Any Full Time Day Stock Traders Here?

[Chivas]

The OP's post reads as if he has zero experience trading equities, much less day trading.

My advice is to spend the next 3 - 5 years learning the profession, then consider quitting his day job and then rely on income from trading. That is if he has any capital left.

Trading equities is not for the faint of heart and those that don't have deep enough pockets to suffer setbacks. Many think, wow, I can make a living trading stocks. Why I don't know. It's like someone flying a kite thinking they can fly a 747 without any formal training. Sure you can try it, but don't be surprised when you crash and burn.

Agree Entirely......

I've been somewhat bemused also through out the thread with the apparent interest of only trading the Thai Markets !!

From reading many of the Posts a simple Spread Betting account would be more appropriate for most apart from Americans.

[ExpatJ]

I will do more research into day trading but or now will stick with my (I had to look this up) "swing trading"- which is basically buying selling from 1 day to 3 weeks. I have found this timing to be most effective for me especially in light of current economic woes in EU and elsewhere which I my mind makes buy and hold a lot more risky than in the past.

[fletchsmile]

I will do more research into day trading but or now will stick with my (I had to look this up) "swing trading"- which is basically buying selling from 1 day to 3 weeks. I have found this timing to be most effective for me especially in light of current economic woes in EU and elsewhere which I my mind makes buy and hold a lot more risky than in the past.

The phrase "swing trading" always makes me smile. Reminds me of scantily clad Germans in tight black leather outfits putting their car keys in a hat and "trading" their spouses for an evening's entertainment

[midas]

apart from the fact that the stock market looks nothing like a real market these days in terms of

HFT etc, i just think you would need to be very brave ( or desperate ) to step in right now with what is coming ?

i mean i would hardly think that closure of the Hormuz Straights would be bullish for stocks ?

US, Israeli, Saudi and Iranian war preparations are on fast forward, as the coming issue of DEBKA-Net-Weekly discloses in detail next Friday. All their leaders face agonizing decisions in the weeks ahead. US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta is on a tour of inspection to make sure US Middle East military forces are ready for an operation against Iran. Its timeline is now pared down to weeks because Iran's ongoing mega-fortifications threaten to make its nuclear facilities indestructible - even by American super-weapons.

To subscribe to DEBKA-Net-Weekly, click here.

http://www.debka.com...t-for-Iran-war-

and dont forget what the Chinese have warned

Edited August 6, 2012 by midas

[yoshiwara]

You can get caught out on swing trading as well. I know!

[landslide]

My job ended 2 years ago, and finding a new position at my age (58) has not been easy. Add a buypass operation 14 months ago, and job hunting becomes more difficult. I have been trading the US market during this time to provide an income and continue to build my retirement account. I currently trade 20% of my portfolio account, about $150K. I basically trade within my career industry, which was oil refining and marketing. Some trades are for only a few hours, while others may go on for weeks. It really depends on the direction of the market, and the timing of your entry and exit. Anyone who says they can time buying and selling during the day or even during the week, is kidding themselves. You have to trade stocks you understand, and only trade with money that you can commit for longer periods of time, even if you hold short term. Any profit I make, after covering my living expenses, is transfered bi-annually into my long term portfolio. My return on investment for the 2 years has been 112%. During that 2 years, I made 87 total trades (that is both buy and sell combined), less than one per week. I trade through Fidelity Investments, and the cost per trade is $7.95, though I receive free trades every time I add money to my portfoilo. My long term portfolio, which I rebalance every 6 months, returned 26% during that period of time, which I consider pretty good. The companies I focus on are solid, pay some dividend, good growth prospects, and have a history of some volatility. You have to stay disciplined (the lack of which cost me at first), set your buy and sell targets, and stick to them. You cannot get greedy. I have held stocks past my targets, only to see the shares retrace below my buy point because I held, thinking it would rebound. Be prepared for doubts and second guessing yourself, then get over it. If you cannot monitor your trades during the open market, set your stop loss points and sell points. You may miss a price runup or a price rebound, but you avoid big reversals. Remember that each trade takes 3 business days to clear, and unless you have a margin account, that cash is unavailable to trade until cleared. Also, profits, unless tax sheltered in a retirement account, are treated as ordinary income, not long term capital gains, and subject to income tax for local, state and federal taxes. Just my 2 cents.

