Thai Army Issues Rebuttal Of Over Killing Of Taxi Driver: 2010 Political Violence

[webfact]

2010 POLITICAL VIOLENCE

Army issues rebuttal of over killing of taxi driver

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- The Army yesterday issued a statement rebutting its involvement in the killing of a taxi driver during the 2010 political mayhem.

In the statement, the Army said it wanted to clarify the prosecution’s testimony during the judicial inquest on the death of Channarong Pholsrila on May 15, 2010, in front of a petrol station on Ratchaprarop Road.

According to the Army's statement, the fatal shooting of Channarong occurred after the Army deployed its soldiers into the live-fire zone on Rang Nam Road as part of the operations to encircle the red-shirt rally at Ratchaprasong.

However, the Army states, unidentified gunmen launched an attack, forcing soldiers to retreat to Ratchaprarop 14 Road. This exchange of gunfire proves the existence of other armed men in the area, who were unrelated to the military, the Army says.

During the gun battle, local residents alerted soldiers to the fatal shooting of Channarong and the wounding of a journalist.

The Army dispatched medics, accompanied by a news photographer, in a rescue operation.

Before reaching the scene to recover the taxi driver's body and rescue the injured journalist, the medics came under attack and the news photographer sustained gunshot wounds.

At the inquest, the witness testified that Channarong had been shot by an assault rifle. However, the testimony made no mention of a ballistics report that would determine whether or not it was an Army rifle.

-- The Nation 2012-07-19

[Thai at Heart]

Indeed, overkill is unecessary

[noitom]

The "live-fire zone," and a previous news story indicated that it was a very high powered rifle like those used by the security service. Over two years and still no ballistics report. The outside world is supposed to believe that this is not rigged. Did the ballistics report show a Barrett M107 or another such high powered rifle?

[jonclark]

The "live-fire zone," and a previous news story indicated that it was a very high powered rifle like those used by the security service. Over two years and still no ballistics report. The outside world is supposed to believe that this is not rigged. Did the ballistics report show a Barrett M107 or another such high powered rifle?

The ballistics report will never see the light of day someone in the government (past or present) or in the army has buried that report.

[Katipo]

During the redshirt siege of Bangkok the soldiers I saw live or on TV were restrained, and even polite. They had the respect and admiration of the local populace. The same can't be said for the police, but that's another matter.

The army have their flaws, but anyone who witnessed the events in Bangkok with their own eyes knows exactly where the trouble came from.

[OzMick]

The "live-fire zone," and a previous news story indicated that it was a very high powered rifle like those used by the security service. Over two years and still no ballistics report. The outside world is supposed to believe that this is not rigged. Did the ballistics report show a Barrett M107 or another such high powered rifle?

The ballistics report will never see the light of day someone in the government (past or present) or in the army has buried that report.

Ummm, yeah well, unless the projectile was recovered, what will a ballistics report indicate other than he was hit with a high velocity round? And if the projectile remained in the body, and turned out to be a 6.5mm jacketed military round, it will still not indicate if it was fired from an M-16 RTA rifle, or in whose possession that rifle was at the time of the incident.

[carra]

During the redshirt siege of Bangkok the soldiers I saw live or on TV were restrained, and even polite. They had the respect and admiration of the local populace. The same can't be said for the police, but that's another matter.

The army have their flaws, but anyone who witnessed the events in Bangkok with their own eyes knows exactly where the trouble came from.

I saw the opposite, but we can all have opinions based on personal experience and whether one is unbiased or whether one wears a particular colour.

[SuneeTH]

The "live-fire zone," and a previous news story indicated that it was a very high powered rifle like those used by the security service. Over two years and still no ballistics report. The outside world is supposed to believe that this is not rigged. Did the ballistics report show a Barrett M107 or another such high powered rifle?

What "Live-Fire Zone"?

There was NEVER a "Live-Fire Zone".

Mark/Suthep order was clear. "Only rubber bullets were used, which was the last measure," said Suthep

Please show me a picture proof that there is a "Live-Fire Zone", pref in English.

[mistitikimikis]

Next week is the court-case concerning the death of the Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi.

[SuneeTH]

Next week is the court-case concerning the death of the Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi.

What the point of all these endless court cases with no verdict?

You cannot sue the army as they are the protector of our father.

