Living With Thai Husband In The City (Sorry It's Long!)

[swlondonmum]

Quite apart from the very real cultural differences between you and your husband I think a major stumbling block on the near horizon will be your sons' education. A good education - well, the best affordable - is the best gift a Parent can give any child ..... and you only have one chance at getting it right.

Even an Issan "Bi-lingual" programme will not prepare him for an overseas University place - and if you condemn him to the Thai University system he will definitely not thank you when he is older.

Patrick

Thanks - I obviously don't want to offend my husband and his friends/family 9and am obviously senstive when I speak about it) but it does seem that a lot of western people here return to their own country for their children's education. i think it's definitely a deal breaker for us and if he doesn't want to move back in a year or two I will have to seriously think about my options. For now it seems like he is fine about moving back (now the argument is over!) so I will worry about it if it happens and try to enjoy myself in the meantime!

[swlondonmum]

For your sons sake I think it would be best for all of you to return to the UK unless you can afford to send him private but take a look at the wealthy thais non of there kids do schooling in Thailand so that alone should tell you something. It sounds a bit like your husband has settled back into the thai way of life rather than the rat race of London and I can understand why but I think the missing point is that you both as adults need to think about your son, he has a far better chance of bettering himself if educated in the UK rather than Thailand he should be your number one priority if your husband does not think the same then I think it is time to call it a day he is only 28 you are 30 something do I need to say any more I wish you luck !!!!!!

Thanks - I've covered it in my other replies so won't repeat myself but thanks for the balanced opinions

[cmsally]

The education is a biggy, but you do have to put things in perspective. Its not the case that your children are going to be successful just because they are educated there. Mine are now "educated", well almost and I don't think I would have done anything differently, and that also stands for when comparing them to children of a similar age back in UK. Before making a decision on education you really want to take a good look and have a talk to people from all sorts of educational backgrounds and not just compare worst and best etc from any country.

[swlondonmum]

hi... im sure youve seen my super loooooooooong posts before so here's an other:

as ya'll know, i live on a kibbutz in israel so not in thailand and not in any city, however:

recently met an other older woman with a younger thai boyfriend (the one w/o visa at moment), and we met up first time this past monday holiday (jewish holiday); right away he and hubby were jabbering away, and i was joining in,and she kept bugging me to tell me what they werw saying and asking that we speak in a 'civilized' fashion, like salon conversations. i was wearing a paa sin since we were planning on beach picnic, and we had brought sticky rice and bbq, and the usual neccesities... but everything was sort of a combo of thai style and kibbutz style.

while discussing behavior patterns, the 'thai male' types came up often n the conversation. the guys like to do a lot of 'guy' stuff on their own, hubby is very very korat thai, no matter how long he's been in israel, and other thai men here married to israeli wives also seem to be very much still 'thai' with many behaviors that are very NOT israeli (drinking beer like water, which here is practically a sin; not planning too far in advance, changing plans at last minute w/o discussing with partner, not discussing feelings too much or at all, very much a boys together and women folk do their own thing style.) she says i generalize. however, she afterwards did see various things that did indeed match in her husband to what i had said.

i then asked her if she were willing ot move ever to his small t own in surin.

(she is an artist, world wide, and belongs to israeli bohemia circles, which may also be why she even went for something so exotic as a thai guy, mix marriages here being very difficult things). she said no way. she cant speak the language, isnt interested at all in thai culture, and feels that her husband can 'better himself'. my own impression, and that of hubby, is of a village guy from surin who is perfectly content to still be a village guy from surin living in israel. and fi they were to go to surin, he would be out and about with the guys from dawn to dusk, fishing and living village life. and she would be bored shitless and not enjoy the life.

btw, im sure hubby would do same ('regress to becoming a village thai guy). he does it here. but thats ok with me. it suits me. i have my own things to do, kids from previous are grown up, we had a rough winter last year, things seem to be improving with his learning my language, and also with him meeting other guys with 'farang wives' in the same boat (or hammock) as him to complain and whinge to... and our big problem was my not having kids by him (due to age, and franckly i chose to be resposible due to circumstances here being what they are about mixed marriages, visas, kibbutz life etc.) it seems to have been a mid life crisis thai style.

what im trying to say is, for many of these guys, it is jsut more comfortable easier and somewhat less 'responsibility' when they are in their own home village, since they have the extended family around, they dont have to 'try' to be a different culture (had hubbys' nong here for the three day holiday and my house looks like a thai shack in bannork issaan, kitchen in doors looks like the area around the thai outdoor kitchen, stuff tossed out the door in to the yard, ciggie stubs everywhere around the yard, everything sort of haplap (tossed around, piled up, dishes stacked in piles after being washed haphazardly) , peeing when he wanted to in the neighbor's rose bushes !! cause that is how he lives here also. hubby has learned various and sundry 'rules and regs' but gripes that htere is no 'issalat' here (no freedom to do what he wants wehn he wants how he wants.')

i suspect your husband feels the same.

im ramblign and lost my thread of thought... however the main point was: people go back home and behave the same as before they left home.that is why many of us dont go back home. to not fall in to same behavior pattersn (for good or bad)... your choices really are : go back alone, and try doing the half year here half year there thing (i cant swing that , no money); find other ex pat women in same situation and meet up (like i am doing for hubby here, and it helps him understand me also when they compare notes) so he can also meet up with otehrs in similar situation; find out why he really doesnt want to go back (afraid that ends cant meet and too much responsibility on his shoulders? my husband thinks taking care of me is a main priority and it put a lot of pressure on hm last year,he felt it was 'too much' responsibility even...;

now your husband is in his comfort zone, even if u up and left im not sure it would affect him the same as if it were to happen overseas, so maybe u both have to move away from home, but stay a while in thailand?

sorry, too much rambling while eating a thai taco... but maybe some food for thought...

btw, have managed to find four women with thai husbands that now we can meet up and do bbq and whinge ) and compare notes, i cant tell you how much that helps put htings in persepctive (since we dont have the same situations as others in european cities, here there are no thais anywhere accept for immigrant labourers, no wats, no thai meet ups that dont involve vodka and fights, and israeli only couples dont have the problems we have, both interculturally and intraculturally)...

