Three Foreigners Killed In Road Accident

[moonoi]

THESE DRIVERS ARE ######ING INSANE! Sure there are bad drivers in the West, but you don't see this kind of madness daily.

So why are many people killed on the roads in European countries?

Did you bother to read my posting giving you UK figures....or is the UK not part of europe in your mind?

Thailand 14000

UK 3500

France 6000

Much lower death rates in europe than Thailand as you can see

Maybe its more if you add all european countries together but applying this logic we should include the entire road deaths figure for the ASEAN region. Quite a pointless comparison.

Maigo I've noticed in previous threads you like to bash foreigners whilst not accepting that the standards of driving here could be improved.....a trait I've noticed with many thai (we're thai so we know best). The reason Europe and the US are where they are today is because they accept that they don't necessarily know everything and that they could learn from other countries.......attitudes here need to change and I'm happy to see that the younger generations of Thai realise this and are loosing there xenophobic views.......it is to the benefit of Thailand that this happens......you don't have to loose your national identity by accepting that maybe you could learn from the way other nations do things.

Loosen up and stop the needless Thais' are best Foreigners go home if you don't like it here attitude. We're here because we want to be, but we also want to assist in trying to make this country we all love a safer place. So instead why don't you use reasoned arguments to renforce your view. Let us debate the issues and open your mind to whole new possibilities as we are open to the view of Thais'

[spog]

So why are many people killed on the roads in European countries?

LOS deaths in 2002: 14,000

UK deaths in 2002: 3,450

Population and number of drivers: roughly comparable.

I think you may have the question the wrong way around.

If the UK had the same ammount of motorcycle riders as Thailand does, then you may well see similar figures, 70% of road deaths in Thailand are Motorcycle riders or Passengers.

Well, that's just your assumption rather than a fact.

[moonoi]

So why are many people killed on the roads in European countries?

LOS deaths in 2002: 14,000

UK deaths in 2002: 3,450

Population and number of drivers: roughly comparable.

I think you may have the question the wrong way around.

If the UK had the same ammount of motorcycle riders as Thailand does, then you may well see similar figures, 70% of road deaths in Thailand are Motorcycle riders or Passengers.

Well, that's just your assumption rather than a fact.

Agreed in the UK the motorcycle test is quite difficult, here most don't even bother with licenses and for those that do its only a case of turn up to the local license authority and pay you fee....whoopie you have you m/c license

Also car drivers in the UK a taugh to look out for motorcycles. Motorcycles do not cut underneath cars in the uk (a major cause of accidents here) nor do they pull out of sides roads without looking to see if its clear first. Before you even can get on a m/c in UK you have to pass a certificate of basic training to be able to ride on the road. All of these things implemented to reduce the number of motorcycle deaths on uk roads. There are also constant tv campaigns to make sure people do not loose awareness of m/c riders.

Even doing half of these things would improve the situation here. How about implementing some sensible laws of the road for motorcycles (mainly don't go underneath a car when its turning left)

EDIT: I forgot to add.....wearing and securing a proper motorcycle helmet would probably more than halve Thailands m/c death rate.

Edited January 25, 2006 by moonoi

[Plus]

The statistics here are interesting. It's true that 70% of deaths are motorcyclists - that makes Thailand and UK comparable. But how many cars are on the UK roads and how many cars are in Thailand? How many cars are in the US? How many motorcycles? Total population does not really matter - it's the driving population we should count.

Driving in the "passing" lane is ok on major national highways. It's a no no only on provincial roads. Watch out when you get off that Chonburi motorway because that's where the police often sets traps to catch people still driving in the right lane - you enter provincial road and they'll get you for this.

If the traffic is heavy this rule doesn't make sense at all, or when the left lane where you supposed to drive is completely ruined by ten wheelers.

Speed limits aren't God given and somewhat arbitrary, people usually settle on the speed they feel comfortable with. Speed limits on the signs are just guidelines, no one takes them seriously.

Some people argue that speed limits have little effect on accident rates.

I think that if you see a bus, or any other vehicle, approaching you from behind at 130+ and don't give him the way you are actually making it more dangerous. Oh so self righteous, but a bit of a <deleted>.

[wilko]

So why are many people killed on the roads in European countries?

LOS deaths in 2002: 14,000

UK deaths in 2002: 3,450

Population and number of drivers: roughly comparable.

I think you may have the question the wrong way around.

If the UK had the same ammount of motorcycle riders as Thailand does, then you may well see similar figures, 70% of road deaths in Thailand are Motorcycle riders or Passengers.