[fletchsmile]

My job ended 2 years ago, and finding a new position at my age (58) has not been easy. Add a buypass operation 14 months ago, and job hunting becomes more difficult. I have been trading the US market during this time to provide an income and continue to build my retirement account. I currently trade 20% of my portfolio account, about $150K. I basically trade within my career industry, which was oil refining and marketing. Some trades are for only a few hours, while others may go on for weeks. It really depends on the direction of the market, and the timing of your entry and exit. Anyone who says they can time buying and selling during the day or even during the week, is kidding themselves. You have to trade stocks you understand, and only trade with money that you can commit for longer periods of time, even if you hold short term. Any profit I make, after covering my living expenses, is transfered bi-annually into my long term portfolio. My return on investment for the 2 years has been 112%. During that 2 years, I made 87 total trades (that is both buy and sell combined), less than one per week. I trade through Fidelity Investments, and the cost per trade is $7.95, though I receive free trades every time I add money to my portfoilo. My long term portfolio, which I rebalance every 6 months, returned 26% during that period of time, which I consider pretty good. The companies I focus on are solid, pay some dividend, good growth prospects, and have a history of some volatility. You have to stay disciplined (the lack of which cost me at first), set your buy and sell targets, and stick to them. You cannot get greedy. I have held stocks past my targets, only to see the shares retrace below my buy point because I held, thinking it would rebound. Be prepared for doubts and second guessing yourself, then get over it. If you cannot monitor your trades during the open market, set your stop loss points and sell points. You may miss a price runup or a price rebound, but you avoid big reversals. Remember that each trade takes 3 business days to clear, and unless you have a margin account, that cash is unavailable to trade until cleared. Also, profits, unless tax sheltered in a retirement account, are treated as ordinary income, not long term capital gains, and subject to income tax for local, state and federal taxes. Just my 2 cents.

Interesting post and some good points.

You might want to reconsider your broker. None of the brokers I use in UK, Singapore (including for US exchanges) or Thailand require me to wait until trades are cleared/ settled to be able to trade the proceeds. If I sell a share the proceeds are available to trade again immediately - no need to wait 3 days for settlement. The only restriction is that I cannot withdraw the cash from the account until the trade is settled and the cash cleared, which is fair enough. These days you shouldn't need to wait for settlement before trading the proceeds.

US has always been draconian on tax. Glad those conditions don't apply to me

Edited August 7, 2012 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

My job ended 2 years ago, and finding a new position at my age (58) has not been easy. Add a buypass operation 14 months ago, and job hunting becomes more difficult. I have been trading the US market during this time to provide an income and continue to build my retirement account. I currently trade 20% of my portfolio account, about $150K. I basically trade within my career industry, which was oil refining and marketing. Some trades are for only a few hours, while others may go on for weeks. It really depends on the direction of the market, and the timing of your entry and exit. ...

BTW Any suggestions in the oil and gas industry. I find this one of the most interesting sectors, given the potential for significant moves up and down. I currently hold:

CAN: Africa Oil (AOI), Energulf resources (ENG)

UK: Chariot Oil and Gas (CHAR), Tower Resources (TRP), Victoria Oil and Gas (VOG), Provident Resources (PVR)

AUS: (SSN) Samson - Bakken play also listed on US, Range Resources (RRS)

US: Kodiak (KOG), Triangle Petroleum (TPLM)

Obviously mainly different end of spectrum to you were saying as these are generally smaller and more speculative junior oils.... also with a focus on Africa as you can see

Edited August 7, 2012 by fletchsmile

[ExpatJ]

Fletchsmile. I have shell oil in US market. 4.8% dividend. I plan to keep for years and reinvest all dividends in the stock

[fletchsmile]

Yes I quite like Shell too. I see it as more as a buy and hold investment for your div thread though at these levels of 2,277p than one for the trading portfolio. I try and differentiate between what I hold short term for trading and what I hold longer term for investment.

If I see RDSA drop below GBP 2000p I like to pick up some for trading, and then aim to take 5% or 10% trading profit whenever it rises again. Below 2,000p although the intention is short term, I know I wouldn't be unhappy holding it longer term if need be, for a quality company on single digit P/E and div yield of 4-5%

[landslide]

BTW Any suggestions in the oil and gas industry. I find this one of the most interesting sectors, given the potential for significant moves up and down. I currently hold:

CAN: Africa Oil (AOI), Energulf resources (ENG)

UK: Chariot Oil and Gas (CHAR), Tower Resources (TRP), Victoria Oil and Gas (VOG), Provident Resources (PVR)

