Fake Document Got Abhisit His Military Job, Defence Ministry Says

[Reasonableman]

You might consider switching forums, like one more oriented to BP, or some 'free for all' forums where there is no need to restrict oneself to what others tell you is within bounds

I like The Nation personally.

Its like a blind old clumsy sheepdog that walks into walls, its not very smart and it makes a mess every day, but it is loyal to the end, and sometimes it jumps up on to the bed in the morning and gives me a big drooling kiss.

yea then s**ts all over the bed

Colorful, but redundant .... "it makes a mess every day" probably covered it adequately.

[binjalin]

Guys,

If you have been here any length of time, you certainly know of similar situations...

My wife's original Birth Certificate was lost in a house fire - the legal & official replacement is incorrect.

A friend, born here. legally adopted by his foreign father and raised abroad, has provided certified copies to regain his Thai citizenship, but no local records can be found...

My oldest son's records have the date the birth was registered as his official birthday, an error of a few weeks...

but it's not the same - he was born and raised in England and educated at Eton and Oxford and I'm sure he and his family are bright enough to get his docs right... right?

[Reasonableman]

Guys,

If you have been here any length of time, you certainly know of similar situations...

My wife's original Birth Certificate was lost in a house fire - the legal & official replacement is incorrect.

A friend, born here. legally adopted by his foreign father and raised abroad, has provided certified copies to regain his Thai citizenship, but no local records can be found...

My oldest son's records have the date the birth was registered as his official birthday, an error of a few weeks...

Yes, i heard that answer "mai mii (no have)" quite often. It translates as i don't know where it could be and/or i am too lazy to looking/searching for it.

In most cases the thing i was requesting was available, just needed some little more afford to get or to access it.

My wife's ID is one year out because her parents didn't register her birth - the same situation with someone else I met. Bearing in mind the relatively few Thais I know, what proportion of Thai nationals have correct birth certificates/IDs?

Perhaps documentation isn't a Thai strong-point. Perhaps it's not an issue until.............

are you crazy? Eton educated? Oxford? and you think they got the docs wrong? this is NOT a 'normal' Thai it's an English born and bred person please don't try and make out that 'you know a Thai who had their docs mucked up' there is NO correlation. Docs might not be a Thai strong point but he wasn't born in Thailand and was not raised or educated here.

Another desperate frotherie. That reminds me, a nice hazelnut capuccino would go down well about now...

[OzMick]

are you crazy? Eton educated? Oxford? and you think they got the docs wrong? this is NOT a 'normal' Thai it's an English born and bred person please don't try and make out that 'you know a Thai who had their docs mucked up' there is NO correlation. Docs might not be a Thai strong point but he wasn't born in Thailand and was not raised or educated here.

Both the original deferment document and its replacement would have been issued in Thailand. Being born and educated abroad doesn't reduce your claim to Thai citizenship, or excuse you from National service.

Edited July 21, 2012 by OzMick

[Noistar]

Guys,

If you have been here any length of time, you certainly know of similar situations...

My wife's original Birth Certificate was lost in a house fire - the legal & official replacement is incorrect.

A friend, born here. legally adopted by his foreign father and raised abroad, has provided certified copies to regain his Thai citizenship, but no local records can be found...

My oldest son's records have the date the birth was registered as his official birthday, an error of a few weeks...

Yes, i heard that answer "mai mii (no have)" quite often. It translates as i don't know where it could be and/or i am too lazy to looking/searching for it.

In most cases the thing i was requesting was available, just needed some little more afford to get or to access it.

My wife's ID is one year out because her parents didn't register her birth - the same situation with someone else I met. Bearing in mind the relatively few Thais I know, what proportion of Thai nationals have correct birth certificates/IDs?

