Backpackers Are Great Asset For Chiang Mai

[hellodolly]

Someone needs to blaze the trail to new places and ideas. The 3-day package tourist is not going to do that. Once the interesting place has been found, mapped and written about often enough, and 'comfortable and safe' accommodations established for getting there easily, staying there, and leaving 'on time,' then it's time for the rest of the traveling population to follow. I know that my parents would NOT have even walked in the door of some of the places I used as guest houses around Asia. When the 7pm train didn't show up at the station in Kota Bahru, my parents would not have thought to just spread a sarong on the floor of the station and go to sleep until it did arrive... about 4am. They would have been frantic, worrying why the train was late. It wasn't 'late.' It just didn't arrive yet... The backpack traveler enjoys the traveling as much as the destination. The 3-day package tourist is only concerned with arriving on time, being taken by the hand to see the sights, sleeping in a clean room with solid locks on the door, and leaving in time to make the next flight.

The City Fathers really do care about the growth of their towns. Chiang Mai had far more backpacker guest houses than 3-star hotels in the past, which was a good thing while the area was growing. At night, the bar girls on Loi Kraw drew in the men. The City Fathers don't care for that sort of trade, so blatantly visible. We all realize that the Farang sex tourists only account for less than 20% of the Thai sex industry, but it's a very VISIBLE percentage, consisting of a majority of those same backpack tourists. So... what to do about it? Their answer is to cater to the 3-day package tourist instead. The big-money tourist attractions don't suffer because they can cater to the tour buses. But the average ex-pat living in the area doesn't visit those tourist venues. We see only the local Farang bars having fewer and fewer patrons as the backpackers head to easier pickings, and not the expensive tourist sites drawing in big money. So the real question is; is Thailand really shooting itself in the foot? It is losing money from the backpacker trade but gaining from the package tour business. I'd love to see the actual dollar figures to be able to know the bottom line...

Totally agree with you. Never did any backpacking myself but always liked the idea. When I first came to Thailand I had no idea of what I was getting into so I had a back pack with a zip on bag for all my stuff. It had wheels in case I got into a area where I would not have to carry it. That was seven years ago. Long after the back packers had come here and opened up new areas to the suitcase travelers. Got to admit being over 60 and a little bit crippled I was awfully glad they had been here and done what they did to open the country up to people like me. Been here 7 years now and would have no problem going into a little village with just a guest house. I wonder how many of the people who look down their noses at back packers would be here if the back packers had never come here.

As for the dollar figures being the bottom line I think that would be hard to come by. It would depend on what time of the year and are you talking about all red light districts or just Farong districts.

Plus are there new areas for the three day tourist opening up by the back packers?

[hellodolly]

These days a backpack traveler has to have an onward ticket just to get into Thailand at many border crossings! Renew visa once, and then move on. Can't come back for at least six months.

These days, it's easier for that sort of backpack traveler to wander around Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, India, even Malaysia! Vietnam is the new backpacker destination because the infrastructure has made it comfortable for that sort of travel. It's no longer comfortable in LOS for the 'wanderer.' Now you need a plan... an itinerary... and a ticket out.

Thailand is famous for shooting itself in the foot.

You talk as if Thailand is the only country that shoots itself in the foot. Have you checked into the requirements for unlimited back packing in other countries. Some of them you even have to get a visa for before you can enter the country. Makes no difference which country you are in they all have regulations. Some enforce them more than others some are harder to get in. They all have their draw backs. And I am sure they all have people living out side the rules. All though it is a little harder to do in some countries it is easy to do in Thailand.

I am told that as friendly as Australia is to back packers if they show up with out a visa they will not be accepted. Just what I have heard.

[Ulysses G.]

I am told that as friendly as Australia is to back packers if they show up with out a visa they will not be accepted. Just what I have heard.

While that is true, the visa is free and if I remember correctly, you can do it by telephone or online. There are not a lot of excuses for showing up without one.

[necronx99]

I am told that as friendly as Australia is to back packers if they show up with out a visa they will not be accepted. Just what I have heard.

While that is true, the visa is free and if I remember correctly, you can do it by telephone or online. There are not a lot of excuses for showing up without one.

We like backpackers in Oz because they pick all our fruit for us.

[edwinclapham]

These days a backpack traveler has to have an onward ticket just to get into Thailand at many border crossings! Renew visa once, and then move on. Can't come back for at least six months.