Edited July 19, 2012 by SuneeTH

[arrowsdawdle]

During the redshirt siege of Bangkok the soldiers I saw live or on TV were restrained, and even polite. They had the respect and admiration of the local populace. The same can't be said for the police, but that's another matter.

The army have their flaws, but anyone who witnessed the events in Bangkok with their own eyes knows exactly where the trouble came from.

You must have been very scared in the live fire zone.

Did you see only army?

Were the demonstrators not polite?

[GeorgeO]

The "live-fire zone," and a previous news story indicated that it was a very high powered rifle like those used by the security service. Over two years and still no ballistics report. The outside world is supposed to believe that this is not rigged. Did the ballistics report show a Barrett M107 or another such high powered rifle?

The ballistics report will never see the light of day someone in the government (past or present) or in the army has buried that report.

Ummm, yeah well, unless the projectile was recovered, what will a ballistics report indicate other than he was hit with a high velocity round? And if the projectile remained in the body, and turned out to be a 6.5mm jacketed military round, it will still not indicate if it was fired from an M-16 RTA rifle, or in whose possession that rifle was at the time of the incident.

Indeed, let us not forget that military barracks were raided, with a large cache of weapons subsequently being unaccounted for.

Even if anyone were to prove that the shot came from a weapon used by the Thai Army, there is insufficient proof (given the loss of significant numbers of military weapons) to make any conclusions as to who actually fired the shot.

[arrowsdawdle]

The "live-fire zone," and a previous news story indicated that it was a very high powered rifle like those used by the security service. Over two years and still no ballistics report. The outside world is supposed to believe that this is not rigged. Did the ballistics report show a Barrett M107 or another such high powered rifle?

What "Live-Fire Zone"?

There was NEVER a "Live-Fire Zone".

Mark/Suthep order was clear. "Only rubber bullets were used, which was the last measure," said Suthep

Please show me a picture proof that there is a "Live-Fire Zone", pref in English.

How many do you want?

Live Fire.docx

[mistitikimikis]

Anyway, let's end the discussion and conclude that NOBODY in the army fired deadly, easy like that! Getting very tired about these discussions!

"Keeping quiet while monks and other peaceful protesters are murdered and jailed is not evidence of constructive engagement." - Arvind Ganesan, Human Rights Watch."

Edited July 19, 2012 by mistitikimikis

[mistitikimikis]

ACHR warned that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva can be held individually responsible as provided under the Article 25(3)(a) of the Rome Statute of International Criminal Court for intentionally directed the attacks against the civilian demonstrators who are not taking part in any hostility as provided under Article 8(2)(e)(i) of the Rome Statute. http://www.achrweb.org/press/2010/THAI02-2010.html

Bangkok: The Asian Centre for Human Rights, a NGO having Special Consultative Status with the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) warned against impending human rights catastrophe against the Red Shirts demonstrators in Bangkok, Thailand and condemned the violations of the right to life of the Red Shirt protestors and absolute denial of the freedom of expression by the Government of Thailand through banning and/or blocking of all the television stations, radio stations and the internet sites allegedly closed to the opposition political parties.

The evidence including video records of the events on 10 April 2010 presented to the ACHR establish beyond any reasonable doubt that the Thai security forces used disproportionate force that resulted in the violation of the right to life of a large number of civilians and injury of about 800 protestors.

Principle 9 of the United Nations Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials clearly states that “Law enforcement officials shall not use firearms against persons except in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury, to prevent the perpetration of a particularly serious crime involving grave threat to life, to arrest a person presenting such a danger and resisting their authority, or to prevent his or her escape, and only when less extreme means are insufficient to achieve these objectives. In any event, intentional lethal use of firearms may only be made when strictly unavoidable in order to protect life”.

“It is clear from the evidence submitted to the ACHR by the opposition political parties that the firings by the security forces have not been ‘in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury’ but premeditated and willful acts of killings.”- stated Mr Suhas Chakma, Director of Asian Centre for Human Rights. http://http://www.achrweb.org/press/2010/THAI01-2010.html

Source: ACHR

[phiphidon]

Indeed, let us not forget that military barracks were raided, with a large cache of weapons subsequently being unaccounted for.

Even if anyone were to prove that the shot came from a weapon used by the Thai Army, there is insufficient proof (given the loss of significant numbers of military weapons) to make any conclusions as to who actually fired the shot.