maybe u should just go away for a week with the child , inside thailand, maybe to one of the expat women here, even , to get away, reaccess, and let hubby get a wake up signal...

bina

israel

Hi bina, yes I have enjoyed reading through your long posts when I've had a look through the forum! I think our problem was just our way of arguing/communicating - it's one of our biggest problems as most of the other cultural differences we get around without too many problems. Given that people seem to say that Thai guys are not great communicators he's not too bad and will tak things though - but he has a limit (like most guys) and I try to compromise as well by not going on too much. I think that's why I'm missing my girlfriends - he probably gets more of the negative stuff cos I've got no-one else to speak about it to. But since posting this I've made an effort to seek out any western girls in our city and there are rumours that there are a few around so that may help a bit. Hopeful;ly a bit of compromise from both of us will help

[swlondonmum]

we had a similar situation when our son was first born & we came over for a long visit, he reverted back to our pre child days, mates round, lots of booze, staying up all night at the house with his mates over. I left him to it for a couple of days but then put a stop to it, reminded him he was a dad now & there was a time & place but all the time wasn't acceptable. he got stroppy about it so I made it clear that sitting around taking care of baby whilst he got pissed with his mates wasn't an option for me. He got the message & after a couple of nights of living it up with his mates went back to normal mode & we've never had the argument since. The difference maybe is he was in his late 30's & he had lived a lot through his 20's & 30's so realised that socialising with his mates, as fun as it may be, was no substitue for his family.

I don't really buy into the whole thai thing, he is your husband so if you are having issues then it's up to you to let him know what YOU will put up with, then the choice is in his lap. You are his wife & have a say on how your life is lived so my advice is if things are really getting that bad then talk with him & make firm plans to move on if nothing changes within a reasonable timeframe. Is there an option to move somewhere more central, is there a reason you are sticking to his home town?

As for in laws interferring with your child raising, I have no compunction to being a major bitch if people are trying to disrespect me in relation to my child, my job is to make sure he is well & safe, if I upset someone in the process I really don't care

That said, I love my in laws & they are nothing but helpful & kind & love my son but some of the ideas esp about bedtimes & sweet food limits do not mesh with mine & that's when I put my foot down but in general we have no problems.

One of the reasons we haven't moved back to thaialnd full time is our son. Money, when you are just a couple is less important than when a kid/s is involved. We would both move back tomorrow, to Issan where I want to live, but lack of money & job prospects keeps us in london, of course mr boo would prefer to be near his friends & family but he will stay in UK for as long as it takes, even forever is it is to the benefit of our son & that is how it should be.

It could be that your husband is just enjoying being home a bit too much but if he is not listening to you & what you & your son need & especially if you are building debt by staying in thailand, then a serious conversation about your future as a family

unit needs to be had.

Good luck with whatever happens & welome to the forum.

yeah I think that's exactly what he's doing - he's been in the UK for 7 years and didn't come back for over 3 years before we moved here (long story but nightmare with our business which we luckily sold - he worked hard for a long time with no money and no chance of coming back home). It's not surprising he wants to come and have an extended holiday here!! He's settled into going out with his friends once or twice a week which is fine - a few of his friends are married with kids now and are also not out every night so it's not really a problem. In fact i think coming back has helped - when he left Thailand he was 21 and all his friends were out drinking every night and not working - now he has come back and most of them are working really hard, some married with kids etc etc and he can see that they have moved on too.

I have been putting my foot down with some of the issues I feel strongly about (all to do with our son - carseats/junk food/hours of iphone games) and to be fair he has mostly supported me with this - which must be hard when most of your family don't agree. At least they can just put it down to me being one of those strange farangs!!

Anyway I think things are resolved for now - obviously if he doesn't want to move back in the next year or two then I'll have to think about what to do. I have repeated myself a lot in my replies but I think I just need to settle in a bit and enjoy myself while we're here - he just wants to see me happy here as well.

Might PM you when I have more time to chat about where you are in the UK etc etc

Thanks for the welcome and the advice

[SOTIRIOS]

...it sounds like he has planned his future and it does not include you...

....I hope the debts are not only in your name....if you are a U.K. citizen and he is not, though...you will still have to 'foot the bill' alone....

(....also...whatever might be acquired here would only belong to him....I think...)

[noob7]

(....also...whatever might be acquired here would only belong to him....I think...)

As long OP isn't selling the UK-house, to buy one family home here,......!

But I better not write, what I assume, her husband may be up to, sooner or later.

b/c 'things that are not allowed are not possible'

Edited September 23, 2012 by noob7

[bina]

ugh... to the OP... ingnore the two not so well-wishers...

some problems are just 'men' problems, some are cultural problems, and some are cross cultural misunderstandings; and some are just due to age and circumstance. children add lots of stress to any relationship ...

bina

[swlondonmum]

A fair bit depends on what you're qualified to do vs what you can do legally here. Just from reading it seems like you're trying to resuscitate your life so it seems strange to rush back to something comfortable and known on the assumption that you'll find work and be the couple you were. No problem going to the UK (if that's what's needed) but the mentality is wrong - always strive to move forwards. The UK should be a next step not a backwards regression.

Did you honestly commit to being here with him beyond getting on the plane? I don't see it in the snapshot you've given us (i appreciate the need to summarise) so genuinely would like you to have a long hard look and think about that. Is it possible that you've been overwhelmed by taking on too much change, ie city to country, west to east, familiar support group to non familiar and are now dealing with it in a collective Thailand bad, UK good way rather than addressing individual sectors and managing them as part of a time line?

Education.

I have no problem sending my toddler to a very respected bilingual school but then I'm comforted with the level of education in both our language, morals, etiquette and culture from home plus once she has that secure grounding and foundation it will be off to either UK or Australia where we have family for "finishing". That said we plan on being here rather than UK for retirement.

Grandparents.

Once it got to a certain point I told the grandparents that I love the love but dislike the lack of structure. If they cannot accept she is a child of 2 cultures then I will find, train and pay for a nanny who will. I think the idea of paying unnecessary money to a stranger was more abhorrent than anything else. Just because their culture doesn't have a NO doesn't mean they get to act spoilt.

Husband.

