Increase In Rape Of Foreigners In Thailand

[Tippaporn]

What I argue is, it is not the mind of the victim that determines if and why a rape occurs, it is the mind of the attacker. We have responsibility for our actions.

You will of course immediately recognize this as stemming from St Agustine’s preposition with respect to the centrality of will controlling our actions. Perhaps, you and I might discuss that if and when a philosophy branch ever starts. Meanwhile, you might want to revist Descartes, so you can 'refresh' yourself on exactly what it is he said about thought and reality.

Oh and St Augustine was a man.

To start, trust me when I say that I truly take no offense to anything anyone replies in response to my posts. I'll always lobby for respect of others opinions, though it's admittedly difficult to do at times.

I most definitely see your point, Guesthouse. Questions that arise out of topics such as this, any topic where there is a victim involved, never seem to get very far IMHO. And I believe it's due to quite a few concepts that while they enjoy mass acceptance they don't have any real truth to them. Which compounds the problem even further, since the true answers will naturally lie 180 degrees from the original concept. There will be a huge apparent contradition within the new thought as it opposes the old, existing thought. That, IMHO, is why thought on the whole hasn't advanced very far throughtout the recorded ages; why we keep going to endless wars, for instance.

So, hopefully you can see where I'm coming from. I've never been one to automatically accept or sheepishly follow existing ideas simply because it's what I've been taught and most certainly not because it happens to be mainstream. I attempt to conclude for myself as much as possible.

Given that, I have always looked for answers that ring truer and that offer explanations without contradiction. Without contradiction has always been the key for me in settling upon any ideology. Show me something that works in all instances, and not something that's given to a million special rules and a zillion aberrations.

I'm not at all familiar with St. Agustine's preposition, nor have I read Descartes. So I can't rightly comment. I would not look to them as infallible and would therefore make up my own mind in the end.

I can certainly understand your opposition, or anyone else's, to what I'm saying as I do recognize the enormous difference in polarity. Most people believe they have little control over their experience. The flipside of that philosphy would be complete control. Not surprising at all that some battles would ensue. Each thinking the other crazy. Of course. Quite natural. To be expected. Big deal. Mai pen rai.

I will say that I have come from where you stand today. I didn't like a lot of what was told to me as far as how this world works. I thought it sucked! On the other hand you have not traveled the roads I've been on and cannot discount what I have seen. That would be a claim based in utter foolishness. And I will pass along what I have encountered.

Is there a person alive who would does not want full control of their life??? A person who would not prefer it? Isn't everybody trying to "get what they want" and trying to figure out how? And if you were to tell people that it's possible to have that control, to get everything that you want you will be labeled a heretic. Go figure.

Anyway, the idea that thoughts, emotions, imagination and intentions play a vital role in determining experience may seem very odd considering that value has never been duly given any of them, and as such their possible effects and uses are given zero attention. It's a road that few go down. What's the old saying about traveling less traveled roads? That's where you'll find me.

Again, I hope you and everyone else that's reading this finds your own answers that work best for each of you. Sincerely.

[spacebass]

Where is the body of statistics that you are quoting from? As far as I know "seems" isn't a valid statistical tool. In what part of Thailand is there a shortage of prostitutes? In what study of psychology is it suggested that rape is considered an alternative for consensual sex? I've read that rape isn't about "sex" but "control". I guess that you know differently.

It is true that in farang society rape is associated with control, however I doubt very much that what goes on in a Thai persons head bears much relationship to what goes on in a farangs head.

[Ijustwannateach]

Given the Victorian nature of Thai society and the greater repression of women here, I'd guess that some Thai women might not even have a clear idea of their right to say no. Some women might not realise they have been victimised- not to say there's no distress, but they may not be thinking of what happened to them in legal terms, especially if the rapist is a close associate or part of their support network. One would expect a lot of under-reporting. So it's not so surprising that reports of these crimes against foreigners stand out- both as rarely-reported sexual crimes, and as crimes involving tourists.

[kat]

forcing someone to have sex without their concent is IMO as a women, violent.

Thanks for such a clear-cut statement Boo.

However, I do believe that the nature of rape may change according to the place, culture, and values of the place. I think in the West we have all heard over and over again that rape is about violence and control, and that is largely true most of the time, but I also think it can be about stereotypical reasons like lack of control, arousal, extreme objectification, and the belief that they have the advantage and can get away with it. In the case of SEA, I belive that the latter point is very prominent and more widespread.

