My Observations On This Forum Section

[loong]

Hope that things go well for you Khonwan.

[David Peters]

Hope that things go well for you Khonwan.

Usually in cases like this the insurance companies get involved. With first class insurance the relatives (wife?) of the deceased can receive about 300,000 baht and then with that compulsory third class insurance another 200-300,000 baht. Total about 600,000 baht. In many cases this amount is sufficient to pay and one doesn't have to pay out of one's own pocket. Then comes the court appearances. Okay the judge says, "you have paid the money, admitted guilt, we sentence you to 4 years in jail, reduced to two years suspended if you do community services for so many hours. Report monthly to the police station and sign in". I sincerely hope Khonwan you got a decent lawyer and had a good insurance company.

[Livinginexile]

i miss your posts too!

I'm a city guy that's entered the farming life and have been soaking up all the info expats (especially you) post on this forum. My wife is a city girl too and we havn't a clue how to run a farm but it is both our dream to live a country life. So we try.

Just block those azzholes.

Good to see you back

Edited August 4, 2012 by Livinginexile

[Lickey]

Strange post, Lickey. My OP was not about me; why should I place it in your sob thread, which I’ve never contributed to since I’m not one to sob, despite my own health problems and despite the fact that I’m going on trial on Monday in Pattaya [heading to Pattaya in 30 minutes] to answer a charge of causing death by careless driving 4 months ago though I contributed 0% to the accident in my opinion? Every challenge has just got to be met head-on.

If you read my post again it is a delving/probing sorta comment, and now youve finally told us whats been upsetting you, im no trick cyclist, but i had an idea something other than what you posted was wrong, wether it was your mrs and kids leaving or your land had been reclaimed, i didnt know, i just felt you were very upset by more than a contradictory post on here, Thats just water of a cassavas leaves surely,,

You have a lot more friends on TV than you might think, all the people who read your posts and dont reply, I for one read all of yours, IA,Ozzydom,and many more, all a great help and so good for information,

Im sure all the posters here wish you the best of luck Khonwan, including myself of course,

Fingers crossed for you mate, Lickey..

[Khonwan]

Thanks for the input, guys.

Mosha, my story is similar to that of your friend though I believe my case is stronger. David, my insurance company can pay whatever they like, as far as I’m concerned, but I have no intention of paying from my pocket (with possible exception to loss of no-claims bonus), unless of course forced to after exhausting an appeals process should it come to that.

Took my family (wife, daughters [11 & 16] and niece [8]) to Jomtien Beach originally for three nights immediately prior to Songkran. We had a great first full day, swimming in the sea, shopping in Pattaya and enjoying a nice meal at a cheap restaurant. Since I was driving, I drank no alcohol. Realising it was well after 9pm, we headed back from Pattaya in my 3-month old, still red-plated, 4x4 Pajero Sport to our hotel in Soi 9, Jomtien Beach Rd.

At around 9.45pm, I’ve just passed Soi 9 as had not seen the soi sign, hidden behind a concrete power pole; my 16 year old has just taken off her seat belt and half-stands up from her seat behind me to tell me I’ve past our soi. I stop to do a U-turn but then decide to drive on a few more meters since the beach side of the road (opposite me) has empty parking lots for double parking – more space, much safer. So I check my mirrors, signal (my 16yo sees this), check mirrors and over my shoulder then, satisfied there are no vehicles behind me, turn right to into the parking bays first before reversing out and heading back to nearby Soi 9.

Almost fully into the parking bay, my side of the car appears to explode. All I know is that my chest is in spasm and I cannot breathe. I’m thinking, there was nothing to crash into me; I must have driven into electric cables: I’m being electrocuted. My wife gets her seat belt off and is looking at me whilst I’m trying to silently mouth to her that I’m going to need resuscitation. She’s not understanding me, though, and is starting to panic, as are the kids now. We all think I’m going to die. Remembering that I’m always saying that I have no fear of death, I relax to accept death…relaxed, I start breathing.

