The Hotbutton Racism Thread

[samran]

To me, the OP has made a perfectly valid point, and held up a mirror to some of the general discourse on this thread.

Some people haven't taken it very well, obviously used to being the ones putting others (sometimes whole nationalities) in the spotlight, rather unfairly.

To me, that reaction seems to have boiled down to 'what me, I can't have been a racist - I like brown birds. It can't be that I'm simply experiencing the frustrations and paranoia that can come with being an immigrant to a new country, given that immigrants are dirty scum, and I'm certainly not one of those leechers. I'm an EXPAT!!'

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

I still don't understand why people get upset by generalisations. They are not personal, they may be derogatory, but they are so far from being definite in most peoples mind. Sure you get a few people that are real racist, Kkk, etc. But for most of us they are nothing more than flippant comments.

French are rude, Americans are loud mouth, Thai's are stupid, English are violent piss heads, Scots are cheap charlies, Kiwis are sheep sha66ers, Germans are obnoxious. If you belong to any of these nationalities, does it really upset you to hear it?

If people have a bad view of my race or nationality, I don't find it personally offensive. Am I just thick skinned and stupid or is my understanding of it all a bit warped?

Agreed but if you personally are a German and for this reason and not for reason of your behavior you are treated as or called obnoxious then that would be racism.

[hookedondhamma]

Racism is shit. End of. No matter where it is in the world. It should not be tolerated.

That's all I have to say.

This thread is not going to go anywhere in my opinion.

Racism is shit. End of. No matter where it is in the world. It should not be tolerated.

That's all I have to say.

This thread is not going to go anywhere in my opinion.

It has not been going anywhere from its start.

It has too many sides to it. Westerners who aren't thai who experience this 'racism,' thais who say it doesn't exist but wouldn't be subject to it if it did, the people in between who have never seen it and want to chime in, etc., and those on both sides who clearly have a hatred for the other side.

Sure brings alot of stuff into the open though. But this is thailand, so nothing will get done about it. Mai bpen rai.

[hookedondhamma]

So you were a guest in the US, (possibly became a citizen or was born as one by an immigrant, and that is a point in itself), took benefit from all the things you were entitled to; free schooling, govt. assistance, tax returns etc.

Now it seems you are using the best thing America taught you; that is is not only ok but right and just to express your opinion freely; you are using that right to advocate limiting the free speech of others because you don't like or agree with what they are saying.

When you grew up in the US, how many times did your family complain about things, or criticize a politician etc.?

You can't have it both ways; I think one of the things people complain about is the double standard attitude you get here, of which you seem to be promoting.

Don't forget the negative comments about asian mens ding dongs. I see rude racist comments on this forum and hear racist comments towards asians in every Western country I've been too......

Is this what you mean?

www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/584329-thai-police-applicants-told-they-cannot-have-genital-implants/

I thought it was a bit rude.

lol, you naughty boy. Kan hoo rueh?

[TommoPhysicist]

I'm still having problems understanding how you can be racist against Thais, when Thai isn't a race.

Sort of a Chinese/Indian/Malay mix. With skin colouring varying from whiter than westerners to as black as an African.

[ttthailand]

Racism is shit. End of. No matter where it is in the world. It should not be tolerated.

That's all I have to say.

This thread is not going to go anywhere in my opinion.

Racism is shit. End of. No matter where it is in the world. It should not be tolerated.

That's all I have to say.

This thread is not going to go anywhere in my opinion.

It has not been going anywhere from its start.

It has too many sides to it. Westerners who aren't thai who experience this 'racism,' thais who say it doesn't exist but wouldn't be subject to it if it did, the people in between who have never seen it and want to chime in, etc., and those on both sides who clearly have a hatred for the other side.

Sure brings alot of stuff into the open though. But this is thailand, so nothing will get done about it. Mai bpen rai.

When you say " But this is Thailand" it could be thought of as a form of racism. hahaha

Why do people think that every time someone states something negative about someone from another country that it is racism ??? What ever happened to telling it like it is and how we see it.... we make up our minds based on our experiences. Do we have to only speak good and have to hold in are negative comments. How do people learn and how do things change it we never speak our minds. One word comes to mind ....Sheep .....

