Dairy Farming Returns In Thailand

[grimleybob]

cows. dairy or beef are hard work, and need a lot of land, not as if you could barn them as in uk, my mum used to have aberdeen angus, in the barn most of the time, only out in the field now and again when the horses were in,

pigs,chickens, mushrooms or any other thing you want to farm i would say have a go at it, alone as andy says, you dont need the volume of land that you need for cows,

we have 2 rai and make a little bit from the pigs, im going to build her a mushroom shed, we have a few chickens for eggs,

but in my opinion, and im no expert, to much land needed for cows and the set up with land and good cows is to much,

jake

In many commercial farming units in Thailand, as in the hotter parts of Spain, cattle ar perminently housed in open sided barns to protect them from the sun. Paddle fans are often used for air flow.

The land is not grazed but is used more productively to grow fodder/silage or this can be bought in from neighbouring farms

Bob

[aussieruss]

Hi all Isaan aussie what is super grass? rgds Russell

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

[andycrosby]

Hi all Isaan aussie what is super grass? rgds Russell

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

Super grass is not the real name its just the name I gave it when I passed it about to everyone.

If you want some russ ill give you what you need at farm meet 6 if your going there or you can come take a pick up full of starter plants

That offer goes for anyone who needs it

It comes from south america grows 8 ft 10 FT tall and grows very fast it self sets by sending roots out up old stems then falls over and then about 8 ten new plants are born or you can cut the old stem and it will grow

it is mind blowing

[jamescollister]

Hi all Isaan aussie what is super grass? rgds Russell

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

Super grass is not the real name its just the name I gave it when I passed it about to everyone.

If you want some russ ill give you what you need at farm meet 6 if your going there or you can come take a pick up full of starter plants

That offer goes for anyone who needs it

It comes from south america grows 8 ft 10 FT tall and grows very fast it self sets by sending roots out up old stems then falls over and then about 8 ten new plants are born or you can cut the old stem and it will grow

it is mind blowing

Mabe I missed something, but what do you use the grass for. Feed cows or what. Jim

[aussieruss]

Hi Andy I wouldlove to but still in Oz I will catch up with you after rgds Russell

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

[bina]

guys!!!!!!!!!!!!

knock it off all of you with jumped up testesterone levels...ruining a good thread with needless horn bashing. all info is welcome, people here can winnow through to find what is relavant or not, raising cows is not a religioun but a science and a love, so lets keep it that way...

the subject: dairy farming.

stick to it....

all knowlege is good; someone wants to try his hand in it, then give the facts as you know it. there are always counter facts.. but the animal husbandry itself changes for ANY GIVEN AREA AND BREED.

that means that what works in one country or amphur with one breed might not work with an other breed or in an other country or amphur.

for instance, israeli cows never ever ever see daylite in a pasture, they are in cowsheds, with or w/o airconditoining or heating, or open or closed stalls, they are milked three times in 24 hours, they have several world famous studs that make it ot holland/germany/spain in straws (their sperm of course not the stud); israeli cows eat all sorts of wierd set ups to maximise milk output, there is a strict difference between farms as to how long a cow is kept after production reduces itself, and what happens to her.; even in different areas here the weather conditions are different: negev desert, jerusalem cold winters cool summer nights, etc...

same for thailand, same for new zealand and australia and germany.

i think for RC it might have been a combination of tb (or was it johnnes?) and other diseases,money hassles, family life, all sorts of stuff that just got to him in the end, and screwy work force (to have decent livestock u must have trustworthy staff that really like and care about what they are doing, not just tossing food in to the trough, and hooking up the teats... u need people that are sensitive to they way a cow/goat stands, ruminates, looks at you in order to know if she is feeling good, starting to get sick, or hurts or whatever.

animasl are 24\7\365 even if u have good staff.

a large hobby can be a small business, any way you look at it cows/milk in thailand is a difficult prospect without good knowlege or good agri advisors, money in reserve , patience, and as i said before, willingness to slog it out in the shit....

having a single milk cow, for someone who asked,cant remember who, i would recommend two female goats, get them bred, you can milk for quite a while, get good milk, goats are more personable and make better pets , are more versatile, shit less and more compactly, are more handleable for smaller people (women folk and kids), are trainable to an extent.... i adore goats. also feed costs are less (they still need decent feed and forgage contrary to popular belief that they eat everything), milking physically easier (good fodder, a pair of gentle hands, clean bucket=couple lieters of milk a day for y ougurt, etc. )

its easy to get emotional about animal info but no need; all info is welcome, someone doesnt want to listen, its his/her problem in the long run...

havent had a good loong thread in a while... so sit back and enjoy, show pics , ...

mooooooooo

bina

israel

[Michael Hare]

My interest in this topic was because of the quoted return of 10,000 baht/cow but the original post never stated if it was per month or per year. I guess per month.