I presume you mean this story about a military barracks being "raided"

Posted 2010-03-07 17:34:28

6,000 guns and explosives stolen from barracks

BANGKOK: -- Acting Thai government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn confirmed on Sunday that an urgent investigation was being conducted into “a massive loss of weapons and explosives” from an army base in the southern province of Phattalung.

According to Mr Panitan, a police report was filed last Thursday and investigators are attempting to determine whether the weapons have fallen into the hands of insurgents in the south, or the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), aka the red-shirts, who plan to hold its million man march and rally commencing this Friday, March 12, in an attempt to oust the government.

Informed sources claim about 6,000 assault rifles and a large amount of explosives were taken from Engineering Regiment 401, part of the Fourth Army Region, in Phatthalung Province, and the theft was only discovered on Tuesday.

http://www.thaivisa....-army-barracks/

Subsequently found to have been stolen by army troops over a period of time and sold on the black market. Of course, Suthep couldn't miss the opportunity for a bit of propaganda

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said yesterday he would not brush aside the possibility the weapons could be used at the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) rally planned for this Sunday.

“

So far there has not been any evidence that the arms thief is linked to the anti-government rally,

but I feel worried about it

,” said Mr Suthep, who oversees security affairs.

“

As a result, I ordered all provincial governors to set up checkpoints to search vehicles heading to Bangkok on all routes to prevent the transportation of the stolen weapons into the capital.

“

http://asiancorrespo...d-stoking-fear/

Even General Anupong said it involved rogue soldiers

The stolen weapons in Phatthalung were smuggled out of an Army's arsenal over time but culprits made it appeared like a break-in, Army chief General Anupong Paochinda said on Tuesday.

Anupong vowed to get to the bottom of the matter in order to bring culprits to justice. The theft is seen as an insider job.

"I think the theft involved certain rogue soldiers," Anupong said, hinting at the individual crime and not an arms smuggling ring as previously believed.

http://www.nationmul...n-30124269.html

Just part of the government (dem) propaganda put out at the time and still believed it seems. Read the whole TV thread, interesting reading on government predictions and grenade/bomb incidents...............

[whybother]

I presume you mean this story about a military barracks being "raided"

Posted 2010-03-07 17:34:28

6,000 guns and explosives stolen from barracks

<snip>

Subsequently found to have been stolen by army troops over a period of time and sold on the black market.

<snip>

On the black market, where people with the right connections can buy them and possibly use them to shoot cabbies.

[Katipo]

During the redshirt siege of Bangkok the soldiers I saw live or on TV were restrained, and even polite. They had the respect and admiration of the local populace. The same can't be said for the police, but that's another matter.

The army have their flaws, but anyone who witnessed the events in Bangkok with their own eyes knows exactly where the trouble came from.

You must have been very scared in the live fire zone.

Did you see only army?

Were the demonstrators not polite?

I lived at Ding Dang, and no the protestors were not polite... especially when I tried to take a photo of them waving sticks and acting all important.

One time I was riding alone Thanon Si Ayudhya towards Rachaprop on my motorbike. The traffic was backed up for about 1km with only the bikes making progress. Up ahead I heard a volley of 3 shots. The bikes all started to slow down. Then another 3 shots, and we all did U turns and started to ride against the jammed traffic. People in taxis got out and started running. Those in cars were stuck.

In my rear vision mirror I saw a dwarf running towards me. A second later he vaulted on to the back of my bike. &lt;deleted&gt; little man! He furiously started tapping me on my shoulder and telling me in Thai to ‘go go’. “No shit little man, what do you think I am doing!?!” We dart through the U-turn area and speed back towards Din Daeng. Little Man starts shouting directions. He ain’t going where I am going, but I figure I must get some massive karma for helping this guy out. Obviously he is terrified and just wants to get home. Obviously I was freaking wrong.

Next thing I know I am back at Thanon Sri Ayudhya under the expressway amongst a group of Red Shirts who have spilled out of the neighbouring slum. Little Man bounces off the back of my bike, picks up a 4 by 2 and goes screaming up the road. Shit! I’m an accessory to a militant dwarf! Still, I figure since I am here I might as well stop and take some photos.

