Thai Co's Assisting With 30 Year+ Property Leases

[Khun Bob]

I'm looking at buying a propert in Thailand now and would like to go the way of a 30 year + option lease from a Thai citizen. I have done google searches for companies that provide assistance with this and the whole process of property and land purchase. Ideally I'm looking for a 1 stop solution - ie a company that can do it all as hopefully that should minimise communication problems.

I have a few questions on the above :

* What components of the service should I be expecting a company to provide ie land check, effective and proven lease etc - may sould a bit stupid but i have not previously bought property or land in Thailand before and would like to know what needs to be covered.

* What companies provide the above service ?

* What sort of costs would company charge - a breakdown of costings of the components of the service would be nice...

* What has your experience been with the company - both good and bad

As a side I have been in touch via email with 4 Thai based companies that seem to offer this kind of service but have only had a reply from 1 so far. As I get replies or not, i will provide updates on the info i get.

Thanks in advance

[Khun Bob]

Its been a while - and here are the results...

This is the email i sent out :

> Dear Sir/Madam

>

> I beleive I have seen somewhere on the ThaiVisa forum that you provide a

> service which assists with :

>

> * The legal issues in buying a house and land in Thailand - to assure that

> the house and land sale is genuine and done in a correct and professional

> manner

> * Arranges for a thai person to lease the land back to me on a 30+30 year

> basis.

>

> I am particularly interested in the details of the process that you assist

> with and the features of the lease you have. With regard to the lease the

> features I would like to know about are :

>

> * Which Thai person will lease the land back to me

> * What will happen should i wish to sell the land and the property which I

> expect to own

> * What will happen if the Thai person who leases the land to me dies

> * What happens at the end of the first 30 year period and how i can be

> assured of a further 30 year lease

> * How the lease can be future proofed against adverse legal changes to such

> leases to foerigners

>

> Could you please let me know if you provide such a service and all the

> featues of this as ideally i am looking for a 1 stop shop for house and land

>

> purchase with land lease back to me and what charges you will make for this

> service.

And here are the responses i had back...

Sunbelt

Thank you for your enquiry. We would be glad to help you on your questions.

* Which Thai person will lease the land back to me

Any Thai individual who is registered as the proprietor at the land department can lease the

land to you. The lease will be registered at the land department. If you are looking for

somebody to purchase the land and lease it to you we could assist.

* What will happen should I wish to sell the land and the property which I

expect to own

You do not have the rights to sell the property, since you are not registered as the proprietor, at

the land department. However you can sell the lease. We would be glad to help you on that.

* What will happen if the Thai person who leases the land to me dies

The lease agreement can be worded that in case the proprietor dies, the heirs will have to

retain the lease and keeping you as the lessee. However this is a matter which will have to be

settled by a jury in court. Our lease agreement is worded in a manner, that should their heirs not

oblige they will be penalized.

* What happens at the end of the first 30 year period and how i can be

assured of a further 30 year lease

At the end of the 30 years the lease can be renewed for another 30 years and be registered at

the land department. The proprietor is obliged to do this according to the lease agreement, if

not the proprietor will be penalized.

* How the lease can be future proofed against adverse legal changes to such

leases to foreigners

The lease agreements are registered and proofed by the land department so there will be no

surprises within these 30 years.

Could you please let me know if you provide such a service and all the

features of this as ideally i am looking for a 1 stop shop for house and land

purchase with land lease back to me and what charges you will make for this service.

When you intend to purchase a house or land we can help you with the following services:

1) Title Deed Search – Checking to see if the property has liens, if the seller has ownership

rights Fee 6,500 Baht + 7 % VAT

2) Drafting House/ Land purchase agreement Fee 18,500 Baht + 7% VAT

3) Registering the Lease or Land / House at Land department Fee 8,500 Baht + 7% VAT

siam-legal.com

Please find our responses below:

1) We could not arrange a Thai national for you.

2) You would not be able to conduct any transaction as you are not the owner of such land. If a Thai national sells it on in, you will only have the right to use that land. Then, you may claim back the price of land from the Thai nation in whose name you bought the land. With a lease agreement, you may only transfer that right of usage of land to the third person, not the land itself.

