Death Of My Father In Thailand 3 Weeks Ago

[notouchmonkey]

I'm not sure where to start here, but perhaps to give a little background. My father met a pattaya bar girl 8 years ago, she is much younger than himself (she was 32, he was 62) . Dad came home, she rang him a month later telling him 'my mums gotta have an operation i need money'. dad paid her some money then. he visited her again and they beacme a 'regular thing'. Eventually they moved to her local village down in the south and he built a house on her mums land, fitted it out, got air con, bought a car, etc etc. I visited 'the farm' as he affectionately called it ( i was more inclined to call it a swamp) 3 times over the last few years. As one of his grown up daughters i wrestled with his choices, as i am sure he did with mine over the years, but eventually came to terms with the whole thing. this was dads 3rd marriage, he certainly beleived in enjoying life, but he was wary of women generally and told me once he was sometimes wary of his wife and family, he said he only just trusted her 'so far' he said he would never give her his pin numbers.

to cut to the chase Dad married his wife last summer mainly so she could get the visa to come here for 3 months, it all went very well, we supported dad when other members of the family gave him and wife a difficult time. whilst here he visited a solicitor 3 times to make a will. the first two times, the basic premise was, wife gets everything in thailand, daughters get everything in uk. At the last appointment, his wife accompanied him and it was changed to 'wife gets everything in thailand + £40,000- daughters are the resudual beneficiaries' He didnt have 40k i might add, so this money would come from the sale of the uk property in which his elderly mother lives. Well dad goes back to thailand and within 10 days is dead. We dont really know why, except that he went to hospital with breathing problems. his UK GP, was surprised, having recently seen him and found him to be in good health. by the time my sister and me arrived in thailand, he was embalmed and sealed in a box in the garden. we then watched as the wife visited the cashpoint everyday for our 16 days visit and used his cashpoint cards to take the limit everyday. (she told us he gave her the pin so she could pay the hospital bill) So, what am i asking here?

1] i think his death is suspicious but i also know that bugger all we can do about it, but it would be interesting to get other views.

2] are me and my sister morally OR legally entitled to contest his uk will.

3] we dont want to sell the house to pay the wife cos we will have to evict our elderly gran, do you think wife will agree to wait for the money?

4] if we contest the will, do you think the wife will fight us legally?

[TommoPhysicist]

1) I agree

2) Yes

3) No chance

4) Contest, she might just give up if faced with a costly fight from another country.

So sorry to hear about your loss.

I hope at least you father enjoyed his last years.

You might also wish to report her to the Thai police (or his bank) for using your fathers account after his death. That isn't allowed.

Edited July 30, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[ddpffft]

Well dad goes back to thailand and within 10 days is dead. We dont really know why, except that he went to hospital with breathing problems. his UK GP, was surprised, having recently seen him and found him to be in good health. by the time my sister and me arrived in thailand, he was embalmed and sealed in a box in the garden.

he died in the hospital?

cause of death: unknown, or was something (e.g. heart failure) established...

[Soutpeel]

"he was embalmed and sealed in a box in the garden"

Sorry for your loss, but the above seems a bit werid even for Thailand, the normal MO is cremation, and certainly if there was any foul play, cremation would be the order of the day to conceal any evidence.

Yes you can legally contest the will in the UK and obviously this happens in a UK court and the Widow would have to fight the case in a UK court, obviously one of the reasons cited it that you belive foul play was involved in your fathers demise

[notouchmonkey]

1) I agree

2) Yes

3) No chance

4) Contest, she might just give up if faced with a costly fight from another country.

So sorry to hear about your loss.

I hope at least you father enjoyed his last years.

You might also wish to report her to the Thai police (or his bank) for using your fathers account after his death. That isn't allowed.

thank you for that and for your condolences. Interesting what you said about reporting her to the police. they were uk bank accounts and the mere mention of thailand to them and said bank says we cant chase that. I asked the FCO abour reporting her to the police whilst we were there, they said it would be not be advised whilst we are still in the country. I discussed the whole thing with the wife who told us that in thailand the police wouldnt do anything to her... i'm guessing she's right. She/ they lived in a very small village way down in the nakon area, most of her cousins are police. we weighed up the situation and decided it was too risky to make a fuss.

[Soutpeel]

You might also wish to report her to the Thai police (or his bank) for using your fathers account after his death. That isn't allowed.

Maybe maybe not...not wholly illegal if he willing handed over the card & pin number and there is only her word

Edited July 30, 2012 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

1) I agree

2) Yes

3) No chance

4) Contest, she might just give up if faced with a costly fight from another country.

