Culture Clash

[buadhai]

I used to sunbathe topless but then I developed love handles, man boobs, a spare tire and skin cancer so now I just hang out in the nearest covered bar.

YMMV

[Sheryl]

Agree with all the nay-sayers. Topless and nud_e sunbathing are offensive in Thai culture, and even if one is in tourist area heavily populated bu foreigners, you're still a guest in Thailand and should avoid offensive actions. Case closed.

The furthest anyone should go is a bathing suit on foriegner-populated beaches, covered over as soon as you leave the beach, and shorts + tee shirt at any beaches or waterfalls etc that are populated mostly by Thais, unless they are also in bathing suits (unlikely except at very upscale resorts frequented by urban Thais).

And, cultural concerns aside...the parade of naked tourists on Phuket beaches is esthetically appalling. Especially since there seems to be a direct inverse relationship between physical attractiveness and how much is worn....I cringe as I listen to Thais commenting on the " ugly fat cows" especially because it is true. Personally I go to the beach to enjoy the natural beauty and the above mentioned sights are really an eyesore and blot on an otherwise beautiful landscape!

[LadyinRed]

So, I was out on the beach last weekend with a friend chomping on Moo Yang and som tam, and I decided to go to the drink stall up on the beach to get some drinks.

I walked there and ordered my drinks, the beach boy asked me if I was Thai (this is normal for me as I am asian). He remarked that I looked so much like a Thai lady, but he was not sure because I was in a bikini.

A big barebreasted farang lady (in her 50s) then came to order some drinks, and I thought I caught what was a sudden stint of blush across his face. He had his shades on but he was looking down on his feet the moment she arrived. Yes, I think he was a bit uncomfortable.

Topless bathing in public is really not an Asian thing. I strongly discourage doing that on a public beach. A private balcony or a hotel poolside would be a better place to sunbathe topless. It is embarassing for local parents to explain to their kids why some people have no clothes on (wan ni ron mak mak!).

[er1c]

So, it would appear that the general consensus is that Sunbathing topless is a big no no in Thailand. I guess she'll have to just use the balcony or we'll have to find a secluded spot if she wants that desperately to avoid 'the white bits'!

So, I was out on the beach last weekend with a friend chomping on Moo Yang and som tam, and I decided to go to the drink stall up on the beach to get some drinks.

I walked there and ordered my drinks, the beach boy asked me if I was Thai (this is normal for me as I am asian). He remarked that I looked so much like a Thai lady, but he was not sure because I was in a bikini.

A big barebreasted farang lady (in her 50s) then came to order some drinks, and I thought I caught what was a sudden stint of blush across his face. He had his shades on but he was looking down on his feet the moment she arrived. Yes, I think he was a bit uncomfortable.

Topless bathing in public is really not an Asian thing. I strongly discourage doing that on a public beach. A private balcony or a hotel poolside would be a better place to sunbathe topless. It is embarassing for local parents to explain to their kids why some people have no clothes on (wan ni ron mak mak!).

So is topless sunbathing around the poolside far more acceptable ? I imagine it would be due to the farang clientelle and the hotel workers who are more used to it than the 'public'?

[phuketsiam]

I think i would be uncomfortable if a big barebreasted farang lady in her 50's approached me

[sriracha john]

Hi Ladies,

My girlfriend, Liz, and I are due to arrive in Koh Samui for a couple of weeks soon(we are staying on Lamai).

Liz is concerned about attitudes to topless sunbathing in Thailand and, in order to put her mind at rest, I thought I'd come on this forum to ask whether any of you have had any negative experiences relating to it (other than sunburn!). Is it accepted or would you advise against it ?

Many thanks.

E.

If you don't mind her ending up on a video, then go ahead. While trying to relax on a beach on Samui, I was offered disks of footage showing topless farangs on Samui beaches. I declined their offer.

Later, while at Lamai beach, I noticed 3 young Thai men clandestinely taping them with a camcorder. They could barely contain their laughter, but filmed topless and/or bikini-clad farang women incessantly. They were adept at not being detected by the subjects they were filming, however. Whether they were doing it for their own use or for the retail market, I don't know.

