It's amazing how often Thais get labelled as hypocritical in any matter concerning sex. But it's pretty simple, really - doing naughty things is OK in private, but not in public. This ensures no one loses face and everyone avoids conflict, which is very important in Thai culture. So prostitution is not a big deal when it's behind closed doors in a motel or nightclub, but it's uncomfortably obvious when half naked girls sit outside go-go bars with the doors open revealing the bikinied dancers within.

With nudity, I think there's an additional angle. From a Buddhist perspective, all the pleasures of the senses are to be avoided if one is to become enlightened, and sex is the most obvious one. This is why serious Buddhists who take the 8 precepts or become monks (227 precepts) must be celibate and avoid all kinds of entertainment. It's not that sex and entertainment are sinful, but rather that they are hindrances to spiritual attainment.

I saw a bargirl waiing to a shrine as she entered her place of work which I found rather odd but nice also. I had a chat with her later and she explained that it is bad luck if not do. But it's perfectly okay to dance around a pole wearing next to nothing and go home with tourists every night in Bhuddas eyes, an apparently it is because they are just doing a job, and sex, a subject we inevitably discussed, is as natural to them as going to the toilet or eating.

Well I don´t do much topless myself but when I have done it ( in Spain) is not because I want to have brown boobs but rather to get the beneficial vitamins from the sun onto my skin.

BTW for people who like to use complicate english...

I am spanish and even though i can write and speak english, I cannot sometimes understand posh or complicated english. You should be aware that there is people here who english is not their first language so please give us a chance....or maybe I should start using my posh spanish with you...

I saw a bargirl waiing to a shrine as she entered her place of work which I found rather odd but nice also. I had a chat with her later and she explained that it is bad luck if not do.

Right, but this may well have the building's spirit house and nothing to do with Buddhism. Thais will wai to any powerful person, spirit or object, as a mark of respect.

But it's perfectly okay to dance around a pole wearing next to nothing and go home with tourists every night in Bhuddas eyes, an apparently it is because they are just doing a job, and sex, a subject we inevitably discussed, is as natural to them as going to the toilet or eating.

Nice justification but the Buddha never said prostitution or naked dancing was OK. However, I doubt many BGs really understand the core teachings of Buddhism. Doing a job which encourages others to break the 5 Precepts and other teachings is not regarded as Right Livelihood, an important part of the Noble Eightfold Path. In fact, I think this is one reason why many Thais tend to look down on prostitutes.

However, I doubt many BGs really understand the core teachings of Buddhism.

Oh for sure, but I suppose it makes them feel better about what they are doing, maybe it's their one saving grace.

Perhaps a little patronising, but there are issues.

A rather splendid spirit house greets the entrant to Country Road 2, Soi 19 Suk'wit, and I have never seen any employee fail to wai upon ingress.

Whatever goes through the mind can only be conjecture, but I liken it, ultimately, as being comparative to not walking under a ladder, chucking salt over one's shoulder, not putting shoes on a table, etc., etc.Not exactly a saving grace but in the great here and now most folk need whatever hope might come their way.

Although, I do like like the idea of an eightfold path, if only for the reason that certitude breeds confidence!

It's okay for a guy to sunbathe topless but not a woman - that's nuts.

If I sunbathe naked in my garden and the neighbour sees me over the fence, she can call the cops on me for xposure, but if I am looking out of my bathroom window and I spot her sunbathing naked in her garden than I am a peeping tom!

Crazy!

Edited January 26, 200620 yr by Wes Turner

BTW for people who like to use complicate english...

I am spanish and even though i can write and speak english, I cannot sometimes understand posh or complicated english. You should be aware that there is people here who english is not their first language so please give us a chance....or maybe I should start using my posh spanish with you...

Support you here 'Glauka'; English is not my Mother tongue too....but at least we try don't we? I am happy to be a European and have been able to study quite a few languages.

That cannot be said by the majority of born-speaking English people all-over-the-world but that's not their fault, since it is a world-language and their governments didn't 'see' the necessity for having their citizens study ('obligatory') a second or third language.

And, that's a pity!