So sorry to hear about your loss.

I hope at least you father enjoyed his last years.

You might also wish to report her to the Thai police (or his bank) for using your fathers account after his death. That isn't allowed.

thank you for that and for your condolences. Interesting what you said about reporting her to the police. they were uk bank accounts and the mere mention of thailand to them and said bank says we cant chase that. I asked the FCO abour reporting her to the police whilst we were there, they said it would be not be advised whilst we are still in the country. I discussed the whole thing with the wife who told us that in thailand the police wouldnt do anything to her... i'm guessing she's right. She/ they lived in a very small village way down in the nakon area, most of her cousins are police. we weighed up the situation and decided it was too risky to make a fuss.

I think at this point you need to get the UK house and other UK assets sort out via solicitor in UK soonest to stop any immediate claim against the UK house for your grannys sake and any other assets...a solicitor will be able to advise what they can and cant do, one assumes this whole matter has to go through probate anyway

Edited July 30, 2012 by Soutpeel

[ddpffft]

IF he died in a hospital AND a cause of death was established (e.g. diabetes, heart inflammation...), then proving foul play would seem quite impossible (to me)...

signing a will seems sometimes more like signing a death sentence / the own execution order...

Edited July 30, 2012 by ddpffft

[notouchmonkey]

the death certificate was in thai, after the translation, the cause of death was determind as 'heart failure'. dads doctor here says that is ultimately the demise of everyone...in the end, so tells you nothing about what caused the heart to stop.

[notouchmonkey]

"he was embalmed and sealed in a box in the garden"

Sorry for your loss, but the above seems a bit werid even for Thailand, the normal MO is cremation, and certainly if there was any foul play, cremation would be the order of the day to conceal any evidence.

Yes you can legally contest the will in the UK and obviously this happens in a UK court and the Widow would have to fight the case in a UK court, obviously one of the reasons cited it that you belive foul play was involved in your fathers demise

i didnt explain properly i think, he was embalmed and put in a box, then there was praying and feeding the whole village for 15 days, THEN he was cremated. is this normal?

[NanLaew]

A chronology of these alleged events would be good to know as well as knowing where the OP is now. The potted version of events given here make it hard to discern if this happened last year, last month or much more recently. Without knowing the current state of affairs, any advice given here may be at best unnecessary or a waste of time or at worst, totally inappropriate or wrong.

[stoneyboy]

A chronology of these alleged events would be good to know as well as knowing where the OP is now. The potted version of events given here make it hard to discern if this happened last year, last month or much more recently. Without knowing the current state of affairs, any advice given here may be at best unnecessary or a waste of time or at worst, totally inappropriate or wrong.

Well the thread title suggest's that his death occurred only 3 weeks ago,does it not ?

And may I add my condolences to the OP.

Edited July 30, 2012 by stoneyboy

[jacktrip]

Another explanation could be that he knew he was dying and changed things as a result (hey, it happens).

Did the wife know about the will being changed? Often, people do not tell their partners/children what's in their will. I would never tell anyone what's in mine before it's time.

Did you meet the wife? What do you think of her? Most people are not smart/skilled enough to truly hide their intentions. You should have a gut feeling about what happened if you spent any time with her and/or with them as a couple. Thais do have a fake smile sometimes but they are mostly uneducated and frankly simpletons when it comes to manipulation or scams.

Can you dig up the body in the light of a full moon and take it in for your own autopsy? Or have someone come to the burial site to perform an autopsy? I'm not sure what the laws in Thailand are regarding this, but many rural Thais are superstitious and may not want to interefere with your family business. Macabre, but it will help to put questions to rest that may linger for many years. If foul play was suspected you could also lay him to rest somewhere else rather then in that village.

I can't really see working this out legally from the UK with a Thai. Seems like the money would be gone by then, and/or the legal delays would hinder this greatly. How do you do it in another country, and get the legal systems working together? Too complicated.

If it were me I would take this into my own hands, esp father.

1. Pay someone to go do an autopsy and/or retrieve the body.

2. Put father to rest.

3. If evidence of foul play. The get down with the retribution, finances. Either find a way to get the funds out, block her access. Get a lawyer in UK to block her from selling the property, anything, bankruptcy, selling it now and pocketing the money, etc. Many ways of doing this, easier then you may think. Can't get to specific here.

4. Make sure it's justified, you don't want to find out later your father's wishes were genuine and he was ready to go.

Edited July 30, 2012 by jacktrip

[ddpffft]

hmm... then...

