Urgent Help: Advise On Child Custody, Aus Man Thai Woman

[tpop]

her family are all well off middle class people - not Thai villagers

Not wishing to be confrontational but ......

First, if her family are all well off middle class, what was she doing sleeping with an old working class Aussie twice her age?

Second, Do you believe the schooling and health-care the kid would get anywhere in Thailand, would be better than that in Australia.

To your first question i do not yet know the answer - but i know one of her sisters who is somewhat older and who's husband was killed some years ago. She is independent and free spirited with her own business and a child in a good school. But she got lonely and after consulting with friends and relatives she sought a partner through an on-line dating service. So far (2 years) and no great success but her chances are better with a Farang than a Thai - simply because there are more Farangs looking for Thai women of her age than there are Thai men

Your second question sorry but shouts incredible ignorance of Thailand. I have lived there over many years.

5 years ago while cutting grass on one of our family farms i sliced my hand open. I was taken to the local hospital. From the time i stepped on the hospital steps until i came out again was 30 minutes. My hand stitched, tetanus booster, various medications and all for a cost of AU$13. I have no scar the job was so well done.

Let's see you get that sort of service here in Australia. Yes i have had other occasions when the lack of experience by attending hospital doctors has led to a misdiagnosis but as my son (who is a doctor here) tells me that's the same everywhere in the world.

As for education - we have Thai kids in high school here in Australia - we have still not decided which is the better place for them to get a degree - we do note that when they came here at ages 10 and 11 from yes a country school system that they fell back more than a year in syllabus even though they were in the same year - particularly in math which they were at least 2 years ahead of their peers here.

Education and Medical is free in Thailand for Thai citizens though there is a huge variety in standards and money gets you the best as always everywhere

My wife's brother is a pharmacist, another brother is a senior army officer, another runs a substantial farm - there are also police, businessmen, nurses, teachers in the family

i've studied all over the world and worked in many countries - i'd not be so quick to assume that Australia is superior to Thailand - my wife does not think it is now that she has seen both the good and the bad - especially the racism and the way people talk down to Thai people like they are white raj masters.

What do you think - is the child better off here with an old man who kicks his mother out because he's scared if he commits to her she will end up with half his financially underwater gold coast condo - or in Thailand amidst a substantial extended family in a country where if he aims high he can achieve?

To just what extent can you conceive of this man committing to the substantial cost in time, money and emotion that raising a child demands? I have raised 2 families and i know what it takes - he is starting at 60? to raise a boy that he can use as a financial survival guarantee.

If you think he has only the best interests of the child at heart then both of you are suffering from one or more of the many categorised forms of self delusion.

p

p

[Mario2008]

Some people seem to think that every Thai woman is a sex worker.

1 post and a reply to it deleted.

[David48]

Pops ... great the way you have taken the time to answer each reply.

Have you considered asking the Embassy in the first instance (without divulging names) about further Visa options?

I've read back through all the posts yet I read that your wife and the mother of the child are related, but did not read what relationship they are?

Usually a 'bridging Visa' is just that .. a 'bridge' between one Visa and the next Visa being applied for.

Has the mother unsuccessfully applied for the next Visa and been declined and the bridging Visa finishing in 5 days?

Personally I wish you and your wife the best of luck negotiating the various issues mentioned and please come back and report here the various outcomes as they arise so that we can be better informed.

[Will27]

Does the mother speak English & has the child resided with her in Thailand? The Thai mother can go to Legal Aid, ideally with with an Australian citizen (if mother doesn't speak English they can arrange for a translator). Legal Aid should be able to make an emergency application to the Family Court on her behalf and I believe can liaise with Immigration, if not Legal Aid can do so to extend the tourist visa until custody can be resolved. Naturally she needs funds to support herself whilst in Australia as will not have access to Centrelink support. I had a Thai friend in a similar situation, but admittedly she had a finance visa and partner refused to marry. With assistance from Legal Aid took her about 18 months to finally win the case for child custody and obtain Australian Permanent Residency.

Legal Aid Gold Coast

2/18 Bay Street

Southport 4215

tel: (07) 5532 9611

I'm not sure whether or not she will be eligible for LA so will not comment too much on that or the custody battle.