[hookedondhamma]

Racism is shit. End of. No matter where it is in the world. It should not be tolerated.

That's all I have to say.

This thread is not going to go anywhere in my opinion.

It has not been going anywhere from its start.

It has too many sides to it. Westerners who aren't thai who experience this 'racism,' thais who say it doesn't exist but wouldn't be subject to it if it did, the people in between who have never seen it and want to chime in, etc., and those on both sides who clearly have a hatred for the other side.

Sure brings alot of stuff into the open though. But this is thailand, so nothing will get done about it. Mai bpen rai.

When you say " But this is Thailand" it could be thought of as a form of racism. hahaha

Why do people think that every time someone states something negative about someone from another country that it is racism ??? What ever happened to telling it like it is and how we see it.... we make up our minds based on our experiences. Do we have to only speak good and have to hold in are negative comments. How do people learn and how do things change it we never speak our minds. One word comes to mind ....Sheep .....

Have you read through this entire thread, as well as the one that may have prompted it?

[chiangmaikelly]

Racism is shit. End of. No matter where it is in the world. It should not be tolerated.

That's all I have to say.

This thread is not going to go anywhere in my opinion.

Racism is shit. End of. No matter where it is in the world. It should not be tolerated.

That's all I have to say.

This thread is not going to go anywhere in my opinion.

It has not been going anywhere from its start.

It has too many sides to it. Westerners who aren't thai who experience this 'racism,' thais who say it doesn't exist but wouldn't be subject to it if it did, the people in between who have never seen it and want to chime in, etc., and those on both sides who clearly have a hatred for the other side.

Sure brings alot of stuff into the open though. But this is thailand, so nothing will get done about it. Mai bpen rai.

When you say " But this is Thailand" it could be thought of as a form of racism. hahaha

Why do people think that every time someone states something negative about someone from another country that it is racism ??? What ever happened to telling it like it is and how we see it.... we make up our minds based on our experiences. Do we have to only speak good and have to hold in are negative comments. How do people learn and how do things change it we never speak our minds. One word comes to mind ....Sheep .....

I read a lot of posts here look at this one, "You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a professionally run armed forces and the Thai one. Conscription into a professional organisation that offers all the modern day benefits of an education, career and future, against Dad's army trained by the 3 stooges littered with corruption. Up to you."

The above is a typical post. No one said anything about it. The criticism is relentless and constant and in a large proportion of threads. When anything is said the posters call for the thread to be closed. If all the racist anti Thai posts were reported the mods would have no time to do anything else.

[TommoPhysicist]

I read a lot of posts here look at this one, "You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a professionally run armed forces and the Thai one. Conscription into a professional organisation that offers all the modern day benefits of an education, career and future, against Dad's army trained by the 3 stooges littered with corruption. Up to you."

The above is a typical post. No one said anything about it. The criticism is relentless and constant and in a large proportion of threads. When anything is said the posters call for the thread to be closed. If all the racist anti Thai posts were reported the mods would have no time to do anything else.

Can you link to that post, I haven't seen it anywhere?

(and Thais still aren't a race, shouldn't the complaint be about anti-Thai posts)

[ThailandMysteries]

I'm still having problems understanding how you can be racist against Thais, when Thai isn't a race.

Sort of a Chinese/Indian/Malay mix. With skin colouring varying from whiter than westerners to as black as an African.

This is a quote from somewhere else:

I have no time to get into details, but the Siamese state of the last 100 odd yrs changed everything. Assimilation became the buzzword. The old vassalage framework was destroyed. Periphery states were absorbed and repressed. Phibun Songkhram and his Thai Ratthaniyom policy of the 1930s sealed the country's fate. Everyone and his uncle were forced to become a clone of the T'ai of the Chao Phraya basin. The proud natives of Korat, Isaan and Lanna became Thai Isaan and Thai Yuan; the hill people became Khon Thai / Chaw Kaw; the Moken became Thai Mai; and of course, the southern Malays became "Thai Muslims."

