Us Ambassador Chris Stevens Killed In Libya

[softgeorge]

And now this report of UK and German embassies being assaulted in Sudan. Non implicated parties.

The German Embassy in Khartoum, Sudan was on fire Friday after protests against the online anti-Islam video, a journalist on the scene, Isma'il Kamal Kushkush, said. No embassy personnel were believed to be inside.The UK Foreign Office also says protesters were demonstrating Friday outside its embassy, next to the German Embassy, in Khartoum.

A religious "leader" made mention in Friday prayers that anti Islamic graffiti had been uncovered in Germany and therefore incited people to attack the German embassy. UK is aligned to US so it's not "Non implicated". Doesn't make the attacks right, but that's the thinking

Ummm. so some mullah says that the scribblings of someone in Germany are grounds to assault the Germany embassy and set fire to it?

Ok, so the UK is aligned with the USA. What does that make Denmark, or Canada, or Poland, or Thailand for that matter?

I'm certainly not shooting the messenger here, but attacking the German embassy?????

I don't think they really need an excuse to carry on the the way they do. Simply the act of farting by a non muslim with 10 kms of a mosque will set some of these people off.

As my dad always told me - Blasphemy is a victimless crime it is the other crimes that follow that are the real problem.

[simple1]

Back to this film as a cause for current events.

One possibility that has not been mentioned is that the film is just the proverbial straw that

broke that camels back.

The film is nothing but a pretext. A modern Kristallnacht.

I agree in a way but, Kristallnacht was against a people that lived

in those areas. This looks more like an expelling of a foreign government presence.

I guess they as a country are allowed to do so. Of course it should have been done by diplomatic

actions, declarations.

But they also cannot have it both ways. If they want foreign governments off

their soil then they also should not receive foreign aide from those they expel.

Exactly .Foreign aid !

What a joke ,we are already broke !.What business do we have handing out 1.8 billions of tax payer money for the Egyptian Muslim Brothers ,really ! ,who's zooming who ?

And immigration must stop immediately before they bring this scourge in our shores if they have not already done so .

It could happen here !

To quote Winston Churchill "It is not too late ,but it is is time "

Ever heard of "realpolitik". the majority of aid is for the military equipment, If the US and other western governments cease military related funding to Islamic States you can guarantee the Russians, Chinese etc will fill the void. Also thousands in the Defense industries in the West would lose their jobs.

[geriatrickid]

Ever heard of "realpolitik". the majority of aid is for the military equipment, If the US and other western governments cease military related funding to Islamic States you can guarantee the Russians, Chinese etc will fill the void. Also thousands in the Defense industries in the West would lose their jobs.

Fair enough. I'm sure the Israelis and Nato would prefer Egypt was equipped with Chinese equipment. I'm sure it is every bit as reliable as the Chinese sourced fan I put in the trash yesterday. In any case, I can think of the $2billion US aid package being put to good use in the USA. Infrastructure could be rebuilt and funding for research and development could be bolstered and maybe even NASA could get a raise. As I recall, at one time NASA was a big US employer and was responsible for some major scientific advancements that benefited everyone, and I'm not just talking about Tang instant OJ. I see no reason now why the west diverts much needed money for any of these regimes. If China and Russia want to beleed themselves dry, let them. Thing is the Chinese always wants something in return and aside from poverty, sand and ignorance I don't know what Egypt has to offer.

[sauvagecheri]

"Ever heard of "realpolitik". the majority of aid is for the military equipment, If the US and other western governments cease military related funding to Islamic States you can guarantee the Russians, Chinese etc will fill the void. Also thousands in the Defense industries in the West would lose their jobs."

That is so wonderful !

And why can't the "U!ema " take care of it's own people and feed them themselves with those untold billions if not trillions of oil money we so dutifully send them already,let them pay for their own armament if that is what they want ..Of course that is not taking into account the handsome payoffs our fearless leaders are probably getting from the same oil money people to facilitate those great deals ! "We the people " are getting screwed big time .

Edited September 15, 2012 by sauvagecheri

[simple1]

Ever heard of "realpolitik". the majority of aid is for the military equipment, If the US and other western governments cease military related funding to Islamic States you can guarantee the Russians, Chinese etc will fill the void. Also thousands in the Defense industries in the West would lose their jobs.