This is an extraordinary amount to get from dairy cows in tropical Thailand.

I rang my friend this afternoon at DPO Muaklek to ask him what he and his fellow members were receiving from raw milk from the DPO. He said 18 baht/litre, plus or minus 1 baht depending on quality. Here at the Faculty of Agriculture, Ubon Ratchathani University, we receive 19 baht/litre from selling to the biggest fresh milk shop in Ubon across the road from Robinson.

So I congratulate Andy on receiving 25 baht/litre with direct sales. Well done.

However, I still have problems with the monthly net/profit of 10,000 baht/head. The average milk yield in Thailand is only 8 litres/head. I guess the poor farmers pull this down. An average lactation yield is only about 3,000 litres per lactation. And many cows take over one year before calving again.

I will do figures on 12 litres/head/day, just to make the statistics better. Farmer receives 12 x 18 baht= 216 baht. Buying concentrate costs at least 12 baht/kg. Farmers fed at 2:1 (2 litres milk: 1 kg concentrate). A 12 litre yielding cow therefore receives 6 kg of concentrate which is 72 baht. Then we have to calculate grass costs. Does he has his own grass or goes out and cuts rubbish from the roadsides? Then there are electricity costs, water costs, semen costs, animal health costs. All adds up.

I believe that most smallholder dairy farmers only make a nett profit of 5 baht/litre of milk. 5 baht x 12 litres = 60 baht/day/cow. Or 1800 baht/month.

I stand to be corrected on these figures.

Dairy farming only exists in Thailand because of massive government support. Thai dairy farmers receive prices almost 40% above overseas market prices for raw milk. Many papers have been written on the inefficiency of dairying in Thailand. Vietnam and China are expanding rapidly. I have consulted on dairy pastures in Vietnam for the last 5 years. Believe me they are good. Vinamilk in Vietnam is a very good company. They buy our grass seeds from Ubon. Likewise, the huge new dairy company TH MIlk buys our grass seeds. Soon they will be milking 20,000 cows per year.

Back here in Thailand I am pleased to say that Chokchai Farm and CPPF farms (Meiji milk) buys our high quality grass seed.

I am also interested in this “super grass”. At an educated guess I would say it was hybrid napier grass, a cross between pearl millet and napier. Can only be grown with cuttings. Needs good love and care. Must be cut frequently to avoid becoming rank and stemmy. Has no drought resistant. All our good grasses leave it for dead but Thai farmers like it because it grows tall and lush. No good under grazing.

Conclusion. If I had money to buy a 100 rai dairy farm in Thailand I wouldn’t do it.

[loong]

..............................................

havent had a good loong thread in a while... so sit back and enjoy, show pics , ...................

............................................

Sorry to snip your post, but I have to ask why you are picking on me.

I apologise that my contributions to this forum are not up to scratch and I promise to try to do better in future

!

[somo]

Michael thank you for a very informative post. Great to have someone who really knows whats what.

[grimleybob]

Michael thank you for a very informative post. Great .

You didn't need to add the rest.

[tebee]

Wow this topic has gone off and got a life of it own......

Thanks to all who have given informative and positive replies. I'm still not convinced that buying this place would be a good idea, but I can see why my wife is attracted to it. The problem for her is that if she moves out of Bangkok she will have to give up her, by Thai standards, well paid job.

Now I run my own business, and we have rental properties both in BKK and Europe, but it would still mean a large decrease in our monthly income, this place would fill that gap. On the other hand I don't see her being up at 5am to do the milking or driving a tractor. My business is about as far removed from this as is possible and if I spend my time driving tractors then I'm not going to make as much money from that either.

So I've had her ask a few more questions. Firstly although she was looking in Lopburi province, this one was just over the border in Chaiyaphum Province where land is apparently cheaper. They reckon they are getting 300 baht per day, per cow for their milk. The land's not used for grazing, but for growing feedstuffs, mostly grass ( I assume for silage), sorghum I think and another I couldn't work out. They are selling because the owner is ill and his kids don't want to come back to the farm. Other family is helping out and they are employing Burmese.

Price includes house, buildings and fixed equipment, but not tractors or cows. They reckon they are paying 30,000 baht each for their cows. Bad point is that the land is non-chanote, but that does not seem to worry her that much and it's her money we are using for this not mine. The price is nowhere near the figure someone quoted earlier in the thread however.

Incidentally is that 200,000 baht a rai figure realistic ? by my calculations that works out at 125 bt a sq m which is the same as good arable land here in Europe, rough grazing here will only set you back about 20 bt/sqm. Given the disparity in incomes that doesn't sound right, but Asians have always looked on land as an investment and don't seem to worry about returns.