It gives us a lead though

But, this is an English Forum so we we have to follow the rules but I'm learning new words/slang every day; at least I'm trying, like yourself.

Hasta pronto guapa! ( not meaning anything here...just a Spanish Guitar )

LaoPo

All this talk about topless/nud_e sunbathing being the norm in Europe....please remember that not all tourists are from Europe. Many tourists come from countries where topless is NOT acceptable, and they are also put off by what they see.

Not to criticize those countries where this is the norm...that's there culture. But when they come to other cultures they should adapt accordingly.

Plenty of European tourists on American beaches & they keep their tops on...because, as one other poster mentioned, in the US they WILL tell you that it is not acceptable (or call the cops and let them tell you). The Thais are less confrontational and communicate in more subtle ways which apparently fall on deaf ears.

it is true that standards are changing, normal female attire in Bangkok these days would have been considered "bo" when Ifirst came here in 1980. Upper class urban Thais are starting to wear bathing suits (altho usually not bikinis) when at upscale resorts. But the average Thai still doesn't, and definitely topless and nud_e is a no-no. Given the Thai aversion to the sun, little reason for it.

Not to criticize those countries where this is the norm...that's there culture. But when they come to other cultures they should adapt accordingly.

Given the Thai aversion to the sun, little reason for it.

1. fully agree on that

2. It's not just the (Thai) aversion to the sun...it's merely that they, especially the women, don't want their skin to become darker.... exposing it to the sun.

Thai woman-to-Farang woman: Me no like my skin...too dak......me, I like you velly big...you white skin...me like hep same-same

LaoPo

Saw plenty Western ladies in Patters topless on the beach. I'd have to agree I brought my gf to the beach and she wears more clothes than she would wear out on the town. (mummy comes to mind)

To The Gent

Next time, in promulgating your esoteric cogitations, or articulating your superficial sentimentalities and amicable, philosophical or psychological observations, beware of platitudinous ponderosity. Let your conversational communications possess a clarified conciseness, a compacted comprehensibleness, coalescent consistency, and a concatenated cogency.

Eschew all conglomerations of flatulent garrulity, jejune babblement, and asinine affectations.

Let your extemporaneous descantings and unpremeditated expatiations have intelligibility and veracious vivacity, without rodomontade or thrasonical bombast. Sedulously avoid all polysyllabic profundity, pompous prolixity, psittaceous vacuity ventriloquial verbosity, and vaniloquent vapidity. Shun double-entendres, prurient jocosity, and pestiferous profanity, obscurant or apparent!!

** ** In other words, talk plainly, briefly, naturally, sensibly, truthfully, purely. Keep from slang; don't put on airs; say what you mean; mean what you say. And, don't use big words

All the years in school and I couldn't understand a word you wrote . Thanks for reminding me that schooling was not worth 100,000

BTW for people who like to use complicate english...

I am spanish and even though i can write and speak english, I cannot sometimes understand posh or complicated english. You should be aware that there is people here who english is not their first language so please give us a chance....or maybe I should start using my posh spanish with you...

Excellent post Glauka.

Gent likes to impress us by using words that are not in common usage.

It's his way of craving attention, a bit like Scampy.

In the countries where it is legal to go topless the laws came after much deliberations and alot of opposition. There are nice beaches in some Middle eastern countries, what about going topless there.

A few years ago, I was living in Ontario, Canada, a law was passed making it legal to go topless (assuming beaches of course) it was a big deal. Men went around topless saying if the women could then they could too. some women webt topless in the city.

So that summer we saw more skin on the beaches of lake Huron and Erie (The great lakes) and every where else, many places inappropriate.

I wasn't so carefree about the whole thing since I was afraid I would meet some of my students or worse, their parents.

Edited January 27, 200620 yr by gisele

Too many farang tourists just don't care about other cultures and their customs. All they care about is doing what they want. After all, any negative fallout won't affect them when they are back home in two weeks time. Unfortunately, it has an indirect effect on all of us who have made Thailand our home and want to be well thought of and well treated by Thais.

Hit the nail square on the head here, camerata.

BTW for people who like to use complicate english...

