Honda City Cng And Jazz Hybrid.

[nev]

My better half is looking at the two mentioned cars, or the standard city or Jazz models.

What i want to know what will the running costs be compared with the standard models and would the extra costs be justified over the 5 years we intend to keep the car, i know the Jazz Hybrid is less power 102 compared to 120hp and smaller engine 1339cc, but the CNG city still has 120 hp so we are leaning to wards the city CNG.

Thanks for any advice nev.

[mogandave]

If you want cheap, go with the CNG. IMO hybrids are for suckers.

[MJCM]

The Jazz Hybrid (excluding Electric Motor) has 88 PS. I don't think the Electric Motor will help you when you for example going up a mountain so forget about the extra 14 PS, so that makes it 32 PS less then the regular one and also the extra weight for the Jazz Hybrid (1166 vs 1115) doesn't help.

If you plan to go up country with the car, I would go for the CNG one.

Edited September 25, 2012 by MJCM

[nev]

The Jazz Hybrid (excluding Electric Motor) has 88 PS. I don't think the Electric Motor will help you when you for example going up a mountain so forget about the extra 14 PS, so that makes it 32 PS less then the regular one and also the extra weight for the Jazz Hybrid (1166 vs 1115) doesn't help.

If you plan to go up country with the car, I would go for the CNG one.

Thanks for that info mate, makes sense i think the CNG is the better option as we live up country and do a lot of driving, my GF had a Civic before and converted to LPG said she lost a lot of power, but in the brochure they say still 120hp for the CNG City.

[nev]

If you want cheap, go with the CNG. IMO hybrids are for suckers.

Agree with the comment about the hybrids, i told her if you want the Jazz go the standard model.

[culicine]

The Jazz Hybrid (excluding Electric Motor) has 88 PS. I don't think the Electric Motor will help you when you for example going up a mountain so forget about the extra 14 PS, so that makes it 32 PS less then the regular one and also the extra weight for the Jazz Hybrid (1166 vs 1115) doesn't help.

If you plan to go up country with the car, I would go for the CNG one.

Thanks for that info mate, makes sense i think the CNG is the better option as we live up country and do a lot of driving, my GF had a Civic before and converted to LPG said she lost a lot of power, but in the brochure they say still 120hp for the CNG City.

Is the city CNG only or bi-fuel? Id you are upcountry and drive a lot, you might need to use benzene sometimes. The CNG will be cheaper than any jazz hybrid, which I assume is also quite a bit more expensive. Jazz hybrid economy is not much better than a standard ecocar. They just don't make economic sense to me. Not sure if the HP will still be at 120 HP for CNG though, unless they tweeked the ECU or made other mods. Either way, it should be powerful enough for regular driving.

[keemapoot]

I bought my wife a new City a couple years ago, it even though not a CNG, it gets great MPG using 91 gasohol mostly. Using the electronic MPG gauge, on highway driving averaging around 110-120 KPH, it gets 17.5 or better kpl. Depending on your needs, you may not need to even go with the CNG, but if you drive a lot, that would be nice and probably better resale.

[MJCM]

I just downloaded the PDF for the City CNG, the HP is not 120 but 75 KW or 102 PS.

Link:

http://honda.co.th/citycng/

@culcine.

The normal tank has 42 Liters and the CNG 65 Liters, so yes the car is Bi-Fuel

[culicine]

I just downloaded the PDF for the City CNG, the HP is not 120 but 75 KW or 102 PS.

Link:

http://honda.co.th/citycng/

@culcine.

The normal tank has 42 Liters and the CNG 65 Liters, so yes the car is Bi-Fuel

Thanks, that will blunt the performance somewhat, but should still be acceptable, The cng tank will also add to the weight to haul around.

[culicine]

I just downloaded the PDF for the City CNG, the HP is not 120 but 75 KW or 102 PS.

Link:

http://honda.co.th/citycng/

@culcine.