Fair enough. I'm sure the Israelis and Nato would prefer Egypt was equipped with Chinese equipment. I'm sure it is every bit as reliable as the Chinese sourced fan I put in the trash yesterday. In any case, I can think of the $2billion US aid package being put to good use in the USA. Infrastructure could be rebuilt and funding for research and development could be bolstered and maybe even NASA could get a raise. As I recall, at one time NASA was a big US employer and was responsible for some major scientific advancements that benefited everyone, and I'm not just talking about Tang instant OJ. I see no reason now why the west diverts much needed money for any of these regimes. If China and Russia want to beleed themselves dry, let them. Thing is the Chinese always wants something in return and aside from poverty, sand and ignorance I don't know what Egypt has to offer.

Somewhat shortsighted. I would not underestimate the investment being made by the Chinese in defense related R&D. Egypt controls the Suez Canal, a strategic asset through which about 8% of world trade flows. as well as natural gas sector being developed that I would think the Chinese would love to access. Your right the China wants something in return and it's not just assets, but influence. The Chinese are making massive investments in places like Africa to secure their access/supply of natural resources. Current estimates are China will overtake the US as the world's superpower in around 30/50 years; subject to further development in force projection capability

Edited September 15, 2012 by simple1

[Scott]

Some interesting information is being presented, but please try to tie it into the present topic, otherwise the thread is likely to stray too far off-topic.

Thanks.

[GentlemanJim]

With Scott's comment in mind, but also agreeing it is good discussion/info, I will try and get one last bit of info in to answer something GK raised. It is actually much better that nations like Egypt, Saudi etc etc buy American. One main military reason why is that the US never sell there top notch latest development stuff anyway, so an F-16 for example, sold to anyone else, including the Israeli's, is nowhere near as capable as an F-16 belonging to the US military. they look the same on the outside, but they are nothing like in terms of fitted equipment. Also almost all of these advanced systems have a remote 'off' switch, so if it was attempted to use them against US targets then the Pentagon or whoever can simply disable their capability. Clever eh! and one reason why the Brits have always busted their balls developing their own military equipment, even if it is inferior in some ways, it is absolutely ours, and although the easiest solution has always been to buy off the shelf from the yanks, the UK wont do it (apart from heavy lift transport aircraft - just too expensive to develop for the small amount we need). So the foreign aid to these countries will not stop anytime soon as it is all cycled back to the US taxpayer via the Military route.

[simple1]

With Scott's comment in mind, but also agreeing it is good discussion/info, I will try and get one last bit of info in to answer something GK raised. It is actually much better that nations like Egypt, Saudi etc etc buy American. One main military reason why is that the US never sell there top notch latest development stuff anyway, so an F-16 for example, sold to anyone else, including the Israeli's, is nowhere near as capable as an F-16 belonging to the US military. they look the same on the outside, but they are nothing like in terms of fitted equipment. Also almost all of these advanced systems have a remote 'off' switch, so if it was attempted to use them against US targets then the Pentagon or whoever can simply disable their capability. Clever eh! and one reason why the Brits have always busted their balls developing their own military equipment, even if it is inferior in some ways, it is absolutely ours, and although the easiest solution has always been to buy off the shelf from the yanks, the UK wont do it (apart from heavy lift transport aircraft - just too expensive to develop for the small amount we need). So the foreign aid to these countries will not stop anytime soon as it is all cycled back to the US taxpayer via the Military route.

Remember US announced sale of US$60b of military equipment to Saudi Arabia, one reason to counterbalance the perceived threat of Iran; source

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/NewsDetails/tabid/96/smid/414/ArticleID/160981/reftab/73/Default.aspx

Edited September 15, 2012 by simple1

[TomTao]

And now this report of UK and German embassies being assaulted in Sudan. Non implicated parties.

The German Embassy in Khartoum, Sudan was on fire Friday after protests against the online anti-Islam video, a journalist on the scene, Isma'il Kamal Kushkush, said. No embassy personnel were believed to be inside.The UK Foreign Office also says protesters were demonstrating Friday outside its embassy, next to the German Embassy, in Khartoum.

A religious "leader" made mention in Friday prayers that anti Islamic graffiti had been uncovered in Germany and therefore incited people to attack the German embassy. UK is aligned to US so it's not "Non implicated". Doesn't make the attacks right, but that's the thinking

Ummm. so some mullah says that the scribblings of someone in Germany are grounds to assault the Germany embassy and set fire to it?

Ok, so the UK is aligned with the USA. What does that make Denmark, or Canada, or Poland, or Thailand for that matter?

I'm certainly not shooting the messenger here, but attacking the German embassy?????