That is an utterly fatuous comment - have you any idea of the numbers of motorbikes in either country? Do you think the road systems and driving codes are in anyway comparable? Trying to boil it down to numbers as if we are on an even playing field is a complete waste of time

[meadish_sweetball]

So why are many people killed on the roads in European countries?

LOS deaths in 2002: 14,000

UK deaths in 2002: 3,450

Population and number of drivers: roughly comparable.

I think you may have the question the wrong way around.

If the UK had the same ammount of motorcycle riders as Thailand does, then you may well see similar figures, 70% of road deaths in Thailand are Motorcycle riders or Passengers.

That is an utterly fatuous comment - have you any idea of the numbers of motorbikes in either country? Do you think the road systems and driving codes are in anyway comparable? Trying to boil it down to numbers as if we are on an even playing field is a complete waste of time

Even with the same numbers of motorcycles on the roads, UK would still have the lower death figures. Why?

1. People are taught and tested much more thoroughly before getting a driving license.

2. Not as many people in the UK drive without a license (=no formal training).

3. The level of corruption among the police force is lower. It is more unlikely that you will be able to bribe your way out of a drunk driving accident, so for this reason as a driver you will be more cautious.

4. The acceptance for drunk driving and bad driving in general is lower. Social pressure cause people to conform.

Just creating a functioning, obligatory system for licensing drivers would likely lower the death toll on the Thai roads.

[penzman]

Actually my own personal view on driving here is only that if Thai drivers were more aware of what is going on around them whilst driving and were a little more courtious (it would be nice to be able to merge with traffic without having a battle of wills against another thai driver that "just has to be in front" because I might delay them arriving at there destination by 5 seconds) then there would be less accidents, freer flowing traffic and happier people all around

"To Be Number One"

Was a nice initiative against drugs but I sometimes think many Thai drivers got the message wrong.

[charles]

So why are many people killed on the roads in European countries?

LOS deaths in 2002: 14,000

UK deaths in 2002: 3,450

Population and number of drivers: roughly comparable.

I think you may have the question the wrong way around.

If the UK had the same ammount of motorcycle riders as Thailand does, then you may well see similar figures, 70% of road deaths in Thailand are Motorcycle riders or Passengers.

You can't have it both ways - what about the number of car (including pick-ups) drivers? The number of cars on the road in the UK will be many multiples of Thailand. Yet Thailand still has more "non-motorcycle" deaths than the UK.

[Plus]

Even with the same numbers of motorcycles on the roads, UK would still have the lower death figures. Why?

1. People are taught and tested much more thoroughly before getting a driving license.

2. Not as many people in the UK drive without a license (=no formal training).

3. The level of corruption among the police force is lower. It is more unlikely that you will be able to bribe your way out of a drunk driving accident, so for this reason as a driver you will be more cautious.

4. The acceptance for drunk driving and bad driving in general is lower. Social pressure cause people to conform.

It would be a big shock and an eye opener is the numbers are comparable. 30% of 14,200 is less than UK 4,500. How many more cars are on UK roads? Forget the motorcycles for a moment? Any idea?

[JXXXL]

Of course you have to adjust numbers to reflect number of cars on the road. Comparing absolute numbers between countries is idiocy.

There was a cover story in Time about a year ago about the shockingly high road fatailty rate in Asian countries. They featured three countries which were India, Thailand and China. I think Thailand had the second highest road fatality RATE in the world.

So, whoever is defending Thai driving, I suggest you get a clue. And if you're Thai, wake up and do something about a prevasive problem in your country. Think of all the innocent people who die needlessly on your roads. Sure it happens in developed countries, but on a much much smaller scale.

[gburns57au]

Of course you have to adjust numbers to reflect number of cars on the road. Comparing absolute numbers between countries is idiocy.

There was a cover story in Time about a year ago about the shockingly high road fatailty rate in Asian countries. They featured three countries which were India, Thailand and China. I think Thailand had the second highest road fatality RATE in the world.

So, whoever is defending Thai driving, I suggest you get a clue. And if you're Thai, wake up and do something about a prevasive problem in your country. Think of all the innocent people who die needlessly on your roads. Sure it happens in developed countries, but on a much much smaller scale.

I think there is a job for you.....President Roads Around Thailand......

[JXXXL]

I think there is a job for you.....President Roads Around Thailand......

Oh matey, I'm in stitches. Where's the middle digit emo?

Try losing your life a few time here while driving or riding a bike and you will understand the frustration.

