Are Any Of The Government/Programs, Price Supports Helping You?

[slapout]

I have seen no benifit, but then I let the wife take care of the farms, now that they are set up. She seems to sell below the prices I hear about from the newspapers and I have yet to find anyone who got rice price quoted, sounds like rubber is in freefall, mango, lamyai, veggies, pork,etc seem, when sold in bulk are still very marginal.

Someone must have some good news???

[Mosha]

The rubber guys are way short of a hinted at 100 Baht a kg for mats

[xen]

I wonder if this is one of the benifits/price supports , but when i came in thru Swampy a week or so ago i paid only 700 baht for a 1 litre bottle of Baileys Original but in April i paid 850 for the same amount. Maybe there is less duty on booze now that the government has readjusted it's policies or introduced new reforms to help the Nation.

Edited August 16, 2012 by xen

[Khonwan]

We benefited. From memory, cassava was being guaranteed at around Bt2,800 per tonne earlier this year. We could only get around Bt2,400 (the middlemen getting the balance) but that was still a LOT better than the price of around Bt1,800 that those not qualifying received. We would have benefited more under Abhisit’s scheme, which saw shortfalls in the price paid directly to the farmer, including those who only rented land. The very poor were/are cut out of Yingluck’s scheme.

Rgds

Khonwan

[soidog2]

Registration is a must for anyone doing large volume.

We benefited from both cassava & rice.

Gov. Guaranteed price is substantially over the open market.

At times, it makes the difference between making a good profit or not.

If your crop fails because of natural causes, the gov will pay you.

Yes it is pain to register.

[somo]

MIL got 5000 Baht for her bit of paper from the gov. The crooks got 384,000 out of it though so someone is benefiting just not the right people.

[soidog2]

The people crying sour grapes simply do not know how to use the system.

[somo]

The people crying sour grapes simply do not know how to use the system.

I am not crying sour grapes (it doesn't affect me too much) but you are certainly talking rubbish!

There are loads of poor farmers in my area who were robbed of their so called right to a decent price by corrupt practice.

Not even our village boss could use the system and he understands it inside out.

All the local buyers of cassava refused to be part of it unless you gave them at least 50% of the subsidy. There was also a queing system and unless you owed them money you couldn't even get in that.

Just because in your area you could access it don't assume it is the same everywhere. You should know that things vary a lot around the country.

[Issangeorge]

In my village people grow sticky rice and mostly for their own consumption, very little is sold, so the rice subsidy doesn't help them. However even though it hasn't taken effect yet all the workers want 300 baht per day to work in the paddy fields, so the rice farm owners are paying a high price for labour. As far as I can see only the rich large acreage rice owners are benefiting from the subsidy, and they probably get illegal labour from Burma or Laos, so once again the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I don't understand why the Isaan people support this government, I have not seen that it helps them at all.

[jcw]

IssanGeorge: Because they get paid to vote Red, that is why. Pretty simple really.

It really is Black & White, (or red and Red !!)

[soidog2]

The people crying sour grapes simply do not know how to use the system.

I am not crying sour grapes (it doesn't affect me too much) but you are certainly talking rubbish!

There are loads of poor farmers in my area who were robbed of their so called right to a decent price by corrupt practice.

Not even our village boss could use the system and he understands it inside out.

All the local buyers of cassava refused to be part of it unless you gave them at least 50% of the subsidy. There was also a queing system and unless you owed them money you couldn't even get in that.

Just because in your area you could access it don't assume it is the same everywhere. You should know that things vary a lot around the country.

I do not want to turn this in to an endless conversation, I also do not doubt what you are relaying is at least partially correct.

So much more reason to understand the system, it is not all doom and gloom.

In every province there are only a couple of truly Gov. authorized mills.

To be eligible for the Gov. subsidized price, you must register for your quota according to how much land you cultivate.(there is a max allowed)

To actually receive the Gov. subsidized price you must sell your crop directly and only to the authorized mills.

Payment is never in cash; it must be cleared through your BAAC account, it can take as long as 90 days to get paid.

Everybody else is a second/third hand middle man. They take advantage of people's ignorance and need for cash.

This year, the cassava Gov price to open market difference was: at times, over one baht, calculate what percentage is that !

[Khonwan]

I disagree with you Soidog2. I am just as aware of these conditions as you, yet I couldn’t obtain the guarantee except via middlemen. Somo is quite correct in pointing out that just because it can be done in your area you assume, erroneously, that it must be so elsewhere. In my case, there are no government authorised mills anywhere near us. To participate in the scheme, all of the cassava roots from the farmers who qualified were purchased by only two government authorized middlemen who transported them to another province. One was the Nayok Or Bor Dor and the other was the Kamnan. I consider myself one of the lucky cassava farmers: a great many of our friends in the district rent land or farm their own Bor Tor 5 land and therefore did not qualify for the scheme. Their complaints are not sour grapes.