AUS: (SSN) Samson - Bakken play also listed on US, Range Resources (RRS)

US: Kodiak (KOG), Triangle Petroleum (TPLM)

Obviously mainly different end of spectrum to you were saying as these are generally smaller and more speculative junior oils.... also with a focus on Africa as you can see

I like refiners, specifically VLO, HFC, TSO, and WNR. Refiners have been beaten down in the last 4 years. There has been a lot of consolidation within the industry, as well as closed refineries due to inefficiencies. I would stay out of TSO for now, due to the fact they just announced the acquisition of BP's Carson City refinery at about 15% of replacement value. The stock had a huge run following this announcement and the recent Q2 earnings report (huge beat). I would buy on a pullback. HFC and WNR operate within the middle US and the Rockies. The have the advantage of access to both Bakken crude and WTI crude, which currently has a huge price advantage over Brent crude. HFC is essentially debt free, and WNR has paid off 60% of their debt in the last year, and should pay off the balance by the end of 2013. VLO has the advantage of geographical diversity, and some of the most sophisticated refineries. They can process a large percentage of sour crude, which traditionally is cheaper than light, sweet crude.. They recently announced that they will sell their retail operations (projected sale price is between $2 and $4 Billion). I am not a big fan of their management, but they are the largest refiner in the US, and recently acquired Chevron's Pembrook refinery in Britain, and Murphy Oil's St. Charles Refinery. All these companies generate good cash flow, and should continue to improve this. Analysts are now calling for a new "Golden Age of Refining". Increased crude production in the US and Canada is reducing the dependence on Middle East oil. Barring a complete blow up in the Middle East, and if Obama will get out of the way, the US could be energy independent within 12 years. Right now crude prices are being held up by anxiety over the Iran situation, and the Obama Administration roadblocks to drilling and access to development of shale oil deposits, as well as the denial of a permit for a section of the Keystone Pipeline. I am buying on any pullback, especially WNR and VLO.

[copa8]

I'm not day trading from Thailand, though one day I hope to. I trade the U.S. e-mini futures (ES, NQ, YM) via Interactive Brokers. IB's round turn commissions is about $4 per contract. I average about 5 trades per day using 3 contracts, so about $60 in commissions. Trading is very difficult, but more so mentally than anything else. But once you find a system/edge that works, it's the best "job" there is.

[happyAA]

Hi we use Tisco in Thailand , pretty easy to use, and for information use www thaistocks com which is pricey but we feel well worth it. His focus is on small value stocks on the thai market , not day trading. Reckon it's safer. But even these over the years can have wild fluctuations. Many of the stocks have good dividends though, and many not much debt. Overlooked area. Cheers. If you register at the site for free can have a look at it I think. Haven't seen any other competitors. Many of the stocks he researches are too small to be covered by the brokers, hence the inefficiencies. One always has to invest at one's own risk though.

[sumgai]

Day trading is alive but not all that well. Most edges have been eradicated and the (western) stock markets are getting smaller by the day (fewer listed companies, less volume). That said, day trading still works and unless you compete directly with the bots, you can earn. Most profitable traders these days seem to be trading futures spreads.

Using Interactive Brokers and quite satisfied with them.

[osten]

I am a professional trader who focuses primarily on US markets and has been living here in BKK since 2004. I am a "swing trader" rather than a day trader, as I find it suits my style more.

The swing trading service I follow is http://www.morpheustrading.com. The blog on that site has lot of useful information for getting started. The company has been in business since 2002.

As for trading software, I recommend http://www.tradestation.com. Hope that helps.

Osten

Sent from my HTC ChaCha A810e using Thaivisa Connect App

[DGD1]

So does anyone here know anything about any shared office spaces any other traders use to bounce ideas back and forth, etc.? I'm contemplating coming there and getting an EFL job while trading the gaps at the open in the US market (until I can lose the EFL job) mainly with APPL and SPY weekly options. This way I can get in and out before 10-11 pm and make a few hundred $$.

What kind of visa do people with similar goals usually get? I'm not retiring, and may not be working, so...? Just want to move there for a year. Thanks.

[MrRealDeal]

For those using the SET to trade, how is liquidity? Especially on the smaller companies listed.

It's all good and well holding 10,000 shares of a company, and when price is up you want to sell, but only small lots of a few hundred shares are being traded...Or finding sellers when you want to get out of a short position which is on the way up again...

Even on the Nasdaq it could be an issue with smallcap companies (often pennyshares, so you know the risk beforehand)...

