Job Situation In Chiang Mai

[KhunLing]

I have been out of Thailand for about two years now.

My wife and I will return in a few months though.

I was just wondering what the present 'job situation' is like in Chiang Mai.

My wife is from CM + she has a house there + she has job offers back there in her own field. So, that's likely where we will go back. That's fine with me also as I love it there.

However, I realise also that it's probably the most difficult city for farangs to get teaching work. (I've lived for long periods in CM before)

My own background is that I am in my 30's. I have a BA + a PG TESOL from a University (A one year course). I've done a lot of volunteer teaching with adult migrants in Australia. I've also done a lot of tutoring with Thai Uni students.

I've had a couple of informal offers for work in Bangkok. Obviously, it's not hard to get work down there.

However, CM would be clearly the better option for the reasons listed above.

As my wife has a place + her own career...I wouldn't be in any desperate rush to get a job.

I could 'wait it out', so to speak, if that's what it takes.

I am more after opinion on what the situation is like in CM at the moment / how it's changed the past two years since I've been away.

Is the demand much higher? Are there more ajarns about? Have many new language schools opened? Is much work still available at CMU? Is it a matter of setting up base and waiting for vacancies for months?

Any opinion appreciated greatly

[Ijustwannateach]

You should ask PB (Peaceblondie)- he was a teacher up that way until quite recently.

"Steven"

[KhunLing]

Yeah, I've read his CM article over at Ajarn.com (Which was very good...but is a couple of years old I think). I also read a lot of his posts both here and there. I was going to PM him...didn't want to bother him though.

If you're reading this though PB...any thoughts???

Edited January 16, 2006 by KhunLing

[mbkudu]

You should ask PB (Peaceblondie)- he was a teacher up that way until quite recently.

"Steven"

Just curious, but did he move because he can make a lot more in the big city?

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I worked in Chaing Mai before, and I have recently came back. I think it's more a matter of being in the right place at the right time. If a language school is looking on the day you hand in your CV then you have a good chance.

I think that the private schools (Montfort, Dara, etc) are pickier than they used to be. A lot of them are now wanting more educational qualifications than a one month TEFL certificate.

That saying, it's easy enough to pick up some work - if you're not too fussy and don't worry about such trifling things as money, job satisfaction, etc...

Edited January 16, 2006 by Grant

[PeaceBlondie]

Grant, you hit it on the head. I'm amazed that Montfort (not a cheap school to attend) had a recent job offer, with tough qualifications, posted at only 23,000.

The original poster here has good qualifications. As Grant said, it's partly the luck of the draw.

If you don't mind working for 25,000, losing your job for no good reason, working hard and not getting all the proper rewards, being hassled over work permits, etc., Chiang Mai's a half-decent place for teaching English, and a great place to live, if you don't mind half the congestion, pollution and clamor that Bangkok has.

Nah, I didn't go to the big city; I'm a beach bum in Hua Hin.

In the two years I was there (May 03=July 05) I thought the salaries were increasing, but lately I'm not so sure. If you ever start seeing lots of 30K+ jobs posted on ajarn dot com or tefl asia dot com, it might mean salaries are increasing. The air pollution in the dry seasons is probably worse, and there's going to be ongoing major construction for years to come. It beats Bangkok, though.

The insanities of TEFL in Thailand, however, are probably as bad as ever. If you enjoy students and enjoy teaching, it may be worth it. Just don't try to make a professional, monetarily rewarding career out of it.

[KhunLing]

Cheers PB and Grant.

Very interesting. Are there many new language schools opening up? I'd heard there would be?

I am not overly worried about money / salary. I am far from rich...in fact, I'm much closer to broke . However, as I said before, my wife owns her house which means we don't have to pay rent.

When we have lived in CM before, I have found rent to be the major expense each month.

We've been married about 6 years now and a lot of her friends have become mine. When we are there, we tend to go out with them mainly / to Thai places. I.e. less expensive places / Thai prices.

Anything around 20 K should be plenty for me. I'd prefer higher obviously. It's hard to see wages going up to BKK levels ever though IMO.

I may look for part time work at first. Maybe one or two part time jobs. Is P/T work still easier to find than F/T?

Off topic, how is Hua Hin PB? I'd love to go there and live. It isn't possible though as my wife has her own career. I imagine it must be very relaxing down there...?

Grant...how is the pollution now in CM?

Five years ago, it wasn't so bad.

When we were last there two years back...it was pretty bad. I heard they got rid of the red trucks / have introduced buses...has this helped at all?

Edited January 16, 2006 by KhunLing

[meadish_sweetball]

Cheers PB and Grant.

Very interesting. Are there many new language schools opening up? I'd heard there would be?

I am not overly worried about money / salary. I am far from rich...in fact, I'm much closer to broke . However, as I said before, my wife owns her house which means we don't have to pay rent.