Rgds

Khonwan

[slapout]

I was told by one of the locals that to register/receive the rice price set by government, that you had to own the land and show chonate. In effect he was saying those who rent are not going to get the 15 or 20 baht a kilo advertised. Can anyone confirm this limitation to the program?

[somo]

The people crying sour grapes simply do not know how to use the system.

I am not crying sour grapes (it doesn't affect me too much) but you are certainly talking rubbish!

There are loads of poor farmers in my area who were robbed of their so called right to a decent price by corrupt practice.

Not even our village boss could use the system and he understands it inside out.

All the local buyers of cassava refused to be part of it unless you gave them at least 50% of the subsidy. There was also a queing system and unless you owed them money you couldn't even get in that.

Just because in your area you could access it don't assume it is the same everywhere. You should know that things vary a lot around the country.

I do not want to turn this in to an endless conversation, I also do not doubt what you are relaying is at least partially correct.

Excuse me but what I said was 100% correct not partially correct.

So much more reason to understand the system, it is not all doom and gloom.

As mentioned above even our village boss was excluded but not through a failure to understand. You are not alone in understanding.

In every province there are only a couple of truly Gov. authorized mills.

To be eligible for the Gov. subsidized price, you must register for your quota according to how much land you cultivate.(there is a max allowed)

To actually receive the Gov. subsidized price you must sell your crop directly and only to the authorized mills.

Payment is never in cash; it must be cleared through your BAAC account, it can take as long as 90 days to get paid.

Took about 10 days when the crooks did it.

Everybody else is a second/third hand middle man. They take advantage of people's ignorance and need for cash.

This year, the cassava Gov price to open market difference was: at times, over one baht, calculate what percentage is that !

[soidog2]

To make all of you happy ! yes corruption is everywhere !

Probe reveals cheating in pledging scheme

Pranee Muenphangwaree

The Nation August 18, 2012 1:00 am

The Commerce Ministry has found cases of cheating under the government's pledging programme for both rice and cassava.

Commerce Minister Boonsong Teriyapirom said yesterday that a ministry official had reported 15 cases of illegal practices under the paddy rice-pledging scheme, mainly in the Central region, including Suphan Buri, Kamphaeng Phet, Phitsanulok, Nakhon Sawan, Singburi, Prachinburi, and other provinces like Chaiyaphum, Buri Ram, Phetchburi, Phatthalung, Prachuab Khiri Khan and Nakhon Si Thammarat. Most of the illegal practices involved rights circumvention, deductions for contamination and the loss of pledging list.

The ministry is conducting an investigation and some cases will be sent to the Department of Special Investigation.

In addition, cassava growers in Nakhon Ratchasima and Buri Ram have complained against cassava field operators that they did not get any farmer certification for price-pledging programme worth Bt13 million. Two operators were caught while three others escaped. Some stocks were found to have disappeared from the warehouse and cassava fields had not delivered their production to the central warehouse.

Boonsong said the ministry is drawing up the terms of reference for the rice-bidding practice to facilitate release of government stock.

[jamescollister]

My opinion as a rubber man, who has done some cassava and rice, the Government should get out of all these alleged schemes. Let the market set the price. All I ever hear is that the Government is going to intervene and set a minimum price. That price never appears. We have been told that the Government is to buy rubber at 90 Baht a kilo [ RSS ] yet when we go to sell, they say the rubber is no good and offer 50 Baht a kilo, yet private buyer are paying 75 Baht a kilo.

Someone is making big money out of these schemes, but the farmers are not seeing it. Jim

[Gary A]

To sum up all these schemes, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Anyone in our area who tries to get the "guaranteed" price runs into all sorts of road blocks. The entire system stinks to high heaven.

ADDED - it would be just as well for the government to eliminate all the price supports. Let the market determine the prices because the farmers are seeing no benefit.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Gary A

[Jotham79]

I only just became aware that rubber prices were dropping. Now I understand where all the land buyers went to. About a year ago, hoards of people from Bangkok came through offering around 30K baht a rai for anything with a chanote with plans to plant rubber. I figure someone must have conducted seminars on how to get rich quick with rubber. In any case I've not heard of any buyers in the last couple of months or so, but there are a few small patches of rubber trees around now. God know where they will sell around here.

