Living Near Gas Pipelines In Thailand: Is It A 'low' Risk?

[Keesters]

I have only said that safety is of low priority here.

Never said you did say any of those quotes, commenting generally based on some of the posts that have been made

Is safety a low priority as related to O&G ?, seeing as this is topic...My belief based on over 25 years in game in many countries, Thailand approach to safety in O&G is no better or no worse than that of 1st world countries....could they have a big bang in Thailand...yes of course

if you are talking about a general approach to safety in Thailand i.e. the way people drive on the roads, Mr Somchai no helmet etc etc, then I am not going to disagree with you, from that perspective then yes safety is a low priority is Thailand

You shouldn't quote my post to comment on what others may or may not have said.

Yes safety, in all things, is of low priority here..and THAT is all I have ever said plus IMO living near those pipes is more high than low risk.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Keesters

[Soutpeel]

[You shouldn't answer on behalf of somebody else (Barty). Let them do that.

It is not the what they are doing as to more the how they are doing it. I still hold my opinion that living near these pipes is more high risk than low. Safety standards in Thailand are shocking low.

How are they doing what ever it is they are doing ?..your talking in riddles

As regards answering on behalf "Barty" again I will say stop being silly...the service his company provides the HDD, of course he will not guarantee the integrity of a pipeline installed 30 years ago or last week for that matter, no company installing/maintaining/operating a pipe line guarantees anything...Does Honda, Toyota, BMW or Aston Martin guarantee your car will never break down ?...there are no guarantee's in life only death and in some cases taxes.

Is living next to transmission line in Thailand any more dangerous than living next to transmission line in the US, UK or other so called 1st world country....in my opinion.... No....does this mean at some point there will not be a possible accident...no it doesnt...you are being very naive.

[Estrada]

Industry standard for depth then and today worldwide is 1.5 m of cover, never worked on a line anywhere that had 3.5m of cover. Again some "official" pulling numbers out of thin air

You cant be correct, a resident TV expert has said this is Thai mentality not international standard..

They cut all the corners on construction, there are no international standards applied....TV finest have spoken

This is Thai mentality. The company believes risks are not high for explosion. But why take the chance? Because it is much cheaper at 1.5 meter.

I agree too many armchair experts on TV.

I was involved in laying 6,500kms of pipeline in Libya and the cover to international standards dictated by Haliburton/Brown & Root was 1.5metres, As regards to the standards used by PTT when laying the pipeline 32 years ago, they were then in a JV with Shell Oil who were behind the engineering and QC. I have worked on 1,000s of Oil Company installations worldwide and Shell were the most safety conscious of the lot. The original design life may have been 25 years but this would assume a worse possible corrosion rate. With an adequate corrosion protection system they could last in theory forever i.e. if no corrosion. PTT are monitoring the lines and presumably changing the sacrifical anodes when necessary so a 50 year actual service life is very possible. The risk of explosion is extremely low near the pipeline, however if you are near any valve or regulating stations then your property should be sited at a good distcance away.

[Keesters]

[You shouldn't answer on behalf of somebody else (Barty). Let them do that.

It is not the what they are doing as to more the how they are doing it. I still hold my opinion that living near these pipes is more high risk than low. Safety standards in Thailand are shocking low.

How are they doing what ever it is they are doing ?..your talking in riddles

As regards answering on behalf "Barty" again I will say stop being silly...the service his company provides the HDD, of course he will not guarantee the integrity of a pipeline installed 30 years ago or last week for that matter, no company installing/maintaining/operating a pipe line guarantees anything...Does Honda, Toyota, BMW or Aston Martin guarantee your car will never break down ?...there are no guarantee's in life only death and in some cases taxes.

Is living next to transmission line in Thailand any more dangerous than living next to transmission line in the US, UK or other so called 1st world country....in my opinion.... No....does this mean at some point there will not be a possible accident...no it doesnt...you are being very naive.

How do you not understand "It is not the what they are doing as to more the how they are doing it." Very common English usage. The what could be "you're digging a hole in the road" the how "you're using a spoon to do it". That is just an example of the usage and not to be taken as literal in this threads respect. I'll leave it up to you to apply it to the maintainence of the pipes.

You are the one being silly answering on behalf of other people. How do you know what he would say? Tell me where you bought your crystal ball? Plus you obviously haven't understood the question to be rhetorical.