Now I’m aware of a gathering crowd. I’m in a half-conscious state. A very helpful Thai woman is fanning me and giving me one of those “smelling salts” things Thais love whilst my wife is phoning the insurance company and someone (?) is calling an ambulance. I’m now aware that a motorbike has crashed into me; so that’s what happened! My side window offers no visibility now – it has shattered but has not collapsed (for want of a better description). My daughter’s window has completely smashed so I can turn my head just enough to see part of the bike on the ground. I cannot see the rider but I’m assuming he is dead.

My shoulder is in pain. I can see a bulge at my collar bone. My right arm has little strength and I cannot open my door. A policeman (some weeks later, I’m told by the insurance assessor that he was a volunteer policeman) asks me for my passport – I give it to him (it was readily at hand) but tell him that nobody in authority has checked on my condition and that I’m injured, in pain, and unable to exit the car. He takes appropriate command and gets my door jemmied open as the ambulance arrives. I’m unable to alight from the car so am carried out onto a gurney and put into the ambulance which takes me and my family to Pattaya Memorial.

My 16yo daughter, who had been thrown to the other side by the impact, is now complaining of a sore head and arm and is also admitted. I manage to persuade the nurses to put her into my room – they do so by adding a ward bed. We both have X-rays taken – she has no fractures, I’ve a broken collarbone that is misaligned and requires a plate. I’m given a very uncomfortable figure-of-8 sling and painkillers. I also have an ECG test that showed no damage to my heart, which I had been concerned about during my chest spasms.

I now start to listen to my wife and eldest daughter telling me details of the accident that I’ve been unaware of. The driver is male (later turns out to be 24) – he died immediately. He had been riding a 400cc Honda CBR (or something like that). I never saw the bike racing towards me (neither did my daughter on the same side) – we are both 100% certain that the bike had no light on (this was later confirmed by the assessor who told us that the bike, which had been rented had no light fitted, and that it was not registered as it was a put-together, self-build). Loads of witnesses have told them that this guy was road racing with his mate at great speed (I guess, by the impact, that he may have been doing 160kph), who was at the scene. The mate is said to have appeared drunk. They have been racing all day and nearly had an accident with a pickup some 3 hours earlier. The dead chap had not been wearing a crash helmet, which I believe may have saved him since his only apparent injury was to his skull. I found out later that the dead guy had no licence and no insurance, not even the basic compulsory Por Bor Ror. That whole stretch of road has a double yellow line so the guy has compounded his infarctions of the law by attempting to overtake.

There was no possibility of me seeing him in my rear window or mirrors when I commenced the turn given the time of night, his lack of lights, and the distance from me that he had to have been at that point given his speed (as evidenced by the impact and the witnesses).

My 16yo was still complaining of pain in her arm and right-side of her body so she was CT-scanned which showed heavy internal bruising but no serious damage – she was discharged after one night. I persuaded the doctor to operate on me quickly (they were understandably concerned about my daily 350mg of aspirin) since I was in terrible discomfort with the figure-of-8 sling. I was operated during the evening of my first full day and felt much better immediately I was out of theatre, having regained use of my arm. I was hooked up to a saline IV (before and after the op) with injections of painkillers and antibiotic, given vitamins to speed the re-growth of bone, and told I could continue with my usual Ankylosing Spondylitis (a rheumatic form of arthritis principally affecting the spine but other joints also) meds. I felt great so encouraged the doc to discharge me after my 3^rd night.