The chinese have a saying that says "if rape is unavoidable at least try to enjoy it"

Maybe that's why people get away with it in SEA.

Well, who knows, maybe you'll have a chance to find out. Men are also raped here on a regular basis. Perhaps you haven't met that special ladyboy in a dark soi yet.

I'm not chinese so you're shooting the messenger.

Regarding the ring of fire you can save your breath cause I've had it.

Didn't enjoy it but it didn't shatter my world either.

If you were raped before Meom, then you have my sympathy. However, I would expect that it would have made you a lot more sensitive than to post the glib, sarcastic posts that you do.

Nam Kao: sexual orientation has nothing to do with a person's ethics or character; just take a look at the majority of your posts and other TV posters to prove my point.

Edited January 18, 2006 by kat

[cdnvic]

Nam Kao: sexual orientation has nothing to do with a person's ethics or character; just take a look at the majority of your posts and other TV posters to prove my point.

Nam Kao won't be posting any longer

cv

[orchis]

I think the relatives of foreign victims of rape/murder who won't be shut up

and who keep the issues alive in the first foreign, followed on its heels by the Thai

press, and through their embassies

are a big force who can make Thai politicians and police do something about it.

Edited January 18, 2006 by orchis

[kat]

Nam Kao: sexual orientation has nothing to do with a person's ethics or character; just take a look at the majority of your posts and other TV posters to prove my point.

Nam Kao won't be posting any longer

cv

Wow! Good work, Vic. That creature was never capable of anything except the most vile of comments.

I think the relatives of foreign victims of rape/murder who won't be shut up

and who keep the issues alive in the first foreign, followed on its heels by the Thai

press, and through their embassies

are a big force who can force Thai politicians and police to do something about it.

Agreed. That is a great point. I think the nature behind underreporting by local women, the lack of confrontation, and some of the issues that IJWT has raised make it very difficult for change to come from within. Human Trafficking has only started to be confronted because Western people, media, and governments put the pressure on. I guess the velvet gloves don't work here when it comes to confronting male violence and impunity.

[blabbel]

why are you following me around on this forum.

if you feel the need to question every thing i say and i am confident in what i say, please do some research and prove me wrong, but do not waste my time and the forums space on childish quips and again winding me up, why? explain your self please.

most people are expressing and posting what they feel all i can see from your posts is quote's from other members and you pulling apart the majority of what they are posting and baiting people into confrontation, with your somewhat antagonising remarks, again why?

I am hardly 'following you around', I posted in this thread befor you, same in the "cleansiness" thread. I simply disagree with a lot of what you say.

When you refer to other sources (i.e. statistics and surveys), be prepared to back up what you say or find a way of saying it using reasoning without relying on outside sources you can't point to when challenged.

[Khutan]

I think the death penalty just handed down for the two fishermen may change people's mind a bit.

[astral]

I think the death penalty just handed down for the two fishermen may change people's mind a bit.

So much for leniency if you confess.

[blabbel]

...

Anyway, the idea that thoughts, emotions, imagination and intentions play a vital role in determining experience may seem very odd considering that value has never been duly given any of them, and as such their possible effects and uses are given zero attention. It's a road that few go down. What's the old saying about traveling less traveled roads? That's where you'll find me.

Again, I hope you and everyone else that's reading this finds your own answers that work best for each of you. Sincerely.

Thanks, Tippaporn, very interesting thoughts, they seem to relate to Buddhism and modern psychology, without being either.

However, even considering many thoughts and emotions are only semi- or un-conscious, it would be difficult to explain how a woman created the Samui situation, being attacked, beaten to death and raped by complete strangers she had no contact at all with before the incident.

Also, I hasten to add, in legal and moral terms, the 'guilt' is 100% on the offender, not the victim.

[Polly]

What I argue is, it is not the mind of the victim that determines if and why a rape occurs, it is the mind of the attacker. We have responsibility for our actions.

You will of course immediately recognize this as stemming from St Agustine’s preposition with respect to the centrality of will controlling our actions. Perhaps, you and I might discuss that if and when a philosophy branch ever starts. Meanwhile, you might want to revist Descartes, so you can 'refresh' yourself on exactly what it is he said about thought and reality.

Oh and St Augustine was a man.