Perhaps documentation isn't a Thai strong-point. Perhaps it's not an issue until.............

are you crazy? Eton educated? Oxford? and you think they got the docs wrong? this is NOT a 'normal' Thai it's an English born and bred person please don't try and make out that 'you know a Thai who had their docs mucked up' there is NO correlation. Docs might not be a Thai strong point but he wasn't born in Thailand and was not raised or educated here.

whoa - jai yen yen. I didn't say they got the docs wrong, I merely pointed out that it's not unusual (or should I say, doesn't appear to be unusual)

Do I have to quote Phiphidon? Can you prove that 'there is NO correlation'? I agree there SHOULD be 'NO correlation'. I wouldn't bet a lot of money on there BEING 'NO correlation', if Thailand is involved. (No disrespect to Thailand)

[thaicbr]

What I dont understand is WHY and HOW the current defense minister found these documents now. No one could find them the last time they looked. Strange that no journalist is asking questions. Oh I forgot this is Thailand they dont have investigating journalists

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[Noistar]

If it had been a PTP MP in the same situation would the anti-government posters on here give him the same slack?

As a neutral, can I ask 'is that a rhetorical question?'

Or perhaps you know the answer and can pass it on

[w11guy]

I think most people would lie to get a job. Nothing wrong with that in most cases.

[GiHadOrange]

Guys,

If you have been here any length of time, you certainly know of similar situations...

My wife's original Birth Certificate was lost in a house fire - the legal & official replacement is incorrect.

A friend, born here. legally adopted by his foreign father and raised abroad, has provided certified copies to regain his Thai citizenship, but no local records can be found...

My oldest son's records have the date the birth was registered as his official birthday, an error of a few weeks...

Yes, i heard that answer "mai mii (no have)" quite often. It translates as i don't know where it could be and/or i am too lazy to looking/searching for it.

In most cases the thing i was requesting was available, just needed some little more afford to get or to access it.

My wife's ID is one year out because her parents didn't register her birth - the same situation with someone else I met. Bearing in mind the relatively few Thais I know, what proportion of Thai nationals have correct birth certificates/IDs?

Perhaps documentation isn't a Thai strong-point. Perhaps it's not an issue until.............

Remember these immigration cards you fill out. They are all kept and stored somewhere and someone is busy to record all the data into a book.

In Thailands bureaucracy is obsessed with paperwork, employs thousands of people for wearing fancy uniform in office and doing nothing else then to shuffle that kind of paperwork and documents.

Everything is somewhere archived. And before they will destroy some of the older files they will rather make additional copies of it.

The issue is to access these archives. Non of the clerks while busy with shuffling some documents likes to leave his desk and goes down to the archive. And if you are just an average Somchai and speak to the person at the office whos sole responsibility is to put a stamp on everything you will get mai mii as answer to a specific request.

But Abhisit isn't the average Somchai and they where probably looking longer than just five minutes for his files before they concluded: mai mii.

[geriatrickid]

I haven't commented on the validity of the accusations because I think it is best to allow the investigation to run its course.

However, I think that if if the allegation is true, then it will explain why Mr. Abhisit has always been so submissive with the military: They had him by the balls on this. Had he done anything they didn't like, they would have squashed him with this. Now that there is a government in place that is somewhat more independent than the previous government(s), the allegation can be pursued. The end result is that the man's reputation has been damaged beyond repair. The allegation hits hard at the very core of principles that Mr. Abhisit claimed he represented: Integrity and honesty.

In any case, the man is entitled to a a thorough investigation first to determine if the allegation is valid. if it is valid, then he can then do the right thing and resign. It will also be interesting to see if Mr. Korn has any skeletons in his closet. Although the fingers are pointed at the UDD on this, I don't think they are alone. I sense a political battle for control of the Democrats and there may be some looking to advance their positions with the removal of Mr. Abhisit. Politics make for strange bedfellows.

[Reasonableman]

I haven't commented on the validity of the accusations because I think it is best to allow the investigation to run its course.

However, I think that if if the allegation is true, then it will explain why Mr. Abhisit has always been so submissive with the military: They had him by the balls on this. Had he done anything they didn't like, they would have squashed him with this. Now that there is a government in place that is somewhat more independent than the previous government(s), the allegation can be pursued. The end result is that the man's reputation has been damaged beyond repair. The allegation hits hard at the very core of principles that Mr. Abhisit claimed he represented: Integrity and honesty.