These days, it's easier for that sort of backpack traveler to wander around Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, India, even Malaysia! Vietnam is the new backpacker destination because the infrastructure has made it comfortable for that sort of travel. It's no longer comfortable in LOS for the 'wanderer.' Now you need a plan... an itinerary... and a ticket out.

Thailand is famous for shooting itself in the foot.

You talk as if Thailand is the only country that shoots itself in the foot. Have you checked into the requirements for unlimited back packing in other countries. Some of them you even have to get a visa for before you can enter the country. Makes no difference which country you are in they all have regulations. Some enforce them more than others some are harder to get in. They all have their draw backs. And I am sure they all have people living out side the rules. All though it is a little harder to do in some countries it is easy to do in Thailand.

I am told that as friendly as Australia is to back packers if they show up with out a visa they will not be accepted. Just what I have heard.

With the exception of New Zealanders, anyone wishing to enter Australia for any purpose requires a visa. New Zealanders receive a ‘special category visa’ on arrival and nothing is stamped in their passports; there are no formalities and they can live and work in Australia for as long as they wish.

Your airline at point of departure will not permit you to board unless you have a valid visa.

[uptheos]

These days a backpack traveler has to have an onward ticket just to get into Thailand at many border crossings! Renew visa once, and then move on. Can't come back for at least six months.

These days, it's easier for that sort of backpack traveler to wander around Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, India, even Malaysia! Vietnam is the new backpacker destination because the infrastructure has made it comfortable for that sort of travel. It's no longer comfortable in LOS for the 'wanderer.' Now you need a plan... an itinerary... and a ticket out.

Thailand is famous for shooting itself in the foot.

You talk as if Thailand is the only country that shoots itself in the foot.

I do? I thought I was making a 10 word statement about Thailand, nothing else.

[harrry]

Some really great stories coming from some great people (a few that I know personally).

I think its getting to the point that we can say with some certainty, that backpackers in general, are a benefit to wherever they go and they certainly learn a lot on their travels.

Maybe in general but I have a feeling that mcgriffith's debaucherie in Kabul is probably what inspired the formation of the Taliban.

Hmm, food for thought he's certainly kept that quiet......just how does a backpacker survive without money in Kabul?

ANd how did he survive with no alchohol.

[uptheos]

Some really great stories coming from some great people (a few that I know personally).

I think its getting to the point that we can say with some certainty, that backpackers in general, are a benefit to wherever they go and they certainly learn a lot on their travels.

Maybe in general but I have a feeling that mcgriffith's debaucherie in Kabul is probably what inspired the formation of the Taliban.

Hmm, food for thought he's certainly kept that quiet......just how does a backpacker survive without money in Kabul?

ANd how did he survive with no alchohol.

Hmm, no money, no alcohol.......he must have been a mercenary with the mujahideen.

[pancakebreakfast]

to some extent you are right.

yet we have backpackers on kho san road watching reruns of Cheers and telling each other they saw the real Thailand, couple that with the mess they leave after full moon parties (not all of the attendees are backpackers). Many backpackers complain about spending 300 baht for a room but look closely and you will see them sporting 1000.00usd camera.

And what is if with white guys and dreadlocks?

[FolkGuitar]

Many backpackers complain about spending 300 baht for a room but look closely and you will see them sporting 1000.00usd camera.

A backpack traveler doesn't need to be indigent. He/she simply desires a different view of the world. It's always nice to make one's money go farther, but that isn't the goal of backpack travel. As I said in another post, while the backpacker may opt for a cheaper room, they spend plenty of money doing the same sorts of things the hotel guests do.

Have you ever stayed in a Holiday Inn, woken up in the morning, walked into the lobby and not been able to tell what country you were in? Or a Sheraton, Hilton, or Mercure? These chains of hotels have no 'sense of place' other than a few painting or statues. The rooms are identical in Rome, New York, Bangkok, or Berlin. In many cases, the same pictures on the walls... The guests at these hotels rarely gather together and chat. It's a building full of individuals, sleeping under one roof.

Then look at the backpacker guest house. Each is different, reflecting the culture of the country it's in. Guests often sit together and talk about the different things that they found that day, sharing ideas and itineraries. As a backpack traveler I made wonderful friends in each guest house I stayed in, often traveling for a few days with them as we discovered we were looking for the same type of local.