To start, trust me when I say that I truly take no offense to anything anyone replies in response to my posts. I'll always lobby for respect of others opinions, though it's admittedly difficult to do at times.

I most definitely see your point, Guesthouse. Questions that arise out of topics such as this, any topic where there is a victim involved, never seem to get very far IMHO. And I believe it's due to quite a few concepts that while they enjoy mass acceptance they don't have any real truth to them. Which compounds the problem even further, since the true answers will naturally lie 180 degrees from the original concept. There will be a huge apparent contradition within the new thought as it opposes the old, existing thought. That, IMHO, is why thought on the whole hasn't advanced very far throughtout the recorded ages; why we keep going to endless wars, for instance.

So, hopefully you can see where I'm coming from. I've never been one to automatically accept or sheepishly follow existing ideas simply because it's what I've been taught and most certainly not because it happens to be mainstream. I attempt to conclude for myself as much as possible.

Given that, I have always looked for answers that ring truer and that offer explanations without contradiction. Without contradiction has always been the key for me in settling upon any ideology. Show me something that works in all instances, and not something that's given to a million special rules and a zillion aberrations.

I'm not at all familiar with St. Agustine's preposition, nor have I read Descartes. So I can't rightly comment. I would not look to them as infallible and would therefore make up my own mind in the end.

I can certainly understand your opposition, or anyone else's, to what I'm saying as I do recognize the enormous difference in polarity. Most people believe they have little control over their experience. The flipside of that philosphy would be complete control. Not surprising at all that some battles would ensue. Each thinking the other crazy. Of course. Quite natural. To be expected. Big deal. Mai pen rai.

I will say that I have come from where you stand today. I didn't like a lot of what was told to me as far as how this world works. I thought it sucked! On the other hand you have not traveled the roads I've been on and cannot discount what I have seen. That would be a claim based in utter foolishness. And I will pass along what I have encountered.

Is there a person alive who would does not want full control of their life??? A person who would not prefer it? Isn't everybody trying to "get what they want" and trying to figure out how? And if you were to tell people that it's possible to have that control, to get everything that you want you will be labeled a heretic. Go figure.

Anyway, the idea that thoughts, emotions, imagination and intentions play a vital role in determining experience may seem very odd considering that value has never been duly given any of them, and as such their possible effects and uses are given zero attention. It's a road that few go down. What's the old saying about traveling less traveled roads? That's where you'll find me.

Again, I hope you and everyone else that's reading this finds your own answers that work best for each of you. Sincerely.

It is a terrible shame that you have not learnt to control your verbosity. What a rambler!

[gburns57au]

I would actually wonder gburns how you couldn't view any rape as violent? To be voilent doesn't need to involve hitting etc, a threat is violent if the victim beleives it.

Anyone who is able to force someone to have sex aginst their will must be expressing some kind of threat or power over their victim which can only be violent as the victim cannot prevent it. Even if the rapist was apologising whist doing it or thought there was some kind of romantic involvement in their own mind, for the victim, they are forcing sex on someone who doesn't want it. Which IMO is a form of violence.

I wasnt posting my viewpoint merely asking for a definition

It may surprise you that I agree with you and Kat....anything that is against will is an act of violence.

I think men and women do see it different tho....for most men violence would include blood and guts, so to speak.

[blabbel]

You are confused.

You weren't asking for a definition, yet you are the only one in this thread (and there are many men posting) who was questioning the presence of violence, and the meaning of violence (for men). Please own up to what you say, was it YOU, or "most men" who posted:

I keep hearing this word VIOLENT.......having attended many rape cases in court there usually is very little violence in the true sense of the word....

Let me quote the relevant bit from dictionary.com:

"violence:

4. abusive or injust exercise of power"

[gburns57au]

You are confused.

You weren't asking for a definition, yet you are the only one in this thread (and there are many men posting) who was questioning the presence of violence, and the meaning of violence (for men). Please own up to what you say, was it YOU, or "most men" who posted:

I keep hearing this word VIOLENT.......having attended many rape cases in court there usually is very little violence in the true sense of the word....

Let me quote the relevant bit from dictionary.com:

"violence:

4. abusive or injust exercise of power"

and definitions 1,2,3 + were ????

[soic]

Over the last few months there seem to have been a marked increase in the number or

reported rapes, particularly against tourist girls.

Could this be related to the Government's policy to shut down the sex trade in Thailand?