Husband training isn't that hard and I can't give away man secrets but c'mon we're completely less complicated than we like to think. We're pretty much part child, part pet, part idiot and part hero. Play with us, stroke us, be patient in educating us and give us heroic tasks to perform - Ok I'm semi joking as everyone is different and a couple is different squared! Take him away from the environment and have The Talk.

Financial.

No easy answer here but maybe working somewhere more touristy may help. Phuket, Pattaya, Bangkok, Chiang Mai all have international schools and support networks of maids, nannies etc. Find a job then work out if you're moving alone and commuting weekends or he comes and finds work too. Let him know that you're looking out of courtesy and fairness.

On a tablet so can't scroll back and check your post but understand there are no judgements in my post, I'm just trying to offer an alternative perspective which I hope was helpful.

Sent from Android, please excuse errors in type or judgement.

I wrote a nice long reply to this yesterday but then lost it all so I'll have another go

Anyway your point about not being committed beyond buying a plane ticket was pretty accurate, much as i hate to admit it! After 6 months here reality started to hit a bit (no western girl friends here etc etc ) and things were going a bit slowly on the house/business front. So I had pretty much been planning a date to go home and counting down the days. After the argument was over my husband said that he just didn't want to think about going home just yet - after only 6 months when we had said we'd stay 1-2 years. He could move back to the UK with 2-3 days' notice whereas I would plan it for 6 months! I just wanted to hear that we would go home at some point in the next year or two (particularly if things don't work out financially) so I could relax a bit (I was a bit worried about living here for a few years then him not wanting to go back so I'd feel I'd wasted my time and should have gone back by myself earlier). To be honest I don't think either of us were massively wrong and our plans are not mutually exclusive - I'm pretty sure we can find an overlap where we are both happy to go back. If not I will cross that bridge when I come to it but in the meantime my life will be a whole lot better if I enjoy it rather than count down the days!

Re your other points, most people seem to have said that they will return to their countries for schooling when the kids get a bit older. That was one of my main concerns - whether I was being fair to think that this was a very good reason to return to the UK - and people's responses have mainly confirmed that. I am careful when I speak about this (either to my husband or his family) as it is obviously not nice to say 'we;re going to go back as your schools are terrible'!! re grandparents/family I don't have too many problems - they know the kids carseat is 100% non negotiable and they understand that I don't want to give our son snacks/chocolate milk before dinner but am happy for the odd snack at other times - same goes for late nights (fine at weekends/not usually on schoolnights) and a few other things.I'm sure sometimes they think I'm that crazy western woman but there is a mutual respect - I'm always polite when I speak about such things and sometimes they seem to even be happy that we are influencing my son's cousin in a positive healthy way (he's 3 and just had a tooth pulled out due to too much junk and not much teeth brushing).

Re work, living apart is not an option - I trust him while we're together (despite what some people think about Thai men and fidelity!) but think that being apart would put more temptation - not just for him but who knows, possibly for me too. I'm not saying either of us would cheat but neither of us want to live apart. If we can't make enough money here, that's even more reason to go back (even he has said that since the argument finished).

Finally the husband training - he's not too bad given that most people seem to say Thai guys are not great at having 'the talk' - don't know if that is true but he's fine with that in moderation - just doesn't want chat about every detail of everything every day probably like most guys so that's not necessarily the cultural difference. Some problems are cultural, some are just male/female problems!!

Cheers anyway - a good reminder why a guy's opinion can be helpful as well (I'm assuming you are a guy)

[swlondonmum]

I was told by native Thai speakers that you could use both eg ไม่ครับ and ไมเอาครับ

A couple of examples from .thai-language.com:

ไม่ครับ ผมเพิ่งกินข้าวมาเมื่อกี้นี้เอง - No, thanks. I just ate a little while ago.

ไม่ครับขอบคุณ ผมเพิ่งจะกินข้าวเมื่อกี้นี้เอง อิ่มมาก - No, thanks. I just finish eating a moment ago

http://www.thai-language.com/id/131129

[apologies to the OP for derailing the thread!].

You're all wrong, since the OP talks about living in Isaan, the correct term is บ่แม่น

And to be honest i find a straighforward "no" works well too whatever language I am speaking!

[2unique]

A fair bit depends on what you're qualified to do vs what you can do legally here. Just from reading it seems like you're trying to resuscitate your life so it seems strange to rush back to something comfortable and known on the assumption that you'll find work and be the couple you were. No problem going to the UK (if that's what's needed) but the mentality is wrong - always strive to move forwards. The UK should be a next step not a backwards regression.

Did you honestly commit to being here with him beyond getting on the plane? I don't see it in the snapshot you've given us (i appreciate the need to summarise) so genuinely would like you to have a long hard look and think about that. Is it possible that you've been overwhelmed by taking on too much change, ie city to country, west to east, familiar support group to non familiar and are now dealing with it in a collective Thailand bad, UK good way rather than addressing individual sectors and managing them as part of a time line?

Education.

I have no problem sending my toddler to a very respected bilingual school but then I'm comforted with the level of education in both our language, morals, etiquette and culture from home plus once she has that secure grounding and foundation it will be off to either UK or Australia where we have family for "finishing". That said we plan on being here rather than UK for retirement.

Grandparents.

Once it got to a certain point I told the grandparents that I love the love but dislike the lack of structure. If they cannot accept she is a child of 2 cultures then I will find, train and pay for a nanny who will. I think the idea of paying unnecessary money to a stranger was more abhorrent than anything else. Just because their culture doesn't have a NO doesn't mean they get to act spoilt.

Husband.

Husband training isn't that hard and I can't give away man secrets but c'mon we're completely less complicated than we like to think. We're pretty much part child, part pet, part idiot and part hero. Play with us, stroke us, be patient in educating us and give us heroic tasks to perform - Ok I'm semi joking as everyone is different and a couple is different squared! Take him away from the environment and have The Talk.

Financial.

No easy answer here but maybe working somewhere more touristy may help. Phuket, Pattaya, Bangkok, Chiang Mai all have international schools and support networks of maids, nannies etc. Find a job then work out if you're moving alone and commuting weekends or he comes and finds work too. Let him know that you're looking out of courtesy and fairness.