At police request, I reported to the Jomtien station on my day of discharge along with the claims assessor. I had already typed a full A4 sheet with my statement in English plus detailed sketch of the accident. The senior officer in charge – who was beyond reproach, great in every way – took my statement in Thai (he wouldn’t accept my own written statement but the claims assessor requested this of me for forwarding to the insurance company), told me that I had to be charged with causing death by careless driving, and suggested it would probably be easier for me to simply accept responsibility and let my insurance company pay the father of the deceased say, Bt200,000. I told him that I was blameless but that I accepted that he must so charge me to have the matter properly settled in court since a death had occurred. He was grateful for my understanding, saying that most people were not so understanding. I told him also that I appreciated that my signed acceptance of responsibility would indeed expedite matters but that I was not inclined to having a record attached to me over the death of another to which I was actually blameless. I then confirmed to him that I would not accept responsibility. He explained that it would be very time consuming and necessitate several visits to Pattaya. I told him that I had time since I’m not working – he agreed that I should then fight the charge in court. He kept my passport but gave me an officially confirmed photocopy. He explained that he would not release my badly damaged car until after the cremation – fair enough. A very good Thai friend near my village had heard about the accident and had phoned me to arrange to drive down the 475km to take us back home – this he did.

Around 10 days later, the same officer phoned for me (and my wife) to return to the station to meet with him, the father of the deceased, and the claims assessor assisting me. I offered my condolences to the father (limiting myself to that) and joined the meeting. The father, a naval officer at Sattaheap, entered a claim for Bt5,000,000. This was typed up and I had to sign acknowledgement of receipt of the claim. I speak Thai but do not read it so I ensured that both my wife and the assessor checked it (my wife reading it aloud in Thai) and confirmed that I should sign it. I signed it but also again stated verbally that I had not driven carelessly. The officer mentioned that I HAD turned right into the car-parking bays ACROSS the double yellow lines. I had anticipated this and researched the law whilst at home, printing off proof in Thai that the yellow lines prohibited overtaking and not right turns or U-turns (similar to most countries and most states in USA). The assessor confirmed that I’d shown him with a copy of the Thai Highway Code explicitly stating this in Thai. The officer said he was no lawyer but that the court would sort it out.

The father took his leave, with him and me shaking hands and wishing each other chokdee. With the father’s departure, the officer expressed some shock at the amount claimed, as did we all. He then gave me the release document for retrieval of my car from the pound in Pattaya. I asked for my passport but he wanted to keep it for the duration. I explained that I required it for the 90-days address report to Immigration due the following week. He said I already possessed a confirmed copy of the passport that should suffice. I affirmed that Immigration would require the actual passport and also stated that, to the best of my knowledge, he had no authority to keep it in the circumstances of this charge. He pondered this then returned it to me, agreeing that it was very unlikely that I would abscond.

Around a month ago, I was phoned by the officer and told to report to the Pattaya Public Prosecutor and to bring my insurance representative. I reported to the court building and met the insurance company manager. I and other defendants (unrelated cases) were then led down to the holding cells with my wife allowed to accompany me to translate (written) Thai, where we remained for around 6 hours, not inside the locked cells with chained prisoners but in an attached air conditioned room, sitting on a hard straight-backed wooden bench that was murder on my back. The Thais had to pay Bt200 to sit here rather than in the cells but the foreigners (a Japanese man and myself) were not asked to pay; the rate was an official fee as it was printed and posted on the wall.

I was eventually given a copy of the charge prepared by the prosecutor (or procurator fiscal in Scottish law) and had my wife read it to me. I was somewhat alarmed. The charge basically stated that I had not slowed down before commencing my turn and that I had not indicated my turn. This was completely untrue but could I prove it?

I and some others, mostly in chains, were then led up the long flight of stairs into a small court room. A judge addressed us individually, not from his normal seat but from a desk in the middle of this small room, below that seat. When my name was eventually read, 8 hours after arriving at the court, I stood to acknowledge the judge (as per the protocol) then sat to quite informally discuss the case with him. I explained that the description of the accident written by the prosecutor was incorrect and that I had witnesses who could confirm this. He indicated that these witnesses would prove very useful to my case (of course). A date was set for my first full court hearing (tomorrow) and bail set (I learned later that bail was set at Bt200,000, which I understand is normal and is covered by the fully comprehensive first class insurance). We were all then led back to the bowels of the court building where I had to wait for another hour before my insurance guy got his turn to pay my bail. That was a horrible day of extreme frustration.

