the little rapids and I would have been on top of her if it had got to that. It was controlled by me, but it was a harsh lesson for her seeing as it upset her so....but I instantly thought the pros and cons and felt it well worth it to do in a reality situation....you can teach and teach and teach in a sterile environment....but the chance to do something real like that in a very real situation does not come along frequently.

Also my boy watching learnt from it....when they went sliding down he knew exactly what to do when in the strong current.

[samsiam]

Also....i taught my kids to swim myslef from when they could stand up in a kiddies pool.

[smokie36]

You only disrespect the water once...if you are lucky as I was you wilk never be so foolish again.

[nocturn]

props mate, i too taught my kid to swim, and it was not until she hit big waves at the beach that she realized how well she actually could swim.

i probably would have made the same call, but hen i am the guy who is guilty of chucking my 3 year old daughter into the deep end to prove to both her, and, more importantly, her mother, that she could swim.

mother was angry, daughter was triumphant.

[jombom]

Also....i taught my kids to swim myslef from when they could stand up in a kiddies pool.

Congrats to you and your daughter (more importantly).

But the harsh moral of the story, is that a person with young children, should never purchase a property near water.

Or a railway line, for that matter. Kids simply do not have the knowledge or experience.

[nocturn]

Also....i taught my kids to swim myslef from when they could stand up in a kiddies pool.

Congrats to you and your daughter (more importantly).

But the harsh moral of the story, is that a person with young children, should never purchase a property near water.

Or a railway line, for that matter.

i could not agree more strongly.

but you you must be more clear, after all, we are saving lives.

People with children should should not live on, or near, streets or roads.

Children should not be exposed to pets of any sort -- animals are unpredictable.

Houses of more than a single story are unsuitable for children of all ages.

Airline travel with children is simply negligence and will not be condoned.

taxis, personal cars, buses and all forms of transport , are to be avoided.

Children should not eat sushi or other fresh or uncooked foods like fruit or vegetables

Articles of clothing like shirts, skirts, shorts, pants, and under garments are dangerous and to be avoided.

Laughter is a potential choke hazard.

Children should at all times wear appropriate head gear and be firmly padded - duct tape and bubble wrap are remarkably effective.

If possible, abort and avoid responsibility altogether.

[nocturn]

You only disrespect the water once...if you are lucky as I was you wilk never be so foolish again.

cryptic, but i agree with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFqzpdG6o60

The movie swimming to cambodia is recommended viewing

Edited July 8, 2012 by nocturn

[Beetlejuice]

So that river on a farm that you say you own, (not sure how) has parts with strong currants and only need to make a slight misjudgement or accidentally roll or fall into the wrong part of the river and then one can be up against the forces of the water and be swept away.

And you as a father let your 7 year old daughter and 10 year old son play in that river completely susceptible to drowning in a deep water river with strong under currants while you followed your own ridiculous little interest of stone collecting, that it appears the thought of losing them were more important than your daughter’s predicament.

You stayed about 5m from your daughter, rather than jumping in to get her and shouted instructions what to do to save herself, plus your daughter swallowed a load of that water and who knows what diseases are lurking about in there. In fact you gambled with this child’s life. You exposed your children to extreme dangers and was a miracle that your 7 year old daughter did not drown or had smashed her head against some rocks.

This is the most irresponsible act I have heard and quite frankly if you were in the States or the UK, you would be liable for investigation by the Child Protection Services and definitely declared unfit to be left in charge of young children.

You consider this as an amusing experience and believe you have done proud with your daughter, but in fact you are a dullard with absolutely no common sense and you’re the one who deserves to be congratulated, as being a prize fool.

[samsiam]

So that river on a farm that you say you own, (not sure how) has parts with strong currants and only need to make a slight misjudgement or accidentally roll or fall into the wrong part of the river and then one can be up against the forces of the water and be swept away.

And you as a father let your 7 year old daughter and 10 year old son play in that river completely susceptible to drowning in a deep water river with strong under currants while you followed your own ridiculous little interest of stone collecting, that it appears the thought of losing them were more important than your daughter’s predicament.