In a $3 guest house on Palau Tioman, Malaysia I met a German girl who was as interested as I was in visiting the Tamon Negara Rain Forest up north so we traveled together. In the middle of the jungles there we met two other girls who joined us for a couple of days of trekking. They said they knew of a really beautiful undeveloped island in the Gulf of Thailand that they were headed for after leaving the jungle, and invited us to come along. That's how I discovered Koh Tao with its 50 baht bungalows on the beach. We all went diving together for a few weeks, people joining and leaving our group every few days. When I felt it was time for me to move on, I joined up with an Australian girl who was headed for Bangkok, and we traveled that road together... This sort of travel does not occur for the people who make reservations at the Holiday Inn.

These days, guest houses are sporting swimming pools, restaurants, internet cafes, and all the amenities of the more expensive hotels, but without sacrificing their own identity. And without segregating guests by table. The prices make my money go farther too. I don't mind that. I can use the extra cash to buy a new lens for my camera.

[hellodolly]

These days a backpack traveler has to have an onward ticket just to get into Thailand at many border crossings! Renew visa once, and then move on. Can't come back for at least six months.

These days, it's easier for that sort of backpack traveler to wander around Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, India, even Malaysia! Vietnam is the new backpacker destination because the infrastructure has made it comfortable for that sort of travel. It's no longer comfortable in LOS for the 'wanderer.' Now you need a plan... an itinerary... and a ticket out.

Thailand is famous for shooting itself in the foot.

You talk as if Thailand is the only country that shoots itself in the foot.

I do? I thought I was making a 10 word statement about Thailand, nothing else.

You are correct.

I was just making a 15 word statement about how you present Thailand as being bad.

If you stop to think of it 30day visa onarrival is all a lot of back packers are looking for. And if they want more they can always back pack to Lao or Cambodia see some of the sites there and come back into Thailand with a 60 day visa.

[hellodolly]

Many backpackers complain about spending 300 baht for a room but look closely and you will see them sporting 1000.00usd camera.

A backpack traveler doesn't need to be indigent. He/she simply desires a different view of the world. It's always nice to make one's money go farther, but that isn't the goal of backpack travel. As I said in another post, while the backpacker may opt for a cheaper room, they spend plenty of money doing the same sorts of things the hotel guests do.

Have you ever stayed in a Holiday Inn, woken up in the morning, walked into the lobby and not been able to tell what country you were in? Or a Sheraton, Hilton, or Mercure? These chains of hotels have no 'sense of place' other than a few painting or statues. The rooms are identical in Rome, New York, Bangkok, or Berlin. In many cases, the same pictures on the walls... The guests at these hotels rarely gather together and chat. It's a building full of individuals, sleeping under one roof.

Then look at the backpacker guest house. Each is different, reflecting the culture of the country it's in. Guests often sit together and talk about the different things that they found that day, sharing ideas and itineraries. As a backpack traveler I made wonderful friends in each guest house I stayed in, often traveling for a few days with them as we discovered we were looking for the same type of local.

In a $3 guest house on Palau Tioman, Malaysia I met a German girl who was as interested as I was in visiting the Tamon Negara Rain Forest up north so we traveled together. In the middle of the jungles there we met two other girls who joined us for a couple of days of trekking. They said they knew of a really beautiful undeveloped island in the Gulf of Thailand that they were headed for after leaving the jungle, and invited us to come along. That's how I discovered Koh Tao with its 50 baht bungalows on the beach. We all went diving together for a few weeks, people joining and leaving our group every few days. When I felt it was time for me to move on, I joined up with an Australian girl who was headed for Bangkok, and we traveled that road together... This sort of travel does not occur for the people who make reservations at the Holiday Inn.

These days, guest houses are sporting swimming pools, restaurants, internet cafes, and all the amenities of the more expensive hotels, but without sacrificing their own identity. And without segregating guests by table. The prices make my money go farther too. I don't mind that. I can use the extra cash to buy a new lens for my camera.

I mean this with all due respect.

Have you ever considered holding a class on pack packing and the rewards from it. You realize of course that I am jealous as he-l. I wish I had had the get up and go to do it when I was young. I don't think I am alone with that feeling some of these nay sayers about back packers feel the same way only are afraid to face there failings in that. I faced mine and as a result I can enjoy the stories from people such as your self.

[FolkGuitar]

Many backpackers complain about spending 300 baht for a room but look closely and you will see them sporting 1000.00usd camera.

