Honda Phantom.......... Engine Change Fron 150 To 200. Possible?

[thequietman]

my 2 stroke 150 lacks in power especially up hill. can i buy a 200 cc and change them. is it straight forward or a big job?

anyone know the price of a 200 cc engine new or secondhand?

I only know how to ride a bike, nothing more. so be gentle please.

[barefoot1988]

no idea how hard it is but you might be disappointed. the 150 is quite abit more powerful than the 200cc. you probably need to find the proper range to ride in the powerband, 2 strokers pull stronger in the power band upper range. if you go uphill alot, you should probably look into a bigger rear sprocket

[Richard-BKK]

If memory serves me correct, the Honda Phantom 150 engine was a de-tuned NSR150 engine. So if you tune the engine to original NSR150 specs you should impress much bigger motorcycles.

[dave_boo]

I don't think that Richard's answer is going to suffice...unless you always want to be riding the 'upgraded' engine like you would the 'lil pocket rocket NSR150....not saying there's no power to be had, but to take it to a shop that specialises in older 2T bikes would probably net you a Phantom that would frankly suck to ride as you wouldn't be able to loaf around any more.

If you do a mild upgrade, why not go ahead and go smaller on the rear sprocket and spend more time in lower gears? Your overall economy would improve (you'd spend more fuel using a smaller rear sprocket) and with judicious selection of sprockets you could drop a gear going up hills and still not be revving to the moon to get 'er going.

[poanoi]

The 150 is 2-stroke while the 200 is 4-stroke, so you dont get more power.

But what i discovered while riding my friends phantom is that low gear/high rew is everything on phantom,

and the same goes for all small engines i presume.

In short, dont waste money on that, just stay in the lower gear longer, get your rev up before gear up

[JonnyF]

I'd agree with previous posts. 2 strokes are much more powerful cc for cc. A 150cc 2 stroke is 'roughly' the equivalent of a 250 4 stroke but the power characteristics are different.

In other words, to go from a 150cc 2 stroke to a 200cc 4 stroke would be a step down in power - not a step up.

Much cheaper, easier and more effective to get the 2 stroke running well and play around with the gearing.

[thequietman]

I'd agree with previous posts. 2 strokes are much more powerful cc for cc. A 150cc 2 stroke is 'roughly' the equivalent of a 250 4 stroke but the power characteristics are different.

In other words, to go from a 150cc 2 stroke to a 200cc 4 stroke would be a step down in power - not a step up.

Much cheaper, easier and more effective to get the 2 stroke running well and play around with the gearing.

ok, thanks, sounds good. I will stick with what I have

Is there anyway I can add something to stop it sounding like a hair dryer on speed. Maybe a new exhaust for a nice rumbly bubbly sound like a bigger bike ? Thanks in advance for all your inputs.

[Richard-BKK]

Honda NSR 150 SP Specifications

Model : NSR 150 SP

Engine type : single cylinder, two stroke

Engine size : 149cc

Bore x stroke : 59 x 54.5

Horsepower : 39.5 ps at 10,500 rpm

Torque : 2.75 kg-m at 10,000 rpm

Gearbox : 6 speed return

Ignition : Electronic CDI unit

Length : 1,970 mm

Width : 685 mm

Height : 1,060 mm

Wheelbase : 1,355 mm

Weight : 122.4 kg

Tire size : (F) 90/80-17, ® 120/80-17 or 130/80-17

Of course the maximum performance specs of 39.5 ps at 10,500 rpm are not very comfortable riding a cruiser style motorcycle like the Honda Phantom 150. But still you want performance, it's there. Also if you search a bit you can find overbore pistons for the Honda NSR 150. I once meet a Thai guy who told me he was using a 61.5mm piston in his Honda NSR 150 SP (162cc) and I had at some moments a hard time keeping up to him... The truth is that guy not only changed the bore of his cylinder, he also did more performance modifications, but what I say is that if you're looking for more performance you can find it in the Honda Phantom 150 engine.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Richard-BKK

[Dutchbike]

Everything is possible even fitting a V8 in a motorbike.( Boss Hog)

But to anwser the OP's question fitting a 200cc 4 stroke ( the lifan 200cc honda XL based engine would be a nice choice for a cruiser) of course you will loose topspeed and topend power but gain in torque ( what you want on a cruiser) I've red somewhere that a new crate Lifan 200cc engine was about 10.000thb.

But fitting it on the Phantom is quite a job, changing the engine mouting points on the frame ( proper line up of the frontsprocket- rearwheel) this means welding on the frame, so that has to be repainted.

Changing the main wire harness to make the connections with the new engine, and numerous small modifications. Since the OP only drives bikes, he will have to find a good bike shop which could to the job, and there's the issue with the paperwork, the green book has to be changed with the new engine number,i guess not easy to get that done.

so it's better not to attempt such a job, better save up some money, and trade it in for a 4 stroke cruiser.