[pigeonjake]

i suppose the milk yield would bepend on how you fed your cows, even if you just kept them in a barn and fed prosesed feed as long as you fed the best feed possible you would get the yield up, but again that would eat into your profits,

so its getting the balance, feed, yield, profits,

i suppose it could be done, but its a lot of out lay, and like so many have said here in the past not just on this post finding good help here is hard, wouldnt be any good having 20 milkers waiting to be milked and no help turn up,

thats the things you also have to think of here, not just buying 100rai and some cows,,

just my thoughts, jake

[IsaanAussie]

I would like to add to Jake's comment on production issues. I believe that most farmers here spend little if any time developing markets for their products and as a result do not receive as much as they could. For instance as quoted here, as simple as direct selling. So to the OP ask yourself the question, "If I bought the farm, who am I going to sell the milk to?"

[David Peters]

I would like to add to Jake's comment on production issues. I believe that most farmers here spend little if any time developing markets for their products and as a result do not receive as much as they could. For instance as quoted here, as simple as direct selling. So to the OP ask yourself the question, "If I bought the farm, who am I going to sell the milk to?"

OP will probably sell milk to the existing buyer. Being in Chaiyaphum province, I would think the milk is sold to the DPO plant at Tha Phra Khon Kaen.

[banpunket]

Hello

I farm 37 rai Did have 50 milkers,I have had a dairy farm in thailand for 5 years,I have lived in thai for 3 years.

The average milk yield i get is about 10 kilos per day @ 16.70 baht per kilo.

If you feed concentrates ie Proscesed feed about 460 baht per 50 kilos your yield will increase but not enougth to pay for the concentrate.

I have tried every feed possible.

I have cows that will give 25 kilos plus a day but this will fall off later in the lactation cycle.

[andycrosby]

Spoke to my friend again today, he is here dehorning a calf for me. The local cheese Factory is paying 24 baht at this time the co-op is paying 16-17

He says making your own concentrates is a key factor to profit and he is using high amounts of gatin in the mix giving 30% Protien grows his own grain and corn

still says he makes 10k per cow per month in full milk

I also understand some people want to know more about the grass well I am not sure if there is anything better out there or not, I am not a grass expert. But Tony and a few others on here have some of it and I think its very good in the dry season. I am not selling it I am giving it away.

[David Peters]

Spoke to my friend again today, he is here dehorning a calf for me. The local cheese Factory is paying 24 baht at this time the co-op is paying 16-17

He says making your own concentrates is a key factor to profit and he is using high amounts of gatin in the mix giving 30% Protien grows his own grain and corn

still says he makes 10k per cow per month in full milk

I also understand some people want to know more about the grass well I am not sure if there is anything better out there or not, I am not a grass expert. But Tony and a few others on here have some of it and I think its very good in the dry season. I am not selling it I am giving it away.

Andy, your friend is partly doing the right thing. Feeding leucaena (gratin) leave is the best protein feed for cattle in the tropics. The King of Tropical legumes.I disagree on feeding grains as I have always believed human food should not be given to animals. Being rumens, they were bred to digest grass and leafy products. Their rumens have problems digesting large amounts of grains.

Your friend also must have good genetic stock otherwise no amount of feeding will increase milk yield very much.

[slapout]

Good grass hay is normally dependent on when it was cut in its growth cycle. We had a native grass (Bluestem) which if cut right yields up to 15% protien hay

We use to run cattle on native grass which would hold 1 cow unit per 2 acres. You could travel 50 miles away and it required 5 acres per unit, and this would increase to 50 acres in some areas just due to the different grass variety, soil type and annual rainfall.

If someone would get the correct varities of grass on good compatable soil, good cross fencing and irrigation, it should be possible to graze 1 cow unit per acre and still put up grass hay for the non growth/winter season.

[jcw]

Interesting Thread.

I like Bina's suggestion of 2 goats. But I do not like the 5am bit of milking them.

[bina]

you dont have to milk at 5 am... you milk when u feed. just, animals wake up with the sun and if u leave goat kids with themothers, they willhave drunk your milk by the time u get there, unless u separate at night, or all together. so milking early morning before it gets too hot, then they fill up for a second milking a bit before nightfall, and u feed themt o settle them for the night. anf if u skip a milking once in a while it isnt a catstrophe unless u are counting every liter needed (as the amount drops a bit, but that is how we milk in israel when there are holidays that prevent working apart from animal caretaking (milking once, or skpping, enough to not cause discomfort to the animal, and feeding, only).

or if u are limited in hand hours, then milk once a day, goats get used to a schedule as long as u stick to it (ever see goats after daylite savings time changes, and u come one hour earlier or later to feed?) this is for home use goats only, business dairies are run along the same lines as cow dairies...