A backpack traveler doesn't need to be indigent. He/she simply desires a different view of the world. It's always nice to make one's money go farther, but that isn't the goal of backpack travel. As I said in another post, while the backpacker may opt for a cheaper room, they spend plenty of money doing the same sorts of things the hotel guests do.

Have you ever stayed in a Holiday Inn, woken up in the morning, walked into the lobby and not been able to tell what country you were in? Or a Sheraton, Hilton, or Mercure? These chains of hotels have no 'sense of place' other than a few painting or statues. The rooms are identical in Rome, New York, Bangkok, or Berlin. In many cases, the same pictures on the walls... The guests at these hotels rarely gather together and chat. It's a building full of individuals, sleeping under one roof.

Then look at the backpacker guest house. Each is different, reflecting the culture of the country it's in. Guests often sit together and talk about the different things that they found that day, sharing ideas and itineraries. As a backpack traveler I made wonderful friends in each guest house I stayed in, often traveling for a few days with them as we discovered we were looking for the same type of local.

In a $3 guest house on Palau Tioman, Malaysia I met a German girl who was as interested as I was in visiting the Tamon Negara Rain Forest up north so we traveled together. In the middle of the jungles there we met two other girls who joined us for a couple of days of trekking. They said they knew of a really beautiful undeveloped island in the Gulf of Thailand that they were headed for after leaving the jungle, and invited us to come along. That's how I discovered Koh Tao with its 50 baht bungalows on the beach. We all went diving together for a few weeks, people joining and leaving our group every few days. When I felt it was time for me to move on, I joined up with an Australian girl who was headed for Bangkok, and we traveled that road together... This sort of travel does not occur for the people who make reservations at the Holiday Inn.

These days, guest houses are sporting swimming pools, restaurants, internet cafes, and all the amenities of the more expensive hotels, but without sacrificing their own identity. And without segregating guests by table. The prices make my money go farther too. I don't mind that. I can use the extra cash to buy a new lens for my camera.

I mean this with all due respect.

Have you ever considered holding a class on pack packing and the rewards from it.

Thanks. I'll give it to you in one quoted sentence;

"The journey of discovery is not in traveling to new lands, but in seeing with new eyes."

[mrclough]

It's still making interesting reading this thread.

Bit of bashing of travellers with suitcases going on a little too much for my liking.

Kind of hypocritical saying backpackers are all peaceful and friendly then venting what appears to be dislike and anger towards people with a case. It's a means for carrying your possessions for gods sake. That like saying all people with tattoos are bad people lol.

Also, just a thought mind, but all these places that were discovered by the backpackers who then told the world how great they were really ought to consider taking some responsibility for their downfall to tourism. Should have kept it off the beaten track!!

Ha ha, seriously though, some of you guys have to realise that time has moved on considerably since you settled here or ended your backpacking adventures. People of today want and look for different things. I've stayed in some 300 / 350 baht guesthouses. some are fine like the one I spent the last 2 nights in up in Chiang Rai, some I wouldn't even put a dog in.

Another side note, some of the people who stay in places like Holiday Inn, Ibis hotels etc do actually talk to each other and socialise with each other you know? Most of them have bars too where people make new friends and discuss their holidays.

Backpackers are not the only sociable people on this lonely planet you know lol. Even pensioners on their Saga holidays have a great time and come back with new friends!!!

Edited July 31, 2012 by mrclough

[KRS1]

Backpackers are fine IMO.

It's the online poker players with no other source of income that come to CNX with bad intentions.

[insertmembernamehere]

if Burma opens up we will see a resurgence of such travel over there for a brief time

Except for a few blips, Myanmar has never been not open. It is really the last place in SE Asia where you really feel like you are traveling in the way one did 25 years ago. I fear that with the political situation easing, the inevitable will begin and so I advise anyone with any interest in Myanmar (which is what the people there have called their country since before military rule) to go there before it becomes homogenized into the SE Asian tourist model.

By the way, not all "backpackers" carry backpacks, nor are all who pull wheeled bags with extendable handles non-backpackers. I gave up on backpacks after I realized that pulling a bag with wheels was easier and that I rarely ever had taken my backpack "cross country" with me. Wheels on bags! What an invention!