Edited January 25, 2006 by JXXXL

[gburns57au]

I think there is a job for you.....President Roads Around Thailand......

Oh matey, I'm in stitches. Where's the middle digit emo?

Try losing your life a few time here while driving or riding a bike and you will understand the frustration.

I would think I could only lose it once but ok....

I dont see the frustration of Thais driving in Thailand....they have an understanding of the rules, it based on unwritten understanding...they have a cest la vie attitude to most things.

What I do see is the farang frustration of driving in Thailand .....because as usual farangs come to live in Thailand and expect them to behave as to what the farang expects from his experience in farangland.

You can adapt or burn...but dont expect the Thais to adapt to the farang ways....it is their country...

[JXXXL]

I would think I could only lose it once but ok....

I dont see the frustration of Thais driving in Thailand....they have an understanding of the rules, it based on unwritten understanding...they have a cest la vie attitude to most things.

What I do see is the farang frustration of driving in Thailand .....because as usual farangs come to live in Thailand and expect them to behave as to what the farang expects from his experience in farangland.

You can adapt or burn...but dont expect the Thais to adapt to the farang ways....it is their country...

Ah, the culturally sensitive tourist.

Try pitching that idea to a Thai mother weeping over her two dead daughters that just got creamed by a pick up driving recklessly. You think the Thai's like their countrymen behave on the roads? They just don't acknowledge the problem till they lose someone dear to them then they cry bloody murder. I've seen my fair share of dead bodies here in Thailand to understand the problem.

So join the debate if you have something to offer other than the typical weak excuse.

Edited January 25, 2006 by JXXXL

[zzap]

There are a few weak points in argumrnts comparing different countries.

I agree with gburns, I believe half the problem foreigners have about the driving here is attitude.

Yes, In the UK drivers are taught to look out for motorbikes and bicycles, but they generally don't.

Ask any cyclist how safe they feel in the road there!

I am one of the few (?)who feel more comfortable in Thailand (on a motorbike), I said it before: driving here requires flexibility, learn the unwritten rules rather than getting all worked up about all the "idiots" in the streets.

This is not to say I recommend an "anything goes" approach, there are some bad habits here which should be improved, but the solution is not to implement strictly enforced overreglementation as we have in some European countries.

Edited January 25, 2006 by zzap

[Moo Dohn]

Does that make any sense? You will still end up moving over to the slower lane anyway...

Why... some people may, some may not... there is no NEED to... but more importantly there is no LAW saying you have to ... Which is why I got pinched in the LOS.

[Jim 50]

eventually the word is going to get out about the "dangers of thailand" and tourist will stop coming here.

Already have.

Quality tourists are going elsewhere. Most of the remaining tourists are loyal sex tourists.

[jing jing]

eventually the word is going to get out about the "dangers of thailand" and tourist will stop coming here.

Already have.

Quality tourists are going elsewhere. Most of the remaining tourists are loyal sex tourists.

Nice. Well at least it's good to know the "dangers" have scared off the disloyal ones...

[Donno]

Actually with all the talk about Thai drivers, I feel quite comfortable drivng here being a former Taxi driver in Oz.

[visarunner]

A truly sad accident . Drive the road often n feel relative safe on the Chonburi Motorway, surface n all is OK .

You should avoid the Pattaya -BKK bound section of the Chonburi Bypass , this is a nightmare.

My thought are with the families of all victims .

Don't know the details , but meeting with the typical Van Hire Companies I always felt the driver's are rested enough n responsible , but not so sure about these Khao San bound old Cattlevan's .

Mainproblem is that roads around Chonburi are totally overloaded n in poor state .

[gburns57au]

Ah, the culturally sensitive tourist.

Try pitching that idea to a Thai mother weeping over her two dead daughters that just got creamed by a pick up driving recklessly. You think the Thai's like their countrymen behave on the roads? They just don't acknowledge the problem till they lose someone dear to them then they cry bloody murder. I've seen my fair share of dead bodies here in Thailand to understand the problem.

So join the debate if you have something to offer other than the typical weak excuse.

This thread started because 3 farangs were killed on a road that is oft travelled by many of us....all of a sudden people start blaming the driver and cry bloody murder about Thai driving practices...I dont see the same people jumping up and down about it when a Thai person gets killed. I too have seen dead bodies in Thailand and I have lost a few friends there due to road accidents.

But what do we have here, a load of farangs either resident or tourist comparing the Thai driving practices to their own countries driving practices....sure you see some amazing things and you see some absolutely idiotic things.....You dont see the same things in your country do you???

