Just Having A Gripe.

[MAJIC]

To I LIKE THAI

'I think the soaps are trying to influence society for the good, but is fighting a losing battle. Thai society is starting to break down quicker and quicker with the western influence that is invading Thai society through the media and especially the internet. I think the breakdown in Thai society will become worse over the next few years'.

What a load of crap. Thai soapies are insulting to the intelligence of anybody who watches them. They stereotype ethnic prejudices.... the white skinned Hi SO and the dark skinned maid, grovelling at her feet. The weak heroine who falls over and is rescued by the handsome guy. The bitch mother from hell etc etc

Jeez, my secret is out, I have been watching too many

Maybe they are actually taking the piss out of HI SO by showing behaviour you would never see in normal Thai society. But for God's sake don't go blaming the demise of Thai culture on the evil west... quick, where's my bucket I'm about to puke.

Dopey me ..you are a Troll aren't you

As you say "don't go blaming the demise of Thai culture on the evil west" the western world has realised the effects of Television on the young for many many decades, and have what is known as the "Watershed" viewing,which have programmes with adult content,shown only after 9 pm,when young children should be in bed.But that is not to say,that all children will not be subjected to unsuitable material,Parents also have a duty to protect their children, and ensure they do not have access to unsuitable material.

Edited September 28, 2012 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

Ever wondered why there are so many gun crimes in Thailand?

Just watch Thai TV.

It's CopyCat crimes,and anyone that thinks that Soaps are harmless needs to study some Phsycology. Thai Soaps in particular are scripted with more than enough Aggression and Violent Confrontation. Who would let their children watch them,and not feel extreme concern?

Pure and simple Brainwashing,and at the risk of being flamed,IMHO that's where the Screaming Tantrums,and Unreasonable Behaviour originates from! and portrayed as being normal reactions.

Maybe that is a little unbalanced, in the Thai soaps there is always the Good and Bad people. The characters that are aggressive and violent always get their come-uppance. they normally end up getting killed or going to jail. The guy good and girl rarely do and they end up happy at the end of the movie. If anything, it may be a good influence on the Thai children and teenagers. I also think that the movies are mostly a reflection of what is already happening in society, with a lot of drama added.

In real life people don't always get their come-uppance. But you missed the point, children (in particular) watching unsuitable material are mentally being programmed to copy what they see and hear,and will get the impression that this is normal for people to behave in this manner!

[GuestHouse]

Thai society is starting to break down quicker and quicker with the western influence that is invading Thai society through the media and especially the internet.

I don't disagree that there are deep rooted and growing problems in Thai society, but wherever do you get the idea that these are due to the innovation of 'western influence'?

Utter hogwash!

[canuckamuck]

Television is nothing compared to what the kids download on the net and share on their phones

[DrTuner]

TV (Television, not this forum) as it is ought to be buried already. Even here the internet is starting to be fast enough to enable view-on-demand instead of the mindless pre-programmed brainwashing. Not that that would decrease the popularity of the idiotic soaps, probably opposite. While I'm against government intrusion in general, in this case I'd be ready to ban all soaps this very instant. They are causing deaths for sure, with the viewers dumbed down to the level at which they forget to breathe.

[TommoPhysicist]

TV (Television, not this forum) as it is ought to be buried already. Even here the internet is starting to be fast enough to enable view-on-demand instead of the mindless pre-programmed brainwashing. Not that that would decrease the popularity of the idiotic soaps, probably opposite. While I'm against government intrusion in general, in this case I'd be ready to ban all soaps this very instant. They are causing deaths for sure, with the viewers dumbed down to the level at which they forget to breathe.

I quite like Thai soaps.

[maxme]

TV (Television, not this forum) as it is ought to be buried already. Even here the internet is starting to be fast enough to enable view-on-demand instead of the mindless pre-programmed brainwashing. Not that that would decrease the popularity of the idiotic soaps, probably opposite. While I'm against government intrusion in general, in this case I'd be ready to ban all soaps this very instant. They are causing deaths for sure, with the viewers dumbed down to the level at which they forget to breathe.

I quite like Thai soaps.

That's because you have nothing to once the farm work is finished for the day.

As for I-Like-Thai's seemingly polarized post... ask yourself this, if Thailand is taking inspiration from the developed society why is the Thai society still failing.

And regarding the Thai soaps, all I see is racial prejudice and creating an even more materialistic society by showing what most people in Thailand will never have.

[GuestHouse]

Not that that would decrease the popularity of the idiotic soaps, probably opposite. While I'm against government intrusion in general, in this case I'd be ready to ban all soaps this very instant.

You need to look into who it is exactly who decides what is shown on TV, it might not be the government, but it certainly is the group that are running the place.

[I Like Thai]

Thai society is starting to break down quicker and quicker with the western influence that is invading Thai society through the media and especially the internet.