Previously men/boys would have found a prostitute.

Is that becoming too difficult so they prey on innocent tourists?

Shut down the sex trade? I've never seen a shut down... I'll tell you the best line to pick up a prostitute. "Hello!" Works everytime... There have been relatively few rapes compared to western cities and nations. They just get more publicity when it's against a tourist.

[GuestHouse]

There have been relatively few rapes compared to western cities and nations.

Utter nonsense.

That there have been relatively few reported rapes is indisputable, but that is not evidence of fewer rapes.

The lack of support for women who file rape complaints and the stigma attached to rape victims in Thailand ensures that rapes go unreported.

[meom]

forcing someone to have sex without their concent is IMO as a women, violent.

Thanks for such a clear-cut statement Boo.

However, I do believe that the nature of rape may change according to the place, culture, and values of the place. I think in the West we have all heard over and over again that rape is about violence and control, and that is largely true most of the time, but I also think it can be about stereotypical reasons like lack of control, arousal, extreme objectification, and the belief that they have the advantage and can get away with it. In the case of SEA, I belive that the latter point is very prominent and more widespread.

The chinese have a saying that says "if rape is unavoidable at least try to enjoy it"

Maybe that's why people get away with it in SEA.

Well, who knows, maybe you'll have a chance to find out. Men are also raped here on a regular basis. Perhaps you haven't met that special ladyboy in a dark soi yet.

I'm not chinese so you're shooting the messenger.

Regarding the ring of fire you can save your breath cause I've had it.

Didn't enjoy it but it didn't shatter my world either.

If you were raped before Meom, then you have my sympathy. However, I would expect that it would have made you a lot more sensitive than to post the glib, sarcastic posts that you do.

It happened over 20 yrs ago and if you hear the circumstances you might wish to reconsider

I'll spare you the details except for a few keywords such as drugs, 2girls/2boys and some sort of orgy. What started consentual ended not so consentual by which time it was too late to stop it.

Based on Boo's statement it could be classified as rape but in my own opinion it was more stupidity than anything else.

So you might wish to save your sympathy until I go down in the dark soi that you mention.

[khall64au]

Nam Kao: sexual orientation has nothing to do with a person's ethics or character; just take a look at the majority of your posts and other TV posters to prove my point.

Nam Kao won't be posting any longer

cv

Phew!!!! You just made my day.... his comments were enough to violate me on a regular basis - one less blocked poster on my list

[TAWP]

I would like to re-iterate my previous post on this subject, regarding that many female friends of my wife did infact, as per confession to us, loose their virginity due to rape, in many cases by boyfriends or male friends.

It has nothing to do with pornography or prostitution and everything to do with the status of woman in marrige and the view that 'men should be able to take what they need' in their relationship.

Don't forget that in many countries (including Thailand) there is no such thing as 'rape', legally, within the marrige. And even in some of the more 'enlightened' [sic] western countries this was also the case just 1-2 generations ago.

A side note: while a agree that rape in itself is always a violation, it isn't always violent. Legally there is a strict definition and it exists because there has to be a way to differentiate between a rape and a one involving heavy physical abuse and beatings.

[Tippaporn]

Thanks, Tippaporn, very interesting thoughts, they seem to relate to Buddhism and modern psychology, without being either.

However, even considering many thoughts and emotions are only semi- or un-conscious, it would be difficult to explain how a woman created the Samui situation, being attacked, beaten to death and raped by complete strangers she had no contact at all with before the incident.

Also, I hasten to add, in legal and moral terms, the 'guilt' is 100% on the offender, not the victim.

Thank you, Blabbel, for according respect and appreciation over a point of view that I know you don't quite agree with, yet have taken the time to digest with a sincere effort towards understanding. May all members take note of a great example of etiquette that works very well.

I must "ramble on" here for there is no getting around expressing a complex topic in a few brief paragraphs. So bear with me, if you choose to do so, and while I will digress from the original topic of this thread I will work my way back to it.

The ideas I express are sourced neither in Buddhism nor modern psychology. The source of these ideas come from deep within us. And as this is their source they have then been expressed in many forms throughout the ages by many others, including most religions. They have existed as long as mankind has existed, and will continue to exist after our bodies turn into dust once again.