There are about 15-20 Red Shirts 20 metres up the road; behind them a much larger group of onlookers. The Red Shirts have rocks, bottle rockets, Molotov cocktails, and are setting tires alight and rolling them down the road and round the corner. Around that corner is an army van and a small number of soldiers.

After a few minutes of watching and taking photos of the red shirts hurling their arsenal accompanied by taunts and laughter, the army respond with rubber bullets, 3 of them. Next thing I know the red shirts are all running towards me frantically, and crowd starts to disperse, some of them crying. Being somewhat scared and not entirely stupid, I was still wearing my motorbike helmet and pollution filter mask, so I didn’t feel the effects of the gas. I joined the crowds in pulling back about 20 metres, only to watch everyone take their original positions again a few minutes later. This same process of increasingly confident red shirts hurling home-made projectiles only to flee when the arm fired a couple of shots repeated itself another 2 or 3 times. As far as I could see, no one was hit by either rubber bullets or anything that the Red Shirts were firing.

Having a motorbike allowed unprecedented access to all sorts of areas during the occupation. The army I saw were always disciplined, although I don’t claim to have seen everything. The red shirts ranged from a menacing and truly dangerous mob, to mums and their kids camped out harmlessly under the BTS. Not far from the BTS near Chula, I saw many simply queued up to fill out a form, handing in their ID, and receive their payment from the organizers.

I don’t blame these mobs just because they are red shirts. If you get a group of lower socio-economic disenfranchised young men together, and give them a cause that gives their life some meaning, some importance, of course you are going to get trouble. As the same time, there is no good excuse for their behavior too.

As to who is ultimately to blame? Those with the money and the power on both sides, are so adept at telling lies that as, the real truth will likely never be known

Edited July 19, 2012 by Katipo

[arrowsdawdle]

During the redshirt siege of Bangkok the soldiers I saw live or on TV were restrained, and even polite. They had the respect and admiration of the local populace. The same can't be said for the police, but that's another matter.

The army have their flaws, but anyone who witnessed the events in Bangkok with their own eyes knows exactly where the trouble came from.

You must have been very scared in the live fire zone.

Did you see only army?

Were the demonstrators not polite?

I lived at Ding Dang, and no the protestors were not polite... especially when I tried to take a photo of them waving sticks and acting all important.

One time I was riding alone Thanon Si Ayudhya towards Rachaprop on my motorbike. The traffic was backed up for about 1km with only the bikes making progress. Up ahead I heard a volley of 3 shots. The bikes all started to slow down. Then another 3 shots, and we all did U turns and started to ride against the jammed traffic. People in taxis got out and started running. Those in cars were stuck.

In my rear vision mirror I saw a dwarf running towards me. A second later he vaulted on to the back of my bike. &lt;deleted&gt; little man! He furiously started tapping me on my shoulder and telling me in Thai to ‘go go’. “No shit little man, what do you think I am doing!?!” We dart through the U-turn area and speed back towards Din Daeng. Little Man starts shouting directions. He ain’t going where I am going, but I figure I must get some massive karma for helping this guy out. Obviously he is terrified and just wants to get home. Obviously I was freaking wrong.

Next thing I know I am back at Thanon Sri Ayudhya under the expressway amongst a group of Red Shirts who have spilled out of the neighbouring slum. Little Man bounces off the back of my bike, picks up a 4 by 2 and goes screaming up the road. Shit! I’m an accessory to a militant dwarf! Still, I figure since I am here I might as well stop and take some photos.

There are about 15-20 Red Shirts 20 metres up the road; behind them a much larger group of onlookers. The Red Shirts have rocks, bottle rockets, Molotov cocktails, and are setting tires alight and rolling them down the road and round the corner. Around that corner is an army van and a small number of soldiers.

After a few minutes of watching and taking photos of the red shirts hurling their arsenal accompanied by taunts and laughter, the army respond with rubber bullets, 3 of them. Next thing I know the red shirts are all running towards me frantically, and crowd starts to disperse, some of them crying. Being somewhat scared and not entirely stupid, I was still wearing my motorbike helmet and pollution filter mask, so I didn’t feel the effects of the gas. I joined the crowds in pulling back about 20 metres, only to watch everyone take their original positions again a few minutes later. This same process of increasingly confident red shirts hurling home-made projectiles only to flee when the arm fired a couple of shots repeated itself another 2 or 3 times. As far as I could see, no one was hit by either rubber bullets or anything that the Red Shirts were firing.