-- his last will said, granny has to move out, in case he dies

-- he didnt say, he wishes to be buried in the UK...

the father was healthy and signed at a notary, who is obliged by law to explain the consequences of the will...

[Beetlejuice]

Firstly your elderly grandmother cannot be evicted from the house, because she is a sitting tenant. This means that the property cannot be sold until a court order is obtained for the termination of the tenancy and proper notice is served. The notice cannot be served by you, but only from your father’s widow directly to your grandmother. Also the court’s first priority will be for the welfare of this elderly lady and may rule that she can remain in the house for the remainder of her life. This may require medical reports to confirm that an eviction notice would seriously place her health at risk.

Of course the children of the deceased are morally entitled and can legally contest the will, if believed there has been an injustice in this case with hard evidence to back it up. Even without evidence, you are completely entitled to challenge the terms of the will. Have you obtained medical and cause of death reports from the said Thai hospital? Was the death registered with the FCO?

As for do we think the wife will agree to wait for the money? My answer is; how would we know? My guess is that sweet little wifey doesn’t give a rat’s behind about you or your family and is strictly in this for the cash. She has nothing to lose by fighting this case now that she has your father’s money. Was your father and this woman legally married? If so, was the marriage in Thailand or the UK? Does she have permanent residence to stay in the UK? If not, she may not be permitted into the UK to fight the case.

My advice is, if you have not already done so, is to seek the advice of a reputable lawyer.

[OZEMADE]

1. You stated the doctors/hospitals report after translation said he died of 'Heart Failure' I don't see how there was any foul play here. If there was the doctor and hospital would have reported it to the police and the British Embassy.

2. Yes the creamation is normal in Thailand and more than likley it was performed in the village where he and his wife lived.

3. You also stated that he did not trust her enough to give her the card and pin number. However he would have had to give it to her when he went to the hospital with a heart condition as he would have been laid up in bed. Knowing Thai hospitals, they would want the cash up front and for his condition it would have cost a fair bit of cash. Probably why she was getting cash on a daily basis as he probably had a daily limit on the withdrawal.

Also can't comment on the Will, know nothing of the UK laws.

I am sorry for your loss. I hope all works out for you in the future. He sounded like a great guy and he had a very understanding daughter.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

1) I agree

2) Yes

3) No chance

4) Contest, she might just give up if faced with a costly fight from another country.

So sorry to hear about your loss.

I hope at least you father enjoyed his last years.

You might also wish to report her to the Thai police (or his bank) for using your fathers account after his death. That isn't allowed.

+ 1

[Chivas]

Sorry to hear of your loss.....

There's a real mish mash of information given to you from Posters here some good some perhaps not so. I would add only one point-slow down !!

This I would imagine will become a complicated affair to untangle and unfortunately that calls for expensive Briefs. It might be an idea initially of searching out a group of Solicitors with their own contacts within Thailand to assist you......

Lastly sign nothing at this time until events become more clear. I will tell you what you want to hear (or perhaps not) but Wifey was without question ramming your father by removing monies to the Daily limit from the ATM....

99.9%......

[Livinginexile]

Dear "notouchmonkey", my condolences for the death of your Father.

[notmyself]

Sorry for your loss. Get the bank to cancel the cards asap.

[loong]

I believe that it is normal to name an executor when making a will. Quite probably the executor would be the solicitor that your Father used to make the will. The executor will be reponsible for selling the property and distributing the money after deducting expenses and fees.

From what you say, over a 3 month period, your Father made a will and then changed it twice, with more benefit going to the wife. The wife accompanied him when he visited the solicitor. You may have a case for challenging the will due to "Undue influence"

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/undue+influence

Talk to a solicitor, obviously not the one who drew up the will.

[TommoPhysicist]

1) I agree

2) Yes

3) No chance

4) Contest, she might just give up if faced with a costly fight from another country.

So sorry to hear about your loss.

I hope at least you father enjoyed his last years.

You might also wish to report her to the Thai police (or his bank) for using your fathers account after his death. That isn't allowed.

thank you for that and for your condolences. Interesting what you said about reporting her to the police. they were uk bank accounts and the mere mention of thailand to them and said bank says we cant chase that. I asked the FCO abour reporting her to the police whilst we were there, they said it would be not be advised whilst we are still in the country. I discussed the whole thing with the wife who told us that in thailand the police wouldnt do anything to her... i'm guessing she's right. She/ they lived in a very small village way down in the nakon area, most of her cousins are police. we weighed up the situation and decided it was too risky to make a fuss.

If it was a UK bank account, you can definitely report the money as stolen.