The idea that thought, imagination, emotion and intention do indeed have visible and quite practical effects is anything but new, or even radical, and this idea has been expressed often and in ways that most everyone can agree with. To wit:

- Vision is the art of seeing things invisible. (Jonathan Swift)

- If you only look at what is, you might never attain what could be. (Anonymous)

- If one advances in the direction of his dreams, one will meet with success unexpected in common hours. (Henry David Thoreau)

- If you can imagine it, you can achieve it; if you can dream it, you can become it. (William Arthur Ward)

- An idea is never given to you without you being given the power to make it reality. You must, nevertheless, suffer for it. (Richard Bach)

I would aver that most people would readily agree with what the above quotes suggest. The implication of these insights quite obviously speaks of the power that lies inherently within us; the ability to think, to dream and to imagine what we can achieve and become. What these quotes do not intimate is that we can also utilize this same power to work in reverse. In other words, if thoughts mold experience in one direction (towards what is wanted) then they also mold experience in the opposite direction (towards what is not wanted). Mankind creates in both directions. There are reasons for this, but an explaination as to why becomes yet another topic.

You are partially correct, Blabbel, in recognizing that many thoughts do not reside in the forefront of consciousness. While they are all readily accessible it is through our habit of not paying attention to our thoughts that many of them seem to be hidden. Most people are not aware of the constant flow of thoughts that enter and exit the mind throughout every waking moment of life. People cannot stop thinking, and even when not engaged in activities that take our immediate attention we engage in constant internal dialogues with ourselves.

It is precisely because we have not been taught the value or purpose of our thoughts that we become to a large degree unaware of the contents of our minds. And if thought is the tool that is used to paint the colorful experiences of our lives then little wonder that we are hard pressed to explain the creation of events that meet up with us.

Why does a woman minding her own business find herself in the wrong place at the wrong time? Nobody knows why. And there is a good chance nobody will ever know. The reasons are multi-faceted. And much to deep to enter into without truly writing volumes.

While I propose that our thoughts create, that through our disregard for our thoughts we have lost the connection between our thoughts and our experience, and that this implies that we have a hand in what we create, both "good" and "bad", wanted and unwanted, I do so not to lay the blame on the victim, nor to deflect blame from the perpetrator, but to raise awareness for any so interested that we do indeed have much more control over every facet of our lives than is so commonly supposed. That, my friends, changes one's life on a grand scale. No longer would one abdicate the precious gift that we have been given but rather whole-heartedly reclaim our own true power. It is not a power over others (which we do not have, as some mistakenly believe they do) but a power to create for ourselves, as we see fit.

That is one of the points I wish to make in this thread. Laugh at me, or frown at me, depending on your particular disposition, but regardless of what anyone personally believes it does not change the fact that we each create. Do so by default, in which case you can live life as a leaf blowing in the wind, or do so with quite conscious awareness and deliberate intent and much greater understanding. That's the difference.

The only other point I would make here is that this discussion, as it is going now, will ultimately go nowhere in reaching any true understanding of the issue of rape. It simply cannot as long as there exists a lack of understanding of how events, both personal and en masse, are shaped.

- All great truths begin as blasphemies. (George Bernard Shaw)

- Facts are stubborn things. (Alain Rene Lesage)

- The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is. (Winston Churchill)

- What is now proved was once only imagin'd. (William Blake)

- For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. (Benjamin Franklin)

- Wonder rather than doubt is the root of all knowledge. (Abraham Joshua Heschel)

- Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking. (John Maynard Keynes)

- Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it. (Henry Ford)

- Security is mostly superstition... Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. (Helen Keller)

[Tippaporn]

It is a terrible shame that you have not learnt to control your verbosity. What a rambler!

Nice try at trying to rile me, Polly. It's a lost cause, really.

Had you agreed with the contents of the post you would have applauded, and looked expectantly for the next. Sarcasm is so shallow, I just don't understand why people continue the attempt. It's belittling not to the intended receiver, but of the giver.

[gurkle]

I think criminals rape others for sex, not power. Otherwise, they would not "finish" the act of sex, thereby leaving DNA evidence.

Sex is like hunger, it's a human necessity for males. Hence the availability of affordable sex in Thailand results in a significantly lower incidence of rape than in the U.S. I also think that the lack of affordable sex in the U.S. results in more serial killers and pedophilia than anywhere else in the world. These concepts do not exist in Thai society.

In any event, I think rape should still be considered a violent crime with stiff sentences. If anyone raped someone I knew, I would hope they get the death sentence.