As for the visa issue, I have highlighted the above. For a start, she is on a Bridging (I assume E) visa not a tourist visa.

Legal Aid cannot have the BVE extended at all. They MAY give her a letter saying there is court proceedings in place. It

is then up to DIAC to see if they will grant another BVE.

Secondly, the friend you referred to was not in a simliar situation. Your friend was on a fiance/spouse visa which it TOTALLY

different to being a tourist visa. She will not get permanent residence from this situation. She will have to leave the country eventually.

In the situation advised by the OP, IMHO, the best bet would be to depart from Australia with the child.

Regards

Will

[Will27]

thanks everyone - i'm off to discuss

simple:

"Note: No disrespect, but do not get other Thais involved (except for your wife) at this stage as they will totally confuse the lady with uninformed advice"

aint that de truth

"Just remembered, my friend did receive funding from Centrelink as the child was an Australian citizen. The Family Court case was centered on what was best for the child as an Australian citizen"

yes so i am assuming too although the timing is a worry as unless the right action is taken she will be forced to leave in 6 days or break the law with potential repercussions on future ability to return

but for now money is not such an issue - our family is happy to provide whatever money is required to bring this to the best results

but what is the best result?

1. she leaves and takes the child and then tries to make a go in Thailand

2. she overstays illegally and tries to solve it in interim

3. we find the right legal help so that she does not have to leave so suddenly and has time to sort this out

4. she just gives in and goes back alone

p

Firstly, do not attempt to depart Australia with the child as the guy may have contacted the police to put a stop on the child's departure using custody dispute. Unless you know for a fact he has not. BTW a stop on Immigration database will only take an hour or so to process from receipt of police notification.

but what is the best result?

1. she leaves and takes the child and then tries to make a go in Thailand - Mothers choice in the best interest of the child

2. she overstays illegally and tries to solve it in interim - Do not overstay illegally. She should be able to get another Bridging visa. Under Australian law her male partner cannot “force” her to leave, nor have any influence on extension of any existing visa when a child is involved. This is a common misunderstanding.

3. we find the right legal help so that she does not have to leave so suddenly and has time to sort this out - Yes

4. she just gives in and goes back alone - Mothers choice, depends if she has the emotional strength to see things through as matters could turn very nasty in the Family Court. She will need good emotional support & inner strength to remain in Australia

From what I can gather from the OP's postings, the mother has been living in Thailand with the child anyway,

and coming to Australia on tourist visa's to be with the father. If this is the case, I think she would be better

off returning to Thailand and any money would be better spent lodging an application with the Child Support Agency

for ongoing maintenance.

As for the father putting "a stop" on the child's departure. This is not a 5 minute procedure. The father would have to

get a court order which then would be passed on to the Australian Federal Police who would then pass on to Australian

Customs to get the order in place.

IMHO, this would seem at least at this stage, an unlikely action.

If she can get the child and try and depart, worse case scenerio (if the order is in place) would be not to depart without the child.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure a "stay order" is not in place.

Regards

Will

[Will27]

Pops ... great the way you have taken the time to answer each reply.

Have you considered asking the Embassy in the first instance (without divulging names) about further Visa options?

I've read back through all the posts yet I read that your wife and the mother of the child are related, but did not read what relationship they are?

Usually a 'bridging Visa' is just that .. a 'bridge' between one Visa and the next Visa being applied for.

Has the mother unsuccessfully applied for the next Visa and been declined and the bridging Visa finishing in 5 days?

Personally I wish you and your wife the best of luck negotiating the various issues mentioned and please come back and report here the various outcomes as they arise so that we can be better informed.

Hi David48

In this situation, DIAC, would be reluctant to give much advise other than to say she should

contact a Migration Agent which in this case would be a waste of time and money.

The OP hasn't given a lot of details about the person in questions visa status. Only that she became a

UNC (unlawful non-citizen).

I'm making this assumption and the OP can correct me if I'm wrong. The father had the child and mum

didn't want to leave Oz without the child which is understandable. The father then advised DIAC the she was

a UNC. DIAC then granted a BVE on the conditions that she show a ticket for departure.

