Thailand Grapples With Killer Student Gangs

[Tchooptip]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

It happens the world over TB67. Nothing new in it. You can say this about youth gangs in any country in the world. I would say myself they are less of a problem in Thailand than many other areas of the world.

[MahaYellow]

Thankfully mass shootings like the rampages of Anders Breivik,

Nidal Hasan and Seung-Hui Cho, (to name just three) in the

West are a rarity here in Thailand.

Thailand is still a relatively safe place.

[Whidbeyboy]

Farang Talk, I don't think prison is the answer. I remember back about 30 - 40 years ago in the US, a lot of these problems were solved by sending a bunch of these same kind of young kids into the military. It gave them discipline and even taught them a trade. I think it would be worth the effort to look at that for these so called gangs. just saying..

The only trade I learned in the military was how to kill, so not always the answer. But the military can instill respect for your fellow soldiers, maybe not your enemies. Jail rarely helps either, but it's purpose is to protect the public and punish, not reform.

If pride in their school is such a big deal (they really need to get a life), then why are they allowed to stay in school after such an incident. No school, no reason to fight?

[McMagus]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

Is that the most visible aspect of your intelligence? I'm not sure.

[Whidbeyboy]

Those 'students' are scared little cowards.

Prison time rather than boot camps would be the best and most effective way to deal with them.

You couldn't be more wrong about that! It's well known that jailbirds make new acquaintances and connections in prison. Also, prisons don't rehabilitate, they just punish. For a young gang member having been in prison is like a badge of honor. Boot camps are they way to go. Put enemies together and make them realize that they're people just like anyone else. Even though it might not work for everyone, it will definitely get some of them to think as the article stated. By the way, boot camps are no joke. They drill you hard there.

They drill you hard there? Sounds more like showers at the prision.

[gaucho]

"Deadly rivalries between student gangs have seen several teenagers gunned down in Bangkok since the start of the school year in May, leaving the kingdom's authorities scrambling for answers to a decades-old violent tradition"

They know the answer. We all know the answer. Stop allowing people to escape justice through paying bribes. Simple. Might take a year or two, but getting a 200 baht fine for stabbing someone in the head is just encouraging them to continue. Secondly, for juveniles, start harrassing the parents; fine them, have a judge order them to sort their kids out and failure to do so is contempt of court. Loads they could do but it would require an un corrupt judiciary and police, and a police that police.

I doubt these guys can really afford bribes, and the prison system is already filled with those who similarly could not. It is the rich and wealthy who are the real cowards, hiding behind walls of wealth and connection.

The key word above, the word that is really at the heart of the problem, is “hierarchy”. These children see no future; they are at the bottom of the pile. Left to rot their by a corrupt system whose only use for them is to work as labourers in factories making their fat rich bosses even fatter and richer.

While one should never excuse the despicable acts of an individual, we certainly need to look at the system that is guilty of creating them.

Oh pleez. More bleeding heart feel good lefty crap. You being born into a family without money does not give you a license to go be a menace to society and then blame the system. Whats your suggestion anyway? Reverting to communism? With your obvious hatred of anyone who has money sounds like you think thats a fine idea. People need to take responsibility for thier own actions. Blaming society will do nothing but create a soceity of entititlement and victimhood.

good comments ...jails these days they live better than pensioners in a lot of countries look at that thing recently 21 years for 70 murders ...all the do gooders r stuffing the rest of us up...the uk is fxxxed so is aussie

[dcutman]

I read nearly every post here, I did not see any mention of parents, or parenting, or the lack thereof.

It has almost been 10 years since my first visit to LOS. The thing that really sticks in my mind on my first day in BKK was the absence of graffiti. Now it is every where.

I also remember, not being able to find a internet cafe easily.. Forget about wireless hotspot.

My point is parents are no longer parenting, the video games are taking over these young minds, and this is the result. Happening world over and gonna get much worse.

[wooly]

I agree with many of the other posters regarding the amount of 'claptrap' that is being written about how to deal with this escalating problem. Frankly, IMHO, locking-them-up won't solve it. I honestly believe that the root cause of many of the 'problems' in this country stem from the ingrained cultural obsession about loss-of-face - and because of its complexity I really do not think it will ever be possible to change that attitude. Which I think is very sad, but a fact.

As has been said many times before "will the last foreigner to leave please switch off the light. Oh it's ok they are doing it themselves."

[laislica]

Has anyone seen some of the Thai soap on the TV?

To me, it seems like a training manual in violence.