On a tablet so can't scroll back and check your post but understand there are no judgements in my post, I'm just trying to offer an alternative perspective which I hope was helpful.

Sent from Android, please excuse errors in type or judgement.

I wrote a nice long reply to this yesterday but then lost it all so I'll have another go

Anyway your point about not being committed beyond buying a plane ticket was pretty accurate, much as i hate to admit it! After 6 months here reality started to hit a bit (no western girl friends here etc etc ) and things were going a bit slowly on the house/business front. So I had pretty much been planning a date to go home and counting down the days. After the argument was over my husband said that he just didn't want to think about going home just yet - after only 6 months when we had said we'd stay 1-2 years. He could move back to the UK with 2-3 days' notice whereas I would plan it for 6 months! I just wanted to hear that we would go home at some point in the next year or two (particularly if things don't work out financially) so I could relax a bit (I was a bit worried about living here for a few years then him not wanting to go back so I'd feel I'd wasted my time and should have gone back by myself earlier). To be honest I don't think either of us were massively wrong and our plans are not mutually exclusive - I'm pretty sure we can find an overlap where we are both happy to go back. If not I will cross that bridge when I come to it but in the meantime my life will be a whole lot better if I enjoy it rather than count down the days!

Re your other points, most people seem to have said that they will return to their countries for schooling when the kids get a bit older. That was one of my main concerns - whether I was being fair to think that this was a very good reason to return to the UK - and people's responses have mainly confirmed that. I am careful when I speak about this (either to my husband or his family) as it is obviously not nice to say 'we;re going to go back as your schools are terrible'!! re grandparents/family I don't have too many problems - they know the kids carseat is 100% non negotiable and they understand that I don't want to give our son snacks/chocolate milk before dinner but am happy for the odd snack at other times - same goes for late nights (fine at weekends/not usually on schoolnights) and a few other things.I'm sure sometimes they think I'm that crazy western woman but there is a mutual respect - I'm always polite when I speak about such things and sometimes they seem to even be happy that we are influencing my son's cousin in a positive healthy way (he's 3 and just had a tooth pulled out due to too much junk and not much teeth brushing).

Re work, living apart is not an option - I trust him while we're together (despite what some people think about Thai men and fidelity!) but think that being apart would put more temptation - not just for him but who knows, possibly for me too. I'm not saying either of us would cheat but neither of us want to live apart. If we can't make enough money here, that's even more reason to go back (even he has said that since the argument finished).

Finally the husband training - he's not too bad given that most people seem to say Thai guys are not great at having 'the talk' - don't know if that is true but he's fine with that in moderation - just doesn't want chat about every detail of everything every day probably like most guys so that's not necessarily the cultural difference. Some problems are cultural, some are just male/female problems!!

Cheers anyway - a good reminder why a guy's opinion can be helpful as well (I'm assuming you are a guy)

Running to a meeting but yup a guy but grew up in a house of just mum and 2 sisters so have a lot of respect and time for you lot :-P

Also most women on forums don't have that need to kill/destroy others for their posts in the same way a lot of men do so it's easier to write hard "truths" as a point of discussion.

Sent from Android, please excuse errors in type or judgement.

[swlondonmum]

...it sounds like he has planned his future and it does not include you...

....I hope the debts are not only in your name....if you are a U.K. citizen and he is not, though...you will still have to 'foot the bill' alone....

(....also...whatever might be acquired here would only belong to him....I think...)

UK house is in my name only (he was still on spouse visa when we bought it). I bought it 13 years ago and he has been contributing half towards the mortgage since we moved in together over 6 years ago. He is a UK citizen now.

Thai house which we have just bought is in his name (as it can't be in mine) but that's fine for me as basically it's a load of debt.

We have discussed what would happen if we split and now we have the house here we would probably just each take the house in our own country. Obviously you never know if a split would be acrimonious but it would take a lot of effort and money for a solicitor to possibly decide any different so it's hard to see any other pragmatic solution..

We have some credit card debt in the UK from moving here but not a massive amount - he is also applying for one here (had to wait a bit as we've only just been here 6 months) - doesn't have a problem having debt in his name!!

If he was after me for money he would have been gone a long time ago! His family are all comfortable now (when we first met most of them were worse off but never asked for money - he never even sent his mum any money from the UK which is pretty unusual for Thais) and have lent us money since we've been here (mostly his mum)

Edited September 24, 2012 by swlondonmum

[swlondonmum]

(....also...whatever might be acquired here would only belong to him....I think...)

As long OP isn't selling the UK-house, to buy one family home here,......!

But I better not write, what I assume, her husband may be up to, sooner or later.

b/c 'things that are not allowed are not possible'

I can't think of any reason why I would sell my house in the UK to buy one here that I can't own. Especially given that I have a young child. That would be really stupid wouldn't it??

I don't know if you are referring to me or other people who have replied to you when you say that 'things that are not allowed are not possible' but anything is possible but everything has a different likelihood of happening and I can make a reasonable judgement based on how well I know my husband. I am not naive or complacent and don't assume that my husband would never cheat but obviously anyone with a partner has to have some level of trust otherwise I would never let him leave the house! I obviously keep my eye on what he's up to (or as you would probably say 'what he says he's up to') and it helps that my Thai is not bad but as yet I don't have any evidence that he has ever cheated. If I am wrong at some point in the future then I will happily admit I was wrong but I don't see the point in worrying about something I have no concrete reason to worry about other than being told that 'all Thai men cheat'.

[noob7]

(....also...whatever might be acquired here would only belong to him....I think...)

As long OP isn't selling the UK-house, to buy one family home here,......!

But I better not write, what I assume, her husband may be up to, sooner or later.

b/c 'things that are not allowed are not possible'

I can't think of any reason why I would sell my house in the UK to buy one here that I can't own. Especially given that I have a young child. That would be really stupid wouldn't it??