3) Yes, such clause can be specified in the agreement.

We normally do not recommend our client to acquire a leasehold property as it can be problematic. We do recommend them to acquire it in a Thai company's name.

Siam Global Associates

Thank you for your email. I apologise for the delay in responding.

We would be happy to assist you in your proposed purchase. However, there are many different structures that we use to purchase land and buildings. The structure we use would determine the price of our services and the government costs involved. We would need to discuss the details and come up with a solution that suits you.

Also, please inform us:

(1) When are you planning to buy?

(2) Is it a new building or existing?

(3) Is the seller a company or individual?

(4) Do you have a copy of the title deed? If so, please send it to us.

(5) Has the seller provided you with any purchase contracts? If so, please send them to us.

If you can provide us with some background and a copy of the title deed/sales contract, we can give you some idea of what we can for your and at what price.

We have a consultation fee of 8000 baht per hour. However, we offer discount rates for preliminary evaluations. We offer a special package of up to six hours of consultation for 30,000 baht, which would be offset against the total service fee, if you decide to instruct us.

Looking forward to hearing from you again.

in response to this i sent a further email and had the following response :

Thank you for your email. I am afraid that it is not possible for us to give an all-inclusive, up-front price for a property deal without understanding the background and details of the transaction, as there are so many variables.

Could I suggest that you come to see us for an initial hour's consultation, at the rates outlined below, at the end of which I am sure we would be in a better position to give you a ballpark figure.

>

>>

>> I'm not interested in paying on a time basis - i would like a price up

>> front for the service you provide. I dont have the information you ask

>> for.

>>

>> I am interested in doing a 30+30 lease and have questions in my original

>> email related to that.

seems to me that of the three that responded, 1 looks for more inviting than the other 2... and i have no association with any of these companies apart from being interested in using a company that will assist me in indirectly owning land in thailand.

[Khun Bob]

bump - is this a very sensitive area or just not very interesting

I would have thought some good discussion on the providers would be in everyones interests...

or has this been thrashed to death elsewhere - what i'm looking for is current information an i have done a search here - didnt get any good hits...

[chiangrai57020]

bump - is this a very sensitive area or just not very interesting

I would have thought some good discussion on the providers would be in everyones interests...

or has this been thrashed to death elsewhere - what i'm looking for is current information an i have done a search here - didnt get any good hits...

What I found interesting is that you received any answer at all! I have sent e-mails to each of the firms that you have acknowledged and never got a reply. So, consider yourself lucky.

I was surprised that Sunbelt quoted prices! One of the things that I have been trying to obtain is a price to 'Draft a Land Lease Agreement'. At least you received a quote. I would be very happy to pay the quoted price for a Draft Agreement but when you cannot get a response it is difficult trying to 'do business'!

In my particular situation I am located outside Bangkok. This could be the primary reason I do not get responses. Apparently the firms mentioned do not want to do business with a client that is not in Bangkok.

[JimmyGreaves]

Snap

This seems to be how this industry operates all over the world, there is always something hidden that you are not told about.

It would be so nice if there was a simple boxed price for:

The basic common options, I know that there are always variables but the companies offering service seem to offer complicated solutions.

Also I've come to the conclusion that these guys are always too busy to explain there services remotely and their websites are not that much better. I tried to enquire about business purchase off one of the service operators and it was a nightmare, I chased chased and chased them for information, in europe we are used to the seller chasing you for the sale.

As I say it would be nice if they had a built package price for services. After all a lease is a lease and it cannot be that difficult to setup a standard contract and amend it to suit certain needs.

Disappointed

Edited February 15, 2006 by jflundy

[Khun Bob]

nice to have some replies and a bit more insight - from what you have said it seems that this to get something decent sorted out could be a bit of a minefield. Have to say that from the responses i had, sunbelt's was the clearest and quoted prices up front - nice to know.