I don't disagree that there are deep rooted and growing problems in Thai society, but wherever do you get the idea that these are due to the innovation of 'western influence'?

Utter hogwash!

Simply because the Western Influence is so different to the Thai culture, it causes a breakdown.

That's because you have nothing to once the farm work is finished for the day.

As for I-Like-Thai's seemingly polarized post... ask yourself this, if Thailand is taking inspiration from the developed society why is the Thai society still failing.

And regarding the Thai soaps, all I see is racial prejudice and creating an even more materialistic society by showing what most people in Thailand will never have.

I don't really believe the developed tag and i believe Thai Society it is falling simply because it is so different to what Thais are used to.

Something similar could be said about education. Why educate people so that they have the ability to learn about what they can never have or will never be.

[McMagus]

To I Like Thai

Yes, yes I know... I have been sucked in to Troll heaven by answering but .... You are venturing into one of my sacred spaces ... the education of Thais .....

I quote you ...

' Why educate people so that they have the ability to learn about what they can never have or will never be'.

You have in one sentence, summed up everything that is wrong with Thai education and Thai feudal politics and culture. In other posts I have commented on how the structure of Thai language and the rote learning in most Thai schools seems to have been designed on purpose to disenfranchise the poor and rural from access and equity in education. Indeed, why educate people so that the have the ability to learn about what they can never have....lets keep education for the rich who can afford overseas universities; for God knows no Thai uni will come close to a good western one. Lets have a system where, poor / rural parents borrow and scrape to get their kids through a university education for what? a crappy 20 000 B job if they are lucky. I know of a wonderful, intelligent young girl who worked as a teaching aide in an international school on 10 000 B /month because it was more than she could get in the open market...she had her masters in science (botany) and was working on her doctorate. Indeed, why educate the masses at all, after all, they provide cheap labour for the factories and are pretty good baby farms to complete the cycle for the next generation.

You gotta be a Troll cos no thinking person could come up with such garbage.

[GuestHouse]

Simply because the Western Influence is so different to the Thai culture, it causes a breakdown.

Once again, an un substantiated statement (AKA Utter Hogwash).

The problems of Thai society are completely Thai - They don't need western influence to drive them in the direction the society is going - Thai society is going in a direction of its own choosing, under tis own steam.

[mauGR1]

Simply because the Western Influence is so different to the Thai culture, it causes a breakdown.

Once again, an un substantiated statement (AKA Utter Hogwash).

The problems of Thai society are completely Thai - They don't need western influence to drive them in the direction the society is going - Thai society is going in a direction of its own choosing, under tis own steam.

So are you denying that a society ( or people in general ) can be influenced by external factors ?

[I Like Thai]

To I Like Thai

Yes, yes I know... I have been sucked in to Troll heaven by answering but .... You are venturing into one of my sacred spaces ... the education of Thais .....

I quote you ...

' Why educate people so that they have the ability to learn about what they can never have or will never be'.

You have in one sentence, summed up everything that is wrong with Thai education and Thai feudal politics and culture. In other posts I have commented on how the structure of Thai language and the rote learning in most Thai schools seems to have been designed on purpose to disenfranchise the poor and rural from access and equity in education. Indeed, why educate people so that the have the ability to learn about what they can never have....lets keep education for the rich who can afford overseas universities; for God knows no Thai uni will come close to a good western one. Lets have a system where, poor / rural parents borrow and scrape to get their kids through a university education for what? a crappy 20 000 B job if they are lucky. I know of a wonderful, intelligent young girl who worked as a teaching aide in an international school on 10 000 B /month because it was more than she could get in the open market...she had her masters in science (botany) and was working on her doctorate. Indeed, why educate the masses at all, after all, they provide cheap labour for the factories and are pretty good baby farms to complete the cycle for the next generation.

You gotta be a Troll cos no thinking person could come up with such garbage.

If you're going to quote me, then please quote what I say and not an edited version of it, so that it allows you to try and twist what I wrote.

I was replying to Maxme post, where I likened his post about soaps to education. Never said that I believed that rural Thais shouldn't have an education. But you knew that when you twisted my post, just so that you could do some trolling.

Maxme

And regarding the Thai soaps, all I see is racial prejudice and creating an even more materialistic society by showing what most people in Thailand will never have.

[canuckamuck]

If Thai culture is failing, I would look first to the fact that: No one takes responsibility for anything, lying is endemic, everyone passes in school, the rich are above the law, and face is more important than results. These are not things imported from the west, this is a made in Thailand problem.

[h90]

Nipples....very bad

criticize Religion....very bad

alcohol and smoking very bad as it does not exist in Thailand

blood, slaughter etc etc...no problem

[GuestHouse]

So are you denying that a society ( or people in general ) can be influenced by external factors ?