I don't know if you are referring to me or other people who have replied to you when you say that 'things that are not allowed are not possible' but anything is possible but everything has a different likelihood of happening and I can make a reasonable judgement based on how well I know my husband. I am not naive or complacent and don't assume that my husband would never cheat but obviously anyone with a partner has to have some level of trust otherwise I would never let him leave the house! I obviously keep my eye on what he's up to (or as you would probably say 'what he says he's up to') and it helps that my Thai is not bad but as yet I don't have any evidence that he has ever cheated. If I am wrong at some point in the future then I will happily admit I was wrong but I don't see the point in worrying about something I have no concrete reason to worry about other than being told that 'all Thai men cheat'.

Hopefully you are the lucky one and right with it!

As you wrote in another comment, he has the credit card and the debt; You are married, to him aren't you? And have been, when he got it, right?

And if no one ever told you, that you for sure can own the house and he the land, is probably only no knowledge about this fact.

Also there is a good chance, that your kid can be 'the one'. I think, he can become Thai, if he not isn't already. I mean, by law in this case.

Actually, if he has the land/house in his name, probably your status isn't legalized in Thailand, isn't it?

Or did you do a lot of paperwork, to assure, he bought the house in his name and you'll never ask for your (legal) share, if divorced?

The idea with UK/yours, Thai/his isn't bad, but do the needed paperwork, to make sure, it stays, like it is in your minds, now!

The economics is bad, you know?

And that you being told 'all Thai men cheat' has maybe a simple reason: The sex drive of the man, in this country, is seen as uncontrollable.

Even most non Thai males turn into this behavior!

The worldwide known (but not officially seen) prostitution in Thailand didn't get invented by the GI's, 40 years ago, in Pattaya.

They only centralized a well established social function in an area with a military airport, as kind of a recreational camp for the GI's.

And the price, for a Thai man, in every rural area, is =/less than 200 baht.

How I know? I got invited, a couple of times, from 'friends' in the group, to come with 'em.

But refused, b/c cheating is in this part of the business the littlest problem, not only for the wife!

Never the less, I do not wish any lady in any country a cheating/advantage seeking husband/boyfriend.

But in this country, I always never hear about, that this isn't the case. And when I heart about, it changed always after a little while.

It's not only the girls, it's the community! And denying it, isnm't changing it. It's only adopting the Thai way!

Good luck, for you and your kid!

Edited September 24, 2012 by noob7

[cmsally]

There seem to be a lot of doom and gloomers on this subject. Doesn't always have to be like that you know. I've been married to my husband for 24 yrs, neither of us cheated. I've also got a house in UK in my name but just because never made sense to sell it as its very rentable.

Not quite sure if we are getting male or female points of view here, but hopefully mine is obvious from name.

[swlondonmum]

(....also...whatever might be acquired here would only belong to him....I think...)

As long OP isn't selling the UK-house, to buy one family home here,......!

But I better not write, what I assume, her husband may be up to, sooner or later.

b/c 'things that are not allowed are not possible'

I can't think of any reason why I would sell my house in the UK to buy one here that I can't own. Especially given that I have a young child. That would be really stupid wouldn't it??

I don't know if you are referring to me or other people who have replied to you when you say that 'things that are not allowed are not possible' but anything is possible but everything has a different likelihood of happening and I can make a reasonable judgement based on how well I know my husband. I am not naive or complacent and don't assume that my husband would never cheat but obviously anyone with a partner has to have some level of trust otherwise I would never let him leave the house! I obviously keep my eye on what he's up to (or as you would probably say 'what he says he's up to') and it helps that my Thai is not bad but as yet I don't have any evidence that he has ever cheated. If I am wrong at some point in the future then I will happily admit I was wrong but I don't see the point in worrying about something I have no concrete reason to worry about other than being told that 'all Thai men cheat'.

Hopefully you are the lucky one and right with it!

As you wrote in another comment, he has the credit card and the debt; You are married, to him aren't you? And have been, when he got it, right?

And if no one ever told you, that you for sure can own the house and he the land, is probably only no knowledge about this fact.

Also there is a good chance, that your kid can be 'the one'. I think, he can become Thai, if he not isn't already. I mean, by law in this case.

Actually, if he has the land/house in his name, probably your status isn't legalized in Thailand, isn't it?

Or did you do a lot of paperwork, to assure, he bought the house in his name and you'll never ask for your (legal) share, if divorced?

The idea with UK/yours, Thai/his isn't bad, but do the needed paperwork, to make sure, it stays, like it is in your minds, now!

The economics is bad, you know?

And that you being told 'all Thai men cheat' has maybe a simple reason: The sex drive of the man, in this country, is seen as uncontrollable.

Even most non Thai males turn into this behavior!

The worldwide known (but not officially seen) prostitution in Thailand didn't get invented by the GI's, 40 years ago, in Pattaya.

They only centralized a well established social function in an area with a military airport, as kind of a recreational camp for the GI's.

And the price, for a Thai man, in every rural area, is =/less than 200 baht.

How I know? I got invited, a couple of times, from 'friends' in the group, to come with 'em.

But refused, b/c cheating is in this part of the business the littlest problem, not only for the wife!

Never the less, I do not wish any lady in any country a cheating/advantage seeking husband/boyfriend.

But in this country, I always never hear about, that this isn't the case. And when I heart about, it changed always after a little while.

It's not only the girls, it's the community! And denying it, isnm't changing it. It's only adopting the Thai way!

Good luck, for you and your kid!

Thanks - it's a bit hard to understand some of the points you made but I don't think I have taken a crazy risk from a financial point of view. And I am just being realistic that at this point in time I don't have any claim on the house - no problem. I've got a 1 year visa. My name is on the documentation for the house but I can;t own it so don't really have a problem with it being in his name. Yes it would be a good idea at some point to get an international document drawn up to state our wishes - buying a house here has obviously changed our situation a bit so it would make sense to do it now that 'we' have bought it.

I'm not sure what you mean about my son being 'the one' - do you mean a superstar? Well I'm his mum so of course I think he's adorable but he's only 4 and there are plenty of other good looking kids out there - it's not something we've looked into. He has Thai and British passports.

We aren't in a rural area, we are in a big city in Isaan. I don't think my husband would get out of (or into) bed for 200baht

Edited September 24, 2012 by swlondonmum

[noob7]

As long OP isn't selling the UK-house, to buy one family home here,......!