Siam was renamed Prathet Thai (ประเทศไทย) or Thailand. Thai (ไทย), meaning “free” is a play of the homonym for the T’ai (ไท) ethnic group, which in its various incarnations made up the majority of Siam’s population. Hence, Thailand means Land of the Free, but metaphorically it is the Land of the T’ais. Phibun was bent on creating a homogenized, socially cohesive populace in a unitary state guided by Central Chao Phraya T’ai culture and Theravada Buddhism. This quest for racial and cultural purity subsumed inhabitants of incorporated territories (Malays, Khmers, Lao, Shan, Mon) into the “Thai” ethno-cultural yolk and forcibly assimilated Thailand’s substantial immigrant Chinese population. Some of these ethno-social groups became subservient and were readily assimilated; others resist till this day.

Most damagingly, history was changed and the Thai people was lied to. Everything not conforming to the Chao Phraya T'ai mold was deleted and replaced with fairytales of superlative acts of heroism and territorial conquests by Krung Thep chieftains and rulers. The great Lanna Kingdom of King Mengrai became a footnote. The Patani Kingdom became an irritant, and must be erased from the face of the earth. Suddenly, most states of mainland SEA became Thai "colonies" and "vassals." Sultans, Rajas and Phrayas became "Governors." Resistance became "rebellion."

Hence, the average Thai of today really know nothing about Thai history (beyond whats concocted for school textbooks), let alone SEA history, and the role of the Siamese polities (Sukhothai, Lannathai, Ayutthaya,Thonburi, Krung Thep) in the bigger picture of regional history. When your mindset is "I owned everything from Nanchao to Temasek since eternity," then its difficult to converse intelligently.

[chiangmaikelly]

I'm still having problems understanding how you can be racist against Thais, when Thai isn't a race.

Sort of a Chinese/Indian/Malay mix. With skin colouring varying from whiter than westerners to as black as an African.

This is a quote from somewhere else:

I have no time to get into details, but the Siamese state of the last 100 odd yrs changed everything. Assimilation became the buzzword. The old vassalage framework was destroyed. Periphery states were absorbed and repressed. Phibun Songkhram and his Thai Ratthaniyom policy of the 1930s sealed the country's fate. Everyone and his uncle were forced to become a clone of the T'ai of the Chao Phraya basin. The proud natives of Korat, Isaan and Lanna became Thai Isaan and Thai Yuan; the hill people became Khon Thai / Chaw Kaw; the Moken became Thai Mai; and of course, the southern Malays became "Thai Muslims."

Siam was renamed Prathet Thai (ประเทศไทย) or Thailand. Thai (ไทย), meaning “free” is a play of the homonym for the T’ai (ไท) ethnic group, which in its various incarnations made up the majority of Siam’s population. Hence, Thailand means Land of the Free, but metaphorically it is the Land of the T’ais. Phibun was bent on creating a homogenized, socially cohesive populace in a unitary state guided by Central Chao Phraya T’ai culture and Theravada Buddhism. This quest for racial and cultural purity subsumed inhabitants of incorporated territories (Malays, Khmers, Lao, Shan, Mon) into the “Thai” ethno-cultural yolk and forcibly assimilated Thailand’s substantial immigrant Chinese population. Some of these ethno-social groups became subservient and were readily assimilated; others resist till this day.

Most damagingly, history was changed and the Thai people was lied to. Everything not conforming to the Chao Phraya T'ai mold was deleted and replaced with fairytales of superlative acts of heroism and territorial conquests by Krung Thep chieftains and rulers. The great Lanna Kingdom of King Mengrai became a footnote. The Patani Kingdom became an irritant, and must be erased from the face of the earth. Suddenly, most states of mainland SEA became Thai "colonies" and "vassals." Sultans, Rajas and Phrayas became "Governors." Resistance became "rebellion."

Hence, the average Thai of today really know nothing about Thai history (beyond whats concocted for school textbooks), let alone SEA history, and the role of the Siamese polities (Sukhothai, Lannathai, Ayutthaya,Thonburi, Krung Thep) in the bigger picture of regional history. When your mindset is "I owned everything from Nanchao to Temasek since eternity," then its difficult to converse intelligently.