[thaibebop]

So, it would appear that the general consensus is that Sunbathing topless is a big no no in Thailand. I guess she'll have to just use the balcony or we'll have to find a secluded spot if she wants that desperately to avoid 'the white bits'!

So, I was out on the beach last weekend with a friend chomping on Moo Yang and som tam, and I decided to go to the drink stall up on the beach to get some drinks.

I walked there and ordered my drinks, the beach boy asked me if I was Thai (this is normal for me as I am asian). He remarked that I looked so much like a Thai lady, but he was not sure because I was in a bikini.

A big barebreasted farang lady (in her 50s) then came to order some drinks, and I thought I caught what was a sudden stint of blush across his face. He had his shades on but he was looking down on his feet the moment she arrived. Yes, I think he was a bit uncomfortable.

Topless bathing in public is really not an Asian thing. I strongly discourage doing that on a public beach. A private balcony or a hotel poolside would be a better place to sunbathe topless. It is embarassing for local parents to explain to their kids why some people have no clothes on (wan ni ron mak mak!).

So is topless sunbathing around the poolside far more acceptable ? I imagine it would be due to the farang clientelle and the hotel workers who are more used to it than the 'public'?

No, don't do it anywhere at anytime. If it's unacceptable back home it's unacceptable in LOS. A good rule to live by when and where ever you travel. If it's that important to have roasted breasts, may I suggest a tanning booth. I know you guys are going on vacation and it's about relaxing and all, but you are in another country representing yours. All that said, have fun!

Hi Ladies,

My girlfriend, Liz, and I are due to arrive in Koh Samui for a couple of weeks soon(we are staying on Lamai).

Liz is concerned about attitudes to topless sunbathing in Thailand and, in order to put her mind at rest, I thought I'd come on this forum to ask whether any of you have had any negative experiences relating to it (other than sunburn!). Is it accepted or would you advise against it ?

Many thanks.

E.

If you don't mind her ending up on a video, then go ahead. While trying to relax on a beach on Samui, I was offered disks of footage showing topless farangs on Samui beaches. I declined their offer.

Later, while at Lamai beach, I noticed 3 young Thai men clandestinely taping them with a camcorder. They could barely contain their laughter, but filmed topless and/or bikini-clad farang women incessantly. They were adept at not being detected by the subjects they were filming, however. Whether they were doing it for their own use or for the retail market, I don't know.

If a woman is willing to walk around a beach with out a top for all the beach goers to see she shouldn't get mad if someone is video taping or taking pictures, it's a little late for modesty. If the all the beach goers get to see it why not the world?

[the gent]

Reading this thread one could be forgiven for thinking that Thailand was not a mass market tourist destination and that the resorts were stylish places carefully developed with due regard to the social mores of a deeply conservative, religious society. Quite bizarre really when one takes into account the reality of Samui, Phuket and Pattaya.

Baring breasts is commonplace among Europeans and these resorts cater quite happily to increasing numbers from the lower end of that tourist market to such a degree that it would be difficult on occasions, for example, to distinguish Chaweng from, say, a typical beach on the Costa del Sol.

Quite why forum members have adopted such a prudish attitude is somewhat mystifying particularly when it is blindingly obvious that the Thai couldn't give a flying toss about anything very much unless money was involved.

But, since anecdotal comment is much prized, I have to say that on a recent beach trip to Pattaya accompanied by my wife and members of her family their interest in topless farang ladies and Russian gentlemen sporting buttock dental floss was one of fascination and not inconsiderable admiration. I gathered it was the size which held them in thrall although in my view the gentlemen's lunch boxes flattered to deceive.

[sriracha john]

Hi Ladies,

My girlfriend, Liz, and I are due to arrive in Koh Samui for a couple of weeks soon(we are staying on Lamai).

Liz is concerned about attitudes to topless sunbathing in Thailand and, in order to put her mind at rest, I thought I'd come on this forum to ask whether any of you have had any negative experiences relating to it (other than sunburn!). Is it accepted or would you advise against it ?

Many thanks.

E.