You stayed about 5m from your daughter, rather than jumping in to get her and shouted instructions what to do to save herself, plus your daughter swallowed a load of that water and who knows what diseases are lurking about in there. In fact you gambled with this child’s life. You exposed your children to extreme dangers and was a miracle that your 7 year old daughter did not drown or had smashed her head against some rocks.

This is the most irresponsible act I have heard and quite frankly if you were in the States or the UK, you would be liable for investigation by the Child Protection Services and definitely declared unfit to be left in charge of young children.

You consider this as an amusing experience and believe you have done proud with your daughter, but in fact you are a dullard with absolutely no common sense and you’re the one who deserves to be congratulated, as being a prize fool.

Candidate for cotton wool award of the year.

You had to be there BJ.....and from your post I would presume your child would be a well adjusted 2012 kid spending their life playing video games.....but be careful, always chance of electric shock.

You seemed to conveniently miss the bit where after the incident they both jumped in the same section of river and floated down dozens of times having a right hoot.

As for child protection services in the west....well thank the lord I do not live there anymore.....the rules made to protect the rules from the rules are quite ridiculous these days.

Anyway...thanks for your post as I knew some people would not agree with it.

And on the unsupervised care of my kids by the river....they never are in that situation...never. However, you should see the Thai local kids that are set loose down there everyday by themselves...all ages, from 6yo upwards...and I don't mean 6 with 14/15yo's taking care of them....groups of kids 6/8yo......there is a nice avenue for your thoughts.

[cornishcarlos]

So that river on a farm that you say you own, (not sure how) has parts with strong currants and only need to make a slight misjudgement or accidentally roll or fall into the wrong part of the river and then one can be up against the forces of the water and be swept away.

And you as a father let your 7 year old daughter and 10 year old son play in that river completely susceptible to drowning in a deep water river with strong under currants while you followed your own ridiculous little interest of stone collecting, that it appears the thought of losing them were more important than your daughter’s predicament.

You stayed about 5m from your daughter, rather than jumping in to get her and shouted instructions what to do to save herself, plus your daughter swallowed a load of that water and who knows what diseases are lurking about in there. In fact you gambled with this child’s life. You exposed your children to extreme dangers and was a miracle that your 7 year old daughter did not drown or had smashed her head against some rocks.

This is the most irresponsible act I have heard and quite frankly if you were in the States or the UK, you would be liable for investigation by the Child Protection Services and definitely declared unfit to be left in charge of young children.

You consider this as an amusing experience and believe you have done proud with your daughter, but in fact you are a dullard with absolutely no common sense and you’re the one who deserves to be congratulated, as being a prize fool.

I agree completely... Ever heard of Secondary drowning ? Google it, might make you think twice about letting your daughter get dragged under repeatedly.. You are a muppet...

[edwinclapham]

Jeesh, my blood turned cold reading this Sam! Pleased your daughter is OK!

[necronx99]

I remember jumping into the pool as a 4 yr old without my water wings on, I was panicing and flopping about and my dad who was outside the pool just told me to swim.

Threw the water wings away when i got out some hours later.

[canuckamuck]

Sam you did well, and you didn't waste an excellent and rare opportunity to teach your kids something that might well save their life someday.

I a m jealous that you have a swimmable section of river to teach your kids in. The river on my place changes from too shallow to to swift, to make any teaching worthwhile.

I am always pleased when my kids learn a lesson about danger. In this country they are unlikely to learn to be careful from their friends or teachers. We have a short time before our influence is diluted by the herd.

[samsiam]

I agree completely... Ever heard of Secondary drowning ? Google it, might make you think twice about letting your daughter get dragged under repeatedly.. You are a muppet...

Ever heard of kids swallowing bucket loads of water while learning to swim....moreso in the oceans with the waves.

Yes, i know of secondary drowning....it is the one after the first one and she did not do the first one, so the second one is irrelevant.

[cornishcarlos]

Just in case you can't be bothered...

http://infolific.com/health-and-fitness/first-aid/secondary-drowning/

Teaching your kids important safety is a must for sure but in a controlled manner would be healthier

[samsiam]

Sam you did well, and you didn't waste an excellent and rare opportunity to teach your kids something that might well save their life someday.