But at least more enlightened societies such as Singapore realize the connection between a lack of affordable sex and violent crimes and reduce it by legalizing prostitution.

[GuestHouse]

Why does a woman minding her own business find herself in the wrong place at the wrong time? Nobody knows why.

So let me get this right.

A woman goes to bed in her own home where she has lived perhaps all her life in safety.

I stranger breaks into the house while she is asleep, gets into her bedroom and rapes her. ( A scenario that is repeated often around the world).

The woman is raped, she is a vicitim of rape, she did nothing to preciptate her rape.

The rapist made the decision to rape. It is he who is responsible and it his HIS THOUGHTS that led to the rape.

Now. Don't waffle, stick to the point and tell us how a rape victim (female of male) in this situation has any part to play in the attack other than being a victim. You can repeat quotations from management motivation books till the cows come home, what I would like to see is reasoned argument. (Sadly lacking).

[Boo]

Sex is like hunger, it's a human necessity for males. Hence the availability of affordable sex in Thailand results in a significantly lower incidence of rape than in the U.S. I also think that the lack of affordable sex in the U.S. results in more serial killers and pedophilia than anywhere else in the world. These concepts do not exist in Thai society.

Paeodphillia most certainly does exist in thai society & to think that it doesn't shows a massive naivety. As for thinking that rape occurs more in the US than in Thailand shows your are again, sadly misinformed. As others have stated, there are less reported cases of rape in Thailand NOT less, actual rapes.

[Uma~~]

It is true that sex is akin to hunger and is a natural desire that can't be repressed.

Attitudes toward sex vary considerably from Thailand to the U.K. to the United Arab Emirates but no country is immune to rape just as no country is immune to murder or theft as they are all natural in the animal world and underneath the society which protects us we are animals.

Rape is common in Dubai, especially date and inter marraige rape, and there was a case about two years ago of a Filipino who was raped by a man who introduced himself as policeman, offered a ride to her and a Filipina companion who were waiting for a cab after attending a friend's birthday party at Riga, Deira in Dubai. The man instead drove his car to the desert.

The woman's companion, who was seated at the back, jumped off the car and called police for help. Police found the Fillipino girl 15 minutes later unconscious, raped and with torn clothes. The police caught the fleeing Arab man five minutes later.

After the incident, the woman, name Grace, was hospitalized for 10 days. She was later jailed on charges of intoxication and adultery and as a result the U.S. had to send a legal team over to assist her.

In Thailand it seems it is accepted providing it doesn't damage tourism and in the U.K. it is less taboo and there is plenty of help for victims, possibly more than anywhere else.

I have had unwanted attention from men since I was fifteen years old but have never been raped. I've been lucky enough to have a wonderful, though very protective father who has, for me, rescued the reputation of the male human being.

Regardless of legal or not I always carry a knife or a tazer which both came in handy just over a year ago when a man tried to attack me in England. He was very sorry indeed, covered in blood and crying like a little boy when I left him. I was unable to contact the police because I had retaliated beyond reason and so I would have ended up in trouble with the authorities despite being the one who had been minding my own business waiting for a cab.

[gurkle]

It is true that sex is akin to hunger and is a natural desire that can't be repressed.

Attitudes toward sex vary considerably from Thailand to the U.K. to the United Arab Emirates but no country is immune to rape just as no country is immune to murder or theft as they are all natural in the animal world and underneath the society which protects us we are animals.

In Thailand it seems it is accepted providing it doesn't damage tourism and in the U.K. it is less taboo and there is plenty of help for victims, possibly more than anywhere else.

These are some great insights. I'm glad to see a woman agrees with at least some of the things I have to say.

However, I do not believe that rape is more acceptable in Thai society. For several reasons:

First, Thailand has strong freedom of the press. The newspapers here criticize Thaksin relentlessly (which I don’t agree with), even more than Americans criticize Bush. And if you can understand Thai and listen to the popular morning female talk shows on Channel 3, they always bring up the topic of rape.

Second, I actually think woman as a group have more power than the men in Thailand. When I say this, I'm referring to the large and influential middle-class. I believe that of the college-educated, the median salary for women is likely higher. I know this issue is debatable, so I won't press this too much.

Third, Thailand is extremely hard on crime. They give death sentences for drugs. They give death sentences even when criminals confess, such as in this case. And after hearing stories about the Thai jails, I almost think I would prefer a death sentence versus life imprisonment in one of those hel_l-holes.

