My Wife Wants To Leave The Uk And Go Back To Thailand

[Farside]

Ok, So after all my hard work and struggling to survive on the uk national minimum wage i finally got my wife her spouse settlement visa 3 years ago then her ILR after that. Now my wife tells me she wants to go back to thailand and take our 4 month old son with her, She's really pissing me off, Blackmailing me for things and when i say no i can't afford it she says she'll take my son away to thailand.

She has rich friends on her fb (Her ex customers from bars/clubs she worked at!) who will pay for her flights tickets, So funds are covered for her which is another stress for me. I don't want to lose my son, What can i do? She has her ILR already so can come and go at her leisure as many times as she wants, She'll need to get a new thai passport middle of next year though if she stays that long because it'll run out then, My son doesn't have a passport yet as he is still a young baby, Does anyone on here know legally what my rights are and what i can do?

Is there anything i can legally do to stop my son from being taking away from me to Thailand? It's really breaking my heart

Sorry but i didn't know what forum to place this in as thaivisa doesn't look to have a legal section...

[Danielsiam]

The baby are Thai or not also ? if the baby are only British, she can't take the baby outside of UK without your consent.

But she can ask a Thai Birth Certificate for the kid, with transcription of British Birth Certificate to Thai Embassy and after that ask a Thai passport for the kid & leave UK.

( I'm not british , I don't know how is work at your country .. )

So I think if you don't want your child go away from UK, let she can't do any documents of baby & you prevent the immigration British Police to don't let the kid go outside of UK !

Edited October 6, 2012 by Danielsiam

[Farside]

The baby are Thai or not also ? if the baby are only British, she can't take the baby outside of UK without your consent.

But she can ask a Thai Birth Certificate for the kid, with transcription of British Birth Certificate to Thai Embassy and after that ask a Thai passport for the kid & leave UK.

( I'm not british , I don't know how is work at your country .. )

So I think if you don't want your child go away from UK, let she can't do any documents of baby & you prevent the immigration British Police to don't let the kid go outside of UK !

The baby is half thai, half english, he was born here in the uk, i'm not sure but i think it would be illegal for me the withold the babies documents from my wife. I do have his birth certificate but a copy can be easily gotten by my wife as it is held on the government database.

[stoneyboy]

Minimum wage,scares the shit out of Thai women,good luck.

[vijer]

Best you contact a barrister in the UK, TV can only give you basic information at best. If the UK is similar to the US you would be best to document (hidden video/audio) of the wife blackmailing you. This you could use in a court to prove she should not be allowed to take your child out of the country. Custody wouldn't even help you if she gets out of the country how would they proceed to get her to return with the baby to the UK. Better if she isn't allowed to leave with the baby in the first place.

Edited October 6, 2012 by vijer

[Farside]

Minimum wage,scares the shit out of Thai women,good luck.

true! but she knew this before she married me... they way i see it is that the child is a lot better off here in the uk rather then a poor third world country. Here he has 2 parents who love him, He'll never be hungry, he has lots of toys, he'll get a good education and health service.

[Danielsiam]

I see, as she're the mother she have right and she can ask the one more of one UK Birth Certificate of this kid, and with that she can ask the transcription to the Thai Embassy. But I don't know if it's required more documents like the consent of father, or birth certificate of father at the Thai Embassy..

I request to know from people here or Thai Embassy by just e-mail, how is working for make a transcription to the Thai Embassy, then you you can block his path at the mother, if it's the possible.

Anyway, it's be good if you go to the Border UK Police and ask for potentially illegal move of child outside the UK from the mother.. Don't forget the child ARE UK and BORN in UK, so, you've plenty of right at your kid, and you've a 50 % of custody anyway, if I'm not wrong.

THE MOST DANGEROUS : She can get a Thai passport for the kid, and go away with kid with them Thai passport ( and UK Police can't do anything, maybe )

Need to meet a lawyer as soon !

Edited October 6, 2012 by Danielsiam

[Farside]

Best you contact a barrister in the UK, TV can only give you basic information at best. If the UK is similar to the US you would be best to document (hidden video/audio) of the wife blackmailing you. This you could use in a court to prove she should not be allowed to take your child out of the country. Custody wouldn't even help you if she gets out of the country how would they proceed to get her to return with the baby to the UK. Better if she isn't allowed to leave with the baby in the first place.

Yes i'll defo be trying to get it recorded

Not sure how i'd legally stop her getting out the country, I have her passport in my safe as i wanted it somewhere really safe because it has the ILR in it, but all she'd have to do is call the cops and they'd arrest me if i didn't give it back to her.

[Farside]

I see, as she're the mother she have right and she can ask the one more of one UK Birth Certificate of this kid, and with that she can ask the transcription to the Thai Embassy. But I don't know if it's required more documents like the consent of father, or birth certificate of father..