I a m jealous that you have a swimmable section of river to teach your kids in. The river on my place changes from too shallow to to swift, to make any teaching worthwhile.

I am always pleased when my kids learn a lesson about danger. In this country they are unlikely to learn to be careful from their friends or teachers. We have a short time before our influence is diluted by the herd.

I agree...it was a split second decision to teach something that may save her life for real in the future.....too good to pass up in my opinion and certainly non worse for wear considering her jumping into it on her own within 30 minutes later.

She learnt a lesson that NO swimming teacher could teach her in a pool....simple as that.

As for our river.....we used a backhoe to dig a swimming hole in it.....but it fills back in each wet season, so a repeated process.

[cornishcarlos]

I agree completely... Ever heard of Secondary drowning ? Google it, might make you think twice about letting your daughter get dragged under repeatedly.. You are a muppet...

Ever heard of kids swallowing bucket loads of water while learning to swim....moreso in the oceans with the waves.

Yes, i know of secondary drowning....it is the one after the first one and she did not do the first one, so the second one is irrelevant.

I guessed right, you don't really know the true meaning of Secondary drowning..

What's next, put her on a Fino and send her out into the traffic to 'learn'

Oh dear...

[samsiam]

I agree completely... Ever heard of Secondary drowning ? Google it, might make you think twice about letting your daughter get dragged under repeatedly.. You are a muppet...

Ever heard of kids swallowing bucket loads of water while learning to swim....moreso in the oceans with the waves.

Yes, i know of secondary drowning....it is the one after the first one and she did not do the first one, so the second one is irrelevant.

I guessed right, you don't really know the true meaning of Secondary drowning..

What's next, put her on a Fino and send her out into the traffic to 'learn'

Oh dear...

Fino to heavy for her.

And considering you were not present...you do not have an idea of the extent of her being under the water.

Being Australian and around water a lot....I am not a lifesaver...but I am a parent.....and most definitely kids swallow as much, if not more in backyard swimming pools.

The other day a friend called....complained about his kid on the computer all day...and this was 8am.....I looked at my daughter and she was outside in her PJ's climbing a tree.....best stop her from that also huh ??

Bottom line is....this little episode may save her life one day....even if it simply stops her from panicking so much nect time....or if caught in a current one day anywhere...she remembers to swim to calmer water......she is more likely to remember this from real experience than from someone telling her 100 times.

[cornishcarlos]

I agree completely... Ever heard of Secondary drowning ? Google it, might make you think twice about letting your daughter get dragged under repeatedly.. You are a muppet...

Ever heard of kids swallowing bucket loads of water while learning to swim....moreso in the oceans with the waves.

Yes, i know of secondary drowning....it is the one after the first one and she did not do the first one, so the second one is irrelevant.

I guessed right, you don't really know the true meaning of Secondary drowning..

What's next, put her on a Fino and send her out into the traffic to 'learn'

Oh dear...

Fino to heavy for her.

And considering you were not present...you do not have an idea of the extent of her being under the water.

Being Australian and around water a lot....I am not a lifesaver...but I am a parent.....and most definitely kids swallow as much, if not more in backyard swimming pools.

The other day a friend called....complained about his kid on the computer all day...and this was 8am.....I looked at my daughter and she was outside in her PJ's climbing a tree.....best stop her from that also huh ??

Bottom line is....this little episode may save her life one day....even if it simply stops her from panicking so much nect time....or if caught in a current one day anywhere...she remembers to swim to calmer water......she is more likely to remember this from real experience than from someone telling her 100 times.

Correct, I wasn't there..

You said she was going under the water and crying. Then coughing up water..

That is why I wanted to high light the potential hazard of inhaling as opposed to swallowing water.

Swallowing water might make you sick but generally won't kill you, inhaling even a small amount can be very dangerous.