Having a motorbike allowed unprecedented access to all sorts of areas during the occupation. The army I saw were always disciplined, although I don’t claim to have seen everything. The red shirts ranged from a menacing and truly dangerous mob, to mums and their kids camped out harmlessly under the BTS. Not far from the BTS near Chula, I saw many simply queued up to fill out a form, handing in their ID, and receive their payment from the organizers.

I don’t blame these mobs just because they are red shirts. If you get a group of lower socio-economic disenfranchised young men together, and give them a cause that gives their life some meaning, some importance, of course you are going to get trouble. As the same time, there is no good excuse for their behavior too.

As to who is ultimately to blame? Those with the money and the power on both sides, are so adept at telling lies that as, the real truth will likely never be known

Great story about the little man, haha. He's no doubt shared the story as well.

Do rubber bullets have a different sound when fired or were you close enough to see them loaded into the rifles? Do you think the crowd knew they were rubber bullets? Do you think they would be panicking to escape from non-lethal ammunition?

If you get a group of lower socio-economic disenfranchised young men together, and give them a cause that gives their life some meaning, some importance, of course you are going to get trouble.

Are you suggesting that it is okay for lower socio-economic young men to be relegated to a life with no meaning or importance?

Edited July 19, 2012 by arrowsdawdle

[mistitikimikis]

"The war between the have-nots (doesn't have to lose a lot or nothing) and the settlement (who has to lose a lot)"

[chuang]

Has anyone file a lawsuit anainst Abhisit for the killings...

[Katipo]

During the redshirt siege of Bangkok the soldiers I saw live or on TV were restrained, and even polite. They had the respect and admiration of the local populace. The same can't be said for the police, but that's another matter.

The army have their flaws, but anyone who witnessed the events in Bangkok with their own eyes knows exactly where the trouble came from.

You must have been very scared in the live fire zone.

Did you see only army?

Were the demonstrators not polite?

I lived at Ding Dang, and no the protestors were not polite... especially when I tried to take a photo of them waving sticks and acting all important.

One time I was riding alone Thanon Si Ayudhya towards Rachaprop on my motorbike. The traffic was backed up for about 1km with only the bikes making progress. Up ahead I heard a volley of 3 shots. The bikes all started to slow down. Then another 3 shots, and we all did U turns and started to ride against the jammed traffic. People in taxis got out and started running. Those in cars were stuck.

In my rear vision mirror I saw a dwarf running towards me. A second later he vaulted on to the back of my bike. &lt;deleted&gt; little man! He furiously started tapping me on my shoulder and telling me in Thai to ‘go go’. “No shit little man, what do you think I am doing!?!” We dart through the U-turn area and speed back towards Din Daeng. Little Man starts shouting directions. He ain’t going where I am going, but I figure I must get some massive karma for helping this guy out. Obviously he is terrified and just wants to get home. Obviously I was freaking wrong.

Next thing I know I am back at Thanon Sri Ayudhya under the expressway amongst a group of Red Shirts who have spilled out of the neighbouring slum. Little Man bounces off the back of my bike, picks up a 4 by 2 and goes screaming up the road. Shit! I’m an accessory to a militant dwarf! Still, I figure since I am here I might as well stop and take some photos.

There are about 15-20 Red Shirts 20 metres up the road; behind them a much larger group of onlookers. The Red Shirts have rocks, bottle rockets, Molotov cocktails, and are setting tires alight and rolling them down the road and round the corner. Around that corner is an army van and a small number of soldiers.

After a few minutes of watching and taking photos of the red shirts hurling their arsenal accompanied by taunts and laughter, the army respond with rubber bullets, 3 of them. Next thing I know the red shirts are all running towards me frantically, and crowd starts to disperse, some of them crying. Being somewhat scared and not entirely stupid, I was still wearing my motorbike helmet and pollution filter mask, so I didn’t feel the effects of the gas. I joined the crowds in pulling back about 20 metres, only to watch everyone take their original positions again a few minutes later. This same process of increasingly confident red shirts hurling home-made projectiles only to flee when the arm fired a couple of shots repeated itself another 2 or 3 times. As far as I could see, no one was hit by either rubber bullets or anything that the Red Shirts were firing.