The problem is that we are dealing with a 'machine' that must resemble what was going on in Europe in the dark ages. We have the mullahs who are preaching to groups that are no where near the top of the tree when it comes to education, in fact the less they are educated the better for the mullahs. The mullahs can tell these illiterates ANYTHING, and they will be believed. They can justify any course of action as the will of God or Mohammed and the baying crowd will oblige. Because of events of the last 72 hours there is a real opportunity for Governments world-wide to take action on this. I still believe it is a mistake to incite people of any particular religious sensitivity towards violence, but it is time our Governments established a firm no BS policy.

Governments must re affirm the right of everybody to pratice their own religion, but those religions are not permitted to interfere with Government. Absolutely no rights for religious protests and religious pressure groups. No tolerance of any system that wants a religious code of law. The French were getting the right idea and the only country showing any kuhoonas when they banned the veil. If you wish to wear a veil at home, feel free. Wearing it in public in places where security is an issue and must be correctly maintained...no chance. If you don't like it, move to a country that does.

If people want to belong to the churches of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, scientology or the universal church of the jedi then go ahead, but keep it private in your own place of worship. No public religious demonstrations, placards or general interference in state affairs. If you want to be a religious leader OK but you can't go into politics, and the minute a President/Prime Minister says God is on our side etc etc then impeach them. We must adopt a zero tolerance towards pandering to religious whims. If you want to fast during Ramadan then fine, but do not expect any limitations to be imposed on anyone else in the office in order they do not upset your sensitivities. Now is the perfect time for some zero BS leadership to step up to the plate and to firmly separate once and for all state and religion before this cancererous type of social behaviour that we are witnessing takes over the world, and given free reign it will. If any country cannot control it's citizens from rioting at the gates of our embassies over religious clap-trap then close those embassies and the missions and withdraw from the country terminating all business transactions and foreign aid. They are clearly in the middle ages and we really don't need them, we will get by, and when they realise that their entire development will cease then maybe they will start behaving with a Global social responsibility. The ball is rolling, we should not let these folks in Libya die in vain. Now if someone has a very large ladder I need some help getting off this soap box.

I think you will find that what happened in Lybia and Egypt, as well as other places in the Middle East has very little to do with religion, but rather was a co-ordinated attack by an organised group wishing to make a statement about dominance in the areas affected by the attacks, whilst they used the film as justification for thier actions, the film actually has nothing to do with it, a co-ordinated multi-national attack does not happen on a whim, this would have been planned well in advance, I believe the attacks have more to do with the anniversary of 9/11 and perhaps revenge for the killing of a senior Alqueida member recently. Please consider this, the more Christianity and other moderate religions are pushed into the background, the more the militant aspects of Islam will come to fill the void that is left, which would you prefer, a religion that you may not like that usually helps others, or a religion you may come to fear that has a militant aspect that usually kills others? It does not matter how much you may desire to see the absence of any religious influence at any level of society, there will always be a religious element present, whether it be Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Brahmanism, Scientology, New age, Paganism, the list goes on. The people who attacked were making a political statement, not a religious one.

[zydeco]

http://www.thegatewa...in-the-streets/

It's awful for a man who spent 2 years in the region teaching English with the Peace Corps, then most of his 10 yr diplomatic career in the Middle East North Africa. Someone who wasn't a political appointee, but someone truly interested in the region and people.

Clinton and Obama say that the people taking his body were FRIENDLIES and they were taking it to the hospital. Looking at the pictures, that could be the case.

I hope it is.

I just read the NY Post piece and the caption they have under one of the photos is,...

"

Libyan civilians help an unconscious Chris Stevens, at the US consulate compound in Benghazi . Stevens and three of his colleagues were killed in an attack on the US consulate.

Read more:

http://www.nypost.co...K#ixzz26GeTRGAD

"

I think that is correct, I have now read many articles saying that the men were trying to get the Ambassador to safety/treatment. However, Jim Hoft of the Gateway pundit does not give a flying fig about accuracy. I imagine the publication of that picture is unbearable for the Ambassadors family to see.

Annabel

Brilliant link thanks, I have that one bookmarked now.

Not too long ago the Obama administration sanctioned an air attack on Khaddafi, who was captured by Obama's allies and then murdered. His body was then paraded through the streets and laid out for public display. It is a sad irony that this American ambassador was in Libya coordinating with the gangs who did this before he was named ambassador. Now, probably some of the same people he was helping not too long ago used weapons he might well have helped them acquire to murder him. That part of the world is filled with treachery and malice. Best to leave the Libyans to their own devices. No good comes from interfering in the lives and governments of other peoples.