When we have lived in CM before, I have found rent to be the major expense each month.

We've been married about 6 years now and a lot of her friends have become mine. When we are there, we tend to go out with them mainly / to Thai places. I.e. less expensive places / Thai prices.

Anything around 20 K should be plenty for me. I'd prefer higher obviously. It's hard to see wages going up to BKK levels ever though IMO.

I may look for part time work at first. Maybe one or two part time jobs. Is P/T work still easier to find than F/T?

Off topic, how is Hua Hin PB? I'd love to go there and live. It isn't possible though as my wife has her own career. I imagine it must be very relaxing down there...?

Grant...how is the pollution now in CM?

Five years ago, it wasn't so bad.

When we were last there two years back...it was pretty bad. I heard they got rid of the red trucks / have introduced buses...has this helped at all?

According to the most recent studies I have seen, the traffic is not the main source of the air quality in CM, it is the burning of forested areas and trash as well as dust from construction projects. The introduction of the buses is a nice and long-awaited move, but has not meant any detectable change to the traffic situation so far.

[too true]

Loads of new language schools opening in Chiang Mai. From what I've heard, if you're British, King's College pays quite well. Thought Monfort and Wichai and those private bilingual program schools were paying above 30,000/month for degree and EFL qualifications. I know teachers at Wichai making 35,000/month.

If you're flexible it's very easy to find work.

If you're not keen on the language school thing, there are NGOs in Chiang Mai that occasionally need teachers. It's all about timing, but it's infinitely more interesting and rewarding than language school work.

Good luck.

TT

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Cheers PB and Grant.

Grant...how is the pollution now in CM?

Five years ago, it wasn't so bad.

When we were last there two years back...it was pretty bad. I heard they got rid of the red trucks / have introduced buses...has this helped at all?

The red trucks are all still here, only they have gone tp 15 baht now.

We went up to Phu Ping Palace last week and you could barely make out Chiang Mai through the smog.

[PeaceBlondie]

Last May, I got two part time offers: 10 hours per week in a matayom school in SARAPHI, with a pittance of a petrol allowance, at 200 stinkin' baht per hour; and a commercial college gig of 6 hours per week in Chiang Mai at 300 per hour. I took the 300/hour job, but the students were mostly beginners in English who stopped at ninth grade (M3). English First was hiring 1.5 years ago for 250 per hour, and didn't want me.

But somebody I knew who was making 250/hour in a language school almost 3 years ago is now making 50K or more, but he's the exception that tests the rule.

My guess is that salaries have been so low in CMai for so long, because it's hyped as a non-Bangkok paradise (by comparison), that the people who needed real survival salaries left long ago. So, now it's pensioners and folks married to real wage earners who teach there. Oh, there are maybe a few hundred folks getting over 33K - make that 85 people - but the rest are lucky to gross 330,000 baht per year, and even luckier to have proper paperwork. I never had a work permit, and worked at two of the oldest schools in Northern Thailand.

Hua Hin is beautiful, if you don't need to work. Come on by for a holiday.

[mbkudu]

[quote name='PeaceBlondie' date='2006-01-16 22:08:23' post='613903'

English First was hiring 1.5 years ago for 250 per hour, and didn't want me.

250 p/h? Eegads, that's pathetic. In 1991 as a green, completely unqualified newbie 'teacher' I was making this wage in Bangkok. If you do the simple math, that's 15 years ago. Sad indeed.

[KhunLing]

almost 3 years ago is now making 50K or more, but he's the exception that tests the rule.

My guess is that salaries have been so low in CMai for so long, because it's hyped as a non-Bangkok paradise (by comparison), that the people who needed real survival salaries left long ago. So, now it's pensioners and folks married to real wage earners who teach there. Oh, there are maybe a few hundred folks getting over 33K - make that 85 people - but the rest are lucky to gross 330,000 baht per year, and even luckier to have proper paperwork. I never had a work permit, and worked at two of the oldest schools in Northern Thailand.

Hua Hin is beautiful, if you don't need to work. Come on by for a holiday.

I know where you're coming from PB.

CM is definitely a place where you need some sort of 'back-up'.

A wife who works / a place to live / a second income is basically essential.

I have spoken to people about CM and I always empathise these points.

It's not like BKK. In BKK, you can set up / find a place and settle in. Worse case scenario if you lose your job / it becomes unbearable = get another job. In BKK that's very easy to do.

So...you're out of work a few days and there's no real drama in BKK.

In CM...lose your job etc and it can be very messy. Stuck with no money to pay rent and often it takes ages to find a new job. I don't think people realise that. I've met guys who say "I've just taken a 12 month contract on an apartment in CM...now, where should I look for work". They've come up and set up thinking it will be as easy as BKK.

If you don't find something you like...there goes the deposit on that apartment. Also, a 10 000 baht apartment doesn't leave much change from a 15 000 P/T wage.