Get rid of most of the worst stuff and replace it with something more worthwhile.

Thai children start watching it with their parents when they are tiny and it becomes the norm for them.

[hellodolly]

They are just students for crying out loud.

When they picked up grenades, knives and guns they became criminals.

You want to send them to prison where they can learn how to do real big time crime. Hone their killing skills and receive nothing in learning how to live in a peaceful law abiding society.

In Thai prison? Again, this ain't Kansas Dorothy.

Do you even know the difference between here and Kansas or is that some thing you took out of context in a Movie?

I don't know what Kansas has to do with it they have a recidivism rate of 85%. I don't know Thailand's rate but I would be willing to bet it is close. Besides that did you know that in Kansas they don't send kids to prisons full of murderers, killers and swindlers of all kinds.

I see where you are fairly new here and already have every thing figured out. You are bound to be a big asset to Thailand with all your knowledge and insight.

[sunshine51]

My answer would be put them in the army down South for two years show them what real fighting is about, there would be no strutting around acting hard when any minute you can be blown away.

Ableguy...This is a decent idea. Mind you that face thing also applies in the

military but at least there's a different vent for the anger...and then there's

always Sarge.....he'll get em on the right track. This happened back in

the US during the Vietnam conflict...judge would tell the offender...

"Marines or 10 years".

[poohy]

(quote) ....Five years. I speak American English like most of the English speaking world does.

Oh dear another American who thinks they can speak English!

[SABloke]

TB67

"The UK also allows in every third world dirtbag and Islamic radical who shows up at its border. They can blame the bleeding heart leftys for their problems."

"Five years. I speak American English like most of the English speaking world does."

Do you have any evidence to support your above comments? Or are they simply unsubstantiated and based on your naiive realism?

This problem is considerable worse in many countries than Thailand.

You claim its worse elsewhere, do YOU have any evidence to support your claims? Thailand is one of the most dangerous countries in the world as far as risk of murder is concerned, so I'm curious to hear about all these other countries so much worse where you have gangs of thugs from actual colleges going around murdering each other for school pride.

Actually Thailand ranks 104th for murder at 4.8 / 100 000 per annum (Just by the way America is 110th at 4.2 / 100 000 per annum )

EDIT: Annum = 1 year , thought I'd save you a trip to the dictionary

Edited September 4, 2012 by SABloke

[DocN]

Farang Talk, I don't think prison is the answer. I remember back about 30 - 40 years ago in the US, a lot of these problems were solved by sending a bunch of these same kind of young kids into the military. It gave them discipline and even taught them a trade. I think it would be worth the effort to look at that for these so called gangs. just saying..

Thats not feel good lefty enough for the Europeans on board.

Please accept my apologies. I'm a European but I don't appear to be sticking to your rules. I'll correct that right away for you.

I just wonder where you are from.

I'm from the US, but I wasn't aware of any rules. I was referring to the typical hatred for the military, rich people, Jews and American government we constantly hear from condescending European leftists these days.

If I didn't know, that i would certainly get banned for what I have to say to you, "sir"...wow...you could learn some new curses and slangwords now.

[DocN]

In Germany we called the camps these guys need "Arbeitslager"! (work camp)

I would make them work 12 hours a day or die like a soydog in the street these dirty bastards!

Yeah...and the rest of the world also called them "concentration- camps" and "working" was just the nicer part of the deal!

If you are from Germany, you should know, that this comparisson was a bad one!

[kblaze]

good God man.

Well T-Bird67 we have some things in common ive been here 5 years and im from America as well and I lean to the right, politically. I think that is about where our commonality ends.

I explained "tosser" to you as it was explained to me when I first arrived here and befriended people from different areas of the world and subsequently heard some of the many different forms of English that is spoken around the world with its different terms, sayings, etc. So unless you have lived under a rock for the past five years, only crawling out for AMCHAM events, I assume you too have heard this term and thus were asking for its definition in sarcasm.

You are not helping our arrogant stereotype much by asserting that everyone speaks English like we do, especially on a forum that is mostly non-American. That claim would be impossible to prove as people around the world are constantly learning English in different ways from different teachers. Do I really have to explain this to you?

Funny that you fault the UK's immigration policy for THE SAME POLICY OUR COUNTRY HAS AND WAS FOUNDED ON. Do you think the population explosion on the East Coast from 1880-1920 was due to an influx of first world, wealthy individuals? What about the Asian/Mexican population explosion of the 20th century in California? All rich first world Anglo Christians?