[uptheos]

if Burma opens up we will see a resurgence of such travel over there for a brief time

Except for a few blips, Myanmar has never been not open. It is really the last place in SE Asia where you really feel like you are traveling in the way one did 25 years ago. I fear that with the political situation easing, the inevitable will begin and so I advise anyone with any interest in Myanmar (which is what the people there have called their country since before military rule) to go there before it becomes homogenized into the SE Asian tourist model.

Well I agree that Burma has always been open, but many years ago there were certainly lots of conflict areas (still are) that were definitely out of bounds and travel was severely restricted all over Burma without a government driver accompanying you. Even by plane you needed a Burmese national with you. Rooms were searched and hotel lobbies always had a 'parked' government resident, who tried hard not to look like one. The beach areas were certainly a no go area, though for anyone who dared to venture, they would have found pristine beaches, usually devoid of any government influence. The problem wasn't at these places, (the people were friendly but afraid of the consequences and therefore difficult to stay anywhere), but rather all the possible places you could get stopped whilst trying to get there and Burmese nationals were very afraid.

Tourism has changed and I agree that no-one in SEA should avoid going to Burma, it's an amazing country with friendly people who have suffered badly. To not see a place such as Bagan whilst living so close, would be missing one of the world's wonders.

The people have to call their country Myanmar when out in the open, it's not because they want to but the repercussions could be hard if heard but the majority still call it Burma in private. Aung San Suu Kyi on her European tour referred to it as Burma all the time and was severely reprimanded by the government. She knew what she was doing, but wanted to show how sensitive the military still are to these sort of things.

[FolkGuitar]

if Burma opens up we will see a resurgence of such travel over there for a brief time

Except for a few blips, Myanmar has never been not open.

While we were allowed into the country, we were NEVER allowed to roam at will. Our rather shaby dressed hotel-hired 'driver' was changed after the first three hours to one who had to 'call his wife' before we left, every time we wanted to go to a different venue. Four men, dressed exactly like our driver, (white shirts, dark pants, shinned shoes, sunglasses, and never a smile,) managed to be at every venue we visited, maintaining a 10-meter box around us, the same four men for the entire five days we were there... Our driver was most inquisitive; 'why are you REALLY visiting Myanmar?' 'Who are you meeting here?' 'When is your meeting taking place?' 'What is your purpose in driving around Yangon?' 'Why are you looking out the back window?' Why are you really here?' He asked these same question every day for five days... It became so uncomfortable that on our last day there we decided to stay inside the hotel and read a book rather that putting up with more of the same... Of course the four men were also sitting in the hotel lobby... all day.

[mrclough]

if Burma opens up we will see a resurgence of such travel over there for a brief time

Except for a few blips, Myanmar has never been not open.

While we were allowed into the country, we were NEVER allowed to roam at will. Our rather shaby dressed hotel-hired 'driver' was changed after the first three hours to one who had to 'call his wife' before we left, every time we wanted to go to a different venue. Four men, dressed exactly like our driver, (white shirts, dark pants, shinned shoes, sunglasses, and never a smile,) managed to be at every venue we visited, maintaining a 10-meter box around us, the same four men for the entire five days we were there... Our driver was most inquisitive; 'why are you REALLY visiting Myanmar?' 'Who are you meeting here?' 'When is your meeting taking place?' 'What is your purpose in driving around Yangon?' 'Why are you looking out the back window?' Why are you really here?' He asked these same question every day for five days... It became so uncomfortable that on our last day there we decided to stay inside the hotel and read a book rather that putting up with more of the same... Of course the four men were also sitting in the hotel lobby... all day.

Doesn't sound like too much fun then.

I'm keen to visit the place but still a little unsure of it to go yet though.

I'll wait a while I think, can do without the interrogation lol

[nikster]

I generally prefer backpackers to expats.

They may be clueless but they approach everything with a fresh mind. They may be out for the cheapest place in town but at least they don't whine endlessly about everything. They often all do the same thing in the same place but at least they're loving it.

They don't think they're above the expats.

They don't have much money but they are rich - who else gets to take a whole year off, or two?

The only backpackers that annoy me are those who inexplicably don't wash. That somehow have not realized that showers are not rare in Thailand and that one needs to wash more often in a tropical country...

I loved backpacking... that's how I got here in the first place.

[uptheos]

Doesn't sound like too much fun then.

I'm keen to visit the place but still a little unsure of it to go yet though.

I'll wait a while I think, can do without the interrogation lol

I'm talking quite a few years ago, it's not the same now, but you're still not allowed in the conflict areas.