I request to know from people here or Thai Embassy by just e-mail, how is working for make a transcription to the Thai Embassy, then you you can block his path at the mother, if it's the possible.

Anyway, it's be good if you go to the Border UK Police and ask for potentially illegal move of child outside the UK from the mother.. Don't forget the child ARE UK and BORN in UK, so, you've plenty of right at your kid, and you've a 50 % of custody anyway, if I'm not wrong.

THE MOST DANGEROUS : She can get a Thai passport for the kid, and go away with kid with them Thai passport ( and UK Police can't do anything, maybe )

Need to meet a lawyer as soon !

Thank Dan

[samran]

There is a lot of misinformation here.

I don't know about UK passports, but Thai passports certainly need BOTH parents to sign for them, in person. I would expect the UK passport to be the same though.

I also know (vaugely) that for a child to travel, if there a concern that the child is going to be abducted, then the relevant authorties can place a block on that childs travel. But you'll need legal advice on that matter.

One thing to note is that Thailand is not a party to the Haugue Convention which covers matters of child abduction - so your best chance to fight this is while still in the UK.

[nontabury]

There is a lot of misinformation here.

I don't know about UK passports, but Thai passports certainly need BOTH parents to sign for them, in person. I would expect the UK passport to be the same though.

I also know (vaugely) that for a child to travel, if there a concern that the child is going to be abducted, then the relevant authorties can place a block on that childs travel. But you'll need legal advice on that matter.

One thing to note is that Thailand is not a party to the Haugue Convention which covers matters of child abduction - so your best chance to fight this is while still in the UK.

Maybe the application for a child's Thai passport is SUPPOSED to be signed by both parents, but there have been occasions

Were the Thai mother has managed to obtain the Thai passport without the signature of the farang parent, this is a fact.

You are correct when you state that Thailand is not a party to the Haugue convention, so he must make sure she doesn't

Take the child out of the country, if she does, the chances are he will never see his son again.If it was the opposite way around,the UK courts would send the child back to Thailand, but the chance of a Thai court ordering a child to be returned to the UK is about zero.

[Eff1n2ret]

I don't know about UK passports, but Thai passports certainly need BOTH parents to sign for them, in person. I would expect the UK passport to be the same though.

Doesn't look like it - the OP should read this page :- http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Passports/Applyingforaneworrenewedchildpassport/DG_174106 -

where it says that the Identity and Passport Service will issue a passport for a child to either parent. This can be stopped by a court order. He should consult a solicitor immediately to protect himself with regard to this matter, also with regard to his general situation. If she is bombarding him with unreasonable demands for money it's entirely possible the next request will be for a divorce and a share of his assets.

[bobrussell]

Any family solicitor should be able to cope with this situation. If you consider the threat to be immediate you should apply for an injunction and prohibited steps order which will prevent the child being taken from the country without the permission of the courts.

If this is breached then it is a criminal offence carrying a possible prison sentence. Longer term a residency order will clarify what is and is not allowed.

Get this done (via your solicitor) ASAP or anything else they advise then the pressure is off until things get sorted out properly!

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Lookingafterchildrenifyoudivorceorseparate/Lookingafterchildrenifyourrelationshipends/DG_192873

[paully]

Farside,

It depends how far you wish to take this. Do you want the child to live with you in the UK or do you just want regular contact?

It is possible to apply to the (normally High in cases like these) court (as an emergency, if appropriate) for a Prohibited Steps Order under section 8 of the Children Act 1989. The Prohibited Step is to take the child out of the jurisdiction of the UK without your permission or the court's permission. The application would normally be accompanied by one for a Residence Order (for the child to live with you) of a Contact Order (for the child to have regular contact with you) under the same section. You would need to have a lawyer, these are not straightforward applications, and be prepared for it to be a lengthy and acrimonious battle.

[paully]

If this is breached then it is a criminal offence carrying a possible prison sentence.

Not a criminal offence in point of fact, bob - but contempt of court (ie breach of an order) which enables a judge to imprison the contemnor for up to 2 years. Judges do take these things very seriously though.

The court can seize and hold her passport if there is real evidence that she will do a runner with the child.

[bobrussell]

If this is breached then it is a criminal offence carrying a possible prison sentence.

Not a criminal offence in point of fact, bob - but contempt of court (ie breach of an order) which enables a judge to imprison the contemnor for up to 2 years. Judges do take these things very seriously though.

The court can seize and hold her passport if there is real evidence that she will do a runner with the child.

Quite right! Very poorly written by me, I apologise!

We have spent the last 18 months dealing with residency orders, prohibited steps orders etc for my niece so I do know better!

Edited October 8, 2012 by bobrussell

[paully]

your best chance to fight this is while still in the UK.

Absolutely right.