Not at all, I'm saying the destructive influences in Thai society are entirely Thai.

Alternatively give me an example of a western influence that is destroying Thai society?

I can't think of any that come from any further west than Dubai.

[maxme]

Thai society is starting to break down quicker and quicker with the western influence that is invading Thai society through the media and especially the internet.

I don't disagree that there are deep rooted and growing problems in Thai society, but wherever do you get the idea that these are due to the innovation of 'western influence'?

Utter hogwash!

Simply because the Western Influence is so different to the Thai culture, it causes a breakdown.

That's because you have nothing to once the farm work is finished for the day.

As for I-Like-Thai's seemingly polarized post... ask yourself this, if Thailand is taking inspiration from the developed society why is the Thai society still failing.

And regarding the Thai soaps, all I see is racial prejudice and creating an even more materialistic society by showing what most people in Thailand will never have.

I don't really believe the developed tag and i believe Thai Society it is falling simply because it is so different to what Thais are used to.

Something similar could be said about education. Why educate people so that they have the ability to learn about what they can never have or will never be.

Basically what you are saying is that because you went to McDonald a lot and got fat because of it... you gonna sue them.

The elite has adopted western modernities, traits and feel not because it's needed but to feel hi-so. They do this with the money that should have gone to a new education system, social welfare and new jobs. A lot of the rich or even the higher middle class don't even pay tax.

Thailand has got a substansial amount of money that is channeled through the military, the ministers down to the leader of an ampeur. Materialism will always be part of a consumer society and that's exactly what Thailand has turned into.

It's not so much that the common Somchai can't keep up with the pace of development more than it's the elite squeezing as much as they can out of the money tube. The elite or the group have no real definitive goal or a solidary purpose and this you wan't to blame on the westerners?

Honestly I think you should a deeper reading into Thai history and the structure of their society before you state such remarks.

Edited September 29, 2012 by maxme

[GuestHouse]

Importing a Fried Chicken Franchise (locked up in the hands of someone with influence), sourcing the chicken to feed the franchise from someone else (of influence) who has a monopoly on chicken production in Thailand while not importing the critical discussion on free markets,m competition, consumer rights, food health/public health, is not importing western values.

Its importing western technology, western management of production, western management of distribution - locking it up in the hands of a very small and influential clique while excluding any challenges to their control and power over the market.

Entirely Thai !

[mauGR1]

So are you denying that a society ( or people in general ) can be influenced by external factors ?

Not at all, I'm saying the destructive influences in Thai society are entirely Thai.

Alternatively give me an example of a western influence that is destroying Thai society?

I can't think of any that come from any further west than Dubai.

Well i cannot think of anything that is entirely good or bad, but IMHO, technology in general is a divisive factor in any society.

I am not saying that technology is bad either, as destruction of old values is necessary for the creation of new values.

Well, my point is that tv, telephones and internet are accelerating a process that would happen anyway, i pity the older people who cannot cope with changes happening so fast.

[maxme]

So are you denying that a society ( or people in general ) can be influenced by external factors ?

Not at all, I'm saying the destructive influences in Thai society are entirely Thai.

Alternatively give me an example of a western influence that is destroying Thai society?

I can't think of any that come from any further west than Dubai.

Well i cannot think of anything that is entirely good or bad, but IMHO, technology in general is a divisive factor in any society.

I am not saying that technology is bad either, as destruction of old values is necessary for the creation of new values.

Well, my point is that tv, telephones and internet are accelerating a process that would happen anyway, i pity the older people who cannot cope with changes happening so fast.

Social welfare, elderly care, pensions even for those in private sector, solidarity, labor laws, human rights, animal rights etc etc. I think it's more about concepts of what an society should strive after than it's about technology.

Materialism exists everywhere but I've never seen it implemented at this rate in a developing country such as Thailand. There are many other issues to deal with than keeping up with the technology.

But for that I'm afraid you have to explain the concept of a concept to an Elite and that is utterly pointless.

Edited September 29, 2012 by maxme

[GuestHouse]

There's a very instructive book doing the rounds in Thailand on the development of a self-sufficient and just society. It is in truth a translation of a book first published in the US.

The instructive bit in the book is the omission to translate and include the chapter on the necessary qualities of an educational system to develop a self-sufficient and just society.

[rattler]

I prefer Red to Green, Oh sorry I thought it said "grape"

[maxme]

There's a very instructive book doing the rounds in Thailand on the development of a self-sufficient and just society. It is in truth a translation of a book first published in the US.

The instructive bit in the book is the omission to translate and include the chapter on the necessary qualities of an educational system to develop a self-sufficient and just society.

I have to ask... do you have a copy?

[Shotime]

"In real life people don't always get their come-uppance. But you missed the point, children (in particular) watching unsuitable material are mentally being programmed to copy what they see and hear,and will get the impression that this is normal for people to behave in this manner!"