The normal tank has 42 Liters and the CNG 65 Liters, so yes the car is Bi-Fuel

Thanks, that will blunt the performance somewhat, but should still be acceptable, The cng tank will also add to the weight to haul around.

[arthurwait]

The peak hp on the electric motor and petrol engine won't be at the same speed or anywhere close. It's not a matter of adding them up or taking them away. It's when the peak power of the electric motor happens. Then it's a case of whether that is the constant power or peak power that and if the motor controller allows you.

It's the torque that is the benefit with an electric motor and as the electric motor will rev much lower than the petrol engine it's torque will hopefully compliment the petrol motors torque curve. It's the torque that will help you get up hills unless you rev the posterior of the car off driving up them.

It's the torque that matters when accelerating at normal driving speeds and as it's accerleration that uses fuel the most having a torqy electric motor aiding things at these engine speeds should help.

Whether the hybrid or any hybrid is any good or not I don't know as I'll let others find out first before I spend on them. I did consider the Honda Crz hybrid, but I worked out it would take me many years to even break even with the amount of miles I do. About 10 I think I worked out. That and not knowing how long the batteries last and how much they cost to replace made it a no go for me.

CNG I believe are lower powered then petrol cars. It's probably more the loss here you need to worry.

If you're concerned about getting up hills and fuel economy, buy a diesel. Limited choice here I know.

Just look at the figures, decide whether you believe them and decide from that.

[arthurwait]

Jazz Hybrid.

DISPLACEMENT (cc.) 1339

HORSEPOWER Kw / RPM 65/5800

TORQUE N-M (Kg.-M.) / RPM 121/4500

Electric motor

HORSEPOWER Kw (PS) / RPM 10/1500

TORQUE N-M (Kg.-M.) / RPM 78/1000

The torque curve of the electric motor should be pretty flat and hopefully the petrol engine one shouldn't vary too much. If you add the torques together you've got the torque of say a 1.8 or 2 litre engine at normal driving engine speeds.

You've got as someone posted above 50kg of extra weight, but a CNG tank would probably weigh not far off that at a guess.

Edited September 26, 2012 by arthurwait

[nev]

The peak hp on the electric motor and petrol engine won't be at the same speed or anywhere close. It's not a matter of adding them up or taking them away. It's when the peak power of the electric motor happens. Then it's a case of whether that is the constant power or peak power that and if the motor controller allows you.

It's the torque that is the benefit with an electric motor and as the electric motor will rev much lower than the petrol engine it's torque will hopefully compliment the petrol motors torque curve. It's the torque that will help you get up hills unless you rev the posterior of the car off driving up them.

It's the torque that matters when accelerating at normal driving speeds and as it's accerleration that uses fuel the most having a torqy electric motor aiding things at these engine speeds should help.

Whether the hybrid or any hybrid is any good or not I don't know as I'll let others find out first before I spend on them. I did consider the Honda Crz hybrid, but I worked out it would take me many years to even break even with the amount of miles I do. About 10 I think I worked out. That and not knowing how long the batteries last and how much they cost to replace made it a no go for me.

CNG I believe are lower powered then petrol cars. It's probably more the loss here you need to worry.

If you're concerned about getting up hills and fuel economy, buy a diesel. Limited choice here I know.

Just look at the figures, decide whether you believe them and decide from that.

Thanks for that info mate, we already have a diesel D-Max, main reason for a car is more comfy for long trips, and as we do a few trips from khon kaen to bkk, we are looking for better economy on the long trips and more comfort than the D-Max.

There is not to many hills up here so that"s not a major problem, it is really either the standard Jazz or City, or weigh up if the CNG city is worth the extra over the long term, we will be keeping the car for at least 5 years, and as my gf's 3 cars before have all been in her mum's name she is able to get the 100,000 bt rebate.