There's a few variable such as how long she has been unlawful for etc, but I'm pretty sure that her only

reasonable visa options are limited to bridging visa extensions.

Regards

Will

Edited August 23, 2012 by Will27

[tpop]

Does the mother speak English & has the child resided with her in Thailand? The Thai mother can go to Legal Aid, ideally with with an Australian citizen (if mother doesn't speak English they can arrange for a translator). Legal Aid should be able to make an emergency application to the Family Court on her behalf and I believe can liaise with Immigration, if not Legal Aid can do so to extend the tourist visa until custody can be resolved. Naturally she needs funds to support herself whilst in Australia as will not have access to Centrelink support. I had a Thai friend in a similar situation, but admittedly she had a finance visa and partner refused to marry. With assistance from Legal Aid took her about 18 months to finally win the case for child custody and obtain Australian Permanent Residency.

Legal Aid Gold Coast

2/18 Bay Street

Southport 4215

tel: (07) 5532 9611

I'm not sure whether or not she will be eligible for LA so will not comment too much on that or the custody battle.

As for the visa issue, I have highlighted the above. For a start, she is on a Bridging (I assume E) visa not a tourist visa.

Legal Aid cannot have the BVE extended at all. They MAY give her a letter saying there is court proceedings in place. It

is then up to DIAC to see if they will grant another BVE.

Secondly, the friend you referred to was not in a simliar situation. Your friend was on a fiance/spouse visa which it TOTALLY

different to being a tourist visa. She will not get permanent residence from this situation. She will have to leave the country eventually.

In the situation advised by the OP, IMHO, the best bet would be to depart from Australia with the child.

Regards

Will

Thanks will

your guesses are quite shrewd - and accurate

have been on the phone a lot today to various government and other organisations and i am in agreement with your appraisal

it is really up to the mother to make her choice - and then deal with it - we will support her whichever way she decides

p

[tpop]

thanks everyone - i'm off to discuss

simple:

"Note: No disrespect, but do not get other Thais involved (except for your wife) at this stage as they will totally confuse the lady with uninformed advice"

aint that de truth

"Just remembered, my friend did receive funding from Centrelink as the child was an Australian citizen. The Family Court case was centered on what was best for the child as an Australian citizen"

yes so i am assuming too although the timing is a worry as unless the right action is taken she will be forced to leave in 6 days or break the law with potential repercussions on future ability to return

but for now money is not such an issue - our family is happy to provide whatever money is required to bring this to the best results

but what is the best result?

1. she leaves and takes the child and then tries to make a go in Thailand

2. she overstays illegally and tries to solve it in interim

3. we find the right legal help so that she does not have to leave so suddenly and has time to sort this out

4. she just gives in and goes back alone

p

Firstly, do not attempt to depart Australia with the child as the guy may have contacted the police to put a stop on the child's departure using custody dispute. Unless you know for a fact he has not. BTW a stop on Immigration database will only take an hour or so to process from receipt of police notification.

but what is the best result?

1. she leaves and takes the child and then tries to make a go in Thailand - Mothers choice in the best interest of the child

2. she overstays illegally and tries to solve it in interim - Do not overstay illegally. She should be able to get another Bridging visa. Under Australian law her male partner cannot “force” her to leave, nor have any influence on extension of any existing visa when a child is involved. This is a common misunderstanding.

3. we find the right legal help so that she does not have to leave so suddenly and has time to sort this out - Yes

4. she just gives in and goes back alone - Mothers choice, depends if she has the emotional strength to see things through as matters could turn very nasty in the Family Court. She will need good emotional support & inner strength to remain in Australia

From what I can gather from the OP's postings, the mother has been living in Thailand with the child anyway,

and coming to Australia on tourist visa's to be with the father. If this is the case, I think she would be better

off returning to Thailand and any money would be better spent lodging an application with the Child Support Agency

for ongoing maintenance.

As for the father putting "a stop" on the child's departure. This is not a 5 minute procedure. The father would have to

get a court order which then would be passed on to the Australian Federal Police who would then pass on to Australian

Customs to get the order in place.