Having a motorbike allowed unprecedented access to all sorts of areas during the occupation. The army I saw were always disciplined, although I don’t claim to have seen everything. The red shirts ranged from a menacing and truly dangerous mob, to mums and their kids camped out harmlessly under the BTS. Not far from the BTS near Chula, I saw many simply queued up to fill out a form, handing in their ID, and receive their payment from the organizers.

I don’t blame these mobs just because they are red shirts. If you get a group of lower socio-economic disenfranchised young men together, and give them a cause that gives their life some meaning, some importance, of course you are going to get trouble. As the same time, there is no good excuse for their behavior too.

As to who is ultimately to blame? Those with the money and the power on both sides, are so adept at telling lies that as, the real truth will likely never be known

Great story about the little man, haha. He's no doubt shared the story as well.

Do rubber bullets have a different sound when fired or were you close enough to see them loaded into the rifles? Do you think the crowd knew they were rubber bullets? Do you think they would be panicking to escape from non-lethal ammunition?

If you get a group of lower socio-economic disenfranchised young men together, and give them a cause that gives their life some meaning, some importance, of course you are going to get trouble.

Are you suggesting that it is okay for lower socio-economic young men to be relegated to a life with no meaning or importance?

No, and you are reaching if you try to draw that from my words. However this group of people are never going to attain equality as long as they are pawns in the games of the rich and powerful. 'Grass roots' movements don't bring down the elite, the middle-classes do. Only they have the means to bring real change to the country.

My only hope for Thailand is that the 'middle class', particularly the women, reach a tipping point where they no longer accept the &lt;deleted&gt; they are fed from a corrupt and broken system.

[Moruya]

During the redshirt siege of Bangkok the soldiers I saw live or on TV were restrained, and even polite. They had the respect and admiration of the local populace. The same can't be said for the police, but that's another matter.

The army have their flaws, but anyone who witnessed the events in Bangkok with their own eyes knows exactly where the trouble came from.

You must have been very scared in the live fire zone.

Did you see only army?

Were the demonstrators not polite?

I lived at Ding Dang, and no the protestors were not polite... especially when I tried to take a photo of them waving sticks and acting all important.

One time I was riding alone Thanon Si Ayudhya towards Rachaprop on my motorbike. The traffic was backed up for about 1km with only the bikes making progress. Up ahead I heard a volley of 3 shots. The bikes all started to slow down. Then another 3 shots, and we all did U turns and started to ride against the jammed traffic. People in taxis got out and started running. Those in cars were stuck.

In my rear vision mirror I saw a dwarf running towards me. A second later he vaulted on to the back of my bike. &lt;deleted&gt; little man! He furiously started tapping me on my shoulder and telling me in Thai to ‘go go’. “No shit little man, what do you think I am doing!?!” We dart through the U-turn area and speed back towards Din Daeng. Little Man starts shouting directions. He ain’t going where I am going, but I figure I must get some massive karma for helping this guy out. Obviously he is terrified and just wants to get home. Obviously I was freaking wrong.

Next thing I know I am back at Thanon Sri Ayudhya under the expressway amongst a group of Red Shirts who have spilled out of the neighbouring slum. Little Man bounces off the back of my bike, picks up a 4 by 2 and goes screaming up the road. Shit! I’m an accessory to a militant dwarf! Still, I figure since I am here I might as well stop and take some photos.

There are about 15-20 Red Shirts 20 metres up the road; behind them a much larger group of onlookers. The Red Shirts have rocks, bottle rockets, Molotov cocktails, and are setting tires alight and rolling them down the road and round the corner. Around that corner is an army van and a small number of soldiers.

After a few minutes of watching and taking photos of the red shirts hurling their arsenal accompanied by taunts and laughter, the army respond with rubber bullets, 3 of them. Next thing I know the red shirts are all running towards me frantically, and crowd starts to disperse, some of them crying. Being somewhat scared and not entirely stupid, I was still wearing my motorbike helmet and pollution filter mask, so I didn’t feel the effects of the gas. I joined the crowds in pulling back about 20 metres, only to watch everyone take their original positions again a few minutes later. This same process of increasingly confident red shirts hurling home-made projectiles only to flee when the arm fired a couple of shots repeated itself another 2 or 3 times. As far as I could see, no one was hit by either rubber bullets or anything that the Red Shirts were firing.