Nobody is allowed to access the account of a dead person in the uk.

Also as she was only left 40k from his UK assets, money taken illegally from his UK bank must, at worst, be offset against her 40k.

Edited July 31, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[GuestHouse]

You need to take legal advice in the UK.

The will can be contested, death of someone apparently healthy so soon after a change in the will would be grounds to raise a challenge.

The wife will not be able to evict the old lady in order to sell the house from under her.

Again take legal advice.

It is most likely that the wife will have to wait for the sale of the house after the death of the old lady to get the proceeds - The proceeds of course are dependent upon is sale vale.

The sale value can be greatly affected by the condition and decor of the house when it goes to market. I understand this year's fad colour is gloss purple walls with gloss purple ceilings. Perhaps the old lady will want you to redecorate for her at sometime.

[Sharp]

I'm not sure where to start here, but perhaps to give a little background. My father met a pattaya bar girl 8 years ago, she is much younger than himself (she was 32, he was 62) . Dad came home, she rang him a month later telling him 'my mums gotta have an operation i need money'. dad paid her some money then. he visited her again and they beacme a 'regular thing'. Eventually they moved to her local village down in the south and he built a house on her mums land, fitted it out, got air con, bought a car, etc etc. I visited 'the farm' as he affectionately called it ( i was more inclined to call it a swamp) 3 times over the last few years. As one of his grown up daughters i wrestled with his choices, as i am sure he did with mine over the years, but eventually came to terms with the whole thing. this was dads 3rd marriage, he certainly beleived in enjoying life, but he was wary of women generally and told me once he was sometimes wary of his wife and family, he said he only just trusted her 'so far' he said he would never give her his pin numbers.

to cut to the chase Dad married his wife last summer mainly so she could get the visa to come here for 3 months, it all went very well, we supported dad when other members of the family gave him and wife a difficult time. whilst here he visited a solicitor 3 times to make a will. the first two times, the basic premise was, wife gets everything in thailand, daughters get everything in uk. At the last appointment, his wife accompanied him and it was changed to 'wife gets everything in thailand + 40,000- daughters are the resudual beneficiaries' He didnt have 40k i might add, so this money would come from the sale of the uk property in which his elderly mother lives. Well dad goes back to thailand and within 10 days is dead. We dont really know why, except that he went to hospital with breathing problems. his UK GP, was surprised, having recently seen him and found him to be in good health. by the time my sister and me arrived in thailand, he was embalmed and sealed in a box in the garden. we then watched as the wife visited the cashpoint everyday for our 16 days visit and used his cashpoint cards to take the limit everyday. (she told us he gave her the pin so she could pay the hospital bill) So, what am i asking here?

1] i think his death is suspicious but i also know that bugger all we can do about it, but it would be interesting to get other views.

2] are me and my sister morally OR legally entitled to contest his uk will.

3] we dont want to sell the house to pay the wife cos we will have to evict our elderly gran, do you think wife will agree to wait for the money?

4] if we contest the will, do you think the wife will fight us legally?

Pm me I will give you the name of a good lawyer in Thailand I have used him many times and BELEIVE me do trust him.

Sorry for your loss...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[mrtoad]

Very suspect, and not unlike a number of other stories. The raiding of the ATM seems to be a common one. Sorry for your loss.

[evadgib]

The OP may find this useful...

Help if someone dies

Edited July 31, 2012 by evadgib

[KNJ]

Contact the banks and explain the death and have any and all accounts frozen immediately

Contact the solicitor, and explain you want to contest the will and then employ your own solicitor. His mum will be fine, no UK court would evict her

Make sure you get a copy of the death certificate and have it translated and endorsed.

[RogueExpat]

First off - my condolences to the OP for your loss. Tragic.

Secondly, without an autopsy to be sure, no-one will know the truth, however, it does sound like the deceased was poisoned with some sort of rat/animal poison. I have seen many farm animals go this way, and it starts with with hyperventilation, a racing heart, followed by cardiac arest. Usually within an hour after ingestion.

Terrible.

Edited July 31, 2012 by RogueExpat

[robblok]

Sounds like foul play often happens in these kind of relationships especially after the guy changed his will. Too bad that you can't do much about it on the Thai side just fight on the UK side and hope to scare them with costs and a foreign country.

[harrry]

He had been with her for 8 years. Even if he had not married her the UK would have considered her his partner. As his partner it is quite reasonable to will the estate to her and ignore the other family members who except for you you say gave little support. Your claim is rather problematic too. I despise people who denigrate the long time partner of members as you have done.