IMHO, this would seem at least at this stage, an unlikely action.

If she can get the child and try and depart, worse case scenerio (if the order is in place) would be not to depart without the child.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure a "stay order" is not in place.

Regards

Will

The child is not likely to be on the airport watch list i agree and i have initiated the procedures required to check though timing of such action is no guarantee

The woman has never seen any court order as is required under normal practice by the court but that is also no guarantee as there are facilities for urgent lodgement

p

[tpop]

Pops ... great the way you have taken the time to answer each reply.

Have you considered asking the Embassy in the first instance (without divulging names) about further Visa options?

I've read back through all the posts yet I read that your wife and the mother of the child are related, but did not read what relationship they are?

Usually a 'bridging Visa' is just that .. a 'bridge' between one Visa and the next Visa being applied for.

Has the mother unsuccessfully applied for the next Visa and been declined and the bridging Visa finishing in 5 days?

Personally I wish you and your wife the best of luck negotiating the various issues mentioned and please come back and report here the various outcomes as they arise so that we can be better informed.

Hi David48

In this situation, DIAC, would be reluctant to give much advise other than to say she should

contact a Migration Agent which in this case would be a waste of time and money.

The OP hasn't given a lot of details about the person in questions visa status. Only that she became a

UNC (unlawful non-citizen).

I'm making this assumption and the OP can correct me if I'm wrong. The father had the child and mum

didn't want to leave Oz without the child which is understandable. The father then advised DIAC the she was

a UNC. DIAC then granted a BVE on the conditions that she show a ticket for departure.

There's a few variable such as how long she has been unlawful for etc, but I'm pretty sure that her only

reasonable visa options are limited to bridging visa extensions.

Regards

Will

i say again - you are either quite experienced or very shrewd or both

you have identified all of the issues accurately as far as i can ascertain so far

we have further meetings and phone conferences today

the ability to get her visa extended is being investigated

p

[simple1]

Child Support Agency - there is no reciprocal arrangement with Thailand and as the mother only has minimal command of spoken English & doesn't read/write English probably pushing the proverbial uphill. However, the OP can access the content for review at

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/child-support/child-support-for-parents-or-children-living-outside-australia

Re stop at airport; I personally know of a case where this was put in place in a matter of hours by the Australian father even though Family Court custody arrangements had yet to be determined

[Will27]

Child Support Agency - there is no reciprocal arrangement with Thailand and as the mother only has minimal command of spoken English & doesn't read/write English probably pushing the proverbial uphill. However, the OP can access the content for review at

http://www.humanserv...tside-australia

Re stop at airport; I personally know of a case where this was put in place in a matter of hours by the Australian father even though Family Court custody arrangements had yet to be determined

I didn't say getting a stay order was impossible, only that with the in information provided by the OP, it was unlikely in my opinion.

Regards

Will

[simple1]

OP: Given you will be under pressure & to save you some time you may wish to access the following sites re Migration agents:

DIAC content on using Migration Agents

http://www.immi.gov....australia.htm#a

Migration Agent list of fees

https://www.mara.gov...t-/default.aspx

Best wishes for all your efforts & if you don't mind let us know the outcome of your efforts

Edited August 23, 2012 by simple1

[Will27]

Pops ... great the way you have taken the time to answer each reply.

Have you considered asking the Embassy in the first instance (without divulging names) about further Visa options?

I've read back through all the posts yet I read that your wife and the mother of the child are related, but did not read what relationship they are?

Usually a 'bridging Visa' is just that .. a 'bridge' between one Visa and the next Visa being applied for.

Has the mother unsuccessfully applied for the next Visa and been declined and the bridging Visa finishing in 5 days?

Personally I wish you and your wife the best of luck negotiating the various issues mentioned and please come back and report here the various outcomes as they arise so that we can be better informed.

Hi David48

In this situation, DIAC, would be reluctant to give much advise other than to say she should

contact a Migration Agent which in this case would be a waste of time and money.

The OP hasn't given a lot of details about the person in questions visa status. Only that she became a

UNC (unlawful non-citizen).