[tebee]

Just when you have all forgotten about this thread and I though I had persuaded my wife to forget the idea, she's been talking about buying it again, though as the sale of the Bangkok house looks to have fallen through I'm not sure where the money is coming from now. As part of this renewed interest she sent me the picture she took so I thought I'd share them with you.

This is one of the sheds the keep the cows in

The working area

More cows and sheds

Who said they don't milk into buckets these days? They have a machine for it, though it does not look that sophisticated.

The milk was sterilized by being boiled in this

And finally the house, though I notice we didn't get any of the inside - My wife, I'm afraid, is of the school of photography that says that no picture of any ancient monument, spectacular view or anything else of interest is complete without at least one family member blocking the view of it. This is her in front of the house.

What do you think folks ?

Tom

[Michael Hare]

Just when you have all forgotten about this thread and I though I had persuaded my wife to forget the idea, she's been talking about buying it again, though as the sale of the Bangkok house looks to have fallen through I'm not sure where the money is coming from now. As part of this renewed interest she sent me the picture she took so I thought I'd share them with you.

This is one of the sheds the keep the cows in

The working area

More cows and sheds

Who said they don't milk into buckets these days? They have a machine for it, though it does not look that sophisticated.

The milk was sterilized by being boiled in this

And finally the house, though I notice we didn't get any of the inside - My wife, I'm afraid, is of the school of photography that says that no picture of any ancient monument, spectacular view or anything else of interest is complete without at least one family member blocking the view of it. This is her in front of the house.

What do you think folks ?

Tom

Thank you for sharing your photos with us. Your wife looks lovely. But unfortunately the cows and their living conditions do not look lovely. I get depressed when going on to dairy farms in Thailand. The cows lie around in muddy yards and eat all this dry concentrate stuff. No fresh green grass on most farms. That is why the average milk yield per cow is only 7-8 litres/day in Thailand.

Tom, if you buy this farm it will be a challenge. I wouldn't buy fresh milk from the farm as it is, unless it was dramatically improved.

Here are some photos of a small dairy farm in Vietnam. The farms there are very clean and they average about 16 litres/cow/day. A dairy cow needs access to clean drinking water 24 hours per day.

D:\Nghia Dan 2010\Loc 4_resize.JPG

D:\Nghia Dan 2010\Loc 7.JPG

D:\Nghia Dan 2010\Loc 14 Ubon paspalum.JPG

D:\Nghia Dan 2010\Ha 4 _resize.JPG

[loong]

Michael,

I don't know if it is just me, but I cannot see any of the images that you have posted

[Michael Hare]

Village dairy farms in Vietnam

[tebee]

Thanks Michael, an interesting contrast. I notice the Vietnamese cows seem free to walk round their sheds, but the Thai ones were kept tethered. On the former dairy farm we used to own here there were cast iron drinkers in the stalls, the sort the cows press with their noses to get water, don't see anything like that in the photos.

I live in rural France when I'm in Europe, I buy my milk directly from one of the small producers here - I like it because it's organic and unpasteurized( sorry if I sound like an eco-hippy - would it help if I told you I go there on my electric bike?) Now what I see there and at the other farms in my area al looks a little ramshackle and there is mud everywhere when it rains. Cows do tread a lot of mud in and never seem to use the door mat!

On the other hand they have modern clean dairy with tiled walls and stainless steel equipment, wear hair nets and change their shoes when the go into it. They are still small by European standards, 35-50 in the herd and work very hard.

Their cows graze in the fields all winter, but many do seem to keep the herds indoors for the winter, being fed silage and concentrates.

Incidentally although that does look like concentrates they are feeding in the photos, they told my wife they grow most of the feed on the farm - they have 100 Rai for 11 cattle. If their figures are to be beloved they are getting about 10-12 litres per day per cow.

Tom

[Gary A]

I'm not and would never consider being a dairy farmer. I lived in Ohio next to a dairy farm and here are my observations;

It is a 24 hour a day seven days a week year round operation. This particular operation was run and owned by three brothers. They bought a dairy herd from a retiring farmer and quickly learned that it is a LOT of work. Vet bills were expensive and the only way to make any money was to farm their own feed. That meant a huge investment for a silo and automated feeders. They did learn but all three boys are married to the operation. No time for fun for any of the young guys.

They also farm several hundred acres. Not rai but acres. There are now three huge glass lined silos and many thousands of dollars of silage making and handling equipment. Yes, they do make money but they have access to finance and borrow money on a regular basis to keep the operation state of the art.

I write this to let people on the forum know that profitable dairy farming is certainly not for hobby farmers. It is a labor intensive high tech business requiring a lot of very expensive stainless steel milk handling equipment and the work to keep this equipment absolutely sterile. I used to question the boys if it is worth it and all three say they would sellout immediately if anyone would make them a decent offer.