Before returning home the following day, I had my wife phone the senior police officer who had always dealt with us to ascertain how the charge was described as explained. He affirmed that the police had not stated this but that they had only described the accident as per my statement to them, clearly stating that I had stopped and indicated before turning. He said he was happy to attend the court to state this should he be called. I was happier on hearing that this false accusation had not come from him. My 16yo daughter saw me indicating; my wife and 11yo daughter saw the indicator was still on after the crash whilst they stood outside beside the volunteer policeman (Thai). I had my wife again phone the senior officer to obtain the name of that person as a witness but he said he wasn’t sure who it was – I expect my lawyer should be able to trace him. I explained to my wife that it was vital for us to find other witnesses since I considered it unlikely that the court would place much weight on my family’s testimony. The claims assessor already had two witnesses but when I had my wife phone him to ask about their testimony he said that they witnessed the two riders road-racing at speed before one crashed into me. They had not yet been asked whether they had noticed me indicating. Nor could I be sure that the volunteer policeman would remember after all this time.

My wife and I have continued to stay at the same hotel in Soi 9 on each of these related visits. After an enjoyable meeting with Brabo yesterday evening (good meeting with you, Brabo!), we returned to our hotel. My wife stopped first at a food vendor at the bag-soi to eat and got talking to her: she remembered the accident well and stated that she had seen my indicators on. She also affirmed that all of the many street vendors that night would have seen them. Excellent news!

I think tomorrow’s hearing is an evidentiary discovery. Nothing will be settled tomorrow.

Thanks, Lickey et al, for your continued good wishes. Your conclusion though, Lickey, is wrong. My surgeon had discharged me without an arm sling and with the simple advice that I should not drive or hang from a bus strap for six weeks and that it would take a year before I could do any heavy work on the farm. Not being someone who likes to do nothing, I overused my right arm in what I thought was light-enough work. I visited a hospital in Nakhon Sawan after six weeks to request an X-ray since I felt all was not well. The picture clearly showed that the collarbone and the plate were significantly bent, almost to the breaking point of the plate. I was told I must wear a sling for four weeks and do absolutely nothing. I followed his advice. With enforced rest for four weeks I had plenty of time to do nothing but use the internet in general and read ThaiVisa in particular. It was what I was reading in this farming forum that caused me to start this thread. I’ve not really lost sleep over this accident. I’ve always expected to be vindicated and I’ve always said to my family and friends that (just as Mosha said) the 24yo effectively committed suicide.

Sorry for the length of this epic but I hope it may prove useful info should a reader find themselves in a similar situation here in Thailand.

Rgds

Khonwan

(Edited to correct spacing)

Edited August 5, 2012 by Khonwan

[Rsquared]

Thank you for sharing that with us Khonwan...........you are a better man than me.......I would not have slept a wink if I was in your shoes.

Even though I agree with you that you are 100% innocent, I would still have the heebie-jeebies, just knowing that we are in a different country with different values etc.

I wish you all the best with the forthcoming hearings.

Cheers.

[loong]

From your description of the accident Khonwan, I wouldn't have thought that the rider was overtaking. Sounds like he was actually driving on the wrong side of the road.

Hopefully photos of damage to the bike and car, as well as you and your daughter's injuries and witness statements, will indicate that he was travelling at well above the speed limit.

As you had effectively parked, I would hope that there is no way that they would pin responsibility for this on you.

So a motorcyclist, with no driving licence, was riding at excessive speed on the wrong side of the road, at night with no lights managed to hit a stationary vehicle in a designated parking area. If he died from a head injury, a major contributing factor to his death was that he was not wearing a helmet.

I would hope that there is a coroner's report that states cause of death and whether he had been drinking alcohol.

Let's hope that the judge throws this out as quickly as possible.