I'm making this assumption and the OP can correct me if I'm wrong. The father had the child and mum

didn't want to leave Oz without the child which is understandable. The father then advised DIAC the she was

a UNC. DIAC then granted a BVE on the conditions that she show a ticket for departure.

There's a few variable such as how long she has been unlawful for etc, but I'm pretty sure that her only

reasonable visa options are limited to bridging visa extensions.

Regards

Will

i say again - you are either quite experienced or very shrewd or both

you have identified all of the issues accurately as far as i can ascertain so far

we have further meetings and phone conferences today

the ability to get her visa extended is being investigated

p

In this situation, one would assume DIAC would be reasonably flexible in

issuing another BVE, but only up to a point.

They would need to see "some light at the end of the tunnel" one expects.

IMO, if the mother could tell the father that she wants to spend a day with

the child before she departs, and then gets him a ticket and go ASAP would be

the best outcome for her.

In this situation, the OP would be unwise to spend further money on a Migration Agent.

He is already out of pocket for 1 airline ticket, possibly another plus other expenses already

provided for.

Regards

Will

Edited August 23, 2012 by Will27

[tpop]

update

Mother and Child left today

basics - 2 Brothers turned up with a new Thai passport for the child in the child's Thai name

one brother left with the child while on the same flight the mother followed with a new ticket

the other brother has stayed to spend some quality time with the father

i guess he underestimated the family

p

[bdenner]

Well done, common sense prevailed and a good reward for your and her families efforts.

[tpop]

Mind your own business.

Not your family, not your child.

As far as I can see, the child will be better off educated in Australia, than in a Thai village school.

The Australian courts will sort it out.

i'd like to tell you what one of her brothers told me - he's a business man who runs a substantial company that imports from Japan, Australia and other countries and resells in Thailand

he said that with the internet everything about education has changed - that you can learn any subject you wish to learn on line and in any language

i though about it and i tend to agree

most of us think of education the way we grew up

but it's different now

the last time we were in Thailand i met a bunch of high school girls who came to visit and they all spoke flawless English

i was pretty taken aback because over the last 20 years or so i'd not meet many school kids outside of international schools who could speak English well

they had all gained their diction and vocab on-line - through youtube etc

the world is changing very rapidly

people who have access to the internet are equals no matter where they live

the only advantage an "Australian" has over Thai people is that we have a tiny population in a huge land of resources

and lots of that money flows through to the welfare system which supports a lot of people who might achieve more if it was not there

but taking the easy path seems to be the way of many

and who's to say they are wrong eh?

p

[David48]

the other brother has stayed to spend some quality time with the father

Would you care to expand on that statement ... or is the implication close to the reality?

[Will27]

Nice result, well done.

And for those who advised NOT to try and depart with the child,

nuff said.

Regards

Will

[simple1]

Nice result, well done.

And for those who advised NOT to try and depart with the child,

nuff said.

Regards

Will

In the OP's case it would appear that a compromise solution was worked out with the father.

Edited August 25, 2012 by simple1

[TommoPhysicist]

Nice result, well done.

And for those who advised NOT to try and depart with the child,

nuff said.

Regards

Will

Yes congratulations on helping a Thai girl abduct the child of an Australian man.

You should all feel very proud of yourselves ...... and when someone abducts your children .... no sympathy.

[Will27]

Nice result, well done.

And for those who advised NOT to try and depart with the child,

nuff said.

Regards

Will

In the OP's case it would appear that a compromise solution was worked out with the father.

That's not the way I read it. Why then turn up with a Thai passport and have the child leave

with the brother?

Maybe some more clarification is needed by OP.

Regards

Will

Edited August 25, 2012 by Will27

[Will27]

Nice result, well done.

And for those who advised NOT to try and depart with the child,

nuff said.

Regards

Will

Yes congratulations on helping a Thai girl abduct the child of an Australian man.

You should all feel very proud of yourselves ...... and when someone abducts your children .... no sympathy.

Sometimes you have to take the blinkers off mate.

Yes, she's the child of an Australian, but also the child of a Thai.