After a PM from a long standing member of TV - this leads me to ask

* who has been through setting up a lease recently

* what did you pay and what for what services/deliverables

* which company(ies) assisted you

* what was your experience with them like

Cheers

[excaliber]

nice to have some replies and a bit more insight - from what you have said it seems that this to get something decent sorted out could be a bit of a minefield. Have to say that from the responses i had, sunbelt's was the clearest and quoted prices up front - nice to know.

After a PM from a long standing member of TV - this leads me to ask

* who has been through setting up a lease recently

* what did you pay and what for what services/deliverables

* which company(ies) assisted you

* what was your experience with them like

Cheers

After securing the services of a Bangkok lawyer and several trips, I now posess a bonafied 30 year lease with a 30 year option. The lease is very detailed both in Thai and English. It can be easily modified to fit your particular needs. I'm not giving it away but could be persuaded for a fraction of what it cost me. Can also advise (from 1st hand experience, 2nd time around) the proper route to take without using a lawyer.....

Edited February 16, 2006 by excaliber

[Sunbelt Asia]

What I found interesting is that you received any answer at all! I have sent e-mails to each of the firms that you have acknowledged and never got a reply. So, consider yourself lucky.

We at Sunbelt strive to be the best in the industry with service. Six people work in our office with the title of clients relations. Their ONLY responsibility is to answer e-mails. One of the most frustrating heart-burning situations is reading in the forum when an e-mail has not been answered Our mgmt have the staff keep all outgoing e-mails stored on the hard drive. Many times we have found that the response was put in spam folder by the recipients ISP. Please be sure to check that folder. Feel free to PM us as well.

I was surprised that Sunbelt quoted prices! One of the things that I have been trying to obtain is a price to 'Draft a Land Lease Agreement'. At least you received a quote. I would be very happy to pay the quoted price for a Draft Agreement but when you cannot get a response it is difficult trying to 'do business'

We always quote the price. It is on our public site as well

http://www.lawyer.th.com/fees.asp

Agreement : Land/House Purchase Agreement 18,500

In my particular situation I am located outside Bangkok. This could be the primary reason I do not get responses. Apparently the firms mentioned do not want to do business with a client that is not in Bangkok.

We service clients throughout Thailand and are committed to doing so. We also have legal offices in Chaing Mai and Pattaya. Everyday clients are flying in from all parts of Thailand to meet us but

in the next two weeks, our legal office will be opening as well in Phuket Town at the Royal Phuket Business Center, next 30- 60 days three other Sunbelt Legal offices in Koh Samui, Koh Tao and Udon Thani will be opening.

who has been through setting up a lease recently

* what did you pay and what for what services/deliverables

* which company(ies) assisted you

* what was your experience with them like

If you need references from our clients that have this done this 30 year lease, no problem. Many clients that have had their lease problems solved, no longer have the need to read this Thaivisa.com topic.

After securing the services of a Bangkok lawyer and several trips, I now posess a bonafied 30 year lease with a 30 year option. The lease is very detailed both in Thai and English. It can be easily modified to fit your particular needs. I'm not giving it away but could be persuaded for a fraction of what it cost me.

You should be aware that contracts of lawyers are intellectual property and are under copyright. Many law offices use a boilerplate but every case we have found is unique and modifications have to be made.

www.lawyer.th.com

[Tomissan]

(quote) We at Sunbelt strive to be the best in the industry with service. Six people work in our office with the title of clients relations. Their ONLY responsibility is to answer e-mails.

I sent a detailed letter/email to you via this site, over a month ago and as of yet have not heard back from anyone in your office. although after sending my email was told that I would receive a reply within 24 hours or less.

I also wrote to an English solisitor "Crawshaw" on Samui who claimed his office was full of experts and were well connected; never heard back from him either.

Does the price you quoted for a lease contract include a title search, liens, etc.? (not counting travel expenses)

Edited February 16, 2006 by Tomissan

[Khun Bob]

Care to say who the bangkok lawyer is and what prices you had to pay - also what you experience was ?

Or are you looking to make a few bob out of this ?