[somo]

Good luck today Khonwan.

I do admire you taking such a strong stand.

I am not sure I would have been able to in the same situation. Letting the insurance cough up and avoiding all the hassle would probably have been too tempting,

Keep us all up to date as although nothing to do with farming it is interesting and useful to get an inside view of how the Thai justice process works.

I also fully understand your accident as many years ago in the UK I had a similar one. I was turning right into a pub car park ((so hadn't had a drink) when another car hit me a glancing blow on the RHS and went on to hit a lamp post. He could have easily overtaken on the inside as there was space. Thankfully I had no case to answer.

[Brabo]

It was nice meeting you this week, Khonwan.

I wish you all the best and all the luck you can get @ court today.

[Khonwan]

Thanks again guys. Loong, I believe you have summed up the accident perfectly; I hadn’t considered that but you may well be correct that he could have been on the wrong side to begin with, though I don’t think it would make a difference to my case. Somo, I’m just following my life-long nature. I’d have owned up straight away and let the insurance take care of things had I believed myself to be at fault but I simply cannot take that road out in these circumstances and be true to myself. I must admit, Rsquared, that I didn’t get much sleep at the hotel these past two nights but that’s par for the course for me when away from my own bed.

Not too much to report yet. The appointment card stated I was to be at the court for 9.00AM so my lawyer (from the insurance company) said he wanted me to be there at 8.00AM since we had not met or discussed the case. I was there at exactly 8.00AM, he turned up at around 9.40AM. My wife and I had found the court room for our hearing (all the day’s hearings are posted outside the main entrance) and entered at around 9.30AM.

A court officer asked about my 16yo daughter (she’ll be 16 in October) – we explained we had not brought her since she was at school. He told me she would be required since she is mentioned as an injured party in the charge. He asked me whether I preferred her testimony to be taken by the court at Nakhon Sawan (where we live) or here in Pattaya. I said I’d bring her to Pattaya.

The prosecutor then approached, introduced himself, and started speaking with me informally but about the charge (judge not yet present). He spoke in a friendly manner but tried to persuade me that I might as well just let the insurance company cough up and also mentioned that the motorbike had only being doing 60kph so wasn’t speeding. I told him that the insurance company may pay what they wish, as far as I’m concerned, but that there was no way that I was going to accept responsibility for the accident since I knew in my heart that I was blameless. I also told him that his claim of 60kph was nonsense and that the photographs that would be produced showing the damage to my car, along with several witness statements would prove he was riding at high speed, probably around 160kph. My lawyer came in at this point.

It was obvious within minutes of meeting my lawyer that he knew nothing of my case – zero details, not even that the assessor had the names of two witnesses or that photographs were available. I have lived long enough in Thailand to be neither shocked nor fazed by this.

The judge (not the same judge I saw at my bail hearing) entered, cleared some outstanding cases for other defendants, then called my name. My lawyer indicated me to come out of the public benches and stand before the judge. I then requested the judge, in Thai, to allow me to conduct my defence in English with my wife assisting with translation, stating that I was concerned my Thai would come across as too childish. He replied in very good English that whilst he could easily conduct the hearing in English since he studied in the USA, he was limited by Thai law to either conduct the hearing in only Thai or to have a certified translator hired by the court to ensure accurate recording of the hearing and full understanding by all parties. I agreed with him that I should then avail myself of his offer. As none was immediately available, he postponed our hearing until 3^rd September.

As we awaited completion of the formal document setting out those terms, my lawyer suggested we go to the site of the accident to better describe the events. I also brought him up to speed as to my version of events, the nature of the evidence photographed, and witness statements. He appeared confident that, once this evidence is presented to the court, my defence should prevail. As he returned to Bangkok, I told my wife that I now feel confident in his representation of me as he showed appropriate interest in the details of the case, was free with his opinions, and fully supported my stance.

My wife and I will return home tomorrow morning. I’ll keep you updated next month via this thread.