[mbkudu]

A wife who works / a place to live / a second income is basically essential.

I know that you have been married for awhile and I assume that the two of you get along well, but I would never let myself become financially vulnerable or dependent on someone thinking that her job, her house and your pittance of a salary will always be a rosy cosy situation. You never know what can happen especially in a country that isn't your own where you don't own the place you live in. My Thai wife and I are in a marriage where we are both finacially stable and if push came to shove and we told each other to sod off, independently we'd both be fine financially. Fair is fair.

[too true]

almost 3 years ago is now making 50K or more, but he's the exception that tests the rule.

My guess is that salaries have been so low in CMai for so long, because it's hyped as a non-Bangkok paradise (by comparison), that the people who needed real survival salaries left long ago. So, now it's pensioners and folks married to real wage earners who teach there. Oh, there are maybe a few hundred folks getting over 33K - make that 85 people - but the rest are lucky to gross 330,000 baht per year, and even luckier to have proper paperwork. I never had a work permit, and worked at two of the oldest schools in Northern Thailand.

Hua Hin is beautiful, if you don't need to work. Come on by for a holiday.

I know where you're coming from PB.

CM is definitely a place where you need some sort of 'back-up'.

A wife who works / a place to live / a second income is basically essential.

I have spoken to people about CM and I always empathise these points.

It's not like BKK. In BKK, you can set up / find a place and settle in. Worse case scenario if you lose your job / it becomes unbearable = get another job. In BKK that's very easy to do.

So...you're out of work a few days and there's no real drama in BKK.

In CM...lose your job etc and it can be very messy. Stuck with no money to pay rent and often it takes ages to find a new job. I don't think people realise that. I've met guys who say "I've just taken a 12 month contract on an apartment in CM...now, where should I look for work". They've come up and set up thinking it will be as easy as BKK.

If you don't find something you like...there goes the deposit on that apartment. Also, a 10 000 baht apartment doesn't leave much change from a 15 000 P/T wage.

Like most things inThailand, it's all about networking. Get to know the right people and you're set. I still get language school owners and managers calling me to ask if I'm looking for work and it's been 2 years since I've done any language school work. A friend went around looking for some work and she's been offered jobs at 3 different schools that all pay 300/hour. Not great, I know, but the high paying teaching jobs aren't to be had at language schools, in Bangkok or Chiang Mai.

[KhunLing]

A wife who works / a place to live / a second income is basically essential.

I know that you have been married for awhile and I assume that the two of you get along well, but I would never let myself become financially vulnerable or dependent on someone thinking that her job, her house and your pittance of a salary will always be a rosy cosy situation. You never know what can happen especially in a country that isn't your own where you don't own the place you live in. My Thai wife and I are in a marriage where we are both finacially stable and if push came to shove and we told each other to sod off, independently we'd both be fine financially. Fair is fair.

I see where you're coming from. I didn't mean rely solely on your wife etc forever. I mainly meant that it 'helps' if you have a partner / base when you move somewhere. Well, that goes for anywhere...but particularly CM imo.

Yes...me and my mrs get along great. We are roughly the same age (35 / 33), been best mates for a decade / have tonnes in common. We've lived in Thailand and Australia. She's extremely close with my family...just as I am with hers.

If she ever did sod off...I'd have options anyway. I have qualifications + some savings + a lot of work references in Australia.

Mind you, the only way my wife would even consider knicking off would be if I hooked up with a 'mia noi'. Actually, she'd then kill me...so I wouldn't need to worry about the future anyway LOL

[cm das]

I've been teaching at a language school in cm for 2+ years now & I have many friends teaching at private schools. As far as I can tell, someone with a degree, TEFL qualification & teaching experience should have no problem finding work. As everyone has noted, the pay isn't great. However, i know many people teaching full-time with work permits who are relatively happy with their schools.

[KhunLing]

change from a 15 000 P/T wage.

Like most things inThailand, it's all about networking. Get to know the right people and you're set. I still get language school owners and managers calling me to ask if I'm looking for work and it's been 2 years since I've done any language school work. A friend went around looking for some work and she's been offered jobs at 3 different schools that all pay 300/hour. Not great, I know, but the high paying teaching jobs aren't to be had at language schools, in Bangkok or Chiang Mai.

Cheers for the advice TT. Cheers also SM Das and everyone. This is a good forum, I appreciate the help

[Ijustwannateach]

Yeah, unfortunately the availability of all these folks who DO have 2nd forms of support (retirement pensions, etc.) is what actually brings down the wages- if the demand were high but there was no supply, wages would have to increase to attract people. This effect is very slowly beginning to work in Bangkok (as even the dimmer EP programs are beginning to realise that you can't really get KSR teachers who can actually teach high school math or science); no doubt it will take another generation or so for Chiang Mai to follow.

"Steven"