Cheers

nice to have some replies and a bit more insight - from what you have said it seems that this to get something decent sorted out could be a bit of a minefield. Have to say that from the responses i had, sunbelt's was the clearest and quoted prices up front - nice to know.

After a PM from a long standing member of TV - this leads me to ask

* who has been through setting up a lease recently

* what did you pay and what for what services/deliverables

* which company(ies) assisted you

* what was your experience with them like

Cheers

After securing the services of a Bangkok lawyer and several trips, I now posess a bonafied 30 year lease with a 30 year option. The lease is very detailed both in Thai and English. It can be easily modified to fit your particular needs. I'm not giving it away but could be persuaded for a fraction of what it cost me. Can also advise (from 1st hand experience, 2nd time around) the proper route to take without using a lawyer.....

Sunbelt - where in udon thani and do you have an office in khon kaen ?

Can you PM/email me some existing customer references ?

[Sunbelt Asia]

I sent a detailed letter/email to you via this site, over a month ago and as of yet have not heard back from anyone in your office. although after sending my email was told that I would receive a reply within 24 hours or less.

Sorry to hear you had no feedback. By the way, are you sure it was our firm? We don't use auto responders (except on a free Sunbelt newsletter signup from www.sunbeltasia.com) and I've never seen one e-mail ever from our firm that said “You’ll receive a reply within 24 hours or less” We have supervisors who monitor their e-mail responses and they are not aware of anytime they have seen an e-mail response like this either. Our staff is paid to answer the e-mail at that point and time. Not saying that it couldn't happen but the odds are slim it was a response from us at www.lawyer.th.com If it did happen this is unacceptable and I sincerely apologize. As a way of saying sorry, we’ll do the agreement for free, if this is indeed the case. Please show us a copy of the 24 hour response from www.www.lawyer.th.com and we will get right on it.

Does the price you quoted for a lease contract include a title search, liens, etc.? (not counting travel expenses)

Our professional fee for the title deed search as mention in the OP's post is 6,500 Baht plus VAT.

Registration at the Land Dept is 8,500 Baht plus VAT.

Could you please confirm you sent your question to the www.lawyer.th.com site? Thanks.

www.lawyer.th.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

Sunbelt - where in udon thani and do you have an office in khon kaen ?

The office has not open yet. However the American lawyer who will be the office mgr has been negotiating on office space near the Robinson's.

Sorry no office in Khon Kaen and none plan at this time. Getting a good demand in the Udon Thani area so why we are opening there.

Can you PM/email me some existing customer references ?

Will get the clearance from three clients and then will send them to you.

www.lawyer.th.com

[silk123]

nice to have some replies and a bit more insight - from what you have said it seems that this to get something decent sorted out could be a bit of a minefield. Have to say that from the responses i had, sunbelt's was the clearest and quoted prices up front - nice to know.

After a PM from a long standing member of TV - this leads me to ask

* who has been through setting up a lease recently

* what did you pay and what for what services/deliverables

* which company(ies) assisted you

* what was your experience with them like

Cheers

After securing the services of a Bangkok lawyer and several trips, I now posess a bonafied 30 year lease with a 30 year option. The lease is very detailed both in Thai and English. It can be easily modified to fit your particular needs. I'm not giving it away but could be persuaded for a fraction of what it cost me. Can also advise (from 1st hand experience, 2nd time around) the proper route to take without using a lawyer.....

To save someone emailing the guy above excalibre wants 10k just to email a copy of his lease. sad when foreigners go so stingey like that trying to rip off other foreigners rather than just being a bit good hearted.

My dad used say "meanness is a disease of that generation and it stinks so people can avoid them and leave them in their starved world" along them lines anyway and he was right.

Ok i came to thailand because it was cheap on a fixed foreign income and of course the women but i do notice a lot of overly stingey foreigners over here. They must be in stingey persons heaven but meanness is hel_l on their minds.

[LaoPo]

We service clients throughout Thailand and are committed to doing so. We also have legal offices in Chaing Mai and Pattaya. Everyday clients are flying in from all parts of Thailand to meet us but

in the next two weeks, our legal office will be opening as well in Phuket Town at the Royal Phuket Business Center, next 30- 60 days three other Sunbelt Legal offices in Koh Samui, Koh Tao and Udon Thani will be opening.

www.lawyer.th.com

Sorry, I read this post just today...