With changing sprockets you can get better response, with a smaller rearsprocket, you can stay longer in the same gear, but when going uphill you will have to drop gears as soon the road goes up, a bigger rearsprocket means you will have to shift quicker through the gears,but you will have more power in the same gear ( rpm) then with a smaller rear sprocket.

A NSR ( detuned) engine just isn't the best engine for a cruiser.

Always funny to see those Honda specs from the NSR: 39.5 hp Honda really exagerated those figures, about 30 hp is more realistic.

[Richard-BKK]

Everything is possible even fitting a V8 in a motorbike.( Boss Hog)

But to anwser the OP's question fitting a 200cc 4 stroke ( the lifan 200cc honda XL based engine would be a nice choice for a cruiser) of course you will loose topspeed and topend power but gain in torque ( what you want on a cruiser) I've red somewhere that a new crate Lifan 200cc engine was about 10.000thb.

But fitting it on the Phantom is quite a job, changing the engine mouting points on the frame ( proper line up of the frontsprocket- rearwheel) this means welding on the frame, so that has to be repainted.

Changing the main wire harness to make the connections with the new engine, and numerous small modifications. Since the OP only drives bikes, he will have to find a good bike shop which could to the job, and there's the issue with the paperwork, the green book has to be changed with the new engine number,i guess not easy to get that done.

so it's better not to attempt such a job, better save up some money, and trade it in for a 4 stroke cruiser.

With changing sprockets you can get better response, with a smaller rearsprocket, you can stay longer in the same gear, but when going uphill you will have to drop gears as soon the road goes up, a bigger rearsprocket means you will have to shift quicker through the gears,but you will have more power in the same gear ( rpm) then with a smaller rear sprocket.

A NSR ( detuned) engine just isn't the best engine for a cruiser.

Always funny to see those Honda specs from the NSR: 39.5 hp Honda really exagerated those figures, about 30 hp is more realistic.

Reality is PS is not HP (horsepower)

Still the quoted Honda power of the NSR150 SP at 39.5 ps (Pferdestärke - German for horsepower, equal to metric horsepower and sometimes referred to as 'continental horsepower') converted to horsepower (imperial) it would be 38.95 hp. Still a bit high.... But give the guys a bit slack... even 30 hp is a good amount for a 122 kilogram motorcycle...

Most big bore's start to show tipping over if bored more than 2mm over the original diameter (bore).

Edited July 23, 2012 by Richard-BKK

[loserlazer]

Honda NSR 150 SP Specifications Model : NSR 150 SP Engine type : single cylinder, two stroke Engine size : 149cc Bore x stroke : 59 x 54.5 Horsepower : 39.5 ps at 10,500 rpm Torque : 2.75 kg-m at 10,000 rpm Gearbox : 6 speed return Ignition : Electronic CDI unit Length : 1,970 mm Width : 685 mm Height : 1,060 mm Wheelbase : 1,355 mm Weight : 122.4 kg Tire size : (F) 90/80-17, ® 120/80-17 or 130/80-17 Of course the maximum performance specs of 39.5 ps at 10,500 rpm are not very comfortable riding a cruiser style motorcycle like the Honda Phantom 150. But still you want performance, it's there. Also if you search a bit you can find overbore pistons for the Honda NSR 150. I once meet a Thai guy who told me he was using a 61.5mm piston in his Honda NSR 150 SP (162cc) and I had at some moments a hard time keeping up to him... The truth is that guy not only changed the bore of his cylinder, he also did more performance modifications, but what I say is that if you're looking for more performance you can find it in the Honda Phantom 150 engine.

yeaah, it is good performance but only for a very narrow band of 2000 rpm on high end revs on a straight with no pillion rider or wind. So, if you are climbing a hill etc with an nsr 150 especially on a higher altitude, it is hard man really under powered..besides, i cannot imagine a phantom 150 4 stroke on an nsr 150 hahaha. If the engine is not 2 stroke, what is exciting left from an nsr 150? Edited July 23, 2012 by loserlazer

[Richard-BKK]

Honda NSR 150 SP Specifications Model : NSR 150 SP Engine type : single cylinder, two stroke Engine size : 149cc Bore x stroke : 59 x 54.5 Horsepower : 39.5 ps at 10,500 rpm Torque : 2.75 kg-m at 10,000 rpm Gearbox : 6 speed return Ignition : Electronic CDI unit Length : 1,970 mm Width : 685 mm Height : 1,060 mm Wheelbase : 1,355 mm Weight : 122.4 kg Tire size : (F) 90/80-17, ® 120/80-17 or 130/80-17 Of course the maximum performance specs of 39.5 ps at 10,500 rpm are not very comfortable riding a cruiser style motorcycle like the Honda Phantom 150. But still you want performance, it's there. Also if you search a bit you can find overbore pistons for the Honda NSR 150. I once meet a Thai guy who told me he was using a 61.5mm piston in his Honda NSR 150 SP (162cc) and I had at some moments a hard time keeping up to him... The truth is that guy not only changed the bore of his cylinder, he also did more performance modifications, but what I say is that if you're looking for more performance you can find it in the Honda Phantom 150 engine.