She is your daughter, do what you want but no need to post about neglect on here if you don't want the inevitable slating.... Hope she turns out to be a strong swimmer though

[chrisinth]

I agree completely... Ever heard of Secondary drowning ? Google it, might make you think twice about letting your daughter get dragged under repeatedly.. You are a muppet...

Ever heard of kids swallowing bucket loads of water while learning to swim....moreso in the oceans with the waves.

Yes, i know of secondary drowning....it is the one after the first one and she did not do the first one, so the second one is irrelevant.

I don't know how so many kids survived before they made an issue of secondary drowning! I know it wasn't until the early 90's that it was recognised in the Royal Navy (as part of their H&E developement) that it became such a pain in the @ss to the extent that if anyone fell into the water during the course of their duty, whether it was for 30 seconds or 30 hours, they had to spend 24 hours under observation.

Where I can understand the need for H&E to a limit, sometimes it can get too much. I spent most of my time doing small boat operations and the number of times I was in the drink couldn't be counted. Same applied when I was a kid, similar to your daughter's age and up.

As said before, how did we survive??

[samsiam]

Correct, I wasn't there..

You said she was going under the water and crying. Then coughing up water..

That is why I wanted to high light the potential hazard of inhaling as opposed to swallowing water.

Swallowing water might make you sick but generally won't kill you, inhaling even a small amount can be very dangerous.

She is your daughter, do what you want but no need to post about neglect on here if you don't want the inevitable slating.... Hope she turns out to be a strong swimmer though

Never said I did not expect any negativity....in fact said above somewhere expected it.....no issue with others opinions....but mine is correct.

I see kids cough up water every time in a pool....it's how they learn not to open their mouths under water....doubt there is a kid in the world that has not done so.....that has learnt to swim anyway.

[chrisinth]

I agree completely... Ever heard of Secondary drowning ? Google it, might make you think twice about letting your daughter get dragged under repeatedly.. You are a muppet...

Ever heard of kids swallowing bucket loads of water while learning to swim....moreso in the oceans with the waves.

Yes, i know of secondary drowning....it is the one after the first one and she did not do the first one, so the second one is irrelevant.

I guessed right, you don't really know the true meaning of Secondary drowning..

What's next, put her on a Fino and send her out into the traffic to 'learn'

Oh dear...

Fino to heavy for her.

And considering you were not present...you do not have an idea of the extent of her being under the water.

Being Australian and around water a lot....I am not a lifesaver...but I am a parent.....and most definitely kids swallow as much, if not more in backyard swimming pools.

The other day a friend called....complained about his kid on the computer all day...and this was 8am.....I looked at my daughter and she was outside in her PJ's climbing a tree.....best stop her from that also huh ??

Bottom line is....this little episode may save her life one day....even if it simply stops her from panicking so much nect time....or if caught in a current one day anywhere...she remembers to swim to calmer water......she is more likely to remember this from real experience than from someone telling her 100 times.

Sam, you let a growing child climb a tree? There should be available a computer simulation for this action; much safer!..........

It's what kids do, or rather should be doing! I applaud you for your actions with the swimming, and the tree climbing. As long as it is controlled, let them learn for themselves!

[samsiam]

As said before, how did we survive??

We did.....but more to the point how will these kids of today survive in the future.

A good bit of nasty dirty river water in your lungs and guts.......or never and panic when you are 25yo and drown cos you have no idea.

By the way...our river is clean....comes out of the mountains, no big farms or villages to pass through and relatively very small catchment area before reaches us....i have even drank it several times.....imagine that hey....drinking river water.

[geriatrickid]

It would not have taken much for this to have been a tragedy. Instead of a posting looking for a pat on the back, it would have been a post looking for sympathy and subject to multiple cries of irresponsible behaviour. Sorry, but this is not how to drownproof a child. Yes, it might have worked this time, and congratulations for beating the odds. Considering the fact that every year, children drown in the bath or in facilities with lifeguards, I am glad that you feel confident of your ability to beat the current and make those 5 meters and then have been able to get down into the water to find a submerged child had she gone under. Think about it some more.

In respect to those that say there is no harm in swallowing river water, protozoan pathogens are common in Thailand's water ways.