Doesn't matter for longer term investments but can be very difficult daytrading...

The Nasdaq does not have penny stocks ........ They are delisted when they falll below 5 dollars per share for to long. You probabbly know that but the way you worded it he might not.

Stocks unfer 5 dollars can not be shorted per SEC regulations

Whoever said daytrrading is gambling and not taxed is wrong on both counts in the US .... both are subject to tax

The amount you want to use is up to you however thier is a US regulation that prohibits daytrading with accounts that fall under 25,000 USD

"Practicing" with funny money does not train you how to use real money , it might teach you how to fill out the order tickets , or manage your screen , but real money and fake are 2 seperate worlds.

If you really just want to buy in the morning and sell you would statisticly be better off selling at about 10 AM not 4 PM or waiting for whatever indicator to turn which would be longer than 1 day in most cases.

Whatever time I feel like working and the only job I have is trading , I have over the years become lazy and now do mostly swing trades a time frame of more like weeks than seconds, minutes , hours , or a day, however if you take the TOTALITY of the information available and not rely on just tech indicators their is nothing wrong with daytrading as long as your solution to the times you lose money is not to use some sort of doubling down type approach , that's what really kills people not the ones that didn't work out but the ones they refuse to let go of and get in deeper and deeper.

Daytrading is a perfectly legitimate and profitable occupation , however just like any other it's not suited for everyone , the difference is that rather than getting just fired or quit if it's not suited to you you lose some of your money and still have to quit or get fired. If you really want to do it I would encourage you to go ahead and see how you do.

Everyone has their own paramaters and style so to speak so I won't waste your time telling you mine or cliam it's any better than another , a million U-tube vids out there to look at and decide for yourself , however just like a lot of things in the world I have found that simple is better , even something as simple as drawing lines on your chart at 12 when stocks are bouncing up and down and buying and selling as it breaks the lines until 4 works most of the time. Using the RSI to buy under 15 and sell over 70 or sooner if you make a decent profit, works most of the time, Buying on open and selling at 10 when futures are up a decent amount works most of the time.

What I am tying to get across on the last is ..... most of the time ....... it's the other times you need to worry about ! If your plan is to "scalp" a little money here and there as often as it makes sence you will be sucsessfull , if your plan is to do it as often as possible you won't be because you will see things that are not really their to often. It's not really all that hard to buy stocks that are a good value based on the time criteria of this min instead of this year , or sell them when they are not , what IS hard is to keep doing it over and over and over each and every day making small amounts without deciding that your life would be simpler and better if you just used a lot more money less often to make the same or more ...... that's what end's your daytrading career for a bunch of reasons I am not going to explain but trust me it's true.

When the guns start blazing everything you thought you would do or everything you did with funny money changes based on your personal psycology , some people take to little profits , some people are not willing to take enough loss , some people don't do enough of both ......... for their personality. If it was really just about mathmatics and charting 1 supercomputer in the world is all Goldman Sacs would need to own the world eventually. It's about IF your personality allows you to take a reasonable but small amount of profit and if your personality allows you to let your stop loss orders execute ..... it's one thing to make them , it's another to let them execute without changing your mind ...... AND some combination of if you are sensible enough to make good initial decisions oten enough so the profits work in your favor enough to make a living.

No one here knows the answer to those questions , not even you until you try , so since you only live once go ahead and give it a shot and see if it's for you or not.

My overall attitude about it is this ...... I don't know why everyone doesn't try it because it's a pretty easy way to make a living IF you have the required personality and thier is nothing so complex that anyone who can't read a graph or do simple math can't understand. ............ It's daytrading not Astrophysics !

Edited January 15, 2013 by MrRealDeal

[yoshiwara]

For those using the SET to trade, how is liquidity? Especially on the smaller companies listed.

It's all good and well holding 10,000 shares of a company, and when price is up you want to sell, but only small lots of a few hundred shares are being traded...Or finding sellers when you want to get out of a short position which is on the way up again...

Even on the Nasdaq it could be an issue with smallcap companies (often pennyshares, so you know the risk beforehand)...

Doesn't matter for longer term investments but can be very difficult daytrading...

The Nasdaq does not have penny stocks ........ They are delisted when they falll below 5 dollars per share for to long. You probabbly know that but the way you worded it he might not.