In any case, the man is entitled to a a thorough investigation first to determine if the allegation is valid.

if it is valid, then he can then do the right thing and resign. It will also be interesting to see if Mr. Korn has any skeletons in his closet. Although the fingers are pointed at the UDD on this, I don't think they are alone. I sense a political battle for control of the Democrats and there may be some looking to advance their positions with the removal of Mr. Abhisit. Politics make for strange bedfellows.

Gk, are you sure you've got the sequencing right? You seem a bit confused.

_The end result_ is that the man's reputation has been damaged beyond repair. The _allegation_ hits hard at the very core of principles that Mr. Abhisit claimed he represented: Integrity and honesty.

Followed by...

In any case, the man is entitled to a a thorough investigation _ first _ to determine _ if _ the allegation is valid.

Seems you've jumped to the conclusions and recommendations before conducting the experiment and studying the results. Are you confused, or is it just me?

Edited July 21, 2012 by Reasonableman

[attento]

An amusing but unimportant revelation. Daft dodging? I wonder how many USA politocos did that very same thing in their day ?

No-one can excuse it, if it was true, but is now of no consequence.

Smearing history does not help the current life in Thailand, one little bit.

Message to political incumbents " Concentrate on the good things you can do to help your country, rather than the negative in others which have no impact on current life "

" You were elected to change the future, not to play with the past ! "

and ....

One cannot expect the Thai polticians to be familar with The Holy Bible, St John, Chapter 8, Verse 7.

[Reasonableman]

"Daft dodging", sounds just like being a poster here on TV ;-)

[rubl]

I haven't commented on the validity of the accusations because I think it is best to allow the investigation to run its course.

However, I think that if if the allegation is true, then it will explain why Mr. Abhisit has always been so submissive with the military: They had him by the balls on this. Had he done anything they didn't like, they would have squashed him with this. Now that there is a government in place that is somewhat more independent than the previous government(s), the allegation can be pursued. The end result is that the man's reputation has been damaged beyond repair. The allegation hits hard at the very core of principles that Mr. Abhisit claimed he represented: Integrity and honesty.

In any case, the man is entitled to a a thorough investigation first to determine if the allegation is valid. if it is valid, then he can then do the right thing and resign. It will also be interesting to see if Mr. Korn has any skeletons in his closet. Although the fingers are pointed at the UDD on this, I don't think they are alone. I sense a political battle for control of the Democrats and there may be some looking to advance their positions with the removal of Mr. Abhisit. Politics make for strange bedfellows.

If true 'no balls Abhisit':

"2. © Comment: Abhisit\’s willingness to confront the military — to which many commentators assume he is beholden – on a procurement issue with operational implications, two areas traditionally seen as military prerogatives, serves as the latest indication of his growing confidence as Prime Minister."

http://thaicables.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/10bangkok478-thailand-gt200-bomb-detector-failure-ignites-discussion-on-civil-mil-relations-human-rights-procurement/

If not true, ... ... apologies all around ? Innocent till judged guilty? Reached term of litigation, but morally condemnable? Totally innocent?

BTW 'political battle for control of the Democrats'? Unbelievable, they're bound for eradication, don't you know

[geriatrickid]

I haven't commented on the validity of the accusations because I think it is best to allow the investigation to run its course.

However, I think that if if the allegation is true, then it will explain why Mr. Abhisit has always been so submissive with the military: They had him by the balls on this. Had he done anything they didn't like, they would have squashed him with this. Now that there is a government in place that is somewhat more independent than the previous government(s), the allegation can be pursued. The end result is that the man's reputation has been damaged beyond repair. The allegation hits hard at the very core of principles that Mr. Abhisit claimed he represented: Integrity and honesty.

In any case, the man is entitled to a a thorough investigation first to determine if the allegation is valid.

if it is valid, then he can then do the right thing and resign. It will also be interesting to see if Mr. Korn has any skeletons in his closet. Although the fingers are pointed at the UDD on this, I don't think they are alone. I sense a political battle for control of the Democrats and there may be some looking to advance their positions with the removal of Mr. Abhisit. Politics make for strange bedfellows.