[cbuddha]

One main military reason why is that the US never sell there top notch latest development stuff anyway, so an F-16 for example, sold to anyone else, including the Israeli's, is nowhere near as capable as an F-16 belonging to the US military. they look the same on the outside, but they are nothing like in terms of fitted equipment.

I agree with some of the things you say, but this might not be the best example. The most advanced F-16s in the world, the Desert Falcons, belong to the UAE: http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-uaes-f-16-block-60-desert-falcon-fleet-04538/

[harryfrompattaya]

Personal arguments and baiting posts and replies have been deleted.

To paraphrase a saying, when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging.

When you have nothing more to add to a topic, stop posting. Continued arguing will get adverse action.

This is a very big Topic and whatever you stay the cause of this is the same as what is going on in South Thailand. It is not the movie it is not the borders it is you known what but we are afraid to say

Please permit this post

[koheesti]

Amazing and annoying double-standards by some posters here. They care about the freedom of expression of the producer/director of this movie ; yet they didn't give a dam_n about Assange's !

One made a very bad movie, the other encouraged others to steal classified documents then blindly made them public without knowing what was in them. At least the Coptic, a group that has been brutalized by Egyptian Muslims for a long time, knew exactly what he was putting out there. I worked with an Egyptian Coptic Christian in Dubai. He would tell me what the Muslims were allowed to do to the Coptics and show me videos on YouTube of the brutality. They do not like each other very much and it's not surprise that the guy made a video making Mohammed look bad.

Sorry for getting off-topic, this thread is about the US Ambassador being murdered by terrorists, not about protesting an offensive video and free speech.

[simple1]

@TomTao; Your words "The people who attacked were making a political statement, not a religious one". Sorry don't agree, Islam does not separate politics and religion, one and the same.

Following on from your point regarding marginalisation of faiths. I recently watched a video on the internet of a speech made by an Imam. He was saying that in the Koran it talks to a future alliance with Rome (Christians). He preached this has been misinterpreted. The prophecy was about the Orthodox Eastern Church that at the time was the religion of the Byzantine Empire. He went on to say that the main centre for the Orthodox Eastern Church is now Russia and in order to fulfill the prophecy Islamic states should align with the Russian Christians - good fuel for the conspiracy theorists!

Edited September 15, 2012 by simple1

[Scott]

Posts which are based on partisan politics have been deleted throughout the thread.

[cheeryble]

Egypt controls the Suez Canal, a strategic asset through which about 8% of world trade flows.

I would guess most of that 8% is in the form of oil, whose necessity to the West could be changed in a (historical) trice by for example swingeing selective gas or engine size taxation to preserve this resource which preservation is needed anyway. This way you'll reduce ridiculous US engine sizes and do the world two favours at the same time. Not to mention a small reduction in oil demand would have a very large effect on oil prices with all benefits to all plus reduction in power of oil producers such as Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Libya. Seems to me if thi shad been done a couple of decades ago many of the nasty things which have happened in and come from those countries could have been avoided.

Is there any other valid reason for being obsessed with the Middle East?

Edited September 15, 2012 by cheeryble

[koheesti]

Egypt controls the Suez Canal, a strategic asset through which about 8% of world trade flows.

I would guess most of that 8% is in the form of oil, whose necessity to the West could be changed in a (historical) trice by for example swingeing taxation to preserve this resource which preservation is needed anyway. This you'll reduce ridiculous US engine sizes and do the world two favours at the same time. Not to mention a small reduction in oil demand would have a very large effect on oil prices with all benefits to all plus reduction in power of oil producers such as Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Libya. Seems to me if thi shad been done a couple of decades ago many of the nasty things which have happened in and come from those countries could have been avoided.

Is there any other non-reason for being obsessed with the Middle East?

Oil is necessary commodity throughout the world. Anyone who disagrees is clueless. Sorry. There are hundreds if not thousands of uses for petroleum besides gasoline. People who whine about oil are the same as Vegans who wear fur coats and leather shoes.

[softgeorge]

This has now spread to Australian Streets with people (Muslims) getting violent in anti American protests. I can't see why they are causing trouble in Australia as aussies haven't done anything to warrant the violence.

Muslim protesters clash with police in Sydney

A violent anti-American protest that began in Sydney's CBD has come to an explosive end after demonstrators stormed out of Hyde Park and dispersed onto William Street.

http://news.ninemsn....olice-in-sydney

Edited September 15, 2012 by Scott
font

[Ulysses G.]