There are over 750 different types of human helminth infections. Do I really need to demonstrate the link between bacterial diarrhea and water? Hepatitis A is a viral disease spread through consumption of food or water contaminated with fecal matter, principally in areas of poor sanitation; Hepatitis E - is a water-borne viral disease most commonly spread through fecal contamination of drinking water

Typhoid fever - is a bacterial disease spread through contact with food or water contaminated by fecal matter or sewage

Although not usually associated with rivers, Leptospirosis is a bacterial disease that affects animals and humans; infection occurs through contact with water, food, or soil contaminated by animal urine. In the first 7 months of 2011 there 1050 cases and 16 deaths. Deptartment of public health advises that high attack rates (per 100 000 population) were reported in these 5 provinces: Ranong (11.55), Nong

Bua Lam Phu (9.38), Phang Nga (9.14), Nan (8.83) and Kalasin (7.65). Farmers were typically the infected patients, but their families also popped up in the data.

Seriously, we shouldn't even be having a discussion on the safety of Thailand's rivers. Any river that flows through an agricultural or an industrial district will most certainly be contaminated.

[Beetlejuice]

As said before, how did we survive??

We did.....but more to the point how will these kids of today survive in the future.

A good bit of nasty dirty river water in your lungs and guts.......or never and panic when you are 25yo and drown cos you have no idea.

By the way...our river is clean....comes out of the mountains, no big farms or villages to pass through and relatively very small catchment area before reaches us....i have even drank it several times.....imagine that hey....drinking river water.

Sorry pal, but there can be no excuses.

You placed the child in a precarious and uncontrolled situation. You gambled that the little girl would be able to over come the forces of the river and make it out safely.

Your discernment and actions in this case are those of an idiot.

I would be very interested to know more about your farming business, how you came to have exclusive rights over a river on agricultural land that probably you are not entitled to own and whether or not the said children are actually your kids or step children? Because if I was in knowledge of this information, I would have no hesitation in reporting you to the authorities to ensure the welfare and safety of those children.

If so sure that you are a competent parent or guardian and a bona-fide farm owner, than why not put it to the test? Only need to PM me the details, to see if the police will share the same opinions as yourself?

Edited July 9, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[fletchsmile]

Sorry mate, you're daughter may have learnt a few life saving skills this time, but I definitely wouldn't say job well done, and overall not a harsh lesson learnt, as you missed the key point. You just don't take risks with your daughter's life like that. On this occasion things turned out well for you and you were lucky.

You may have thought you were in control of the situation, and perhaps (even probably) you were, but virtually nothing is certain in life. Don't forget that many drownings come from underestimating the currents or over-confidence. There were plenty of "unlucky" things that could have gone wrong. You can't see what is under the water, she could have snagged her foot on something and got pulled under, with it being difficult to free; if she didn't manage it herself you might have slipped or had a mishap of some sort; the current may have been stronger than expected and so on. What happens if you did go in, and while struggling with the daughter, the son does something, maybe stops laughing and realises it's serious, even tries to help and fails - with you now needing to save 2 at the same time.

OK the odds of these may have been small, maybe one in a thousand or whatever, but in life and death situations you just don't take a risk. That's the key lesson you missed. Unexpected things can happen in these situations, and it's a fine line between being lucky or very unlucky. Accidents are just that, accidents - when things unexpected or unplanned things happen

You're right to draw the positives, and perhaps there's also a natural reaction in the relief, but don't overlook the negatives that might have been. Very happy for you it all worked out in the end. Think again as geriatrickid says:

It would not have taken much for this to have been a tragedy. Instead of a posting looking for a pat on the back, it would have been a post looking for sympathy and subject to multiple cries of irresponsible behaviour. Sorry, but this is not how to drownproof a child. Yes, it might have worked this time, and congratulations for beating the odds. Considering the fact that every year, children drown in the bath or in facilities with lifeguards, I am glad that you feel confident of your ability to beat the current and make those 5 meters and then have been able to get down into the water to find a submerged child had she gone under. Think about it some more.

.....

Edited July 9, 2012 by fletchsmile