[paully]

We have spent the last 18 months dealing with residency orders, prohibited steps orders etc for my niece

They are quite a process - I once represented a Chilean lady who wanted to take her child out of the UK (we were eventually successful but it took the best part of a year).

Hope it worked out well for you, bob.

[MrRed]

To the Op get as much evidence of her unrealistic demands as you can now including anything that you may feel you can show to a court later.

Unreasonble behaviour from her could lead to her doing a runner,so better prepare for anything today ,cover your arse and your childs future.

Good luck.

[bobrussell]

We have spent the last 18 months dealing with residency orders, prohibited steps orders etc for my niece

They are quite a process - I once represented a Chilean lady who wanted to take her child out of the UK (we were eventually successful but it took the best part of a year).

Hope it worked out well for you, bob.

Worked out perfectly - thanks!

[Basil B]

Read this: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Lookingafterchildrenifyoudivorceorseparate/Lookingafterchildrenifyourrelationshipends/DG_192873

But any court order will always put the child's best interest first, beware that as much as you think it is in the child's best interest for you to have custody so he stays in the UK, the courts could decide that he is better off with his mother even if that is in Thailand.

One question, is your marriage so far down the pan you can not try to save it?

[MAJIC]

You can listen to all the advice you want on this Forum, but really you need to see a British Solicitor as soon as possible.

Normally they will give you 30 minutes of free advice,pending further action. A professional is the only one who can legally advise you of your best course of action,under British Law.

At the end of the day should Court action be necessary,the Judge will decide which of you is in the best position to look after the Child,the Childs best interests is paramount in cases such as yours. And your child having been born in the UK is a British Citizen,as well as Thai.

A British Birth Certificate can be easily be obtained at your nearest Registry office. And a British Passport for the Child is also easy to get. Another good source of information is your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

I wish you good Luck.

Footnote: I have assumed your child is joint British and Thai,(Dual Nationality) with your Thai wife?

Edited October 8, 2012 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

There is a lot of misinformation here.

I don't know about UK passports, but Thai passports certainly need BOTH parents to sign for them, in person. I would expect the UK passport to be the same though.

I also know (vaugely) that for a child to travel, if there a concern that the child is going to be abducted, then the relevant authorties can place a block on that childs travel. But you'll need legal advice on that matter.

One thing to note is that Thailand is not a party to the Haugue Convention which covers matters of child abduction - so your best chance to fight this is while still in the UK.

Maybe the application for a child's Thai passport is SUPPOSED to be signed by both parents, but there have been occasions

Were the Thai mother has managed to obtain the Thai passport without the signature of the farang parent, this is a fact.

You are correct when you state that Thailand is not a party to the Haugue convention, so he must make sure she doesn't

Take the child out of the country, if she does, the chances are he will never see his son again.If it was the opposite way around,the UK courts would send the child back to Thailand, but the chance of a Thai court ordering a child to be returned to the UK is about zero.

Pure Conjecture,you have no idea what a UK Court would decide,in relation to a British Citizen i.e the Child!

[nontabury]

There is a lot of misinformation here.

I don't know about UK passports, but Thai passports certainly need BOTH parents to sign for them, in person. I would expect the UK passport to be the same though.

I also know (vaugely) that for a child to travel, if there a concern that the child is going to be abducted, then the relevant authorties can place a block on that childs travel. But you'll need legal advice on that matter.

One thing to note is that Thailand is not a party to the Haugue Convention which covers matters of child abduction - so your best chance to fight this is while still in the UK.

Maybe the application for a child's Thai passport is SUPPOSED to be signed by both parents, but there have been occasions

Were the Thai mother has managed to obtain the Thai passport without the signature of the farang parent, this is a fact.

You are correct when you state that Thailand is not a party to the Haugue convention, so he must make sure she doesn't

Take the child out of the country, if she does, the chances are he will never see his son again.If it was the opposite way around,the UK courts would send the child back to Thailand, but the chance of a Thai court ordering a child to be returned to the UK is about zero.

Pure Conjecture,you have no idea what a UK Court would decide,in relation to a British Citizen i.e the Child!

Unless the father could prove that the mother is an unfit person to take care of the child,the UK court will nearly Allways

Side with the mother,and they would not stand in her way,if she wished to bring him to Thailand.

One good thing about the children's courts here in Thailand,is that the father,including farang fathers seem to have a better

Chance of either obtaining sole custody or at least joint custody.Just my observation.

[meatboy]

Read this: http://www.direct.go...pends/DG_192873

But any court order will always put the child's best interest first, beware that as much as you think it is in the child's best interest for you to have custody so he stays in the UK, the courts could decide that he is better off with his mother even if that is in Thailand.