Your arguments about blaming society vs personal responsibility have been your only relevant posts here and I actually agree with some of what you said there. I urge you to stick to that topic as your tangents onto other matters have only served to reinforce the stereotypes that I and other Americans have worked to reverse.

[hellodolly]

TB67

"The UK also allows in every third world dirtbag and Islamic radical who shows up at its border. They can blame the bleeding heart leftys for their problems."

"Five years. I speak American English like most of the English speaking world does."

Do you have any evidence to support your above comments? Or are they simply unsubstantiated and based on your naiive realism?

This problem is considerable worse in many countries than Thailand.

You claim its worse elsewhere, do YOU have any evidence to support your claims? Thailand is one of the most dangerous countries in the world as far as risk of murder is concerned, so I'm curious to hear about all these other countries so much worse where you have gangs of thugs from actual colleges going around murdering each other for school pride.

Actually Thailand ranks 104th for murder at 4.8 / 100 000 per annum (Just by the way America is 110th at 4.2 / 100 000 per annum )

EDIT: Annum = 1 year , thought I'd save you a trip to the dictionary

The main reason for Thailand being so high is the south where the Islam idiots kill just so they can get to heaven and have 50 virgins. I believe that they have killed more people in Thailand than any other country. Over 4,000.

On the same topic they also do not raise their kids with conflict settling methods other than violence. Hence things tend to build up in them and some of them resort to killing. Or even worse taking it out on there families. If not worse pretty close to it.

In the states it is the teenage gangs fighting over drugs there turf or what ever that do the teen killing. A badge of honor to them the same as the schools here.

Edited September 4, 2012 by hellodolly

[wooly]

I have just read my earlier post, and on reflection I may have got something slightly wrong.

I wrote "will the last foreigner to leave please switch off the light. Oh it's ok they are doing it themselves."

Maybe the last sentence should be amended to "It's ok it was never on"

[hellodolly]

"Deadly rivalries between student gangs have seen several teenagers gunned down in Bangkok since the start of the school year in May, leaving the kingdom's authorities scrambling for answers to a decades-old violent tradition"

They know the answer. We all know the answer. Stop allowing people to escape justice through paying bribes. Simple. Might take a year or two, but getting a 200 baht fine for stabbing someone in the head is just encouraging them to continue. Secondly, for juveniles, start harrassing the parents; fine them, have a judge order them to sort their kids out and failure to do so is contempt of court. Loads they could do but it would require an un corrupt judiciary and police, and a police that police.

I doubt these guys can really afford bribes, and the prison system is already filled with those who similarly could not. It is the rich and wealthy who are the real cowards, hiding behind walls of wealth and connection.

The key word above, the word that is really at the heart of the problem, is “hierarchy”. These children see no future; they are at the bottom of the pile. Left to rot their by a corrupt system whose only use for them is to work as labourers in factories making their fat rich bosses even fatter and richer.

While one should never excuse the despicable acts of an individual, we certainly need to look at the system that is guilty of creating them.

Oh pleez. More bleeding heart feel good lefty crap. You being born into a family without money does not give you a license to go be a menace to society and then blame the system. Whats your suggestion anyway? Reverting to communism? With your obvious hatred of anyone who has money sounds like you think thats a fine idea. People need to take responsibility for thier own actions. Blaming society will do nothing but create a soceity of entititlement and victimhood.

good comments ...jails these days they live better than pensioners in a lot of countries look at that thing recently 21 years for 70 murders ...all the do gooders r stuffing the rest of us up...the uk is fxxxed so is aussie

I take it you two have no idea of being in a foreign culture with a different set of beliefs.

You are just going to impose the beliefs on the country that were imposed on you.

You are missing a golden opportunity. They say travel broadens the mind. Don't continue to ignore the opportunity.

[farangbanok]

ThomaBird67

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

ThomaBird67

I consider the Thai males that attend vocational colleges little more than soi dogs. Actually, they are soi dogs with motorbikes.

If visitors to Thailand make comments like this what chance does the system have to change the current "legend" behaviour.

Your inane and insulting comments are an embarrassment to decent Westerners. Akin to kicking a ticket collector who won't let you take balloons on the train, I politely suggest!

You would do well to leave Thailand, and live in a country where all students are at your "assumed" social level.

My wife teaches in a vocational college, and my experience of the students is a great willingness AND ABILITY to learn. Unlike the HiSo's who have their University places bought for them they achieve a great deal by their own efforts.

They don't have rich parents, so they have not had the advantage of expensive private or International schools.