But I better not write, what I assume, her husband may be up to, sooner or later.

b/c 'things that are not allowed are not possible'

I can't think of any reason why I would sell my house in the UK to buy one here that I can't own. Especially given that I have a young child. That would be really stupid wouldn't it??

I don't know if you are referring to me or other people who have replied to you when you say that 'things that are not allowed are not possible' but anything is possible but everything has a different likelihood of happening and I can make a reasonable judgement based on how well I know my husband. I am not naive or complacent and don't assume that my husband would never cheat but obviously anyone with a partner has to have some level of trust otherwise I would never let him leave the house! I obviously keep my eye on what he's up to (or as you would probably say 'what he says he's up to') and it helps that my Thai is not bad but as yet I don't have any evidence that he has ever cheated. If I am wrong at some point in the future then I will happily admit I was wrong but I don't see the point in worrying about something I have no concrete reason to worry about other than being told that 'all Thai men cheat'.

Hopefully you are the lucky one and right with it!

As you wrote in another comment, he has the credit card and the debt; You are married, to him aren't you? And have been, when he got it, right?

And if no one ever told you, that you for sure can own the house and he the land, is probably only no knowledge about this fact.

Also there is a good chance, that your kid can be 'the one'. I think, he can become Thai, if he not isn't already. I mean, by law in this case.

Actually, if he has the land/house in his name, probably your status isn't legalized in Thailand, isn't it?

Or did you do a lot of paperwork, to assure, he bought the house in his name and you'll never ask for your (legal) share, if divorced?

The idea with UK/yours, Thai/his isn't bad, but do the needed paperwork, to make sure, it stays, like it is in your minds, now!

The economics is bad, you know?

And that you being told 'all Thai men cheat' has maybe a simple reason: The sex drive of the man, in this country, is seen as uncontrollable.

Even most non Thai males turn into this behavior!

The worldwide known (but not officially seen) prostitution in Thailand didn't get invented by the GI's, 40 years ago, in Pattaya.

They only centralized a well established social function in an area with a military airport, as kind of a recreational camp for the GI's.

And the price, for a Thai man, in every rural area, is =/less than 200 baht.

How I know? I got invited, a couple of times, from 'friends' in the group, to come with 'em.

But refused, b/c cheating is in this part of the business the littlest problem, not only for the wife!

Never the less, I do not wish any lady in any country a cheating/advantage seeking husband/boyfriend.

But in this country, I always never hear about, that this isn't the case. And when I heart about, it changed always after a little while.

It's not only the girls, it's the community! And denying it, isnm't changing it. It's only adopting the Thai way!

Good luck, for you and your kid!

Thanks - it's a bit hard to understand some of the points you made but I don't think I have taken a crazy risk from a financial point of view. And I am just being realistic that at this point in time I don't have any claim on the house - no problem. I've got a 1 year visa. My name is on the documentation for the house but I can;t own it so don't really have a problem with it being in his name. Yes it would be a good idea at some point to get an international document drawn up to state our wishes - buying a house here has obviously changed our situation a bit so it would make sense to do it now that 'we' have bought it.

I'm not sure what you mean about my son being 'the one' - do you mean a superstar? Well I'm his mum so of course I think he's adorable but he's only 4 and there are plenty of other good looking kids out there - it's not something we've looked into. He has Thai and British passports.

We aren't in a rural area, we are in a big city in Isaan. I don't think my husband would get out of (or into) bed for 200baht

I tried Mr. Googles translator, but 'his' English is not really better, then.

Your son, if official Thai national, can own house and land

Your husband, if marriage isn't official, can buy house and land and own it.

If official married to a farang, you have to sign paperwork, that you confirm, all is his, no demands by you!

Because there is always a loophole, it can also be done, even if you gave the information to the Thai government, that you and he are married. Question: Can you read his Name in the house papers in Thai?

Land and house can be owned separately,

p.ex. The Thai owns the land, the farang can own the house with up2 30 years of right, to 'use' the land

Whatever, I like the idea, you mentioned, to make a legal contract, House in Thai is his, house in England is yours.

But make it legal in both countries! In Thailand it will be legal, as long it protects the Thai! You'll not get anything. Even if signed a Thai language contract (what is necessary, to make it legal! If not in Thai language, forget about it!), and you couldn't read it. But in UK/Europe 'sometimes' the law does not like, to outsmarts the people with the weaker position!

If everything goes well, for you and your family, it doesn't matter anyway.

If not, you still have, what you had, before you left the UK

Edited September 24, 2012 by noob7

[sbk]

Beleive that is only true for thai women married to foreign men, women are in a different class here.

Anyway, can I just say if you guys are already talking about what you would do if you split up its not really a good sign? If you love him and he loves you then you should fight for it. both of you. If only one is fighting then no, but it kinda sounds like neither of you are?

[mike123ca]

Beleive that is only true for thai women married to foreign men, women are in a different class here.

Anyway, can I just say if you guys are already talking about what you would do if you split up its not really a good sign? If you love him and he loves you then you should fight for it. both of you. If only one is fighting then no, but it kinda sounds like neither of you are?

What are you talking about?

[sbk]

Absolutely not on topic so I will say it once and if you have a further question you can take it to another thread. The man is the legal head of the family in Thailand and as such the foreign wife of a Thai man has less hoops to jump through as she is "just the wife" So, applying for the one year extension, she has no financial requirements. If she is working for her husband in his business and does not handle money she does not need a work permit as she is just the wife helping her husband. A husband cannot help his wife, only the wife can help the husband. Her husband "transfers" his citizenship to his wife. I don't know that a Thai man's foreign wife would have to vow that she is not paying for the property but given all of the above, I seriously doubt it.

So, back on topic. Although some of this is useful for the OP to know.

[Boo]

depending on where the land is bought & the office visited, the wife might have to sign a waiver. I did in Khon Kaen but a freind out in the boonies didn't but these things are irrelevant in case of divorce as anyting purchased during legal marriage will be split 50/50 in a court.