Gk, are you sure you've got the sequencing right? You seem a bit confused.

_The end result_ is that the man's reputation has been damaged beyond repair. The _allegation_ hits hard at the very core of principles that Mr. Abhisit claimed he represented: Integrity and honesty.

Followed by...

In any case, the man is entitled to a a thorough investigation _ first _ to determine _ if _ the allegation is valid.

Seems you've jumped to the conclusions and recommendations before conducting the experiment and studying the results. Are you confused, or is it just me?

No. The allegation is damaging enough. It's all about perceptions. I am aware of no other PM or serving cabinet minister in the last decade ever had such an allegation levelled against him. No one would have dared. this is why some damage has been done. It is an indication of the erosion of position and power. There were some subjects that were taboo.

[geriatrickid]

If true 'no balls Abhisit':

"2. © Comment: Abhisit\’s willingness to confront the military — to which many commentators assume he is beholden – on a procurement issue with operational implications, two areas traditionally seen as military prerogatives, serves as the latest indication of his growing confidence as Prime Minister."

http://thaicables.wo...ts-procurement/

If not true, ... ... apologies all around ? Innocent till judged guilty? Reached term of litigation, but morally condemnable? Totally innocent?

BTW 'political battle for control of the Democrats'? Unbelievable, they're bound for eradication, don't you know

Politics is a nasty aggressive business with various groups jockeying for position and control. No political party is immune. If you think that Abhisit has a firm grip on the Democrats, then I think you are mistaken. The knives come out when a political party loses an election and is moribound. MPs and senior officials will always grumble and say what if XXX was leader, or we would have done better with YYY. It is the nature of politics.

I am certain there are some people in the Democrats hoping for Abhisit's departure, just as there are those that would like a shot at having more power in the other political parties.

[Reasonableman]

I haven't commented on the validity of the accusations because I think it is best to allow the investigation to run its course.

However, I think that if if the allegation is true, then it will explain why Mr. Abhisit has always been so submissive with the military: They had him by the balls on this. Had he done anything they didn't like, they would have squashed him with this. Now that there is a government in place that is somewhat more independent than the previous government(s), the allegation can be pursued. The end result is that the man's reputation has been damaged beyond repair. The allegation hits hard at the very core of principles that Mr. Abhisit claimed he represented: Integrity and honesty.

In any case, the man is entitled to a a thorough investigation first to determine if the allegation is valid.

if it is valid, then he can then do the right thing and resign. It will also be interesting to see if Mr. Korn has any skeletons in his closet. Although the fingers are pointed at the UDD on this, I don't think they are alone. I sense a political battle for control of the Democrats and there may be some looking to advance their positions with the removal of Mr. Abhisit. Politics make for strange bedfellows.

Gk, are you sure you've got the sequencing right? You seem a bit confused.

_The end result_ is that the man's reputation has been damaged beyond repair. The _allegation_ hits hard at the very core of principles that Mr. Abhisit claimed he represented: Integrity and honesty.

Followed by...

In any case, the man is entitled to a a thorough investigation _ first _ to determine _ if _ the allegation is valid.

Seems you've jumped to the conclusions and recommendations before conducting the experiment and studying the results. Are you confused, or is it just me?

No. The allegation is damaging enough. It's all about perceptions. I am aware of no other PM or serving cabinet minister in the last decade ever had such an allegation levelled against him. No one would have dared. this is why some damage has been done. It is an indication of the erosion of position and power. There were some subjects that were taboo.

Gratuitous mudslinging and pointscoring is nothing new here or elsewhere in politics. Its often a sign of desperation and scraping the bottom of the barrel to find anything to damage the opposition. I think you're making far too much of it. Anyway, let's see how it pans out.

[rubl]

Gk, are you sure you've got the sequencing right? You seem a bit confused.

_The end result_ is that the man's reputation has been damaged beyond repair. The _allegation_ hits hard at the very core of principles that Mr. Abhisit claimed he represented: Integrity and honesty.