If you don't mind her ending up on a video, then go ahead. While trying to relax on a beach on Samui, I was offered disks of footage showing topless farangs on Samui beaches. I declined their offer.

Later, while at Lamai beach, I noticed 3 young Thai men clandestinely taping them with a camcorder. They could barely contain their laughter, but filmed topless and/or bikini-clad farang women incessantly. They were adept at not being detected by the subjects they were filming, however. Whether they were doing it for their own use or for the retail market, I don't know.

If a woman is willing to walk around a beach with out a top for all the beach goers to see she shouldn't get mad if someone is video taping or taking pictures, it's a little late for modesty. If the all the beach goers get to see it why not the world?

Which is why somewhere on their disk, the guys got a big, encouraging thumbs up recorded on their video... and a good laugh on their soundtrack...

[thaibebop]

Hi Ladies,

My girlfriend, Liz, and I are due to arrive in Koh Samui for a couple of weeks soon(we are staying on Lamai).

Liz is concerned about attitudes to topless sunbathing in Thailand and, in order to put her mind at rest, I thought I'd come on this forum to ask whether any of you have had any negative experiences relating to it (other than sunburn!). Is it accepted or would you advise against it ?

Many thanks.

E.

If you don't mind her ending up on a video, then go ahead. While trying to relax on a beach on Samui, I was offered disks of footage showing topless farangs on Samui beaches. I declined their offer.

Later, while at Lamai beach, I noticed 3 young Thai men clandestinely taping them with a camcorder. They could barely contain their laughter, but filmed topless and/or bikini-clad farang women incessantly. They were adept at not being detected by the subjects they were filming, however. Whether they were doing it for their own use or for the retail market, I don't know.

If a woman is willing to walk around a beach with out a top for all the beach goers to see she shouldn't get mad if someone is video taping or taking pictures, it's a little late for modesty. If the all the beach goers get to see it why not the world?

Which is why somewhere on their disk, the guys got a big, encouraging thumbs up recorded on their video... and a good laugh on their soundtrack...

So, than could these females of the bare chest be considered performing artists?

[khall64au]

Dunno about you guys in Pattaya but.......... I find (as an adult female) that the most beautiful women leave a little to the imagination

[LaoPo]

Dunno about you guys in Pattaya but.......... I find (as an adult female) that the most beautiful women leave a little to the imagination

Koh Samet: some 5 years ago.

A (attractive) Farang girl walks onto the beach; take off her clothes.....completely nud_e ....and sits down in a beach-chair. I was with my ladyfriend and we both just didn't believe our eyes or what to say...

Before we could say anything to her, she stands up again and walks to the sea and goes for a swim.

She comes back, still nud_e of course, and sits down again.

Now...the lady who is renting out the chairs approaches her and tells her to pay for the chair and 'dress-up'....the girl waves her away and said nothing. 'Chairlady' becomes very angry starts shouting and screaming but the girl completely ignored her

After 20 minutes she goes to the sea again and when she returned the 'Chair-lady had (obviously)removed her chair...

The girl dresses up again and leaves; leaving everybody still

UNBELIEVABLE in Thai culture.

LaoPo

[Fast Eddie]

Dunno about you guys in Pattaya but.......... I find (as an adult female) that the most beautiful women leave a little to the imagination

Yeah i almost see what you're saying.... but i dunno, i think there are occasions when imagination can be very over-rated....

But on a serious note, it's a matter of respect. If the locals don't like it, you should behave yourself. If some fifty odd year old woman, with her tits hanging out, came up to me all nonchalant and trying to buy a round of drinks, i'd have to set her straight on a few matters.

Edited January 21, 2006 by Fast Eddie

[donna]

the fact that many others do it does not make it right.

ok, obviously im not thai, but i know thai people well enough to know that they will not say anything to these people who insist on hanging their 'bits' out because they are so embarrased by it.

i was on a boat once in ko phang ngan. we pulled up at bottle beach where there were many topless farang girls in the water. i asked the young, good looking and funky boat driver what he thought of this. he told me it was ugly and he would never want his girlfriend behaving in such a way.

i dont let people into my restaurant if they are wearing just a bikini or speedos. my staff thank me for this, and my request to put on some clothes is not done in a rude manner.

i still say keep 'em tucked away!