Egypt controls the Suez Canal, a strategic asset through which about 8% of world trade flows.

I would guess most of that 8% is in the form of oil, whose necessity to the West could be changed in a (historical) trice by for example swingeing taxation to preserve this resource which preservation is needed anyway. This you'll reduce ridiculous US engine sizes and do the world two favours at the same time. Not to mention a small reduction in oil demand would have a very large effect on oil prices with all benefits to all plus reduction in power of oil producers such as Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Libya. Seems to me if thi shad been done a couple of decades ago many of the nasty things which have happened in and come from those countries could have been avoided.

Is there any other non-reason for being obsessed with the Middle East?

Oil is necessary commodity throughout the world. Anyone who disagrees is clueless. Sorry. There are hundreds if not thousands of uses for petroleum besides gasoline. People who whine about oil are the same as Vegans who wear fur coats and leather shoes.

Agreed and that is not going to change for a long time.

[Jayman]

This has now spread to Australian Streets with people (Muslims) getting violent in anti American protests. I can't see why they are causing trouble in Australia as aussies haven't done anything to warrant the violence.

Muslim protesters clash with police in Sydney

A violent anti-American protest that began in Sydney's CBD has come to an explosive end after demonstrators stormed out of Hyde Park and dispersed onto William Street.

http://news.ninemsn....olice-in-sydney

This seems to have spread around the world as can be seen on this google map

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=201645180959880549419.0004c9a894dfb66defab9&msa=0&ie=UTF8&t=m&ll=25.005

[simple1]

@softgeorge - You know Australia is a US ally and has still has military in Afghanistan. However, some idiot held up a placard saying something like "behead them" - police should have immediately arrested him - but probably didn't have a snatch team on hand - hopefully they will have CCTV coverage to identify & arrest him later. Your ex Australian police? I understand police can do so under Australian law.

[BookMan]

I just watched part of the film. I am all for free speech, but whoever put it together should be held accountable for the bad acting. I can't believe that it cost 5 million dollars to make. 5 hundred sounds more like it.

It is almost comedic, incredibly hard to take seriously.

[softgeorge]

@softgeorge - You know Australia is a US ally and has still has military in Afghanistan. However, some idiot held up a placard saying something like "behead them" - police should have immediately arrested him - but probably didn't have a snatch team on hand - hopefully they will have CCTV coverage to identify & arrest him later. Your ex Australian police? I understand police can do so under Australian law.

The Police have arrested quite a few already, but it appears that they are going to be released because of the demands of the islamic leaders who have threatened to esculate the problem if they are not released. They are claiming that the police are racist and started the violence. They will probably grab them again later will things cool down. The Police in Australia are way to soft now because of fear of offending certain types.

P.S no ex police till police.

[TomTao]

@TomTao; Your words "The people who attacked were making a political statement, not a religious one". Sorry don't agree, Islam does not separate politics and religion, one and the same.

Following on from your point regarding marginalisation of faiths. I recently watched a video on the internet of a speech made by an Imam. He was saying that in the Koran it talks to a future alliance with Rome (Christians). He preached this has been misinterpreted. The prophecy was about the Orthodox Eastern Church that at the time was the religion of the Byzantine Empire. He went on to say that the main centre for the Orthodox Eastern Church is now Russia and in order to fulfill the prophecy Islamic states should align with the Russian Christians - good fuel for the conspiracy theorists!

Yes, in the stricter Islamicly controlled countries and regions the religion is the state, just as in strict Communist countries the state is the religion, whereas in the west religion and state have been separated, but of course there are politicians who do have religious belief, but thier religion is not the state.

It will give food for the conspiracy theorists, but only time will tell how all this plays out on the international stage both politically and religiously.

[cheeryble]

Egypt controls the Suez Canal, a strategic asset through which about 8% of world trade flows.

I would guess most of that 8% is in the form of oil, whose necessity to the West could be changed in a (historical) trice by for example swingeing taxation to preserve this resource which preservation is needed anyway. This you'll reduce ridiculous US engine sizes and do the world two favours at the same time. Not to mention a small reduction in oil demand would have a very large effect on oil prices with all benefits to all plus reduction in power of oil producers such as Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Libya. Seems to me if thi shad been done a couple of decades ago many of the nasty things which have happened in and come from those countries could have been avoided.

Is there any other non-reason for being obsessed with the Middle East?

Oil is necessary commodity throughout the world. Anyone who disagrees is clueless. Sorry. There are hundreds if not thousands of uses for petroleum besides gasoline. People who whine about oil are the same as Vegans who wear fur coats and leather shoes.