Regardless, why should the husband NOT have a property in his name? This thing with putting property in kids name is all nice & everything but I'd rather not leave my husband homeless or own a house or land in his home town if we divorced. A will to ensure the child inherits is sufficient & you could get a usfruct too to state that you have lifetime permission to live in the house in case the thai spouse dies before the child comes of age to cover that scenario

And these posts claiming her husband will or is already cheating on her based on nothing more than his nationality just proves the ignorance of some posters here. Just cause it might be easy for "some" thai men to cheat doesn't mean that all do. And FYI, it may not be as culturally accepted in western nations but I am sure that there are plenty enough western men dipping their wick where they augh not to, so lets drop the whole "I'm western therefore I am a better & more moral person that a thai man" schtick ok. It gets old really quick in the ladies section. I'm sure you think you know what you know but you know jack about the individuals we are married to. m'kay.

[Boo]

After reading your further posts I'd say you are probably on the right track with setting some kind of time frame in which to set up a business & give it a real go & if it doesn't work out then move back to UK knowing that you gave it a good go.

Regarding your son & his education, unlike other posters I have no issue raising & eduating my son in Thailand, If I had enough money to cover a few years living expenses then we would be there tomorrow. I don't buy into the whole, you owe it to your kids to give them the most expensive & exclusive education, thing that is quite popular with expats & posters here.

Not sure about other people but that's not how I was raised & I turned out ok, sure no fancy pants contacts or elite lifestyle but I wouldn't want that for my son either, my main aim as his mother is to make sure he is raised well rounded & with the ability to make his own way. Khon Kaen has a couple of decent bi lingual schools that I have already earmarked as well as a local thai school which is very exclusive, kind of like a grammar school in UK. We already homeschool to a degree, with thai & music lessons so I would do the same for english language, history etc if we lived in Thailand. I personally would't send my son to the local government school where my mil lives but mainly becuase of their discipline record , anyone hits my kid gets my fist in their face regardless of who they are. The schools I have researched do not do corporal punishment at all.

Anyway, I replied to your pm, so keep us posted on how you are getting on.

[mike123ca]

"depending on where the land is bought & the office visited, the wife might have to sign a waiver. I did in Khon Kaen but a freind out in the boonies didn't but these things are irrelevant in case of divorce as anyting purchased during legal marriage will be split 50/50 in a court."

Historically, Thai women lost their right to own land when they married a foreigner.

In Thai wisdom, they gave women the right to buy land only if the foreigner

will not make a claim for it in the event of a divorce.

If the Thai national passes away and in his/her will it states all property goes to the spouse. The spouse can keep the house, but since foreigner's are not to own land, they will be required to sell it to a Thai citizen within a year. Unless you get Thai citizenship owning property will be difficult during a divorce or passing away of a spouse. The laws regarding property only protects those who have

Thai citizenship.

[bina]

thai sex drive.....5555555555 ... thats a laugh. seems that by middle age, the 'drive' reduces to a 'stroll'.. after comparing notes here (my country) with some of us wives.with thai husbands... obviusly individual but think that noob and some others here are reading the wrong novels or have vivid imaginations.

as far as discussing stuff, thai country males seem to , from what ive noticed, prefer to leave women stuff to women and men stuff to men, therefore not a lot of discussion of things that arent of practical nature... sort of a well defined men from mars... syndrome.

and yes, discussing long term possible problems doesnt seem to be in the book either, when it happens, then discuss. ive definately learned to relax on the 'five year plan', and made it to a two month maximum plan, although behind the scenes i prepare for emergencies just in case. (wisely so, hubby doesnt stay in jobs for long periods, although he always finds work, aprt from buying a car, we try not to take on projects that are based on steady income from his side, since his income wavers. mine is measly. one of the reasons i know now that i would not be able to live in his village in thailand, due to financial realities. )

if you are young and have good family back home, then trying a year or so shouldnt be a problem, but you have to commit all in trying. having one foot there and one foot in home country just in case makes it harder to make a go of it. i think that is a cultural thing of yours (westerns like us tend to have secondary plans in drawers just in case) and thais tend to just go for it, all or nothing (the gambling spirit?).

as someone pointed out, home schooling can be done, and i also dont buy in to going for the 'best' schooling from a school in order to make it in the world. kids that make it through not such good schools but have good family 'schooling' manage to make it in areas that dont demand 'in the box' 'grades only' types.

so far,here, two out of three of my kids , not having done their high school country wide tests (like england's system, o levels or something) are managing to do good both in army and now in finding interesting unusual jobs/work experiences because they are flexible, interesting, open minded, intelligent, and willing to try things. doesnt matter if its thailand or israel.

it seems to me that mostly you need some western women support from just having minor culture shock and no one to share it with that also is in your situation.... culture shock comes in waves, and in between there are smooth times, and the waves get less as time goes on, unless u fight the waves all the time, wich is tiring, not productive, and causes stress. try to find time to do stuff that is 'your way' (one day a week of food /sit down hubby only w/o the extra family nites; western women only meet up wit the kid/s; whinge with us on the forum; go native for a while (55555555 our house here in the kibbutz is a thai style household, for hubby... shoes off, cooking outside, we now have thai fighting chickens as pets , its like little korat in the middle of kibbutz.... to provide sanity for him. so in the house i am 'native', paa sin, praa raa and all... )

life is an adventure and kids are fairly flexible if the parents 'show' flexibility too.

good luck,

bina

israel

[swlondonmum]

To sbk/mike123ca/boo

Yes I have heard a combination of all of those things. As sbk said women (Thai or foreign) are a different class to men here so different rules apply - I think that causes some of the confusion as a lot is known about foreign men/Thai women but much less the other way round. We have seen many situations where goverment staff do not know what to do as many of the individuals have not dealt with Thai men/foreign women before - I was impressed when our immigration office actually had a photocopied list of instructions for a Thai husband/foreign wife as they told me only have a handful here on long term visas. We are in the city by the way (it sounds like it can make a difference from what some of you have said).

I have heard that as a wife of a Thai man his nationally transfers to me while we are married but I lose it if he dies or if we divorce. I have heard that as mike123 said, if he died I would get the house but would have to sell it within a year unless I get Thai citizenship which is, as I understand, very difficult and not something I am planning to do. I dont like to state anything legal I know as fact as I have sometimes read conflicting info (possibly because of the male/female thing I mentioned above) so would always assume the worst case scenario rather just in case (that's just my way).