Having a motorbike allowed unprecedented access to all sorts of areas during the occupation. The army I saw were always disciplined, although I don’t claim to have seen everything. The red shirts ranged from a menacing and truly dangerous mob, to mums and their kids camped out harmlessly under the BTS. Not far from the BTS near Chula, I saw many simply queued up to fill out a form, handing in their ID, and receive their payment from the organizers.

I don’t blame these mobs just because they are red shirts. If you get a group of lower socio-economic disenfranchised young men together, and give them a cause that gives their life some meaning, some importance, of course you are going to get trouble. As the same time, there is no good excuse for their behavior too.

As to who is ultimately to blame? Those with the money and the power on both sides, are so adept at telling lies that as, the real truth will likely never be known

Nice story in some ways. Typically Thailand - nothing serious happens without something funny happening too.

One of the memories (most of them oh so sad) of the Tsunami was a Brit being interviewed by the BBC very early on before the true horror was known. He was on the back of a tuk tuk that had been carried some way by the water. The tuk tuk driver fled as quickly as possible "without waiting for his fare" said the Brit in a truly shocked tone.

[Joeb]

ACHR warned that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva can be held individually responsible as provided under the Article 25(3)(a) of the Rome Statute of International Criminal Court for intentionally directed the attacks against the civilian demonstrators who are not taking part in any hostility as provided under Article 8(2)(e)(i) of the Rome Statute. http://www.achrweb.o...HAI02-2010.html

Bangkok: The Asian Centre for Human Rights, a NGO having Special Consultative Status with the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) warned against impending human rights catastrophe against the Red Shirts demonstrators in Bangkok, Thailand and condemned the violations of the right to life of the Red Shirt protestors and absolute denial of the freedom of expression by the Government of Thailand through banning and/or blocking of all the television stations, radio stations and the internet sites allegedly closed to the opposition political parties.

The evidence including video records of the events on 10 April 2010 presented to the ACHR establish beyond any reasonable doubt that the Thai security forces used disproportionate force that resulted in the violation of the right to life of a large number of civilians and injury of about 800 protestors.

Principle 9 of the United Nations Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials clearly states that “Law enforcement officials shall not use firearms against persons except in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury, to prevent the perpetration of a particularly serious crime involving grave threat to life, to arrest a person presenting such a danger and resisting their authority, or to prevent his or her escape, and only when less extreme means are insufficient to achieve these objectives. In any event, intentional lethal use of firearms may only be made when strictly unavoidable in order to protect life”.

“It is clear from the evidence submitted to the ACHR by the opposition political parties that the firings by the security forces have not been ‘in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury’ but premeditated and willful acts of killings.”- stated Mr Suhas Chakma, Director of Asian Centre for Human Rights. http://http://www.ac...HAI01-2010.html

Source: ACHR

There is never anything in these reports about the dead soldiers or civilians at train stops. Guess they assume the soldiers shot each other to justify their shooting at the reds.

In my opinion pretty much everyone was wrong in one way or another, which is almost always the case when a situation like this occurs. I follow one simple rule when looking at these things. Your rights stop when you start denying someone else of their rights. From that perspective, I think the scales tip in the favor of the government, who allowed the demonstration to continue for weeks and weeks, offered the thing that the demonstrators were supposedly asking for, only to have it rejected and who gave, in my opinoin, sufficient warning to the demonstrators what would happen if the demonstration was not stopped. I certainly don't condone shooting at unarmed people and is someone can prove that the soldiers intentionally shot ordinary demonstrators on purpose or that someone ordered them to shoot those demonstrators then I believe they should be prosecuted.

On the demonstrators side, they denied people access to their jobs, schools and houses, illegally searched people, spewed hate speech over the loadspeakers all day and night, clearly fired on unarmed people and made threats of violence against any and all who did not agree with them.

[nicknostitz]

The "rebuttal" by the army on the killing of Channarong is unbelievalby wrong, and looks to me a sign of desperation.

First of all - there was no gun battle.

The bullets came from one direction only - from where the soldiers were stationed, about 80 meters away. There was physically simply no possibility that a third force could have got between the army and shot at the protesters and us. Opposite us was one soi, and from where we were we would have seen such a force. Rang Naam would have been the only other possibility, if the military would not have had their bunkers a few meters off Soi Rang Naam, and could have shot these nonexistent unidentified gunmen during the 16 minutes continous fire until the badly injured Channarong managed to get out of the little tire barricade he was stuck in (the shooting, by the way continued intermittedly over the next few hours when we were stuck in the compound behind the gas station).