[Geratul]

Beware also of the fact that CNG needs always more repairs when the car gets older, because actually there are 2 engines. A fuel and diesel engine! CNG will makes the fuel engine and esp. the cylinders "raw" and needs eventually more repair. Also don't forget that you have less space in the back. The tank is really big and CNG will always give less power, so you will never get the 120 PS a fuel-engine gives.

Besides that a Jazz is not a City what model you like the most... a Jazz is less comfortable then a City (got them both) so I see and feel the difference.

Good luck in choosing your model.

[IMHO]

It all depends on what type of mileage you do.

If you're driving mostly in stop-start traffic, the hybrid will do better, if mainly highway, the CNG will cost the least to run.

As far as which is the better overall deal, it's also going to come down to how many miles it will travel in those 5 years. If only light milage, neither will pay themselves off.

I would expect the Jazz Hybrid to have better residuals than the City CNG.

[arthurwait]

Just read my post back. About the costs of the CRZ hybrid most of it is due to import tax obviously not the same for the Jazz. It seems a bit silly for me to write that reading it back. Not comparing apples with apples.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

You have to love TV

people with no clue talking about things. The hub of mis-information.

First let me say I do not have a Jazz or a City.

But I do have a CNG truck. I drive alot and the cost is very low for CNG as well as the option to use gas when you want, or may need. You said you were in KK and drive to BKK. I am in CM and drive to BKK, Pattaya or Phuket ever other week. My cost on CNG are 1/4 of what they would be on gas. Just this week I did a round trip to Phuket. 4 days 3400 KM my cost for CNG was 3350 Bt. for CNG it would have been over 12,000 for gas. I was carrying a load, a savings of 9000 Bt on this trip alone. and I save about 30.000 Bt a month in fuel cost. So much my truck will be free in the saving alone in about 3 years.

A few truths about CNG. I get better kpl with CNG than gas. (12 gas 13 cng). I can not feel any loss of power, and when it switches between the fuels I can tell no difference. The honda has a full warrentte same as the normal City. CNG burns cleaner and the Engine is cleaner.

But is CNG for you ? Where do you drive and how often ? A CNG tank can only hold 20% of it's size so just about 12- 13 ltr of CNG so your range will be 200 = 250 per fill up so you will stop more often for fuel. On Google maps search NGV stations to see if any are near you and where you go ? they are not everywhere, but most places, And you can always use gas And the trunk will have less space. How much do you carry ?

Fuel cost CNG will be 1/2 to 1/3 the Hybrid and 1/3 - 1/4 the standard model However, if you don't drive much, or go where none is avalable, . . .

I just know I am very happy with my CNG truck and now drive more places because the cost is so low.

[nev]

You have to love TV

people with no clue talking about things. The hub of mis-information.

First let me say I do not have a Jazz or a City.

But I do have a CNG truck. I drive alot and the cost is very low for CNG as well as the option to use gas when you want, or may need. You said you were in KK and drive to BKK. I am in CM and drive to BKK, Pattaya or Phuket ever other week. My cost on CNG are 1/4 of what they would be on gas. Just this week I did a round trip to Phuket. 4 days 3400 KM my cost for CNG was 3350 Bt. for CNG it would have been over 12,000 for gas. I was carrying a load, a savings of 9000 Bt on this trip alone. and I save about 30.000 Bt a month in fuel cost. So much my truck will be free in the saving alone in about 3 years.

A few truths about CNG. I get better kpl with CNG than gas. (12 gas 13 cng). I can not feel any loss of power, and when it switches between the fuels I can tell no difference. The honda has a full warrentte same as the normal City. CNG burns cleaner and the Engine is cleaner.

But is CNG for you ? Where do you drive and how often ? A CNG tank can only hold 20% of it's size so just about 12- 13 ltr of CNG so your range will be 200 = 250 per fill up so you will stop more often for fuel. On Google maps search NGV stations to see if any are near you and where you go ? they are not everywhere, but most places, And you can always use gas And the trunk will have less space. How much do you carry ?