[Boo]

I agree with modesty part when in public but when on the beach, topless is ok IMO. As another poster pointed out, thai people are all too happy to encourage european tourists & their money, which means they have to accept some of the european habits & in most mainland european beach resorts, topless sunbathing IS acceptable.

So if this girl wants to get an all over tan & she can handle a few stares, then I don't see what the probem is with sunbathing with her top off.

If the thais were that prudish, they would stop all the katoeys from flashing their private parts in chaweng as I have witnessed myself on numerous occasions or get rid of all the pole dancing in the girly bars In fact there wouldn't be any girlie bars would there?

[HarryHerb]

If the thais were that prudish, they would stop all the katoeys from flashing their private parts in chaweng as I have witnessed myself on numerous occasions or get rid of all the pole dancing in the girly bars In fact there wouldn't be any girlie bars would there?

Point taken, Thai society can (like most others) be hypocritical in many respects, but the difference is that most "decent" Thai people can and do avoid going to such areas, whereas in most southern Thai tourist resorts, local people, many from the Muslim villages neaby, have little choice but to work in the cafes, bars, hotels and restaurants on the beach - it's not like they can still go fishing for a living! Which makes what you say here:

thai people are all too happy to encourage european tourists & their money, which means they have to accept some of the european habits

slightly unfair, I think. Tradition and culture should not be for sale.

But then it's not like the Thais are protecting their own culture either. Under Thai law topless women can actually be arrested, can't they? Yet you're hardly likely to see that happening... meaning the 'european habits' - and money - have already been accepted, by those in power anyway

[sbk]

Point taken, Thai society can (like most others) be hypocritical in many respects, but the difference is that most "decent" Thai people can and do avoid going to such areas, whereas in most southern Thai tourist resorts, local people, many from the Muslim villages neaby, have little choice but to work in the cafes, bars, hotels and restaurants on the beach - it's not like they can still go fishing for a living!

Not really applicable to Koh Samui, don't you think? Last I knew the Muslim villages were nowhere near the major tourist areas in Samui.

[gisele]

Not really applicable to Koh Samui, don't you think? Last I knew the Muslim villages were nowhere near the major tourist areas in Samui.

A few weeks ago as we were driving from Chaweng to Phang Ka, I was surprised to see that there's hardly any un-built piece of land left between Chaweng and the Muslim village. Since we usually only go for a weekend and we don't often go to Lamai, it was a bit of a shock.

From Nathon to the Muslim village (and beyond) is pretty much all tourist areas.

I guess topless sun bathing is seen all over Samui, it wouldn't go over too well in my neck of the woods where I am the only woman in an actual bathing suit

but Samui is more "Farangland" than Thailand so the rules are not the same.

[sbk]

True, but I wouldn't really expect a topless woman to be wandering around on the main ring road. Or at least, I would hope not.

Regardless, on the main tourist areas of Samui topless sunbathing is not the major taboo it would be in a less populated area or another island.

I still wouldn't recommend topless bathing but I think comparing Chaweng beach to a less developed island is a little disingenuous.

[gisele]

True, but I wouldn't really expect a topless woman to be wandering around on the main ring road. Or at least, I would hope not.

Regardless, on the main tourist areas of Samui topless sunbathing is not the major taboo it would be in a less populated area or another island.

I still wouldn't recommend topless bathing but I think comparing Chaweng beach to a less developed island is a little disingenuous.

For sure, I would venture to guess that if any one is topless sunbathing it would probably be in Chaweng and Lamai, less so in Bophut or Maenam.

How about Koh Phangan? and Koh Tao?

[sriracha john]

So if this girl wants to get an all over tan & she can handle a few stares,

and a few thousand videos distributed internationally...

then I don't see what the probem is with sunbathing with her top off.

[Misplaced]

If people of Thailand cannot accept a nud_e farang lady than I think I must due my duty and help eliviate this issue. I will offer any beatiful farang lady a place to nud_e sunbath at my home for free. The only thing I ask is to let me know in advanced so I can beg my wife & her parents to go shopping in bangkok for a few days

[gburns57au]

My first visit in this area.....