yeaah, it is good performance but only for a very narrow band of 2000 rpm on high end revs on a straight with no pillion rider or wind. So, if you are climbing a hill etc with an nsr 150 especially on a higher altitude, it is hard man really under powered..besides, i cannot imagine a phantom 150 4 stroke on an nsr 150 hahaha. If the engine is not 2 stroke, what is exciting left from an nsr 150?

The Honda Phantom 150 and Honda NSR150 have "nearly" the same engine. Only difference is in timing and carburetor size... (I was told)

[loserlazer]

Honda NSR 150 SP Specifications Model : NSR 150 SP Engine type : single cylinder, two stroke Engine size : 149cc Bore x stroke : 59 x 54.5 Horsepower : 39.5 ps at 10,500 rpm Torque : 2.75 kg-m at 10,000 rpm Gearbox : 6 speed return Ignition : Electronic CDI unit Length : 1,970 mm Width : 685 mm Height : 1,060 mm Wheelbase : 1,355 mm Weight : 122.4 kg Tire size : (F) 90/80-17, ® 120/80-17 or 130/80-17 Of course the maximum performance specs of 39.5 ps at 10,500 rpm are not very comfortable riding a cruiser style motorcycle like the Honda Phantom 150. But still you want performance, it's there. Also if you search a bit you can find overbore pistons for the Honda NSR 150. I once meet a Thai guy who told me he was using a 61.5mm piston in his Honda NSR 150 SP (162cc) and I had at some moments a hard time keeping up to him... The truth is that guy not only changed the bore of his cylinder, he also did more performance modifications, but what I say is that if you're looking for more performance you can find it in the Honda Phantom 150 engine.

yeaah, it is good performance but only for a very narrow band of 2000 rpm on high end revs on a straight with no pillion rider or wind. So, if you are climbing a hill etc with an nsr 150 especially on a higher altitude, it is hard man really under powered..besides, i cannot imagine a phantom 150 4 stroke on an nsr 150 hahaha. If the engine is not 2 stroke, what is exciting left from an nsr 150?

The Honda Phantom 150 and Honda NSR150 have "nearly" the same engine. Only difference is in timing and carburetor size... (I was told)

and the number of strokes of course therefore all teh major components inside the engine.

Edited July 23, 2012 by loserlazer

[Richard-BKK]

Honda NSR 150 SP Specifications Model : NSR 150 SP Engine type : single cylinder, two stroke Engine size : 149cc Bore x stroke : 59 x 54.5 Horsepower : 39.5 ps at 10,500 rpm Torque : 2.75 kg-m at 10,000 rpm Gearbox : 6 speed return Ignition : Electronic CDI unit Length : 1,970 mm Width : 685 mm Height : 1,060 mm Wheelbase : 1,355 mm Weight : 122.4 kg Tire size : (F) 90/80-17, ® 120/80-17 or 130/80-17 Of course the maximum performance specs of 39.5 ps at 10,500 rpm are not very comfortable riding a cruiser style motorcycle like the Honda Phantom 150. But still you want performance, it's there. Also if you search a bit you can find overbore pistons for the Honda NSR 150. I once meet a Thai guy who told me he was using a 61.5mm piston in his Honda NSR 150 SP (162cc) and I had at some moments a hard time keeping up to him... The truth is that guy not only changed the bore of his cylinder, he also did more performance modifications, but what I say is that if you're looking for more performance you can find it in the Honda Phantom 150 engine.

yeaah, it is good performance but only for a very narrow band of 2000 rpm on high end revs on a straight with no pillion rider or wind. So, if you are climbing a hill etc with an nsr 150 especially on a higher altitude, it is hard man really under powered..besides, i cannot imagine a phantom 150 4 stroke on an nsr 150 hahaha. If the engine is not 2 stroke, what is exciting left from an nsr 150?

The Honda Phantom 150 and Honda NSR150 have "nearly" the same engine. Only difference is in timing and carburetor size... (I was told)

and the number of strokes of course therefore all teh major components inside the engine.

The engine of a Honda Phantom TA150 is a two-stroke....

[loserlazer]

oh my...i am mistaken.