Rgds

Khonwan

[somo]

Well at least they didn't lock you up which is worth at least a couple of celebratory beers

It sounds like everyone is being fair which is better than I expected to be honest but the usual inflexibility of just making what is a fairly clear decision in favour of dragging things out is par for the course unfortunately.

[transam]

My thoughts are with you. Trans

[Rsquared]

Thanks again Khonwan.......sounds like things are moving in the right direction for you so far.

Take care.

[JungleBiker]

Thanks Khonwan for sharing this interesting story. I hope the father seeking 5 million baht is made to pay for all your expenses related to visiting the court, and for the precious time that he his causing you and your family to waste. Rather than trying to get rich, perhaps he should be taking responsibility for his son's crimes by apologizing and paying money to you for the losses, damages, inconvenience and pain suffered by you and your family.

All the best,

JB.

[loong]

Thanks Khonwan for sharing this interesting story. I hope the father seeking 5 million baht is made to pay for all your expenses related to visiting the court, and for the precious time that he his causing you and your family to waste. Rather than trying to get rich, perhaps he should be taking responsibility for his son's crimes by apologizing and paying money to you for the losses, damages, inconvenience and pain suffered by you and your family.

All the best,

JB.

I must admit that I really have no clue how the court system works here, but I would have thought that any claim by the Father would be a separate civil action.

Today I was pulling out of Tesco Lotus, North KhonKaen. Frontage road, so traffic is only allowed to travel north. Big truck parked right on the corner so I had restricted vision to the left. Nothing coming from the right, so I pulled out. Motorbike zipped across me at high speed going the wrong way. If i had pulled out a half second earlier, the motorbike would have hit me. I could so easily have been in a similar position to Khonwan.

[Mosha]

I almost hit a Prison Wagon. They altered the highway to make it easier for visa runs from Chumpon to the Andaman club. They created an underpass to assist traffic turning right. Problem is traffic use the exit/entry ramps to pass slow moving traffic.I'd been on a visa run and was approaching the entry ramp. I had right of way. As I was turning left Sopha yelled stop. The prat missed me by inches

[jamescollister]

Kunwan, hope all goes well in the court case, but a word of warning, be sure you have all the facts and possible outcomes before fighting the good fight,

You say the car was on red plates, my understanding is that red plates are not allowed to be on the road after 1800hrs or driven outside of the province Think there is some kind of log you must fill in if you do so.

My opinion, should not make a lot of difference in the traffic case, but could effect the insurance coverage, but the court may or may not take a different view.

The insurance company will be covering it's own ass and you should cover yours as well. Jim

[Mosha]

When we bought our truck I was told only to stay in Ranong, until we go the white plates. However

[Khonwan]

Hi guys, back home again and had a decent sleep in my own bed.

Somo, the procedures have been mostly fair but the prosecutor’s written charge statement has caused some comments by some knowledgeable Thai friends – I can’t expand on this in a public forum. Not a problem though – only makes me more determined to win.

Thanks for your comments, Trans and JB; I agree with you, JB, that I should sue for damages. I mentioned this to the insurance manager on the day of my bail hearing: he said I could go after the father based on the new law brought in by Abhisit’s government that holds parents legally responsible for the actions of their children, and the deceased was still dependant on his father since he was a student. I have been requesting/keeping receipts for my hotel stays and fuel costs incurred on every mandated visit to Pattaya. I plan to discuss this with an independent lawyer after my case is concluded. I also decided, yesterday, that I would like to include the other road racer (or his father) in that suit since the actual illegal road race caused the accident. I’ll need to satisfy myself, first, that the probability of a successful outcome outweighs the effort involved.