Is a woman sitting under a group of beach umbrellas without a top on...sunbathing or flashing ??? I have seen this on Pattaya beach so many times. My thought is if she were sunbathing then she would be out in the sun not sitting in the shade.....Yet some of them rarely venture from under the brollies....

I have actually seen on the odd occasion a Thai girl (under the brollies again) sitting there topless...

The reference to Girlie bars and pole dancers....These girls are doing a job...they are behind closed doors...it is not the same as sitting on a beach flashing it for all and sundry

[the gent]

Is it an Australian thing, this prurient attitude to what most Europeans consider as rather mundane?

Your remoteness is one thing but in this age of cheap travel, broad migration and access to unrestricted media surely even the most stereotypical antipodean from Loonsville,Queensland must now realise that nudity on the beach is accepted as conventional behaviour and not the stuff of puerile fantasy. Reading some of these post I am beginning to realise just how much Victorianism still pervades the thinking of our commonwealth cousins and members of former subject nations.

Topless sunbathing equates to flashing? How quaint.

[gburns57au]

Is it an Australian thing, this prurient attitude to what most Europeans consider as rather mundane?

Your remoteness is one thing but in this age of cheap travel, broad migration and access to unrestricted media surely even the most stereotypical antipodean from Loonsville,Queensland must now realise that nudity on the beach is accepted as conventional behaviour and not the stuff of puerile fantasy. Reading some of these post I am beginning to realise just how much Victorianism still pervades the thinking of our commonwealth cousins and members of former subject nations.

Topless sunbathing equates to flashing? How quaint.

not worthy of a reply

[the gent]

Up to you but honestly, I was actually interested in your response. Scoring cheap xenophobic jokes is not my style if that was likely to be a worry.

[khall64au]

Is it an Australian thing, this prurient attitude to what most Europeans consider as rather mundane?

Your remoteness is one thing but in this age of cheap travel, broad migration and access to unrestricted media surely even the most stereotypical antipodean from Loonsville,Queensland must now realise that nudity on the beach is accepted as conventional behaviour and not the stuff of puerile fantasy. Reading some of these post I am beginning to realise just how much Victorianism still pervades the thinking of our commonwealth cousins and members of former subject nations.

Topless sunbathing equates to flashing? How quaint.

not worthy of a reply

I'll reply.... this is NOT Australia. This is THAILAND. Topless sunbathing is accepted all over Australia. In Thailand, it is not the cultural norm and locals DO NOT like it but, in heavily touristed areas, have grown to tolerate nudity - as it comes with the new economy. How "quaint" to have to turn a blind -eye to the annual invasion of your cultural dignity in order to put food on the table.

[alaina]

I've got to agree with the majority here, and I'm pretty sure the OP gets the message by now.

Sunbathing topless isn't acceptable in many places, nevermind how that fits into Thai culture, it just isn't okay here.

Difference is that in Coney Island NYC, you'd probably get harassed and people who wanted you to cover up would say so. Oh, they would have lots to say. Thais aren't into confrontation and would likely just not mention it or mention it to other people. I've very rarely seen a Thai confront typical tourist faux pas in a direct manner to the actual offender. And there are lots of tourist faux pas.

I had this arguement with a guy who stayed at my condo and refused to wear a shirt to go down to the pool area. He went down to the pool and came back up, when I bumped into him getting off of the elevator shirtless in swim trunks, dripping wet. Also on the elevator was my elderly hi-so neighbor looking everywhere but at us and absolutely mortified.

That week I got a letter from the condo manager about it and she was also mortified and felt awful for writing the letter thinking that I hated her. It took a long conversation (mostly, "he's a stupid tourist, sorry") and a gift to sort that one.

All over a shirt, I know. But really, just wear appropriate attire, that's all.

[the gent]

Is it an Australian thing, this prurient attitude to what most Europeans consider as rather mundane?