From what I have seen of pupils from International schools they are mainly "new money" or farang and have learnt all the worst gestures and foul language that Westerners learn in the lowest grade of State school.

Until the HiSo's and the farang in particular learn to respect the way in which the poorer, less well funded students at vocational colleges are trying to better themselves then the gang fights will continue. Pride is a powerful emotion, especially in a culture where "face" is so important.

Don't lump me in with your "lefty" people, Attilla the Hun was a REAL "lefty" as far as I am concerned!

Edited September 4, 2012 by farangbanok

[Docno]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

Why do people like you have anything to do with Thai people and/or choose to live there? Makes no sense....

[Docno]

TB67

"The UK also allows in every third world dirtbag and Islamic radical who shows up at its border. They can blame the bleeding heart leftys for their problems."

"Five years. I speak American English like most of the English speaking world does."

Do you have any evidence to support your above comments? Or are they simply unsubstantiated and based on your naiive realism?

This problem is considerable worse in many countries than Thailand.

You claim its worse elsewhere, do YOU have any evidence to support your claims? Thailand is one of the most dangerous countries in the world as far as risk of murder is concerned, so I'm curious to hear about all these other countries so much worse where you have gangs of thugs from actual colleges going around murdering each other for school pride.

Actually Thailand ranks 104th for murder at 4.8 / 100 000 per annum (Just by the way America is 110th at 4.2 / 100 000 per annum )

EDIT: Annum = 1 year , thought I'd save you a trip to the dictionary

Good that you translated that into "American" for him... Apparently most of the world speaks only that. :-)

Edited September 4, 2012 by Docno

[Dap]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

NOT specific to "Thais". Look at the world around us and think about the country of your birth.

[brewsterbudgen]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

Why do people like you have anything to do with Thai people and/or choose to live there? Makes no sense....

I think Mr Bird is just having some fun and enjoying winding people up. I doubt very much he believes in the stuff he's posting. Or at least I hope he doesn't!

[catweazle]

I read nearly every post here, I did not see any mention of parents, or parenting, or the lack thereof.

It has almost been 10 years since my first visit to LOS. The thing that really sticks in my mind on my first day in BKK was the absence of graffiti. Now it is every where.

I also remember, not being able to find a internet cafe easily.. Forget about wireless hotspot.

My point is parents are no longer parenting, the video games are taking over these young minds, and this is the result. Happening world over and gonna get much worse.

...then it seems you overlooked my post sent this morning:

The problem can just be rooted out if you start at the root which are THE PARENTS. Biggest problem here in Thailand is that most Thai parents give a toss about their children and on top of that the midle class wannabe Hi-So parents are too busy shopping and blind dating. How can the kids have self respect and self esteem if the parents can't express to them that they are loved and being cared for?

Also tradition and traditional beliefs play a big negative role here: There are Thai parents out there who never have hugged their children since they were toddlers, letting alone giving them a kiss or receiving one. It all comes together and leaves empty-shelled teenagers behind who have no respect for themselves and others and who can't feel true affection or sympathy for others. Believe me - the root of the problems are parents and how most Thai kids are brought up here! Many also are raised by uncles, aunts and grandparents who mostly are too old, too ignorant or too deep into gambling and booze to give a tart about their grandchildrens' or nephews' future... It's sad but true. Have seen enough in my 21+ years here.

Really makes me sad when I have to read that a teenager boasts about having someone stabbed in the head, getting away with murder and that this makes him proud. What a shitty world we live in...

Yupp - posted around 11:00 this morning and obviously missed by the majority here - the problem was addressed, but everyone kept going on writing about which country is the worst one in regards of teen crimes and whether or not bootcamps are a good idea, but never getting to the root of the problem...

Edited September 4, 2012 by catweazle

[Beetlejuice]

These brain dead thugs are just a bunch of no hopers to begin with and nothing will ever change them.

The solution is not to omit them into University or at the first sign of problems expel them immediately and after that place the thugs into incarceration, where they can be with their mates in they`re natural environments

[Andre0720]

"...We do it for pride."

Perhaps their misunderstood pride could be calmed down somewhat if they received a good spanking (or caning)...

Caning. That could certainly do it. I saw in the past a documentary on an individual who got caning as a punishment. He said that anyone who got caned once, will make sure he never gets it again.

[Andre0720]

I read nearly every post here, I did not see any mention of parents, or parenting, or the lack thereof.

It has almost been 10 years since my first visit to LOS. The thing that really sticks in my mind on my first day in BKK was the absence of graffiti. Now it is every where.