Followed by...

In any case, the man is entitled to a a thorough investigation _ first _ to determine _ if _ the allegation is valid.

Seems you've jumped to the conclusions and recommendations before conducting the experiment and studying the results. Are you confused, or is it just me?

No. The allegation is damaging enough. It's all about perceptions. I am aware of no other PM or serving cabinet minister in the last decade ever had such an allegation levelled against him. No one would have dared. this is why some damage has been done. It is an indication of the erosion of position and power. There were some subjects that were taboo.

Allegation, perception? I'm a bit confused here, dear gK. Somehow it seems you are suggesting that the alleged falsification of a document which still needs to be proven to have been ordered/perpetrated/done by k. Abhisit (ADD: or even having been done), the alleged act resulting in a diminishing of position and power is purely to be blamed on k. Abhisit? Making things worse, those doubts were taboo and you seem to condone that?

Edited July 21, 2012 by rubl

[hellodolly]

Up until now the discovery of his having submitted a forged document was the only thing lacking in his background to qualify him for success in the Thai political arena.

Unfortunately, he hasn't had much success. The Demcorat party under his leadership never won a mandate in an election. perhaps if the man had done his military service or had worked in the private sector and gained some experience, he might have had some success.

Ya like Thaksin and his clone.

Nice home in Dubai four different citizenship's and unlimited opportunities for Photo ops. Real winning qualities. Must make you jealous

[rubl]

If true 'no balls Abhisit':

"2. © Comment: Abhisit\’s willingness to confront the military — to which many commentators assume he is beholden – on a procurement issue with operational implications, two areas traditionally seen as military prerogatives, serves as the latest indication of his growing confidence as Prime Minister."

http://thaicables.wo...ts-procurement/

If not true, ... ... apologies all around ? Innocent till judged guilty? Reached term of litigation, but morally condemnable? Totally innocent?

BTW 'political battle for control of the Democrats'? Unbelievable, they're bound for eradication, don't you know

Politics is a nasty aggressive business with various groups jockeying for position and control. No political party is immune. If you think that Abhisit has a firm grip on the Democrats, then I think you are mistaken. The knives come out when a political party loses an election and is moribound. MPs and senior officials will always grumble and say what if XXX was leader, or we would have done better with YYY. It is the nature of politics.

I am certain there are some people in the Democrats hoping for Abhisit's departure, just as there are those that would like a shot at having more power in the other political parties.

"political party loses an election and is moribound"? Surely not moribound, just bound to be eradicated democratically by opponents

As for the other political parties, some like a shot a having more power? Probably you're not referring to Phue Thai 'Thaksin thinks, we act' party?

[hellodolly]

I haven't commented on the validity of the accusations because I think it is best to allow the investigation to run its course.

However, I think that if if the allegation is true, then it will explain why Mr. Abhisit has always been so submissive with the military: They had him by the balls on this. Had he done anything they didn't like, they would have squashed him with this. Now that there is a government in place that is somewhat more independent than the previous government(s), the allegation can be pursued. The end result is that the man's reputation has been damaged beyond repair. The allegation hits hard at the very core of principles that Mr. Abhisit claimed he represented: Integrity and honesty.

In any case, the man is entitled to a a thorough investigation first to determine if the allegation is valid.

if it is valid, then he can then do the right thing and resign. It will also be interesting to see if Mr. Korn has any skeletons in his closet. Although the fingers are pointed at the UDD on this, I don't think they are alone. I sense a political battle for control of the Democrats and there may be some looking to advance their positions with the removal of Mr. Abhisit. Politics make for strange bedfellows.

Gk, are you sure you've got the sequencing right? You seem a bit confused.

_The end result_ is that the man's reputation has been damaged beyond repair. The _allegation_ hits hard at the very core of principles that Mr. Abhisit claimed he represented: Integrity and honesty.

Followed by...

In any case, the man is entitled to a a thorough investigation _ first _ to determine _ if _ the allegation is valid.