The above is from skyscraper city.com

[hookedondhamma]

and the countdown begins.

[chiangmaikelly]

I read a lot of posts here look at this one, "You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a professionally run armed forces and the Thai one. Conscription into a professional organisation that offers all the modern day benefits of an education, career and future, against Dad's army trained by the 3 stooges littered with corruption. Up to you."

The above is a typical post. No one said anything about it. The criticism is relentless and constant and in a large proportion of threads. When anything is said the posters call for the thread to be closed. If all the racist anti Thai posts were reported the mods would have no time to do anything else.

Can you link to that post, I haven't seen it anywhere?

(and Thais still aren't a race, shouldn't the complaint be about anti-Thai posts)

I read a lot of posts here look at this one, "You seem to have trouble distinguishing between a professionally run armed forces and the Thai one. Conscription into a professional organisation that offers all the modern day benefits of an education, career and future, against Dad's army trained by the 3 stooges littered with corruption. Up to you."

The above is a typical post. No one said anything about it. The criticism is relentless and constant and in a large proportion of threads. When anything is said the posters call for the thread to be closed. If all the racist anti Thai posts were reported the mods would have no time to do anything else.

Can you link to that post, I haven't seen it anywhere?

(and Thais still aren't a race, shouldn't the complaint be about anti-Thai posts)

http://www.thaivisa....on/page__st__25

[TommoPhysicist]

Can you link to that post, I haven't seen it anywhere?

(and Thais still aren't a race, shouldn't the complaint be about anti-Thai posts)

http://www.thaivisa....on/page__st__25

Nope ......

[toybits]

Perhaps, but have you guys not heard of the term LIBEL or DEFAMATION? That could get you into trouble - especially in Thailand.

Freedom comes with responsibility. It does not give license to demean others.

You will certainly get counter argument from US TV members using the freedom of speech justification.

[TommoPhysicist]

Perhaps, but have you guys not heard of the term LIBEL or DEFAMATION? That could get you into trouble - especially in Thailand.

I think you have to actually name a person to fall into that trap. I only know the names of my immediate family, so am pretty safe.

[toybits]

Would you prefer to be called or referred to as a HONKY or perhaps GRINGO?

it might be because another Falang slighted them.

Yet you are the one using the derogatory racist term to describe all 'white foreigners'.

[maxme]

He himself made a bungle and have made no effort in making an apology while in the west god forbids we slipped even once , some of us could actually end up in court. Now is that because we are racists, the whole bunch of us, or is it because we have realized that generalization will give us nothing but grief?

Maxme, stop altering what actually occurred.

1. I never said I hate the British to Begin with:

I point out that there are alot of Brits here that I absolutely adore, and am friends with like Thaicbr, Bigbikebkk, BKKjames, and if you count the Scotts as British I adore eek, and theblether and smokie35 and whatnot. So I am not anti British per se. I am anti-the ones that think they are the lord of the plantation during colonial days, and we Thais are there little brown servants. That is what I hate.

2. I apologized in this thread if I had insulted the British, and I also apologized on the original thread:

Posted 2012-09-04 21:15:00

submaniac, on 2012-09-04 16:15:03, said:

As to 2dogz, I apologize to anyone who was mislead, it was not intentional. I apologize to any of our genuinely good regular TV posters who were caught in the crossfire. I apologize to theblether for dragging him into this. I apologize to cdnvic for having to clean up this thread. No further apologies will be forthcoming. If the individual who was on the flight is reading this, any other civilized human being would have just changed seats

so the issue is not me bungling things up. The issue is that I have spent five years listening to this stuff in quiet. I wrote the post so we can have it out in the open and that we can discuss our feelings of it. However you Maxme (which also was one of the people who were digging the original posts which I was taking issue with) and TommoPhysicist have been trying to stop the thread so that others do not have the ability to discuss their feelings on the racism on Thaivisa. That's all you do is try and prevent people from even expressing an opinion on the Thaivisa racism issue.

So why can't people feel free to have an open discussion about racism, without some racists coming to say we shouldn't talk about it and the thread should be closed? I do not want to "point fingers" so much as I want this behavior to stop, and the only way it will stop is by bringing to people's attention that it happens.