There was no rescue mission, and there was no news photographer accompanying the military who was shot. Chaiwat, the Nation photographer who was shot in the incident on the opposite side the road from me, came the same way as all of us photographers there - together with the protesters from Samliem Dindaeng. He has, by the way, already testified at court.

If this would have been a rescue mission, i wonder as well why the soldier who then helped pulling Channarong out of the little pond he slipped in, screamed at him (including expletatives), that he should die.

A detailed account i wrote during the night after i managed to get home from the incident, just google my name and "in the klilling zone".

As to evidence, forensic investigations of the bullet that killed Channarong have been performed. There is more evidence, such as bullet holes, etc, with clear trajectories, videos taken from several direction during the incident, and many witnesses, including several journalists, both Thai and foreign (including me, and i have already testified at court).

There were of course so called "Men in Black" during the 2010 violence who shot at soldiers - but not during this incident.

There were "unidentified" forces other than the army that shot at Red Shirts - but again, not during this particular incident.

This is about one incident - the death of Channarong Ponsrila, and the injuries of several others, including of one clearly identifiable journalist, and the "rebuttal", which is more than liberal with facts.

[mistitikimikis]

There are always two sides on a story, but the balance seems always to tip onto a certain side and surprisingly enough about the violent demonstrations one year before nobody cares a lot......................., especially not from farang-side.........................

[clockman]

Remember the military has been shooting civilians from 1973-1976-1992- 2004, nobody ever charged. Why should this be any different!

[mistitikimikis]

Remember the military has been shooting civilians from 1973-1976-1992- 2004, nobody ever charged. Why should this be any different!

[nurofiend]

I presume you mean this story about a military barracks being "raided"

Posted 2010-03-07 17:34:28

6,000 guns and explosives stolen from barracks

<snip>

Subsequently found to have been stolen by army troops over a period of time and sold on the black market.

<snip>

On the black market, where people with the right connections can buy them and possibly use them to shoot cabbies.

right connections?

i thought anyone could get them?

[nurofiend]

The "rebuttal" by the army on the killing of Channarong is unbelievalby wrong, and looks to me a sign of desperation.

First of all - there was no gun battle.

The bullets came from one direction only - from where the soldiers were stationed, about 80 meters away. There was physically simply no possibility that a third force could have got between the army and shot at the protesters and us. Opposite us was one soi, and from where we were we would have seen such a force. Rang Naam would have been the only other possibility, if the military would not have had their bunkers a few meters off Soi Rang Naam, and could have shot these nonexistent unidentified gunmen during the 16 minutes continous fire until the badly injured Channarong managed to get out of the little tire barricade he was stuck in (the shooting, by the way continued intermittedly over the next few hours when we were stuck in the compound behind the gas station).

There was no rescue mission, and there was no news photographer accompanying the military who was shot. Chaiwat, the Nation photographer who was shot in the incident on the opposite side the road from me, came the same way as all of us photographers there - together with the protesters from Samliem Dindaeng. He has, by the way, already testified at court.

If this would have been a rescue mission, i wonder as well why the soldier who then helped pulling Channarong out of the little pond he slipped in, screamed at him (including expletatives), that he should die.

A detailed account i wrote during the night after i managed to get home from the incident, just google my name and "in the klilling zone".

As to evidence, forensic investigations of the bullet that killed Channarong have been performed. There is more evidence, such as bullet holes, etc, with clear trajectories, videos taken from several direction during the incident, and many witnesses, including several journalists, both Thai and foreign (including me, and i have already testified at court).

There were of course so called "Men in Black" during the 2010 violence who shot at soldiers - but not during this incident.

There were "unidentified" forces other than the army that shot at Red Shirts - but again, not during this particular incident.

This is about one incident - the death of Channarong Ponsrila, and the injuries of several others, including of one clearly identifiable journalist, and the "rebuttal", which is more than liberal with facts.

i'm sure the others here know better than you though, because other people besides the army can get these guns and, and those witnesses probably weren't even there and are getting paid to lie and yadda, yadda, yadda.

you were only there like and that doesn't count.

how much were you paid to lie?

Edited July 19, 2012 by nurofiend