I guess in perfect farangland there are no drunk/drugged drivers, drivers who overload their vehicles, drivers near the point of exhaustion, drivers who drive worn out old heaps of junk etc etc.... Thailand may not be as perfect as Farangland...no point complaining about it....you just have to assimilate....as someone already said....a farang driving as they would in farangland is just as dangerous as a Thai Lunatic driver.

A typical weak excuse eh???.....some would call it a simple fact

[moonoi]

Ah, the culturally sensitive tourist.

Try pitching that idea to a Thai mother weeping over her two dead daughters that just got creamed by a pick up driving recklessly. You think the Thai's like their countrymen behave on the roads? They just don't acknowledge the problem till they lose someone dear to them then they cry bloody murder. I've seen my fair share of dead bodies here in Thailand to understand the problem.

So join the debate if you have something to offer other than the typical weak excuse.

This thread started because 3 farangs were killed on a road that is oft travelled by many of us....all of a sudden people start blaming the driver and cry bloody murder about Thai driving practices...I dont see the same people jumping up and down about it when a Thai person gets killed. I too have seen dead bodies in Thailand and I have lost a few friends there due to road accidents.

But what do we have here, a load of farangs either resident or tourist comparing the Thai driving practices to their own countries driving practices....sure you see some amazing things and you see some absolutely idiotic things.....You dont see the same things in your country do you???

I guess in perfect farangland there are no drunk/drugged drivers, drivers who overload their vehicles, drivers near the point of exhaustion, drivers who drive worn out old heaps of junk etc etc.... Thailand may not be as perfect as Farangland...no point complaining about it....you just have to assimilate....as someone already said....a farang driving as they would in farangland is just as dangerous as a Thai Lunatic driver.

A typical weak excuse eh???.....some would call it a simple fact

But your attitude is pretty bad. Ok I am a foreigner here, I don't expect the rules of the road to be the same here as at home and I don't think most expats living here do either. However dangerous / bad driving is dangerous / bad driving whether its here or back in your home land, whats wrong with commenting about this? The roads here are dangerous and much of it is down to poor enforcement of already existing road rules and inadequate driver training.

I agree that some things in rules and regulations have gone too far in western nations. The one thing that would go along way here to improving the safety on roads is situational awareness. Just looking around you, check before pulling across the road. And also a little more politeness, when I want to merge with traffic from one road to another.....shouldn't have to fit and slowly creep until the passing cars can no longer squeeze by. By letting out people that are trying to merge, you'll find the traffic flow actually improves and gridlocks are less likely to occur (although this also needs to go hand in hand with the MIB managing the traffic lights properly) studies have been done to prove this in several countries.

Also you'll find that a lot of Thai are not impressed with the quality of driving here. But its too difficult with the way things are setup here to do anything about it. It needs a powerful person with a strong political will to do it.........and the reason it doesn't happen? Well theres no financial gain to that person is there.......so why should they bother? This is not just my view, but the view of many of my Thai friends.

Of course you will always get drunk drivers (australia has a big problem with this), drugged up drivers and just plain reckless drivers in any country. But the reason at least in western nations that the death figures are low is because the vast majority of the motoring public have a healthy respect for the law and an inability to tip some "tea" money to the police to get off any road traffic violation.

A classic example today was a guy trying to pull straight into the lane I was in with out looking or indicating (if I knew he intended to change lane I would have made room). I had nowhere to go (if I hit the brakes the car behinds slams into me, and theres a car on my right preventing me moving over) so I just stayed put. Then when he eventually gets into my lane he then pulls across in the lane next to me and then swerves across pulls into the gap between me and the car in front and procedes to brake test me. Why? It proves nothing and ultimately could cause a big accident for no reason, clearly I hadn't delayed him because he was able to overtake me. Its just stupid, pointless, irresponsible and reckless driving. And it happens all the time here.

So please tell me gburns.......why does anyone including Thai and foreigner have to accept that the current state of things here is ok, just because its always been that way? Whats exactly is wrong with pointing out errors in the way people do things here (I don't profess that I'm a perfect driver btw) and trying to improve things? Surely if you've lost friends in accidents you would want to try to improve things so that other people don't meet the same end? Or maybe you think it gives you some kudos points with some Thai people? I don't know how you can defend the current state of driving standards here when a lot of Thai can't.

And as for this incident, if the driver was driving too fast and was tired then yes he does deserve blame for killing these people. As happens all to often. But ultimately, we'll probably never know the real cause.