The only facts I know are that (a) yes I did have to sign a waiver (because we are married - in the uk but validated in Thailand for my visa) saying we weren't using my money.And ( My husband's mum signed as a guarantor and she had to get HER husband (ie hubby's step dad) to sign and give permission (we were told that this is because she is a woman, whereas if the guarantor was a man he would not have to get his wife to sign).

Finally as sbk said I can 'help my husband' with a business here without requiring any work permit - which I don't think applies the other way round - because the man is the head of the family. I am also a qualified school teacher and EFL teacher so could also get work in a school here - presumably if they want a foreign teacher they would help with the work permit and if not, fine, I am happy to 'help my husband' with his business.

Thanks for all your input guys

[swlondonmum]

Beleive that is only true for thai women married to foreign men, women are in a different class here.

Anyway, can I just say if you guys are already talking about what you would do if you split up its not really a good sign? If you love him and he loves you then you should fight for it. both of you. If only one is fighting then no, but it kinda sounds like neither of you are?

Noooo, we haven't been discussing splitting up now - probably not clear when I wrote it. We have always discussed what would happen if we split up or die especially at key points in our life - buying a house (UK), owning a business together (UK), having a child, moving to Thailand - now it has come up again as we are buying a house here so we bascially both said - if we split up we get a house each, if we die we want our son to get any property eventually. Yes it is probably time to get a will done to cover both countries as I know things can change if things do go bad!!

[swlondonmum]

Regardless, why should the husband NOT have a property in his name? This thing with putting property in kids name is all nice & everything but I'd rather not leave my husband homeless or own a house or land in his home town if we divorced. A will to ensure the child inherits is sufficient & you could get a usfruct too to state that you have lifetime permission to live in the house in case the thai spouse dies before the child comes of age to cover that scenario

Exactly - he has contributed to our UK property (and still is, as we rent it out in both our names) and IF we split up would have a claim on a share of that (and rightly so) which would be a nightmare as I would posssibly have to sell the property to pay his share. And we would waste money on solicitors. As things are now, we would both be happy with what we would end up with and things would be a lot more straightforward. We also both agree that our son would eventually get any property so as you say, putting that in a will would be a good idea (our son has UK and Thai nationality so I guess that wouldn't be a problem) .

[Sauliossiinthailand]

...it sounds like he has planned his future and it does not include you...

....I hope the debts are not only in your name....if you are a U.K. citizen and he is not, though...you will still have to 'foot the bill' alone....

(....also...whatever might be acquired here would only belong to him....I think...)

UK house is in my name only (he was still on spouse visa when we bought it). I bought it 13 years ago and he has been contributing half towards the mortgage since we moved in together over 6 years ago. He is a UK citizen now.

Thai house which we have just bought is in his name (as it can't be in mine) but that's fine for me as basically it's a load of debt.

We have discussed what would happen if we split and now we have the house here we would probably just each take the house in our own country. Obviously you never know if a split would be acrimonious but it would take a lot of effort and money for a solicitor to possibly decide any different so it's hard to see any other pragmatic solution..

We have some credit card debt in the UK from moving here but not a massive amount - he is also applying for one here (had to wait a bit as we've only just been here 6 months) - doesn't have a problem having debt in his name!!

If he was after me for money he would have been gone a long time ago! His family are all comfortable now (when we first met most of them were worse off but never asked for money - he never even sent his mum any money from the UK which is pretty unusual for Thais) and have lent us money since we've been here (mostly his mum)

This just sounds like a load of garbage and a headache why would you even get yourself into a situation like that where you have to constantly worry about what's going to be who's if you split up

[swlondonmum]

all great advice - yes I should commit to it at least for a while - I think not mentioning moving back to the UK for another 6 months would be a good start!! If I want a back up plan (for both of us) I can just think about that myself anyway.

And I'm pretty lucky here in the city that I can get any western food i want in the supermarkets and hubby loves pasta and steak plus I can get a half decent pizza here. So I'm happy with mostly Thai and a bit of the rest when I fancy it. Even the family is not too full-on - might change a bit when we move into our new house (we usually go to relatives' houses as we're in a small place right now) - we'll get more people round but on the plus side I don't have to wait for hubby to finish chatting (just another half an hour! x10 ) to go home!

Good points from you and Boo about schooling in the west not being the only solution - I was a teacher for a while and know that secondary schools can be hit and miss in London, though we are lucky to be very near to a great primary. But I also think that financially we would be better off, and that out of the two cities it is easier for him to be in London than for me to be here (loads of Thai people in London for a start) so combining all these reasons I think we should move back eventually - but right now I should just get focus on enjoying myself here.

[swlondonmum]

...it sounds like he has planned his future and it does not include you...

....I hope the debts are not only in your name....if you are a U.K. citizen and he is not, though...you will still have to 'foot the bill' alone....

(....also...whatever might be acquired here would only belong to him....I think...)

UK house is in my name only (he was still on spouse visa when we bought it). I bought it 13 years ago and he has been contributing half towards the mortgage since we moved in together over 6 years ago. He is a UK citizen now.

Thai house which we have just bought is in his name (as it can't be in mine) but that's fine for me as basically it's a load of debt.

We have discussed what would happen if we split and now we have the house here we would probably just each take the house in our own country. Obviously you never know if a split would be acrimonious but it would take a lot of effort and money for a solicitor to possibly decide any different so it's hard to see any other pragmatic solution..

We have some credit card debt in the UK from moving here but not a massive amount - he is also applying for one here (had to wait a bit as we've only just been here 6 months) - doesn't have a problem having debt in his name!!

If he was after me for money he would have been gone a long time ago! His family are all comfortable now (when we first met most of them were worse off but never asked for money - he never even sent his mum any money from the UK which is pretty unusual for Thais) and have lent us money since we've been here (mostly his mum)

This just sounds like a load of garbage and a headache why would you even get yourself into a situation like that where you have to constantly worry about what's going to be who's if you split up

Some people are into pre-nups and wills and life insurance - others aren't.We have always discussed things like that occasionally - when you are with someone from another country with different laws it complicates things so it can help to speak about them. If you are into planning to cover eventualities then it's no a headache. If you don't want to think about it and prefer to deal with things as they come up then fine. Whatever works for you.