I also remember, not being able to find a internet cafe easily.. Forget about wireless hotspot.

My point is parents are no longer parenting, the video games are taking over these young minds, and this is the result. Happening world over and gonna get much worse.

...then it seems you overlooked my post sent this morning:

The problem can just be rooted out if you start at the root which are THE PARENTS. Biggest problem here in Thailand is that most Thai parents give a toss about their children and on top of that the midle class wannabe Hi-So parents are too busy shopping and blind dating. How can the kids have self respect and self esteem if the parents can't express to them that they are loved and being cared for?

Also tradition and traditional beliefs play a big negative role here: There are Thai parents out there who never have hugged their children since they were toddlers, letting alone giving them a kiss or receiving one. It all comes together and leaves empty-shelled teenagers behind who have no respect for themselves and others and who can't feel true affection or sympathy for others. Believe me - the root of the problems are parents and how most Thai kids are brought up here! Many also are raised by uncles, aunts and grandparents who mostly are too old, too ignorant or too deep into gambling and booze to give a tart about their grandchildrens' or nephews' future... It's sad but true. Have seen enough in my 21+ years here.

Really makes me sad when I have to read that a teenager boasts about having someone stabbed in the head, getting away with murder and that this makes him proud. What a shitty world we live in...

Yupp - posted around 11:00 this morning and obviously missed by the majority here - the problem was addressed, but everyone kept going on writing about which country is the worst one in regards of teen crimes and whether or not bootcamps are a good idea, but never getting to the root of the problem...

I read nearly every post here, I did not see any mention of parents, or parenting, or the lack thereof.

It has almost been 10 years since my first visit to LOS. The thing that really sticks in my mind on my first day in BKK was the absence of graffiti. Now it is every where.

I also remember, not being able to find a internet cafe easily.. Forget about wireless hotspot.

My point is parents are no longer parenting, the video games are taking over these young minds, and this is the result. Happening world over and gonna get much worse.

...then it seems you overlooked my post sent this morning:

The problem can just be rooted out if you start at the root which are THE PARENTS. Biggest problem here in Thailand is that most Thai parents give a toss about their children and on top of that the midle class wannabe Hi-So parents are too busy shopping and blind dating. How can the kids have self respect and self esteem if the parents can't express to them that they are loved and being cared for?

Also tradition and traditional beliefs play a big negative role here: There are Thai parents out there who never have hugged their children since they were toddlers, letting alone giving them a kiss or receiving one. It all comes together and leaves empty-shelled teenagers behind who have no respect for themselves and others and who can't feel true affection or sympathy for others. Believe me - the root of the problems are parents and how most Thai kids are brought up here! Many also are raised by uncles, aunts and grandparents who mostly are too old, too ignorant or too deep into gambling and booze to give a tart about their grandchildrens' or nephews' future... It's sad but true. Have seen enough in my 21+ years here.

Really makes me sad when I have to read that a teenager boasts about having someone stabbed in the head, getting away with murder and that this makes him proud. What a shitty world we live in...

Yupp - posted around 11:00 this morning and obviously missed by the majority here - the problem was addressed, but everyone kept going on writing about which country is the worst one in regards of teen crimes and whether or not bootcamps are a good idea, but never getting to the root of the problem...

Well, I did not miss your post. Was the only one that got my attention.

There is a book in psychology that describes how "everything happens before age 6".

This would indicate that parents (the father in most instances) were not there to teach proper values to children before age 6.

So anything that could be done would therefore apply to the next generation. And chances are it will not happen.

My friend who worked in psycho-education found out that all she could do is to be a babysitter for these problem children. And once they reach age 18, they are automatically left to themselves, with consequences to society that we know.

And as I often say, if there was an easy solution to any problem, someone would already have implemented it.

In Thailand, kids are often raised without good parenting. These kids evolve with concepts of "saving face", which sem to force them to react violently to any other kid who might insult them, their gang, or their family. In Thailand, this is the way it is.

Welcome to Thailand, as it is said.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Andre0720

[metisdead]

Profanity posts as well as other overly derogatory posts and replies have been removed.

[moto77]

I love Thailand, but it needs to evolve. There is virtually no upward mobility and very little opportunity for the poor to earn a livable wage. In this situation, boys turn to crime, girls to prostitution. And this state of affairs is tolerated decade after decade. How many families' social safety net is a daughter working as a prostitute? Very very few would choose lives like these if it wasn't for poverty. This is a very sad state of affairs indeed.