[opothai]

i've driven in thailand,and been driven by decent bus drivers and lunatic bus drivers, about even in ratio, when driving i've come across good drivers and again lunatic drivers, maybe 70% good and 30% bad.

this is only what i have experienced myself,

as it only takes one idiot to cause an accident, compared to driving in the usa or england you would have to come to a conclusion that driving in thailand is definately more dangerous.

as people have commented earlier until road education is taken seriously, do not expect the accident rate to fall any time soon. and as thailand becomes more affluent and more cars join the inadequate roads, personally i expect the accident and fatality rate to grow.

[gburns57au]

So please tell me gburns.......why does anyone including Thai and foreigner have to accept that the current state of things here is ok, just because its always been that way? Whats exactly is wrong with pointing out errors in the way people do things here (I don't profess that I'm a perfect driver btw) and trying to improve things? Surely if you've lost friends in accidents you would want to try to improve things so that other people don't meet the same end? Or maybe you think it gives you some kudos points with some Thai people? I don't know how you can defend the current state of driving standards here when a lot of Thai can't.

And as for this incident, if the driver was driving too fast and was tired then yes he does deserve blame for killing these people. As happens all to often. But ultimately, we'll probably never know the real cause.

What I was saying was that it takes an accident killing farangs for everyone to jump up and start crying bloody murder about the Thais driving practices....yet many Thais are killed and no one says a word....

What is wrong with pointing out errors.....who is making the error??....the Thais for doing what they have been doing for years and that they understand....or the guy who has moved here and thinks that this is not like back home....every country has unwritten driving rules that others dont understand.....eg; if you came up behind a semi on a country road at night in Oz and he flicked his left indicator twice...what would that mean to you ??? would you understand his message...???

We have had reports that drunk driving is the major cause of accidents in Thailand....that has little to do with the skills or practices of drivers.....when someone is drunk and in charge of a motor vehicle, driving skills and practices go out of the window.....My Thai friends who have died were all the result of drink driving and not all of them were drunk when they were killed. BTW I found your kudos comment totally uncalled for.

And in this incident a lot of people immediately blamed the driver of the minivan....As we both have said, we will probably never know the real reason for this accident, 11o'clock in the morning...maybe he was hungover or didnt have enough sleep the night before....maybe the truck didnt have brakelights and braked suddenly...maybe his own brakes failed....maybe he was distracted by one of his passengers...we dont know but a lot of people were quick to blame him and that then led to a character assassination of all Thai drivers.

Just as a sideline....I watched the "Worlds Worst Drivers" on tele once and there was not a Thai amongst them.....

[BPayette]

i've driven in thailand,and been driven by decent bus drivers and lunatic bus drivers, about even in ratio, when driving i've come across good drivers and again lunatic drivers, maybe 70% good and 30% bad.

this is only what i have experienced myself,

as it only takes one idiot to cause an accident, compared to driving in the usa or england you would have to come to a conclusion that driving in thailand is definately more dangerous.

as people have commented earlier until road education is taken seriously, do not expect the accident rate to fall any time soon. and as thailand becomes more affluent and more cars join the inadequate roads, personally i expect the accident and fatality rate to grow.

I've been reading this thread for a couple of days now, and there are good arguements on both "sides". I had to comment here, though on the above quote about taking "road education" seriously. What road education?? There is none in Thailand! The behaviour of all the drivers here is freighting proof of that every day. The US drivers are no saints, by any means, but there has been driver eduction (mandatory to get a liscense), and public advertising campaigns on radio, TV, roadside billboards...everwhere, for decades. I'm sure there are similar education programes in other countries, but I haven't seen anything here. My Thai gf got her driver's liscense with virtually no knowledge of how to drive, it's a joke. On top of all the ego motivated behaviour that the local drivers show is just plain ignorance of how to driive, basic awareness of the true dangers of operating a heavy vehicle at high speeds. There is ignorance of the simple laws of physics of a 30 ton truck traveling at 100 km/hr trying to stop in time to avoid hitting the 1 ton car that just pulled in front of it without looking. The US driver's education system teaches these things, shows reaction time to putting on the brakes, and how much distance is traveled as a function of speed, and braking time as a function of speed...ete etc. As I observe the behaviour of the drivers here, I can see this ignorance. The total oblivion most drivers here exhibit about what is going on around them, the total lack of planning ahead for a turn, looking in rear view mirrors every once in a while, using LIGHTS AT NIGHT, etc etc. These are just basic common sense things that you would think most people know, but it isn't the case here. Perhaps a significant increase in true "road education", in all forms, starting with the youner ones, would help.