One question, is your marriage so far down the pan you can not try to save it?

this is what happens when thai girls think that all farangs are rich and their dreams have come true.one thing i dont think a court in the uk will decide the child is better off with the mother unless she has grounds against you for mistreatment,from what you have posted about money being in short supply i would bet she is talking to other thai's who love to give her the wrong advice.make sure you write every thing down on paper what she has been doing and what she is planning,and one of the strongest arguments you have against her taking the child is once she is back in thailand the kid will no longer be hers but will be left with her parents to bring up.without funds it is going to be hard for you so go and see a family lawyer,citizens advice bureau should be able to arange this.good luck and get rid of her,one final question do you have someone who will look after your child when you are in work.

[Mario2008]

Thailand is a signatory to the treaty on parental abduction. In practise, it is hard to get the Thai authorities to act when a child (also) has Thai nationalities.

A sollicitor or citizens advice buereau can give the best advise about the OP's legal options.

Custody awared to the mother would still require that the mother takes care of the child personally, she can not leave the child in the care of relatives and herself move to another place while the father would be willing to take care of the child. Either she takes care of the child or the father does.

[Mario2008]

1 post giving illegal advise deleted.

[MAJIC]

There is a lot of misinformation here.

I don't know about UK passports, but Thai passports certainly need BOTH parents to sign for them, in person. I would expect the UK passport to be the same though.

I also know (vaugely) that for a child to travel, if there a concern that the child is going to be abducted, then the relevant authorties can place a block on that childs travel. But you'll need legal advice on that matter.

One thing to note is that Thailand is not a party to the Haugue Convention which covers matters of child abduction - so your best chance to fight this is while still in the UK.

Maybe the application for a child's Thai passport is SUPPOSED to be signed by both parents, but there have been occasions

Were the Thai mother has managed to obtain the Thai passport without the signature of the farang parent, this is a fact.

You are correct when you state that Thailand is not a party to the Haugue convention, so he must make sure she doesn't

Take the child out of the country, if she does, the chances are he will never see his son again.If it was the opposite way around,the UK courts would send the child back to Thailand, but the chance of a Thai court ordering a child to be returned to the UK is about zero.

Pure Conjecture,you have no idea what a UK Court would decide,in relation to a British Citizen i.e the Child!

Unless the father could prove that the mother is an unfit person to take care of the child,the UK court will nearly Allways

Side with the mother,and they would not stand in her way,if she wished to bring him to Thailand.

One good thing about the children's courts here in Thailand,is that the father,including farang fathers seem to have a better

Chance of either obtaining sole custody or at least joint custody.Just my observation.

There is a large element of truth in what you say in the highlighted 2 lines above.But the main element of doubt is that a Court who favoured the Mother,could not guarantee that the child would be better off living in another Country,and the Court would need to prove she has the means to look after the child.and then there would be the difficulties of the fathers right to access,and consideration be made that the child has never lived in Thailand (as far as I know).And there are many things for a Judge to consider in this case,that are not obvious.

[paully]

There is a large element of truth in what you say in the highlighted 2 lines above.But the main element of doubt is that a Court who favoured the Mother,could not guarantee that the child would be better off living in another Country,and the Court would need to prove she has the means to look after the child.and then there would be the difficulties of the fathers right to access,and consideration be made that the child has never lived in Thailand (as far as I know).And there are many things for a Judge to consider in this case,that are not obvious.

What the court would hear, in effect, is two different sets of plans for the child, one provided by each parent: where it is proposed that he lives, what plans there are for his education, who will actually do the caring for him (the father/mother or grandparents), what plans there are for contact with the parent he does not live with and, of course, which country it is proposed that he lives in. Evidence about the quality of care (or lack of it) likely to be given by each parent can be taken into account. The court's first duty is for the welfare of the child, but it essentially comes down to whose plan is more convincing to the judge, the father's or the mother's. There is no such thing as a 'guarantee' that a child will be better off, merely more convincing evidence of the same presented to the judge. The court does not have to 'prove' anything, it is the parties (mother and father) who have to show that the child is better off with him/her. Normally it is more difficult for a father to succeed where the child is as young as he is here, but it is not impossible for the OP to do this.

[bobrussell]

In a court case dealing with residency etc the parents are considered of more minor importance. They deal with what is considered best for the child. All relevent parties will have a chance to be heard but the Judge ultimately decides what is in the childs best interests.

This may, indeed allow a mother (or father) to take the child to live abroad but the court will need to see convincing evidence that the child will be properly cared for.

How does your wife intend to pay for the childs upkeep? Does she have a good job to go to? Maintenance is difficult enough to claim from an absent parent in the UK let alone from the other side of the world. The court will need this and a lot of other evidence before allowing a child to reside abroad if one parent objects.

When any relationship breaks down the world tends to go a little mad for those involved so my advice (for what it is worth!) is get legal advice and take steps to ensure the child cannot leave the country until the courts have deemed it best for the child (if they do!).

There is going to be lots of time for everyone to reflect on things because these matters often/usually take months to resolve.

Edited October 9, 2012 by bobrussell