I'm pleasantly surprised that your company is doing so well. My compliments.

Just wondering why you were opening an office in Koh Tao?* Sorry, I've never been there but was under the impression that it is a very small island mainly for divers/backpackers? Not really a business/real estate/legal kind of customers....or am I wrong?

Good luck to you; We might need you one of these days in the future

*....and why not Koh Phangan for instance (but assume you've your office now on Samui as well, catering for the needs of Phangan)

LaoPo

[Sunbelt Asia]

Just wondering why you were opening an office in Koh Tao?* Sorry, I've never been there but was under the impression that it is a very small island mainly for divers/backpackers? Not really a business/real estate/legal kind of customers....or am I wrong?

The Koh Tao office will handle Koh Phangan as well. The office is open but the lawyer in Bangkok has not moved down there yet.

Why? Lots of foreigners need legal advice about property laws there. The demand is there.

Good luck to you; We might need you one of these days in the future

Thank you. All the best to you.

www.lawyer.th.com

[excaliber]

(quote from Silk123)To save someone emailing the guy above excalibre wants 10k just to email a copy of his lease. sad when foreigners go so stingey like that trying to rip off other foreigners rather than just being a bit good hearted.

My dad used say "meanness is a disease of that generation and it stinks so people can avoid them and leave them in their starved world" along them lines anyway and he was right.

Ok i came to thailand because it was cheap on a fixed foreign income and of course the women but i do notice a lot of overly stingey foreigners over here. They must be in stingey persons heaven but meanness is hel_l on their minds. Silk123

response:

Your notice above is slightly incorrect and rude also.

First of all I told you the price was negotiable which also included hard copies of the lease both Thai & English. In addition, instructions for how to do it on your own without having to pay for a lawyer......Your response was: "I can get a standard lease from the land office for 3,000 baht so I can offer you 1,000 baht for the Thai & English 30-year lease." or trade some sort or remote control or phone credit.

You purchased two houses. one @ 700,000 baht and you're too cheap to get a lawyer and too cheap to pay more than 1,000 baht for a bonafied, translated, certified lease. hello

I see many of your posts are more or less asking for freebees. wake up. The lease you can get from the land office is in the Thai language only @ 3,000 baht. If you weren't so cheap yourself you would have at least offered the same 3k baht for both Thai & English version, plus the "how to do it yourself", which is in itself worth quite a bit more. If you have anything else to say to me I will gladly give you my email instead of posting your immature remarks on this forum.

Your rude behavior and expectations of how farang should be in Thailand are somewhat presumptuous and naive. I went through alot of trouble and expense to get this 3-page lease and you expect someone who you don't even know to just hand it over. Look back through the above posts again to see what Lawyer's are charging....why not offer them 1,000 baht for the lease and 'how to" and see the response.

Edited April 23, 2006 by excaliber

[silk123]

Sorry. Maybe your right.

[RAZZELL]

Sorry. Maybe your right.

I think so....

Edited April 23, 2006 by RAZZELL

[Boon Mee]

Sorry. Maybe your right.

I think so....

There ain't no free lunch and certainly not in LOS...

[Lance_A_Lot]

I recommend not utilizing a company, but rather enlisting the services of a reputable real estate attorney. I bught a home in East Pattaya and took a 30 year renewable lease with the assistance of a competanat and reputable real estate attorney. The total cost for all was 8000. Baht.

[Dragonman]

I recommend not utilizing a company, but rather enlisting the services of a reputable real estate attorney. I bught a home in East Pattaya and took a 30 year renewable lease with the assistance of a competanat and reputable real estate attorney. The total cost for all was 8000. Baht.

What do you mean by "I bought a home". Did you set up a Thai company or did a Thai National purchase, and you have a 30 year lease. Is the 8,000 baht for everything; purchase, registration and drafting the lease? All leases are renewable if the lessor is interested, and if there's something in it for them.