My 2 satang's worth..

[Plus]

People DO these things here when they deem necessary, and they drive as they please when there's no percieved danger involved. Sometimes they get it wrong, most often not. Every morning I pull out of the soi into the major road, along with thousands of others, and not even once I saw anyone not looking for approaching ten wheelers, and we have lots of them passing.

If people drive in familiar places they know when it's realtively safe to drive fast in the left lane, and when it's time to cut back in because they know where major sois are, or where van drop offs are, or where cars are usually parked overnight. It might seem mad at first, but there's a pattern, unspoken rules. It makes the traffic predictable and flowing, even if some legal rules are broken.

There are over 30 mil cars in UK, I guess less than 10 mil in Thailand, that makes 4 Thais per 1 Brit killed on the roads, not counting motorcycles. Stats might look little better for Thais if we count only Bangkok drivers, or if we count only accidents not involving alcohol. Of course Thai roads more dangerous, but if we want to compare overall driving skills that should be a reasonable criterion - sober Thai drivers vs. sober Uk drivers, and once you leave Bangkok it's a nightmare, so I'd prefer Bangkok only statistics.

German autobans are still the safest roads on the planet, yet it's not uncommon to see mad MB drivers flying at 200 km/h. Scares shit out of foreigners.

Another thing - we take corruption for granted as a part of Thai life, why get so worked up over their driving? Just accept it and try to adjust - it will make your life a lot easier.

[Fist]

We can assume anything and be quick to judge when we read about such tragedies. What we should not forget is Thailand is still in many ways a 3rd world country where many people struggle to survive on a dailly basis.

Was this Suthep Chiangklang first trip within 24 hours or was it his 5th ?who knows. Was the guy, like many unfortuante Thais working on 2 or even 3 jobs to keep his own family? or was he another Thai suffering from the effect of too much drink the previous night at the wheel.

It's not easy being Thai and we foreigners should never forget that

Truth is most of us have no idea what it's like being Thai and are too ###### quick to judge.

My condolonces to the family and friends of all concerned'

[Cassandra]

Of course you have to adjust numbers to reflect number of cars on the road. Comparing absolute numbers between countries is idiocy.

There was a cover story in Time about a year ago about the shockingly high road fatailty rate in Asian countries. They featured three countries which were India, Thailand and China. I think Thailand had the second highest road fatality RATE in the world.

So, whoever is defending Thai driving, I suggest you get a clue. And if you're Thai, wake up and do something about a prevasive problem in your country. Think of all the innocent people who die needlessly on your roads. Sure it happens in developed countries, but on a much much smaller scale.

I think there is a job for you.....President Roads Around Thailand......

What a ridiculouus comment.JXXl made a very fair point about driving standards which many Thais would support, and you call him a prat.I have been driving all over Thailand for over 20 years and fully agree with JXXL.I have seen countless lives uneccessarily ruined.My Thai friends have often made the point that improvement in driving standards is the biggest single challenge the country faces, along with reform of the police force.

What is it with these farangs that constantly look for excuses to support the unacceptable.They think in their dozy way that they are showing their admiration for Thai ways.Actually they are showing their contempt because their position implies Thais don't agonise about the slaughter on their roads, or care about the mayhem poor driving causes.These farang dimwits seem to think Thailand is some kind of Disneyland to entertain them and their braindead friends, not a real country with real people and real worries and concerns.

[gburns57au]

What a ridiculouus comment.JXXl made a very fair point about driving standards which many Thais would support, and you call him a prat.I have been driving all over Thailand for over 20 years and fully agree with JXXL.I have seen countless lives uneccessarily ruined.My Thai friends have often made the point that improvement in driving standards is the biggest single challenge the country faces, along with reform of the police force.

What is it with these farangs that constantly look for excuses to support the unacceptable.They think in their dozy way that they are showing their admiration for Thai ways.Actually they are showing their contempt because their position implies Thais don't agonise about the slaughter on their roads, or care about the mayhem poor driving causes.These farang dimwits seem to think Thailand is some kind of Disneyland to entertain them and their braindead friends, not a real country with real people and real worries and concerns.

You obviously didnt read any of my further comments...

I could argue that I never called him a Prat at all, but I guess that would be lost on you too

[NamKAheng]

Which is why I always use the train [yes, there is one] from Hualampong Station to Pattaya and return

Almost 5 hours by train to go to Pattaya is a bit long.