Jim, red plates have no relevance to the charge (as you have acknowledged) or to the insurance. Red plates are simply a form of what we Brits would call garage plates – the regulations restricting time and geographical area of driving are, in my opinion, motivated by the need of the police to verify ownership, which can only be done in business hours. The regulation is very rarely enforced – I’ve had 3 red plated cars, which have been thus for at least three months on each occasion; I’ve driven them in multi provinces during those periods and very often at night – never been mentioned, not even by cops pulling me over for speeding on the highways. With regards to this accident, despite everyone connected to the case knowing I had red plates, it has not been even mentioned. Indeed, we got word from our dealer, whilst I was still in hospital, that our actual plates had arrived. We told the police and were instructed to bring them with us on our next visit and hand them in; we were also told by the same senior officer to go to the pound and have the red plates removed for return to the dealer, which we did.

Repair of my Pajero is not complete since Mitsubishi is still awaiting parts from Japan. Fortunately, I still have my 6yo Vigo.

A positive development in my case that seals my success: My wife and I spoke with three food vendors who witnessed the entire accident. I asked two of them (these two will be enough) to agree to be named as witnesses; they agreed – their names and phone number will now be forwarded to my lawyer today. You were correct, Mosha: the deceased was racing (at great speed) on the wrong side of the road whilst his mate was racing on the correct side. One witness said to the other that the biker was going to crash into me before he did a second later. They witnessed that I properly indicated, that I was actually already into the parking bay at the point of collision (though not yet stationary, Loong), and formed the opinion that I was in no way responsible for the accident. They also stated that the deceased had a girl riding pillion minutes before who, whilst stationary near their stall, had told the deceased to stop driving so fast as he was scaring her – she got off the bike just before his final & fatal drive.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Khonwan]

I’ve just read Mosha’s link. Thought I should just add that my insurance company has already paid out Bt104,000 for my hospital bill, Bt13,000 for my daughter’s hospital bill, Bt2,500 for the police pound, tow-truck from the pound to Mitsubishi in Pattaya, tow-truck again from there to Mitsubishi in Nakhorn Sawan. Mitsu in Pattaya reckoned it will cost Bt80-90,000 (just an instant rough estimate) to repair the damage, which has already been authorised. They have also agreed to pay the costs of my follow-up medical treatment up to the total cap between themselves and the Por Ror Bor. I am happy to recommend them: Sri Muang Tokyo Marine.

Rgds

Khonwan

[WormFarmer]

My sympathies and best wishes for a speedy and just outcome of his case go to Khonwan - but haven't we drifted away from the original and worthwhile subject of this thread?

[Khonwan]

Hi WF. I appreciate your point. The thread just morphed into this. To be honest, I thought the thread as originally started had run its course anyway but I’m happy for it to go back on topic should anyone have more to contribute.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Rsquared]

I agree with you Khonwan, the original post has run it's course.

@ Worm Farmer, it was due to member's requests and concerns of Khonwans accident and subsequent court hearings that he has been so kind to share his experiences with us......and to save starting a whole new topic, it just morphed into what it is now.

Thanks again Khonwan..........Take Care.

[Khonwan]

My latest update (leaving it in this thread where it was first published):

The month preceding today’s hearing:

I’ve mentioned already that the police senior investigating officer believed that it was illegal for me to have turned right across the double unbroken lines dividing the road. The prosecutor mentioned the same in our pre-hearing chit-chat last month. My own lawyer told me the same when I, on the day of the hearing last month, did a U-turn just beyond the accident spot with him in my car. I argued with them all that the Thai Highway Code only states “No overtaking, no straddling” (but in Thai, of course).

So I went to the Nakhon Sawan department for driving and vehicle testing and first asked a female officer whether a right turn across such a double unbroken line on a long straight road with no other signs prohibiting right turns or U-turns in order to enter premises (to use UK terminology; by the way, UK traffic law allows such a right turn). She told me, “Yes, of course you can do that; absolutely…no doubt about it” (paraphrasing her Thai). But, as we were leaving, she asked a male colleague who said, “Absolutely not! You would certainly be breaking the law.” I asked him to back up his statement with reference to a specific section of the law, but he could not; he had no access to the books, he said. I told him he was wrong.