[xyz]

I recommend not utilizing a company, but rather enlisting the services of a reputable real estate attorney. I bught a home in East Pattaya and took a 30 year renewable lease with the assistance of a competanat and reputable real estate attorney. The total cost for all was 8000. Baht.

What is the name of the lawyer you used for the 30 year lease?

[JimGant]

Question for Sunbelt (the following quote is attributed to you):

What will happen if the Thai person who leases the land to me dies

The lease agreement can be worded that in case the proprietor dies, the heirs will have to

retain the lease and keeping you as the lessee. However this is a matter which will have to be

settled by a jury in court. Our lease agreement is worded in a manner, that should their heirs not

oblige they will be penalized.

It was my (and several others') understanding that the lessee is protected from lessor turnover during the initial 30-year lease contract, ie, the lessor dying, selling, or otherwise disposing of the property will in no way abrogate the contract, which is on-record at the Land Office. Yes, if you have a 30-year renewal clause -- and your original lessor is out of the picture at renewal time -- you now do NOT have codified Thai law protection and just might have to fight it out in court -- regardless of any lease agreement wording.

At least this is how the Land Office explained it to us.

Comments?

[peter416]

What I found interesting is that you received any answer at all! I have sent e-mails to each of the firms that you have acknowledged and never got a reply. So, consider yourself lucky.

We at Sunbelt strive to be the best in the industry with service. Six people work in our office with the title of clients relations. Their ONLY responsibility is to answer e-mails. One of the most frustrating heart-burning situations is reading in the forum when an e-mail has not been answered Our mgmt have the staff keep all outgoing e-mails stored on the hard drive. Many times we have found that the response was put in spam folder by the recipients ISP. Please be sure to check that folder. Feel free to PM us as well.

I was surprised that Sunbelt quoted prices! One of the things that I have been trying to obtain is a price to 'Draft a Land Lease Agreement'. At least you received a quote. I would be very happy to pay the quoted price for a Draft Agreement but when you cannot get a response it is difficult trying to 'do business'

We always quote the price. It is on our public site as well

http://www.lawyer.th.com/fees.asp

Agreement : Land/House Purchase Agreement 18,500

In my particular situation I am located outside Bangkok. This could be the primary reason I do not get responses. Apparently the firms mentioned do not want to do business with a client that is not in Bangkok.

We service clients throughout Thailand and are committed to doing so. We also have legal offices in Chaing Mai and Pattaya. Everyday clients are flying in from all parts of Thailand to meet us but

in the next two weeks, our legal office will be opening as well in Phuket Town at the Royal Phuket Business Center, next 30- 60 days three other Sunbelt Legal offices in Koh Samui, Koh Tao and Udon Thani will be opening.

who has been through setting up a lease recently

* what did you pay and what for what services/deliverables

* which company(ies) assisted you

* what was your experience with them like

If you need references from our clients that have this done this 30 year lease, no problem. Many clients that have had their lease problems solved, no longer have the need to read this Thaivisa.com topic.

After securing the services of a Bangkok lawyer and several trips, I now posess a bonafied 30 year lease with a 30 year option. The lease is very detailed both in Thai and English. It can be easily modified to fit your particular needs. I'm not giving it away but could be persuaded for a fraction of what it cost me.

You should be aware that contracts of lawyers are intellectual property and are under copyright. Many law offices use a boilerplate but every case we have found is unique and modifications have to be made.

www.lawyer.th.com

I tried to obtain a price from Sunbelt Asia only to be given the run around.

I had to increase the capital from 1. to 2m on my company for a Work Permit and saw Sunbelt Asia's price on the web which I thought good - but it turned out too good ! When I eventually managed to talk to their office and get a quote their final price was 10,308 Baht of which they said 5,600 Baht was Government fees (?) - nonsense !

I have now manage to find a well respected firm in Pattaya who did everything for 6,000 Baht !

[Khun Bob]

interesting...

Its been a while but i am about to follow up on the references provided by sunbelt. Lets see who they are and what they say...