Stocks unfer 5 dollars can not be shorted per SEC regulations

Whoever said daytrrading is gambling and not taxed is wrong on both counts in the US .... both are subject to tax

The amount you want to use is up to you however thier is a US regulation that prohibits daytrading with accounts that fall under 25,000 USD

"Practicing" with funny money does not train you how to use real money , it might teach you how to fill out the order tickets , or manage your screen , but real money and fake are 2 seperate worlds.

If you really just want to buy in the morning and sell you would statisticly be better off selling at about 10 AM not 4 PM or waiting for whatever indicator to turn which would be longer than 1 day in most cases.

Whatever time I feel like working and the only job I have is trading , I have over the years become lazy and now do mostly swing trades a time frame of more like weeks than seconds, minutes , hours , or a day, however if you take the TOTALITY of the information available and not rely on just tech indicators their is nothing wrong with daytrading as long as your solution to the times you lose money is not to use some sort of doubling down type approach , that's what really kills people not the ones that didn't work out but the ones they refuse to let go of and get in deeper and deeper.

Daytrading is a perfectly legitimate and profitable occupation , however just like any other it's not suited for everyone , the difference is that rather than getting just fired or quit if it's not suited to you you lose some of your money and still have to quit or get fired. If you really want to do it I would encourage you to go ahead and see how you do.

Everyone has their own paramaters and style so to speak so I won't waste your time telling you mine or cliam it's any better than another , a million U-tube vids out there to look at and decide for yourself , however just like a lot of things in the world I have found that simple is better , even something as simple as drawing lines on your chart at 12 when stocks are bouncing up and down and buying and selling as it breaks the lines until 4 works most of the time. Using the RSI to buy under 15 and sell over 70 or sooner if you make a decent profit, works most of the time, Buying on open and selling at 10 when futures are up a decent amount works most of the time.

What I am tying to get across on the last is ..... most of the time ....... it's the other times you need to worry about ! If your plan is to "scalp" a little money here and there as often as it makes sence you will be sucsessfull , if your plan is to do it as often as possible you won't be because you will see things that are not really their to often. It's not really all that hard to buy stocks that are a good value based on the time criteria of this min instead of this year , or sell them when they are not , what IS hard is to keep doing it over and over and over each and every day making small amounts without deciding that your life would be simpler and better if you just used a lot more money less often to make the same or more ...... that's what end's your daytrading career for a bunch of reasons I am not going to explain but trust me it's true.

When the guns start blazing everything you thought you would do or everything you did with funny money changes based on your personal psycology , some people take to little profits , some people are not willing to take enough loss , some people don't do enough of both ......... for their personality. If it was really just about mathmatics and charting 1 supercomputer in the world is all Goldman Sacs would need to own the world eventually. It's about IF your personality allows you to take a reasonable but small amount of profit and if your personality allows you to let your stop loss orders execute ..... it's one thing to make them , it's another to let them execute without changing your mind ...... AND some combination of if you are sensible enough to make good initial decisions oten enough so the profits work in your favor enough to make a living.

No one here knows the answer to those questions , not even you until you try , so since you only live once go ahead and give it a shot and see if it's for you or not.

My overall attitude about it is this ...... I don't know why everyone doesn't try it because it's a pretty easy way to make a living IF you have the required personality and thier is nothing so complex that anyone who can't read a graph or do simple math can't understand. ............ It's daytrading not Astrophysics !

Stats and graphs do not tell you what is happening tomorrow. And do not necessarily predict a reverse of a trend. Sometimes these things appear to work with certain stocks and then they don't. There are no one way bets, and then one gets the Standard Chartered event. Predicted? Of course not. What was said earlier certainly applies. Follow a few stocks you believe in and take it from there. There are no magic formulas. Someone mentioned Shell. Shell price currently yielding 4.9%. One might as well just buy Shell, take the dividends and go to sleep.

[bcowger]

Yes. There's a new group starting in Rawai Beach, called, "Phuket Day-Traders, Rawai Beach" on Facebook. Saturday morning get-togethers. Very informal. No dues. We meet to talk about what we love to do: trade the markets! 

[dj230]

On 5/7/2022 at 2:08 PM, bcowger said:

Yes. There's a new group starting in Rawai Beach, called, "Phuket Day-Traders, Rawai Beach" on Facebook. Saturday morning get-togethers. Very informal. No dues. We meet to talk about what we love to do: trade the markets! 

What are the tax implications in Thailand for Day trader income and long term capital gains profits (over 1 year investments)?

 

I was thinking of transferring my funds to Thailand and paying taxes here, currently paying 50% taxes in Canada and it's killing me.