[Khonwan]

Jim & Gary, I recall when rising commodity prices drove up the price of farm produce (around 4-5 years ago, I think), which led to hunger on a massive scale in a great many countries; people in developed countries too were protesting, e.g. Italians who found they could no longer afford pasta. That was the result of allowing the market to set the price. Let me remind everyone that the current world-wide economic crisis is the result of allowing an unbridled market free of little political interference.

I see less of a case for subsidies in the case of rubber since it is not a food product but rice obviously is, as is the majority of cassava output.

I’m reposting something I wrote in another post 3 weeks ago:

I think we are here dealing with two issues: 1) should subsidies exist; 2) what is the best mechanism to achieve the objective.

If I can first deal with the second: Abhisit’s guarantee scheme for cassava (since I’m familiar with that) would have ensured that the objective was met in that the subsidy ONLY went to the farmer. He established the scheme and set a guarantee price of Bt2,500 in his ultimate year before the general election. The mechanism (as I understand it) was very simple: should you only receive, say, Bt2,400 per tonne from the mill/yard you would present the receipt to BAAC and have the shortfall made up to Bt2,500 which would be credited to your BAAC account. I may be wrong about aspects of this since it was implemented but not required or used since the market price was much higher. I could see room for corruption in this scheme (though there may have been checks that I’m unaware of) but none that would have disadvantaged the farmer. Yingluck’s scheme was a rehash of her brother’s, which was so obviously going to enrich the middlemen, which I feel sure was intended, at the expense of the farmer.

Should there be a subsidy scheme at all? I believe that most people around the world want farmers to be better rewarded for their very hard work that is so vital to the very survival of all people. I believe that most people in the world want basic food prices to be affordable by all people. I believe that these two objectives are often incompatible when left to free market forces.

Society understands that we must preserve agriculture – the reason is obvious. Many individual countries go further by recognizing that they need to preserve agriculture within their own boundaries to minimise geopolitical risks and ensure food security. Hence the existence of agricultural subsidies in the developed countries, such as the USA, since their absence may well lead to the abandonment of agriculture within those countries in favour of cheaper imports. I fully support the free market but believe, as these governments apparently do, that the production of the most basic vitals must be protected, and protected at a national level.

Rgds

Khonwan

[jamescollister]

Jim & Gary, I recall when rising commodity prices drove up the price of farm produce (around 4-5 years ago, I think), which led to hunger on a massive scale in a great many countries; people in developed countries too were protesting, e.g. Italians who found they could no longer afford pasta. That was the result of allowing the market to set the price. Let me remind everyone that the current world-wide economic crisis is the result of allowing an unbridled market free of little political interference.

I see less of a case for subsidies in the case of rubber since it is not a food product but rice obviously is, as is the majority of cassava output.

I’m reposting something I wrote in another post 3 weeks ago:

I think we are here dealing with two issues: 1) should subsidies exist; 2) what is the best mechanism to achieve the objective.

If I can first deal with the second: Abhisit’s guarantee scheme for cassava (since I’m familiar with that) would have ensured that the objective was met in that the subsidy ONLY went to the farmer. He established the scheme and set a guarantee price of Bt2,500 in his ultimate year before the general election. The mechanism (as I understand it) was very simple: should you only receive, say, Bt2,400 per tonne from the mill/yard you would present the receipt to BAAC and have the shortfall made up to Bt2,500 which would be credited to your BAAC account. I may be wrong about aspects of this since it was implemented but not required or used since the market price was much higher. I could see room for corruption in this scheme (though there may have been checks that I’m unaware of) but none that would have disadvantaged the farmer. Yingluck’s scheme was a rehash of her brother’s, which was so obviously going to enrich the middlemen, which I feel sure was intended, at the expense of the farmer.

Should there be a subsidy scheme at all? I believe that most people around the world want farmers to be better rewarded for their very hard work that is so vital to the very survival of all people. I believe that most people in the world want basic food prices to be affordable by all people. I believe that these two objectives are often incompatible when left to free market forces.

Society understands that we must preserve agriculture – the reason is obvious. Many individual countries go further by recognizing that they need to preserve agriculture within their own boundaries to minimise geopolitical risks and ensure food security. Hence the existence of agricultural subsidies in the developed countries, such as the USA, since their absence may well lead to the abandonment of agriculture within those countries in favour of cheaper imports. I fully support the free market but believe, as these governments apparently do, that the production of the most basic vitals must be protected, and protected at a national level.

Rgds

Khonwan

My understanding is that 98% of Thai cassava goes to China for ethnol production not food. Jim

[Khonwan]

Not so, Jim. That New York Times report stated 98% of cassava export went to China (and around 95% of that was used for ethanol there). Most cassava is processed domestically for flour, animal feed (which is, of course, part of our food-chain), MSG flavouring, etc. A small amount is also used for ethanol in Thailand but to-date molasses has been the feedstock of choice for Thai ethanol producers based on cost. Only around 25% of all Thai cassava is used for ethanol (domestic use and exports together).