Trying to stop this thread... well that's your point of view but seems more like you're deflecting that you even jumped to the conclusion that I was a Brit and then went on that's how Brits are moments after your attack dog Berkshire tried to get a bite and failed.

No it's you who have fallen for your own dogma and twisted it into something it ain't. There are many people here who are ready to stand up against the racism against Thais but you deluded the initial idea or concept and that's where it all went wrong. If you stopped feeling so much inferior then people wouldn't look at you that way.

If you had been rational from the beginning you would have scored so much better than you have right now.

The problem is I do get you and I do agree with you on some points but you turned a couple of threads into wild goose-chases just so you can deflect criticism and if you want to have an open debate you demonstrate it poorly.

[TommoPhysicist]

@submaniac

Are you really 100% Thai?

You seem more American, I wonder if you ever attended Thai school?

[GuestHouse]

I'm still having problems understanding how you can be racist against Thais, when Thai isn't a race.

Sort of a Chinese/Indian/Malay mix. With skin colouring varying from whiter than westerners to as black as an African.

Your argument relies upon Racism only existing when abuse is directed against a distinct race and ignores the idea of abuse directed against people who are not of the same race as the person making the abusive remarks.

As I've suggested to another contributor making a similar fallacious argument, don't ever rely on that as your defence in a court of law. You'll be found guilty of both racism and idiocy (the two are often bedfellows).

[GuestHouse]

@submaniac

Are you really 100% Thai?

You seem more American, I wonder if you ever attended Thai school?

As a point of note a person could be 100% Thai and an American, the two are not mutually exclusive.

And what on earth has attending a Thai school got to do with anything?

[TommoPhysicist]

And what on earth has attending a Thai school got to do with anything?

You know.

[GuestHouse]

And what on earth has attending a Thai school got to do with anything?

You know.

No please, I don't know, explain to us why you think attending a Thai school is in anyway relevant to the point under discussion?

[TommoPhysicist]

And what on earth has attending a Thai school got to do with anything?

You know.

No please, I don't know, explain to us why you think attending a Thai school is in anyway relevant to the point under discussion?

Yes, you do.

[manarak]

The United Nations are to blame for the change of meaning of the word "racism".

From Wikipedia:

"According to the United Nations convention, there is no distinction between the terms racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination"

So it's acceptable to use the word racism when what's meant is ethnic discrimination, i.e. hate directed at a nation.

[GuestHouse]

Tommy I know you think you speak for us all. But really your insistence that you can see inside my head and tell me what I know is nonsense.

I have no idea why you think that attending a Thai school has anything to do with the point under discussion - I really would appreciate you telling us all what your line of thought is.

We can then judge it for ourselves.

[cdnmatt]

To be honest, if you think what's said on here about Thais is bad, then you should see what we say about our fellow countrymen. "fuc_ken lazy, welfare mooching <deleted>! fuc_k 'em, force them to grow their own wheat and rice, or don't eat at all", and loads worst.

Just remember, Westerners are generally more abrasive than Thais. It's just the way we are. From birth, the majority of us are taught to express ourselves and speak our mind. Whereas in Thailand, it's more of a "keep your opinion to yourself" culture. All in all, wouldn't worry about it as much as you are.

[manarak]

Tommy I know you think you speak for us all. But really your insistence that you can see inside my head and tell me what I know is nonsense.

I have no idea why you think that attending a Thai school has anything to do with the point under discussion - I really would appreciate you telling us all what your line of thought is.

We can then judge it for ourselves.

I understand that Tommo wants to know if OP is of Thai culture of not.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

The United Nations are to blame for the change of meaning of the word "racism".

From Wikipedia:

"According to the United Nations convention, there is no distinction between the terms racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination"

So it's acceptable to use the word racism when what's meant is ethnic discrimination, i.e. hate directed at a nation.

For the purpose of this thread it clearly means race, ethnicity, national identity or color.

[TommoPhysicist]

For the purpose of this thread it clearly means race, ethnicity, national identity or color.

I'm thinking submaniac's national (and cultural) identity is American.

I wondering if he can even speak, read and write Thai.