Edited January 19, 2006 by gurkle

[blabbel]

Thank you, Blabbel, for according respect and appreciation over a point of view that I know you don't quite agree with, yet have taken the time to digest with a sincere effort towards understanding. May all members take note of a great example of etiquette that works very well.

Thanks for this and your further elaboration.

I am sorry to disappoint now for not wanting to continue, in this topic about rape, but I think it is as you said:

Why does a woman minding her own business find herself in the wrong place at the wrong time? Nobody knows why. And there is a good chance nobody will ever know. The reasons are multi-faceted. And much to deep to enter into without truly writing volumes.

[blabbel]

I think criminals rape others for sex, not power. Otherwise, they would not "finish" the act of sex, thereby leaving DNA evidence.

Sex is like hunger, it's a human necessity for males. Hence the availability of affordable sex in Thailand results in a significantly lower incidence of rape than in the U.S. I also think that the lack of affordable sex in the U.S. results in more serial killers and pedophilia than anywhere else in the world. These concepts do not exist in Thai society.

In any event, I think rape should still be considered a violent crime with stiff sentences. If anyone raped someone I knew, I would hope they get the death sentence.

But at least more enlightened societies such as Singapore realize the connection between a lack of affordable sex and violent crimes and reduce it by legalizing prostitution.

A most peculiar comment, I had to read it 3 times to believe my eyes.

"I think criminals rape others for sex, not power. Otherwise, they would not "finish" the act of sex, thereby leaving DNA evidence."

Could it be that rapists, like other criminals who leave incriminating evidence, don't think about getting caught at the time?

How could rape not be about power, since it isn't defined as rape unless power over the other against their consent is exerted?

I suggest that sex is the medium through which power is exerted.

"Sex is like hunger, it's a human necessity for males. Hence the availability of affordable sex in Thailand results in a significantly lower incidence of rape than in the U.S."

Are you suggesting that rapist haven't had sex for a long time before the event? What nonsense.

There are less 'reported' rapes in Thailand than the US, the possible reasons for this have been mentioned already, so your assertion fails to convince.

Btw, asserting power over the other is also a component of prostitution, but I don't want to open this can of worms on this forum.

"I also think that the lack of affordable sex in the U.S. results in more serial killers and pedophilia than anywhere else in the world. These concepts do not exist in Thai society."

Absence of affordable sex='more'serial killers & pedophilia? That's a wild speculation, is it supported by stats in other countries? What does the absence of the concept in Thailand prove, if anything?

"In any event, I think rape should still be considered a violent crime with stiff sentences."

So it is about violence, not just sex, after all?

....

Ohh, I almost forgot to reply to this one:

You are confused.

You weren't asking for a definition, yet you are the only one in this thread (and there are many men posting) who was questioning the presence of violence, and the meaning of violence (for men). Please own up to what you say, was it YOU, or "most men" who posted:

I keep hearing this word VIOLENT.......having attended many rape cases in court there usually is very little violence in the true sense of the word....

Let me quote the relevant bit from dictionary.com:

"violence:

4. abusive or injust exercise of power"

and definitions 1,2,3 + were ????

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=violence

Now I've satisfied your curiousity, care to respond to the rest of my post?

Edited January 19, 2006 by blabbel

[gburns57au]

1. Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.

2. The act or an instance of violent action or behavior.

3. Intensity or severity, as in natural phenomena; untamed force: the violence of a tornado.

4. Abusive or unjust exercise of power.

5. Abuse or injury to meaning, content, or intent: do violence to a text.

6. Vehemence of feeling or expression; fervor.

I believe that this is the definition I was looking for and the one that is less seen in most rape cases I have witnessed...

I agreed that an action against the will of a person was a form of violence as much as merely touching someone is an assault if it is uninvited.

The high lighted definition relates to what I said...and most men would see a violent rape as falling under definition 1.....women tend to see it as being under definition 4. That is understandable as in most cases it is the woman who has been violated.

Once again Blabs....you pick only what suits you and not the other relevent bits....you would have read the whole thing but chose only to post that one section when you knew full well what I was on about.....

Now I've satisfied your curiousity, care to respond to the rest of my post?

Nah.....you aint worthy me old son....more twists and turns about you than a snake going over broken glass.