Edited July 24, 2012 by loserlazer

[01322521959]

Just found your post and was wondering what you had done about your bike. I have been lucky enough to be lent a Thai mate's Phantom 150cc 2 stroke which I have fallen in love with in the space of 3 days. I love this engine, beautiful power delivery. Now I wonder what I should offer him for it...

[KRS1]

go one tooth smaller on front instead, its cheaper, faster to change and your chain wont have to be adjusted as far back.

Pirelli Diablo Rosso 2 tires are also lighter than the equivalent IRC range.

You can also adjust the air screw to make it run a little leaner.

Edited October 19, 2013 by KRS1

[KRS1]

Just found your post and was wondering what you had done about your bike. I have been lucky enough to be lent a Thai mate's Phantom 150cc 2 stroke which I have fallen in love with in the space of 3 days. I love this engine, beautiful power delivery. Now I wonder what I should offer him for it...

the 150cc are the first generation bikes and kind of old, 22000-28000 baht is about the going rate from a private owner in excellent condition.

Dealers will try to get 35000-40000 out of you.

[Shurup]

Just found your post and was wondering what you had done about your bike. I have been lucky enough to be lent a Thai mate's Phantom 150cc 2 stroke which I have fallen in love with in the space of 3 days. I love this engine, beautiful power delivery. Now I wonder what I should offer him for it...

I would reconsider... why buy it if you're already wondering about power mods(???)

[AllanB]

The big problem with all Phantom engines is the lack of torque, it is a big heavy bike and being a heavy farang doesn't help. Torque is the key to rider satisfaction here, in a country where speed is not that important, Phantom, a frustrating bike is built for show, not go..

There are lots of Phantoms in Thailand and someone needs to import a job lot of Enfield 350, or 500's from Indian and convert the whole lot. But that is not going to happen, so move upmarket as I did and buy an old 400.

The big problem with all 2 strokes it that you have to rev the <deleted> off them to go anywhere, not nice in town and not relaxing on a run either. The 200 is not much better, with constant gear shifting necessary, they call these bike "cruisers", not so.

The Phantom is a "live and learn" bike, you live with it and learn that it is woefully lacking. You are quite right that it needs a transplant, but what with the green book issues and lack of engines, it ain"`t worth it, save your pennies and move upmarket.

If you want something faster up hills, you already have them, they are called legs.

Edited October 21, 2013 by AllanB

[billd766]

The big problem with all Phantom engines is the lack of torque, it is a big heavy bike and being a heavy farang doesn't help. Torque is the key to rider satisfaction here, in a country where speed is not that important, Phantom, a frustrating bike is built for show, not go..

There are lots of Phantoms in Thailand and someone needs to import a job lot of Enfield 350, or 500's from Indian and convert the whole lot. But that is not going to happen, so move upmarket as I did and buy an old 400.

The big problem with all 2 strokes it that you have to rev the <deleted> off them to go anywhere, not nice in town and not relaxing on a run either. The 200 is not much better, with constant gear shifting necessary, they call these bike "cruisers", not so.

The Phantom is a "live and learn" bike, you live with it and learn that it is woefully lacking. You are quite right that it needs a transplant, but what with the green book issues and lack of engines, it ain"`t worth it, save your pennies and move upmarket.

If you want something faster up hills, you already have them, they are called legs.

I have had my 2005 Phantom 200cc over 4 years now and I knew when I bought it that it was not a pocket rocket.

On the other hand it has taken me nearly 40,000 km around Thailand and only died on me a couple of times, once when the battery gave up but it was 4 years old and once the spark plug went intermittent on me.

It gets regularly serviced with an oil change every 2,000 km plus the other services.

It took me to Bangkok and back in the same day nearly 800km through sun on the way down and a thunderstorm on the way back at night and never missed a beat. I weigh over 120 kg and the bike just keeps on going albeit not at warp factor speeds. On the roads I can cruise around 90 to 100 kph and if I need to change down then I have a choice of 6 gears to play with. Once I am running I normaly only use 6th and 5th gears and drop into 4th sometimes. In the city it is 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

If you want to go faster then there are lots of Honda CBR 150s and 250s out there which are reasonably priced but not as comfortable.

I even got T-boned in Nakhon Sawan a couple of years ago and after bending the handlebars "more or less straight" I rode it 125 km back home.

The good thing about the Phantom is that parts are not expensive, easily available and most "Somchais" can fix them.

AllanB suggests importing Enfields from India but who would sell them, how much would they cost bearing in mind import taxes and who would fix them. There are Honda dealers in most Thai villages of any size.

As for torque I look after a Honda CB400 4 cylinder for my mate and that is a pocket rocket. The problem is that nothing really happens until you get past about 8,000 rpm and then it rally lights up right to the red line at 12,500 rpm and it goes like hot snot but to be honest I have taken it up to 150 kph and it frightened me a little. Great bike on a good road but crap for cruising.