Hotels have True channels and the place is getting packed with Japanese and Koreans.

Up north you will see a much greater Chinese influence.

I think if you go to Yangon and plan a route from there, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Let me know if you ever need a reliable, 100% honest, travel agent inside Burma. You can liaise via email.

[insertmembernamehere]

You should do a little more research on the origin of the name of the country, Bama and Myanma in their own language.

I was there in 2006 and was free to travel without hindrance of any kind to Yangon, Mandalay, Bagan and Inle Lake. I am sure it was restrictive many years ago, but the times they are a changin'...

nikster:

I generally prefer backpackers to expats.

And you are a self-appreciated backpacker or full of self loathing?

[uptheos]

You should do a little more research on the origin of the name of the country, Bama and Myanma in their own language.

I was there in 2006 and was free to travel without hindrance of any kind to Yangon, Mandalay, Bagan and Inle Lake. I am sure it was restrictive many years ago, but the times they are a changin'...

If you are talking to me, I don't need to do research - the majority simply hate Myanmar because of the way the name change from Burma was imposed on them by the junta. All the tourist spots you mention haven't been a problem in recent times (2006 is recent times).

[FolkGuitar]

Doesn't sound like too much fun then.

I'm keen to visit the place but still a little unsure of it to go yet though.

I'll wait a while I think, can do without the interrogation lol

In all fairness, this was 15 years ago, I was loaded down with cameras, I'm American and my wife is Japanese. Between us, we probably looked like an International Human Rights Investigative reporting team... I'd like to think things are different today.

[Ulysses G.]

I am told that it is pretty easy traveling in most areas now.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[uptheos]

I am told that it is pretty easy traveling in most areas now.

Definitely not conflict areas.

[insertmembernamehere]

uptheos

the majority simply hate Myanmar because of the way the name change from Burma was imposed on them by the junta.

All the Burmese I know and had met in the country told me, and I did ask, that Myanmar is the word they traditionally used independent of any political influence. Just because it is/was a junta, does not mean that every single thing they did was incorrect. "Burma" is a derivation of the name of the majority ethnic group in the country.

The Wiki entry seems to sum it up:

In English, the country is popularly known by its short names, either "Burma" or "Myanmar". Both of its short names are derived from the name of the majority Burmese Bamar ethnic group. "Myanmar" is considered to be the literary form of the name of the ethnic group, while "Burma" is derived from Bamar, the colloquial form of the name of the group. (Myanma is the written, literary name of the country, while Bamar is the spoken name of the country.)The name "Burma" has been in use in English since the time of British colonial rule.

So in their own language, both Myanma and Bama (the transliteration) have been used long before 1989. While there may be resentment by some at doing anything with the name (in English), there has never been any controversy internally by using either (in their own script and language).

[mrclough]

On a recent flight from Bangkok to Chiang Mai there was a bit of a write up about it, sounded and looked great. Always does in magazines though I guess lol

[hellodolly]

On a recent flight from Bangkok to Chiang Mai there was a bit of a write up about it, sounded and looked great. Always does in magazines though I guess lol

When we traveled through from Masai to Kentong and then on to Monglar on the Chinese border five years ago. We had to have a guide and he had all the paper work. After we got in we were stopped twice and asked for paper work. Both times well with in the borders. I think the major cities have always been a little easier. The trip we took required a guide and the use of Thai and Chinese money. At one hotel I forced them to take Burmese money,

It gives you room for thought when you see a soldier about 5 foot 3 walking down the street out in the middle of no ware carrying a riffle about a foot longer than him. I think it has always been easy to travel in the big cities but when you get out of them it is advisable to have a guide. In fact I had heard it was mandatory. Maybe just a rumor.

[vagabond48]

you been to vang vieng lately? ruined. pai? ruined. samet? ruined. development aimed at backpackers, promoting their business, ruins places; it doesnt preserve them. the local economy that NEEDS preservation only exists because of the backpackers of yesteryear. take them out of the equation and those same businesses transform into something more sustainable.

and, btw, im barely 30.

I was in vang vieng and pai several years ago and was disgusted (i'm over 60) but it sounds like some of these types of backpackers may be the future upscale expats ruining places like CM, by "needing" the comforts of their western lifestyle like large houses, pools, big satellite dishes, 2 cars (minimum), maids, preferring western foods, pricy restaurants, gated communities etc.