It's an interesting topic. Troll or not. I always wondered what influences childern, and I believe it starts at home. What they see growing up is what they consider "normal." TV, the internet, video games only can enhance what is already imprinted in them by what they see at home. Domestic violence, sexual abuse, sociopaths are created at home. If their is abuse at home, the influences they are later exposed to have little affect.

How much domestic violence is there in Thailand? I have no idea, but I was always surprised that their wasn't more.

[maxme]

"In real life people don't always get their come-uppance. But you missed the point, children (in particular) watching unsuitable material are mentally being programmed to copy what they see and hear,and will get the impression that this is normal for people to behave in this manner!"

It's an interesting topic. Troll or not. I always wondered what influences childern, and I believe it starts at home. What they see growing up is what they consider "normal." TV, the internet, video games only can enhance what is already imprinted in them by what they see at home. Domestic violence, sexual abuse, sociopaths are created at home. If their is abuse at home, the influences they are later exposed to have little affect.

How much domestic violence is there in Thailand? I have no idea, but I was always surprised that their wasn't more.

How many of these crimes are reported to non-caring, corrupt and lazy police officials do you think?

[canuckamuck]

"In real life people don't always get their come-uppance. But you missed the point, children (in particular) watching unsuitable material are mentally being programmed to copy what they see and hear,and will get the impression that this is normal for people to behave in this manner!"

It's an interesting topic. Troll or not. I always wondered what influences childern, and I believe it starts at home. What they see growing up is what they consider "normal." TV, the internet, video games only can enhance what is already imprinted in them by what they see at home. Domestic violence, sexual abuse, sociopaths are created at home. If their is abuse at home, the influences they are later exposed to have little affect.

How much domestic violence is there in Thailand? I have no idea, but I was always surprised that their wasn't more.

More than what, considering you don't know how much there is. The ladies in the villages get their share of knocks, no statistics will be found however.

[Shotime]

"In real life people don't always get their come-uppance. But you missed the point, children (in particular) watching unsuitable material are mentally being programmed to copy what they see and hear,and will get the impression that this is normal for people to behave in this manner!"

It's an interesting topic. Troll or not. I always wondered what influences childern, and I believe it starts at home. What they see growing up is what they consider "normal." TV, the internet, video games only can enhance what is already imprinted in them by what they see at home. Domestic violence, sexual abuse, sociopaths are created at home. If their is abuse at home, the influences they are later exposed to have little affect.

How much domestic violence is there in Thailand? I have no idea, but I was always surprised that their wasn't more.

More than what, considering you don't know how much there is. The ladies in the villages get their share of knocks, no statistics will be found however.

More Thai sociopaths. Excluding politicians, of course.

[McMagus]

To I LIKE THAI

I tried to include all the quotes but got the message that I had included too many. I am the first to admit if I have made a misteak mistake but from your posts, you seem to be laying the blame for the problems in Thailand at the feet of the west, because it shows Thais what they cannot have. My interpretation of your post was that although you were referring to a quote from MAXME, you were extending that idea to include education. I am glad to hear that you do not believe that educating Thais will only make them want what they cannot have or be.

[bangkockney]

No, there's none of that in British soaps is there? No man-on-man rape in a soap aimed at teens, no people being murdered in pubs, or buried under the patio, no hitman stabbings, violent murders, cover-ups, beating of women. No affairs, quickies in alleys or anything, all before the watershed......

Comparing other Countries with Thailand is a weak argument,and certainly doesn't excuse the issue in any way.

This is a logical fallacy.

Actually it is not a logical fallacy - ( If you disagree with that feel free to explain which of the logical fallacies you believe the statement falls under).

Meanwhile, in a discussion on the specific subject of Thai TV soaps, the argument that Soaps anywhere else in the world are flawed, hence by implication it is acceptable for Thai soaps to be flawed ( and criticism of Thai soaps not justified/not accepable) is a logical fallacy on several fronts.

"Two wrongs make ar right" ++

Both a paralogism and an argumentum ad captandum.

You've assumed I think soaps in the rest of the world are flawed or indeed that Thai soaps are flawed. I said no such thing nor implied it.

[bangkockney]

It has been shown that the effect of media is indirect not direct as you assert.

The effect of media to change people's thinking, choices and behaviour is not a matter of debate in the advertising industry.

Highly debatable in today's world.

There's a strong push for a new marketing mix. TV advertising is losing its effectiveness due to clutter, tune out, reduced TV watching, channel skipping, ad skipping, catch up etc etc. The days of mass marketing are rapidly passing us by.

Many companies are in a catch 22: they must occupy the same space as their competitors, not because of profit maximising principles.

Plenty of detail about this in recent academic texts.