Your remoteness is one thing but in this age of cheap travel, broad migration and access to unrestricted media surely even the most stereotypical antipodean from Loonsville,Queensland must now realise that nudity on the beach is accepted as conventional behaviour and not the stuff of puerile fantasy. Reading some of these post I am beginning to realise just how much Victorianism still pervades the thinking of our commonwealth cousins and members of former subject nations.

Topless sunbathing equates to flashing? How quaint.

not worthy of a reply

I'll reply.... this is NOT Australia. This is THAILAND. Topless sunbathing is accepted all over Australia. In Thailand, it is not the cultural norm and locals DO NOT like it but, in heavily touristed areas, have grown to tolerate nudity - as it comes with the new economy. How "quaint" to have to turn a blind -eye to the annual invasion of your cultural dignity in order to put food on the table.

You seem to have missed the point of my post which was more of a comment upon the prurience of Mr.Burns, rather than the issue under debate in the thread but never mind.

Next time I am on the beach I shall look out for those unfortunate Thai nursing their bruised cultural sensitivities as they force themselves to collect the dosh from the heathen falang so crass as to have a good time in their own way.Somehow I have missed this crise de conscience.Perhaps my view has been obscured by the Thai, tattooed, topless lovelies gambolling with their falang paramours amidst the endless procession of Thai itinerants peddling their DVD porn, cheap whisky and bogus watches.And perhaps those Thai lads weren't really drugged/pissed out of their minds but were actually communing with their godhead in some karmic embrace.

Cultural dignity in Samui,Phuket and Pattaya? I don't think so.

To the OP, there is absolutely nothing wrong with topless bathing in the tourist areas, loads do it and the locals don't give it a second thought. Even in Ko Samet, a designated national park, topless bathing is tolerated without fuss.Most contrary posts are just so much cultural posturing..... I think it makes them feel more in tune with the REAL Thailand, whatever that is.

[khall64au]

Is it an Australian thing, this prurient attitude to what most Europeans consider as rather mundane?

Your remoteness is one thing but in this age of cheap travel, broad migration and access to unrestricted media surely even the most stereotypical antipodean from Loonsville,Queensland must now realise that nudity on the beach is accepted as conventional behaviour and not the stuff of puerile fantasy. Reading some of these post I am beginning to realise just how much Victorianism still pervades the thinking of our commonwealth cousins and members of former subject nations.

Topless sunbathing equates to flashing? How quaint.

not worthy of a reply

I'll reply.... this is NOT Australia. This is THAILAND. Topless sunbathing is accepted all over Australia. In Thailand, it is not the cultural norm and locals DO NOT like it but, in heavily touristed areas, have grown to tolerate nudity - as it comes with the new economy. How "quaint" to have to turn a blind -eye to the annual invasion of your cultural dignity in order to put food on the table.

You seem to have missed the point of my post which was more of a comment upon the prurience of Mr.Burns, rather than the issue under debate in the thread but never mind.

Next time I am on the beach I shall look out for those unfortunate Thai nursing their bruised cultural sensitivities as they force themselves to collect the dosh from the heathen falang so crass as to have a good time in their own way.Somehow I have missed this crise de conscience.Perhaps my view has been obscured by the Thai, tattooed, topless lovelies gambolling with their falang paramours amidst the endless procession of Thai itinerants peddling their DVD porn, cheap whisky and bogus watches.And perhaps those Thai lads weren't really drugged/pissed out of their minds but were actually communing with their godhead in some karmic embrace.

Cultural dignity in Samui,Phuket and Pattaya? I don't think so.

To the OP, there is absolutely nothing wrong with topless bathing in the tourist areas, loads do it and the locals don't give it a second thought. Even in Ko Samet, a designated national park, topless bathing is tolerated without fuss.Most contrary posts are just so much cultural posturing..... I think it makes them feel more in tune with the REAL Thailand, whatever that is.

Well... your post was directed at Aussies of which I am one - so I answered you!

The "real Thailand" is 90% of the population who aren't involved in the tourist industry. You can usually spot them in the late afternoon playing with their kids on Phuket beaches - away from the topless crowd. Believe me, I walk the beach at this time several evenings a week and I see it all....