Celta : International House Or Ecc?

[Trembly]

Hello all,

I've decided to get myself a CELTA sometime this year, probably in Chiang Mai.

I have some soft plans to pay their offices a visit and see what my gut thinks when I have the opportunity. Are there any particular 'key indicator' that I should look out for in the schools / trainers? Anything that should set my alarm bells ringing?

I would be grateful if anyone could supply a critical review or even just a report of their experiences and opinions of CELTA training at either of the above providers to help me make my decision.

This is not meant to be a TEFL vs. CELTA thread; I've done hours and hours of reading on this and I take the points made by those far more experienced than I who have a TEFL but Vietnam, where the name "Cambridge" makes people cream themselves, also happens to be a distinct possibility for my good self.

Thanks in advance!

Edited August 7, 2012 by Trembly

[AyG]

International House - globally recognised top-notch TEFL trainer. The London HQ does care about the reputation of the brand and keeps standards high.

ECC - Thai company with a reputation for producing vast numbers of fairly dodgy TEFL teachers.

For me, of the two, IH is a no-brainer.

[tolstoy]

ECC BKK is a good atmosphere, CM looks like a basement with some color.

IH, I heard rumors a few months ago that the CM site outside of town was moving closer to town but not sure if they did or not.

I looked at the pre test from both centers. I found IH to be much more professionally designed. The questions were written with a clear focus and not as hodge podged.

However, bottom line is both will give you the certificate. Neither will make you a teacher. At best they will make the transition to becoming a teacher slightly easier.

A 4 week course is barely going to touch the surface on most things.

I would go to both centers and mee the actual trainer. The one that you like the most is the one you should study with.

[Scott]

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[Trembly]

Thanks for the helpful answers chaps.

I've been teaching in schools and the Thai armed forces without a certificate or prior training for about a year now and I've found that I've taken to it quite naturally. I like it well enough (and I dare to think that my students like it well enough) that I've decided to make a career in education and I've reached the point where I'm keenly aware of corners that need squaring, so to speak, so I've decided to get some professional training to make it all a bit more coherent in my head.

I might even do a masters in Education or go back to England for a year to do a PGCE at some point in the future. At the moment I'm even entertaining thoughts of founding a 'proper' international school in Khon Kaen, break the price-fixing cartel of the premier league international schools and use the profits to fund a chain of Thai schools (effectively a parallel this-is-how-its-done education system) with an uncommonly large scholarship fund with 'proper' teaching by teachers either sent to be trained abroad (with a return of service clause) or trained in a teaching college with First World standards that I will set up before achieving world domination! . . . And breathe. Oh well, one can dream.

[wjthornton]

I find myself in similar circumstances with Trembly--even to the dream of seeing education as a way to give something back rather than a way to fleece the ignorant and unsuspecting. Oh, and trying to remember to breathe as well.

I kinda decided to go with CELTA given it seems to be the high-priced spread. ECC classes seem more conveniently scheduled than IH, but if I'm going to spend a month in a room with somebody, I guess the most important thing is that they demonstrate how to create a learning environment and provide good feedback to help me improve my own teaching ability.

Does Trembly or anybody else have further experiences with specific teachers at either ECC or IH, or does that get too personal for the forum rules?

[Scott]

Probably it would get into some troublesome areas. The problem with discussions like this is that seldom has anyone attended two courses and is therefore able to make a comparison.

[peanut]

I did mine at ECC and it was brilliant - great tutors, lovely students and a nice group. I don't know where the poster above got the "reputation for producing vast numbers of fairly dodgy TEFL teachers" idea. Perhaps he could explain? Also I don't know about the "top notch" indisputable reputation of IH Bangkok. In fact, one of our CELTA trainers came from IH London especially to do the course at ECC.

[followedbynumbers]

I just finished doing the CELTA at ECC in Phuket. I have to say I and the other students there really loved the course. Our main tutor was Robin and he was really a great instructor, (I believe he also used to work for IH) he has a real depth of knowledge, and while the course kept you busy and was quite rigorous, they don't totally overwhelm you like I've heard some CELTA centres will do. Some nice things: there's no teaching practicum on Fridays so it gives you a bit of breathing room, the classes don't start till 10:30am usually so if you've been up partying studying the night before it gives you a bit of time in the mornings to get your bearings. The center itself is centrally located so there are many nice restaurants and hotels near the centre, although since it's in Phuket Town, it's about 20 minute cab ride if you want to go to Patong - However spending a whole lot of time in Patong is probably not a great idea whilst doing the CELTA course I've worked for years in a university so I know a thing or two about teaching and I'd say that the quality of instruction that I got at ECC was very high, and you could tell that the lessons were being presented in a way that was designed to be engaging and interesting. The only quibble I'd have is that some of the computers they have availalbe for students to use are pretty slow but still they get the job done. Bottom line is I feel like i'm much better prepared to be a teacher after taking this course and that I got real value for my money.