Seems you've jumped to the conclusions and recommendations before conducting the experiment and studying the results. Are you confused, or is it just me?

No. The allegation is damaging enough. It's all about perceptions. I am aware of no other PM or serving cabinet minister in the last decade ever had such an allegation levelled against him. No one would have dared. this is why some damage has been done. It is an indication of the erosion of position and power. There were some subjects that were taboo.

So what you are saying it makes no difference who is in power.

The constant search for allegations no matter how trivial they are is important. Running a country in such a manner as to improve the life of all it's citizen's comes second now.

[Dap]

ahhh who cares?

it doesn't matter to people on here what golden boy abhisit has ever done.

it makes no difference, he's still the shining example of honesty and integrity and all that's right with thai politics... amirite guys, who's with me?

high five.

Or for that matter, what your own "Golden Boy" has ever done, it will make no difference to yourselves what anyone says. Bottom line ... Mexican Stand-off

Edited July 21, 2012 by Dap

[nurofiend]

ahhh who cares?

it doesn't matter to people on here what golden boy abhisit has ever done.

it makes no difference, he's still the shining example of honesty and integrity and all that's right with thai politics... amirite guys, who's with me?

high five.

Or for that matter, what your own "Golden Boy" has ever done, it will make no difference to yourselves what anyone says. Bottom line ... Mexican Stand-off

if by that you mean thaksin...you can go through my post history if you want to see how much i think of him as a "golden boy"

he's far from it...

[rubl]

ahhh who cares?

it doesn't matter to people on here what golden boy abhisit has ever done.

it makes no difference, he's still the shining example of honesty and integrity and all that's right with thai politics... amirite guys, who's with me?

high five.

Or for that matter, what your own "Golden Boy" has ever done, it will make no difference to yourselves what anyone says. Bottom line ... Mexican Stand-off

if by that you mean thaksin...you can go through my post history if you want to see how much i think of him as a "golden boy"

he's far from it...

Clear, duly noted. Thank you for your co-operation

[animatic]

"Daft dodging", sounds just like being a poster here on TV ;-)

Right, such and apropos observation.

He was in a military school teaching, rather than walking a post.

Doesn't sound like he didn't serve the military. Sounds like he did

what he was better qualified to do, that served the army the best.

And remember this is 'a missed date' on a replacement document.

This is not a clear cut forgery as alleged by some with biases here,

it's clearly a bureaucratic screw up, as is not unusual at all.

Edited July 21, 2012 by animatic

[nurofiend]

no matter how much abhisit was knowingly involved, he'll be cleared.

that's my prediction.

[rubl]

no matter how much abhisit was knowingly involved, he'll be cleared.

that's my prediction.

No matter his innocence, he'll be condemned. That's my prediction

[Reasonableman]

no matter how much abhisit was knowingly involved, he'll be cleared.

that's my prediction.

What does "no matter how much he was knowingly involved" mean? Known by whom? By the courts, by the man himself, by rumor and innuendo, or what? In your justice system he's guilty until proven innocent (or guilty), and then he's still automatically guilty, whatever the outcome. Thank god you don't run the justice system.

[nurofiend]

no matter how much abhisit was knowingly involved, he'll be cleared.

that's my prediction.

What does "no matter how much he was knowingly involved" mean? Known by whom? By the courts, by the man himself, by rumor and innuendo, or what? In your justice system he's guilty until proven innocent (or guilty), and then he's still automatically guilty, whatever the outcome. Thank god you don't run the justice system.

'reasonableman' i'm growing very tired of you putting words in my mouth.

no matter how much... means he could have been completely oblivious to any forgeries and illegal actions or he could have been up to his eyeballs in it.

i think the ultimate official line that we'll end up hearing, is that he did nothing wrong.

it was a prediction.... nothing more.

[nurofiend]

no matter how much abhisit was knowingly involved, he'll be cleared.

that's my prediction.

No matter his innocence, he'll be condemned. That's my prediction

so does that mean you think the official line will be that he was actively involved in the forgery?

Edited July 21, 2012 by nurofiend