I am spanish and even though i can write and speak english, I cannot sometimes understand posh or complicated english. You should be aware that there is people here who english is not their first language so please give us a chance....or maybe I should start using my posh spanish with you...

Excellent post Glauka.

Gent likes to impress us by using words that are not in common usage.

It's his way of craving attention, a bit like Scampy.

I thinks this is probably off topic but since you have made the comments, as a moderator, perhaps I could be permitted a reply.

I think what you were trying to say is that my posting style was my way of seeking attention. By definition, any post in a public forum is attention seeking and what is wrong with that? Craving attention is another matter entirely and probably best characterised by excessive posting. Using the latter yardstick, I rather think my somewhat modest tally pales into insignificance when compared to, say, someone like yourself for instance or the other usual suspects.

As regards my style, well, I can live with the criticism but please do not labour under the illusion that I hold you in such high regard that I would wish to impress you or any other poster for that matter. I use the english language as I think fit but I do acknowledge my style may present difficulties to the less literate, the stupid and the addled headed. But then, there is always the dictionary?

Finally, being mentioned in the same breath as the legendary Scampi I take as a compliment

BTW for people who like to use complicate english...

I am spanish and even though i can write and speak english, I cannot sometimes understand posh or complicated english. You should be aware that there is people here who english is not their first language so please give us a chance....or maybe I should start using my posh spanish with you...

Excellent post Glauka.

Gent likes to impress us by using words that are not in common usage.

It's his way of craving attention, a bit like Scampy.

I thinks this is probably off topic but since you have made the comments, as a moderator, perhaps I could be permitted a reply.

I think what you were trying to say is that my posting style was my way of seeking attention. By definition, any post in a public forum is attention seeking and what is wrong with that? Craving attention is another matter entirely and probably best characterised by excessive posting. Using the latter yardstick, I rather think my somewhat modest tally pales into insignificance when compared to, say, someone like yourself for instance or the other usual suspects.

As regards my style, well, I can live with the criticism but please do not labour under the illusion that I hold you in such high regard that I would wish to impress you or any other poster for that matter. I use the english language as I think fit but I do acknowledge my style may present difficulties to the less literate, the stupid and the addled headed. But then, there is always the dictionary?

Finally, being mentioned in the same breath as the legendary Scampi I take as a compliment

HHHHHhhhhhhmmmmm.....?????

Not hiding in there are you Scamp......

redrus

<snipped for brevity>

Flaming other members is one thing Gent, but once you start on moderators you may find your tenure on ThaiVisa short lived.

Please get back on topic folks.

I use the english language as I think fit but I do acknowledge my style may present difficulties to the less literate, the stupid and the addled headed.

brilliant English-English and I am not even born-English-tongue; I vision a British (or should I say English?) stiff-upperlip classy gentleman* (nothing wrong with that)....Now, can I assume you are one or abandon my, let's say twisted, vision?

Also, would you please be so kind to explain the words "addled headed" to me, since I am not familiar with this esteemed, so I presume, expression; in fact I might be in that category myself and I humble ask you for forgiveness if that would be a fact.

Maybe you are able, if you have some time to spare, to teach me how to avoid being "addled headed"?

* John Cleese

LaoPo

Please get back on topic folks.

Excuses Jai Dee; I didn't see this as I was working on my previous post.

LaoPo

Excuses Jai Dee; I didn't see this as I was working on my previous post.

LaoPo

Excursion excused.

Now can we all get back on topic please?

<snipped for brevity>

Flaming other members is one thing Gent, but once you start on moderators you may find your tenure on ThaiVisa short lived.

Please get back on topic folks.

I didn't think he was starting on Udon, just brutally honest and fair. I personally love the way he utilizes the English language so please let's not be offended by it.

Anyway, topless sunbathing... At the end of the day respect for culture should be held in a much higher regard than a disdain for white tits - can I say that? Sorry I've had a few Spy's.

In the countries where it is legal to go topless the laws came after much deliberations and alot of opposition. Yes, fight the power! ###### the man! We have the God given right to bare all to the world! Don't let the bastards clothe you! Some Middle eastern countries, what about going topless there. If going bare is worth your life, go ahead. You're funny!