From what I can gather, they're not married and mum has been bringing up

the child in Thailand.

Where's the abduction?

Regards

Will

[tpop]

Nice result, well done.

And for those who advised NOT to try and depart with the child,

nuff said.

Regards

Will

Yes congratulations on helping a Thai girl abduct the child of an Australian man.

You should all feel very proud of yourselves ...... and when someone abducts your children .... no sympathy.

Thai child, born in Thailand, lived most of its life in Thailand - Mother lured here on false pretenses then manipulated to be forced to leave without the child. I guess you think that's a legitimate way to obtain a child support income.

Yes i do think congratulations are in order but as it turns out we had nothing to do with it so all credit goes to the brothers.

p

[tpop]

the other brother has stayed to spend some quality time with the father

Would you care to expand on that statement ... or is the implication close to the reality?

actually, apparently, he turned up at the apartment with whiskey and beer and spent some hours getting drunk with the guy and explaining where everyone stood. He's been told that if he takes the right steps and applies for a spouse visa and spends some time making amends for his behavior there is still hope. As well he has been told he is welcome to visit child and mother in Thailand anytime though i assume he would be well chaperoned. The family will seek to prevent the child from being able to be taken out of Thailand without the mother's consent.

They were way more gentle with him than others might be.

p

[simple1]

deleted - answered by OP in post #54

Edited August 25, 2012 by simple1

[tpop]

Nice result, well done.

And for those who advised NOT to try and depart with the child,

nuff said.

Regards

Will

In the OP's case it would appear that a compromise solution was worked out with the father.

No, the father was not aware of the plans until one of her brothers turned up at his apartment.

p

[tpop]

OP: Do you mind clarifying if the brothers negotiated with the father so the child could return to Thailand without any border control problems?

No, they did not negotiate with him. They simply took mother and child and departed. He was at work, had left the child at a day care - the mother picked him up from the day care center. One of the mother's friends had followed the father previously when he had dropped of the boy at the center - mother had not been party to the arrangements and the school had been told the mother was in Thailand. I wonder how they negotiated there way through that but seems they had little problems but seeing a child with its mother would be enough for most people. Maybe they will cop flack from the father i do not know.

p

[tpop]

Nice result, well done.

And for those who advised NOT to try and depart with the child,

nuff said.

Regards

Will

In the OP's case it would appear that a compromise solution was worked out with the father.

That's not the way I read it. Why then turn up with a Thai passport and have the child leave

with the brother?

Maybe some more clarification is needed by OP.

Regards

Will

correct, they by-passed any attempt to deal with the father until afterwards

look, he has had plenty of opportunity to do the decent thing but chose at every point to be a cad

i do not know how she feels about him other than a lot of anger about how she has been treated recently

maybe there's a future for "them"

The child is still an Australian citizen - he can choose to return when he is older - or maybe she can try and obtain longer term visas

who is to say

for now everyone is safe - the man can spend some time ruminating on his behavior - maybe he has a conscience or maybe not

maybe he will try to make amends and maybe not

maybe he will kick up a stink and maybe not

who is to say

p

[Will27]

OP: Do you mind clarifying if the brothers negotiated with the father so the child could return to Thailand without any border control problems?

No, they did not negotiate with him. They simply took mother and child and departed. He was at work, had left the child at a day care - the mother picked him up from the day care center. One of the mother's friends had followed the father previously when he had dropped of the boy at the center - mother had not been party to the arrangements and the school had been told the mother was in Thailand. I wonder how they negotiated there way through that but seems they had little problems but seeing a child with its mother would be enough for most people. Maybe they will cop flack from the father i do not know.

p

To be honest, there's nothing really to negotiate. As previously stated, unless a "stay order"

was in place, there was never going to be a problem.

If DIAC were inclined to check, and why would they, they would just see that mother and child

arrived together and are departing together, albeit on a different passport.

Good outcome methinks.

Regards

Will

[crazykopite]

The world is full of nasty fookers and it appears there are a couple on this forum > The OP has asked for help and advice if you cannot do either then get the <deleted> off the subject !!!!!!!!!!!!!!