Fuel cost CNG will be 1/2 to 1/3 the Hybrid and 1/3 - 1/4 the standard model However, if you don't drive much, or go where none is avalable, . . .

I just know I am very happy with my CNG truck and now drive more places because the cost is so low.

Thanks for that info mate, if up to me i would go for the City CNG, but after explaining a few things, she has almost made her mind up for the Standard City top model, we do have a CNG station only 1k from our home so the filling up would not be a problem, i think the lack of boot space has swung her to the standard City.

Thanks for all the replies. nev

[rixalex]

Thanks for that info mate, if up to me i would go for the City CNG, but after explaining a few things, she has almost made her mind up for the Standard City top model, we do have a CNG station only 1k from our home so the filling up would not be a problem, i think the lack of boot space has swung her to the standard City.

Thanks for all the replies. nev

What are Honda charging for the CNG City and Hybrid Jazz?

[nev]

Thanks for that info mate, if up to me i would go for the City CNG, but after explaining a few things, she has almost made her mind up for the Standard City top model, we do have a CNG station only 1k from our home so the filling up would not be a problem, i think the lack of boot space has swung her to the standard City.

Thanks for all the replies. nev

What are Honda charging for the CNG City and Hybrid Jazz?

CNG City 708,000 baht, Hybrid Jazz 728,000 baht that is from memory, we have just bought the top model City 704,000 baht, as we like the black interior 16 inch wheels and other extra's you get on that model.

If just up to me i would have got the CNG City, but happy with the decision now as i think the City running on 91 gasahol will still be economical enough for our needs.

[rixalex]

What are Honda charging for the CNG City and Hybrid Jazz?

CNG City 708,000 baht, Hybrid Jazz 728,000 baht that is from memory, we have just bought the top model City 704,000 baht, as we like the black interior 16 inch wheels and other extra's you get on that model.

If just up to me i would have got the CNG City, but happy with the decision now as i think the City running on 91 gasahol will still be economical enough for our needs.

Congrats on the new car order. Had one of those on order myself before the floods came. Very nice car.

What trim level do you get on the CNG City? Is it same spec as the top model?

[nev]

What are Honda charging for the CNG City and Hybrid Jazz?

CNG City 708,000 baht, Hybrid Jazz 728,000 baht that is from memory, we have just bought the top model City 704,000 baht, as we like the black interior 16 inch wheels and other extra's you get on that model.

If just up to me i would have got the CNG City, but happy with the decision now as i think the City running on 91 gasahol will still be economical enough for our needs.

Congrats on the new car order. Had one of those on order myself before the floods came. Very nice car.

What trim level do you get on the CNG City? Is it same spec as the top model?

You get the S or V trim which is grey, i like the black trim on the SV which swung the decision, yes looking forward to getting it now, it, be more comfortable than the 10 year old D max, will still keep the D max as need for go look at the farms.

[rixalex]

What are Honda charging for the CNG City and Hybrid Jazz?

CNG City 708,000 baht, Hybrid Jazz 728,000 baht that is from memory, we have just bought the top model City 704,000 baht, as we like the black interior 16 inch wheels and other extra's you get on that model.

If just up to me i would have got the CNG City, but happy with the decision now as i think the City running on 91 gasahol will still be economical enough for our needs.

Congrats on the new car order. Had one of those on order myself before the floods came. Very nice car.

What trim level do you get on the CNG City? Is it same spec as the top model?

You get the S or V trim which is grey, i like the black trim on the SV which swung the decision, yes looking forward to getting it now, it, be more comfortable than the 10 year old D max, will still keep the D max as need for go look at the farms.

So what about features like the split rear seat, paddle shift gear etc, that come on the top model... does the CNG version get all the same bells and whistles?

[nev]

So what about features like the split rear seat, paddle shift gear etc, that come on the top model... does the CNG version get all the same bells and whistles.

Not sure about that mate, but i like those options on the top model, i think S and V models do not get those options but i stand corrected, as the brochure i have does not have details of specs on the CNG.