[ChrisB87]

So just to clarify: Are ECC and International House the only CELTA providers in Thailand?

Both charge 1600 USD right? (except ECC will give an early bird discount down to 1440 USD)

[Neeranam]

This is not meant to be a TEFL vs. CELTA thread

I think you mean TESOL v CELTA.

I did a CELTA at ECC Siam Square about 18 years ago when they first started doing it. The guys training were very good - Percy and Steve, i think.

I also did a TESOL(London Trinity College), not at International House but another school.

Job-wise, I think the TESOL is better but the CELTA was very professional at ECC. However, ECC have on average a lower quality of teacher than IH but sometimes they have quality trainers.

[Dave5]

I've had experience with ECC, IH and Cambridge so I thought I'd comment.

First of all, the CELTA course is run by Cambridge ESOL, not ECC or International House; these two schools simply provide the premises. the instructors will be Cmabridge employed and I expect will probably teach the course at both venues. So in terms of the teaching and quality/recognition of the certification it makes no difference which one you go with.

It is true that, as a school, IH is certainly considered better than ECC, although, having worked for them, I don't think ECC is as bad as some people say; they just occupy a more "affordable" slot of the market.

Now on to my own personal experience: I applied to do the CELTA at IH a couple of years ago, choosing it over ECC because I assumed it would have better facilities. I had an absolute nightmare with the admin/paying side of things. I won't go into details and naming names but frankly I had expected more professionalism and honesty from a company such as IH. If anyone wants the full story, pm me.

I ended up doing the CELTA in Phuket with ECC and it was excellent. The instructors were Robin, John and Cathy. In true ECC style, I have to admit, the building was a little dingy with slightly peeling paintwork but the teaching was top rate and Phuket is actually a really nice town to spend a month in. Can't tell you anything about the BKK or Chiang mai venues I'm afraid.

So there you have it. Basically go with either but don't expect the mighty IH brand to necessarily give you better service. they seriously went down in my opinion.

BTW followedbynumbers, maybe you were on the same course as me? Care to hint at your real name?

[Mencken]

If you are comfortable with the environment, can control a class and toss together a kesson plan, I wouldn't bother with any of it. You will be paid the same or without that ridiculous piece of paper. Fifty thousand baht plus living expenses over the class period, visas, etc...100k?? So that is 10k per month on a crap ten month contract. 30k a month, that is only 20k for living expenses and nothing saved your entire first year.

Just wing it, even the "best" agencies are a farce, its not about doing a quality job, its about warm bodies. Be a warm body.

I think the English twaddle at IH must be insufferable as well. Does not the A in CELTA stand for teaching adults?

Teaching English, what a racket

Edited January 31, 2015 by Mencken

[bangmai]

It does seem like a pay-to-work type of arrangement. There seems to be a lot more money in training teachers, than actually teaching.

[Dave5]

If you are comfortable with the environment, can control a class and toss together a kesson plan, I wouldn't bother with any of it. You will be paid the same or without that ridiculous piece of paper. Fifty thousand baht plus living expenses over the class period, visas, etc...100k?? So that is 10k per month on a crap ten month contract. 30k a month, that is only 20k for living expenses and nothing saved your entire first year.

Just wing it, even the "best" agencies are a farce, its not about doing a quality job, its about warm bodies. Be a warm body.

That's certainly true enough if you're just going to do a gap year style thing and go back home at the end; in such a case the financial return probably isn't worth it. If you're planning to do it mid-to long term I would definitely get a CELTA. It's recognised around the world and pretty much essential for getting any kind of halfway respectable job.

[zeichen]

You all do realize that this is a 3 year old post and the OP has probably already taken a course.

Why would someone dig something up from the grave?

[Mencken]

It does seem like a pay-to-work type of arrangement. There seems to be a lot more money in training teachers, than actually teaching.

Truer words never spoken

[SheungWan]

If you are comfortable with the environment, can control a class and toss together a kesson plan, I wouldn't bother with any of it. You will be paid the same or without that ridiculous piece of paper. Fifty thousand baht plus living expenses over the class period, visas, etc...100k?? So that is 10k per month on a crap ten month contract. 30k a month, that is only 20k for living expenses and nothing saved your entire first year.

Just wing it, even the "best" agencies are a farce, its not about doing a quality job, its about warm bodies. Be a warm body.

That's certainly true enough if you're just going to do a gap year style thing and go back home at the end; in such a case the financial return probably isn't worth it. If you're planning to do it mid-to long term I would definitely get a CELTA. It's recognised around the world and pretty much essential for getting any kind of halfway respectable job.

Doing the course even just as part of a shortish two year trip away will provide an additional foundation stone for a CV. Winging one's way through life can get to be a habit and many of those that do end up washed up in Thailand providing us with their short-cut remedies for this and that.