So I spent several days researching the Internet and obtained copies of the Thai Traffic Act in Thai and an English translation. I was more convinced than ever that I was right but I had to convince my lawyer first, the court.

I then had my wife phone the very useful government help number, 1111, and be put through to a government lawyer who promptly identified himself. To ensure my wife asked the right question, I wrote it out in English and insisted she right it out in Thai, which she did then put it to him in my presence. The lawyer asked her for the location and she told him that it was near Soi 9, Beach Road, Jomtien – he knew it. He asked if there are any signs there prohibiting right-turns or U-turns: my wife told him truly that there are none. He left her on hold for a few minutes while he checked something then told her that right turns and even U-turns across double unbroken lines is permitted on such a straight road (i.e. no visibility issues such as there would be on a bend) in the absence of signs prohibiting them and that the lines by themselves only prohibit overtaking or straddling. Yes!

I had my wife write up the conversation immediately after the phone-call, record his name and the exact time of call. She then phoned my lawyer who immediately stated that he now knew this since he had researched it after our previous meeting. Double good news since it also meant that he had put some effort into my case!

The hearing:

An anti-climax! It was listed at the front door to start at 9.30am this morning but my case started around 11.00 and was over by around 11.15. The court had brought a translator down from Bangkok (the locals apparently prove unreliable in that they promise to appear then don’t, I’m told). I was asked to plead so pleaded not guilty to all charges. My lawyer asked me to verify my signatures on the police documents and asked me to state whether the police-drawn sketch of the accident was accurate. My reply was relayed to the judge, which was that the sketch was not completely accurate and that I would supply one myself. Names of witnesses on both sides were recorded and the judge decided a 3-day hearing would be set.

And thus the hearing ended! Next hearing is 20-22 March 2013. The wheels of justice grind slowly.

Rgds

Khonwan

[somo]

Thanks for the update.

It's a long way off but please keep us informed as it is really instructive.

Better they grind slowly than not at all. Injustice is usually served fast.

[pigeonjake]

good luck to you john,, im sure youll be ok,,

keep your chin up mate,(i know you will) and we,ll have a drink and a chat at christmas

jake

[JungleBiker]

Thanks Khonwan for the update.

Based on the experience of a friend of mine, there will probably be many more such hearings spread over a period of several years. Like I said before, I hope the father ends up paying you for all your costs and time wasted.

I suspect that the father had already agreed from the start to share the spoils with the investigating police officer and prosecutor (and possibly the judge), hence their attempt to find you in the wrong with regards to crossing the double unbroken lines.

In the meantime, I hope corrupt officials don't arrange for signs prohibiting U-turns/right turns to be erected near the accident scene and then later in court provide forged documents showing that they've been there since before the accident.

All the best,

JB.

[zzdocxx]

Time tends to dull people's memories.

I wonder if your attorney has taken written and signed statements from the witnesses at the food stall?

Good luck!

[Khonwan]

Will do, Somo.

Thanks, Jake – see you Christmas.

Thanks JB. I checked out the entire road on Saturday – still no signs anywhere…yet! I asked my lawyer (tongue-in-cheek, I thought) whether the case would be completed by April 2015 but he said not necessarily since if we were to lose this round the insurance company would fully support me through an appeal.

My concern also, Zzdocxx. I mentioned this to my lawyer but it didn’t seem important to him (he hasn’t even spoken to them yet though has their phone number). I saw the two main witnesses on Monday night and told them that it would be March before they would be called and that I too was concerned they may have forgotten the details by then but the guy told me he had a very clear recollection and would not forget. I’ll encourage my lawyer to contact them sooner than later for their statement. Thanks.

Rgds

Khonwan

[RedBullHorn]

Take video on the stretch of road or progressive picture bearing date and time to show there's no signs to indicate prohibited turning...

That's what my lawyer instructed me to do then... and yes, i won the case~