Rgds

Khonwan

[jamescollister]

Not so, Jim. That New York Times report stated 98% of cassava export went to China (and around 95% of that was used for ethanol there). Most cassava is processed domestically for flour, animal feed (which is, of course, part of our food-chain), MSG flavouring, etc. A small amount is also used for ethanol in Thailand but to-date molasses has been the feedstock of choice for Thai ethanol producers based on cost. Only around 25% of all Thai cassava is used for ethanol (domestic use and exports together).Cassava is your game and I may have got the number from the article you quote. Don't know how much cassava Thailand makes;

Rgds

Khonwan

Cassava is your your game and I may have got the number from the article you quote. I stand corrected.

Still not in favor of Government interference in the alleged free market, then I am anti Government, all Governments be they east or west. Small Government is good Government. One of the things I like about here most, don't have 20 Government agencies telling me where, when and how I can take a crap. Jim

[somo]

Jim I agree with how you feel about the freedom we have here and for me too it is one reason why I love the place

Having said that the whole question of subsidies for farmers is I believe something governments should look at.

In Thailand most farmers have only a little land and generally just manage to survive on what they produce.

Leaving such vulnerable people defenseless against market fluctuations over which they have no control is I think unfair.

Larger farmers can put money aside in the good times to see them over the hard times but small farmers need help to smooth the risks.

Ideally subsidies should have this smoothing effect. Unfortunately the gov. here has no idea or no desire on how to impliment a workable system but one that really did give farmers a more reliable return should be welcomed.

It is I think the systemic corruption that is giving the idea of subsidies a bad name and not subsidies harming the market.

[loong]

Sitting on the fence here, I can appreciate and respect the opinions from both sides of the coin.

However, although I feel that the world price of rice is really too low, especially when you see the price that the end user pays in countries that import rice, government support of price does not work. Not in its current form anyway.

I doubt that anyone could dispute that the money that is intended to help the poor farmer usually ends up in the pockets of the wrong people.

I have mentioned this before, maybe in this thread or another, that I would rather see the billions of baht that is wasted with these subsidies be used to provide reservoirs, canals and irrigation projects. It is ridiculous that the farmers suffer with floods for months on end and then followed with drought.

I would think that right now, many farmers across the country are once again praying for rain as they see their crops are parched and with no irrigation they face the possibility of producing next to nothing. If they can't produce xx tonnes of their crop because of the unreliable rainy season, price guarantee is irrelevant!

[SouthernMan3]

The people crying sour grapes simply do not know how to use the system.

Now that's a load !

[SouthernMan3]

IssanGeorge: Because they get paid to vote Red, that is why. Pretty simple really.

It really is Black & White, (or red and Red !!)

So true !

[SouthernMan3]

The rubber guys are way short of a hinted at 100 Baht a kg for mats

First of all we sell/they buy by the kilo.

Not mat.

And yea, it dropped like 12 bht. in the last 10 days....

[SouthernMan3]

The rubber guys are way short of a hinted at 100 Baht a kg for mats

First of all we sell/they buy by the kilo.

Not mat.

And yea, it dropped like 12 bht. in the last 10 days....

Excuse me, 11.

http://www.thainr.com/en/index.php?detail=pr-local

[jamescollister]

The rubber guys are way short of a hinted at 100 Baht a kg for mats

First of all we sell/they buy by the kilo.

Not mat.

And yea, it dropped like 12 bht. in the last 10 days....

Excuse me, 11.

http://www.thainr.co...detail=pr-local

take no notice of the rubber associations posted prices, I and others have tried to contact them as to where these prices are being paid. Never get a reply, they often quote local prices higher than the national auction rate. They give an Ubon price and I know of no big buyers in Ubon [factories]

As for mat or kilo if you make sheet it should be about 1 kilo, 3 liters of latex, just an easy way to know how much you have without weighing, count the sheets each day and you have a good idea of how much you have, Jim]

[Mosha]

The rubber guys are way short of a hinted at 100 Baht a kg for mats

First of all we sell/they buy by the kilo.

Not mat.

And yea, it dropped like 12 bht. in the last 10 days....

Excuse me, 11.

http://www.thainr.co...detail=pr-local

OK I know it's by the Kg, mats/sheets you get more, kee yang dry cup rubber you get a lot less, The last sheets we sold, and it;s good rubber, We got 68 Baht just a few days back. 3 weeks earlier it was at 82..