I'm sorry I don't quite see anything but a proclamation here Koheesti.

I suggest this however is a rational concatenation:

1: A decisive US government could reasonably reduce oil consumption significantly in a decade. (major reductions in consumption have been done in months in times of crisis)

2: That reduction in demand would remove US total dependence on having influence in the region and weaken those countries.....including Saudi, Libya, Iran and Iraq, and not forgetting Venezuela.

3: A small % reduction in demand would presumably translate to a larger, leveraged, reduction in price. When competition gets strong, OPEC nations may sell independently or surreptitiously....it's happened before.

4: Even if Fact 3 didn't happen it wouldn't be all important to the US as they would be more independent, and 1and 2 would hold.

Once again....this could have happened ages ago when half the cars in America were road boats as opposed to now merely being twice the necessary size. It would have avoided war and enriched everyone around the world except the oil producers.

(swingeing gas or engine taxation would of course be overall tax neutral).

Edited September 15, 2012 by cheeryble

[JemJem]

I think the US should cut all aid to Libya and possibly even break relations if the people who killed the Americans there are not caught and handed over to the US.

But I feel this won't happen (due to the oil factor).

Obama's initial response was way too mild.

Edited September 15, 2012 by JemJem

[mania]

I think the US should cut all aid to Libya and possibly even break relations if the people who killed the Americans there are not caught and handed over to the US.

But I feel this won't happen (due to the oil factor).

Obama's initial response was way too mild.

1- I may be wrong but the only aid the US gave to Libya was 25 Million to Libyan Rebels, Not Libya

Here are the top 10

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/30/us-foreign-aid-by-country_n_1837824.html#slide=1405858

2- Break relations? It would seem that is what the Libyans & others want not what the US should do but what they want the US to do.

3- Your right about Oil. although it may not be for US usage

Edited September 15, 2012 by mania

[I Like Thai]

It is often helpful to look back in History. The assassination of Archduke Ferdinand of Austria was the spark that ignited World War 1. These type of incidents don't have anything to do with what's going on. This just sparked underlying tensions, that were already bubbling up. World War One, would have occurred whether the Duke was assassinated or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria

[GentlemanJim]

This has now spread to Australian Streets with people (Muslims) getting violent in anti American protests. I can't see why they are causing trouble in Australia as aussies haven't done anything to warrant the violence.

Muslim protesters clash with police in Sydney

A violent anti-American protest that began in Sydney's CBD has come to an explosive end after demonstrators stormed out of Hyde Park and dispersed onto William Street.

http://news.ninemsn....olice-in-sydney

A

ll I can say after looking at the photo's and news video, is it is clearly easy to identify the violent protestors in some instances. They need to be caught and if they are not natural Austrailians and are on a residence visa, or recent nationality change, they should be put on an aircraft and shipped straight back to where they came from. If that is against Australian law then parliament need to sit as a matter of urgency and change the law. Any country in the west should do the same with any other violent protestors.

The other Hyde Park in London will be fun tomorrow morning at speakers corner!!

Edited September 15, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[geriatrickid]

I think the US should cut all aid to Libya and possibly even break relations if the people who killed the Americans there are not caught and handed over to the US.

But I feel this won't happen (due to the oil factor).

Obama's initial response was way too mild.

You are being unfair to Libya. There is genuine remorse, and heartfelt grief. The Libyans acted fast and have arrested some of the alleged culprits. Libya for the most part has been trying to do the right thing. This contrats sharply to the Egyptian government who have said one thing to the west and who have continued to stoke the fires of the protest by posting incendiary statements on the Muslim Brotherhood website, and in having a direct hand at some of the marches.

Why would you demand that the Libyans hand over the culprits? There is no legal obligation to do so and such an act would only serve to undermine the legal government of Libya. Would you make the same demand of the UK or Australia or Canada is it had happened in one of those countries? These countries would not hand over the accused. The chances are that the attackers if found guilty in Libya would face a more severe penalty than if found guilty in one of the aforementioned western countries.

What exactly do you expect President Obama to do? Stamp his foot and demand the protests stop or "else"? Or else what? It is not as if the USA can bomb everyone that it doesn't like. The USA has to co-exist with some very nasty people. If it did not make nice with some of these countries, the US economy would collapse and tens of millions of Americans would be unemployed. An atatck on a member of the Arab League could result in cancellation of billions of dollars of orders for US built hard goods such as Boeing aircraft, equipment & Machinery and perhaps even an oil embargo.