A few years ago, I was living in Ontario, Canada, a law was passed making it legal to go topless (assuming beaches of course) it was a big deal. Men went around topless saying if the women could then they could too. some women webt topless in the city.

So that summer we saw more skin on the beaches of lake Huron and Erie (The great lakes) and every where else, many places inappropriate.

I wasn't so carefree about the whole thing since I was afraid I would meet some of my students or worse, their parents.

BTW for people who like to use complicate english...

I am spanish and even though i can write and speak english, I cannot sometimes understand posh or complicated english. You should be aware that there is people here who english is not their first language so please give us a chance....or maybe I should start using my posh spanish with you...

Excellent post Glauka.

Gent likes to impress us by using words that are not in common usage.

It's his way of craving attention, a bit like Scampy.

I thinks this is probably off topic but since you have made the comments, as a moderator, perhaps I could be permitted a reply.

I think what you were trying to say is that my posting style was my way of seeking attention. By definition, any post in a public forum is attention seeking and what is wrong with that? Craving attention is another matter entirely and probably best characterised by excessive posting. Using the latter yardstick, I rather think my somewhat modest tally pales into insignificance when compared to, say, someone like yourself for instance or the other usual suspects.

As regards my style, well, I can live with the criticism but please do not labour under the illusion that I hold you in such high regard that I would wish to impress you or any other poster for that matter. I use the english language as I think fit but I do acknowledge my style may present difficulties to the less literate, the stupid and the addled headed. But then, there is always the dictionary?

Finally, being mentioned in the same breath as the legendary Scampi I take as a compliment

:D

Jai dee, no problem. Give him enough rope.....

I have to refer the reader back to Old Croc's post.

OK, so back to the topic.

Yesterday afternoon, I was having a massage on Chaweng beach, (oddly enough a girlfriend and I had just been discussing this thread) when low and behold, a topless extremely white woman wearing a pale blue barely there thong walked by, escorted by (I assume) her boyfriend and a persistant beach vender.

So we asked the women giving us the massage what they thought of topless women on the beach, they were about 7 women in their 20s, 30s and 40s. In unison, they answered "mai dee" but they laughed as Thais do, an attitude of tolerance, "chuai mai dai" even though it clearly bottered them.

Today on Lamai beach I saw what (I think) was a Thai girl, very dark skinned and quite young, maybe fifteen, topless on the beach and behaving rather strangely. It didn't look right but I didn't stop to say anything. Reading this thread again has just made me remember that.

Where is the gent by the way, I hope he wasn't banned.

Today on Lamai beach I saw what (I think) was a Thai girl, very dark skinned and quite young, maybe fifteen, topless on the beach and behaving rather strangely. It didn't look right but I didn't stop to say anything. Reading this thread again has just made me remember that.

Where is the gent by the way, I hope he wasn't banned.

Maybe doped

LaoPo

Today on Lamai beach I saw what (I think) was a Thai girl, very dark skinned and quite young, maybe fifteen, topless on the beach and behaving rather strangely. It didn't look right but I didn't stop to say anything. Reading this thread again has just made me remember that.

Where is the gent by the way, I hope he wasn't banned.

Maybe doped

LaoPo

She was crouching down and throwing handfuls of wet sand into the sea.

Edited January 29, 200620 yr by Uma~~

Today on Lamai beach I saw what (I think) was a Thai girl, very dark skinned and quite young, maybe fifteen, topless on the beach and behaving rather strangely. It didn't look right but I didn't stop to say anything. Reading this thread again has just made me remember that.

Where is the gent by the way, I hope he wasn't banned.

Maybe doped

LaoPo

She was crouching down and throwing handfuls of wet sand into the sea.

Maybe she felt there was too much sand on the beach?

LaoPo

Maybe she felt there was too much sand on the beach?

LaoPo

Don't be silly now LauPo.

One day WITHOUT laughter..is a wasted day..... no offence meant, of course!

ps: just pm'ed you in another case.

LaoPo

ps: just pm'ed you in another case.

LaoPo

Don't you mean bag?