Now you're talking about transmission lines, the USA and the UK all of which have nothing to do with this thread and most certainly have nothing to do with anything I've said.

I repeat my first post which I suggest you read time and time again til you understand.

Living Near Gas Pipelines In Thailand: Is It A 'low' Risk?

No, it is, IMO, high risk. Safety is the last concern of officials, contractors etc here. Money comes first....safety last.

That is all I had and have to say on the matter..the rest is all immaterial and brought on by your constant misquotes and changing of subject as well of course your speaking for others.

[scotto]

All is good imho,

Although would not want to be around a gas pipeline

when a thai is doing a hot tap might just be a little too dahgerous for me

having done hundreds of hot taps with gas ,oil,chemicals, and water

going through them live i no how dangerous it can be!

[Soutpeel]

[You shouldn't answer on behalf of somebody else (Barty). Let them do that.

It is not the what they are doing as to more the how they are doing it. I still hold my opinion that living near these pipes is more high risk than low. Safety standards in Thailand are shocking low.

How are they doing what ever it is they are doing ?..your talking in riddles

As regards answering on behalf "Barty" again I will say stop being silly...the service his company provides the HDD, of course he will not guarantee the integrity of a pipeline installed 30 years ago or last week for that matter, no company installing/maintaining/operating a pipe line guarantees anything...Does Honda, Toyota, BMW or Aston Martin guarantee your car will never break down ?...there are no guarantee's in life only death and in some cases taxes.

Is living next to transmission line in Thailand any more dangerous than living next to transmission line in the US, UK or other so called 1st world country....in my opinion.... No....does this mean at some point there will not be a possible accident...no it doesnt...you are being very naive.

How do you not understand "It is not the what they are doing as to more the how they are doing it." Very common English usage. The what could be "you're digging a hole in the road" the how "you're using a spoon to do it". That is just an example of the usage and not to be taken as literal in this threads respect. I'll leave it up to you to apply it to the maintainence of the pipes.

You are the one being silly answering on behalf of other people. How do you know what he would say? Tell me where you bought your crystal ball? Plus you obviously haven't understood the question to be rhetorical.

Now you're talking about transmission lines, the USA and the UK all of which have nothing to do with this thread and most certainly have nothing to do with anything I've said.

I repeat my first post which I suggest you read time and time again til you understand.

Living Near Gas Pipelines In Thailand: Is It A 'low' Risk?

No, it is, IMO, high risk. Safety is the last concern of officials, contractors etc here. Money comes first....safety last.

That is all I had and have to say on the matter..the rest is all immaterial and brought on by your constant misquotes and changing of subject as well of course your speaking for others.

Thank you for the expert knowlege you have brought to this dicussion and the English lesson, be sure to use it in tomorrow class..

[Soutpeel]

All is good imho,

Although would not want to be around a gas pipeline

when a thai is doing a hot tap might just be a little too dahgerous for me

having done hundreds of hot taps with gas ,oil,chemicals, and water

going through them live i no how dangerous it can be!

When there is hot taps scheduled, irrespective who is doing it, I try to make sure I am not around and preferbly 100 miles away...

[cup-O-coffee]

Not that I disagree, but realistically there already seem to be more than enough forks in the fire to keep all resources and manpower busy into the next millennium. That a lot of these problems could be resolved simply by paying foreign companies to come in and fix them is a moot point. That the Thais will refuse to allow this to happen is also a moot point, and instead bungle their own solutions until the legitimate concerns and problems are ten times greater in proportion at present.

Who do you think is doing these transmissions lines now in your vast experience of Thailands pipe line construction ?

"kwonitoy" correct me if I wrong but believe NACAP is an international pipe line construction/maintenance company is it not ?...

and who is doing the construction in Thailand...believe it's NACAP if i am not mistaken ?

@ 'cup-O-coffee'....Thats your expert opinion shot to sh*t

If that is true, then please accept my apologies for being uninformed on this. Thank you.

It seems odd not to have mentioned that in the OP, does it not?

Edited October 8, 2012 by cup-O-coffee

[F4UCorsair]

Some people are not going to be convinced Soutpeel.

I go through a similar scenario with people doubting aviation maintenance done in China. The facilities are massive, overseen (if not owned) by Boeing and Airbus, and the maintenance is supervised, and signed off, by the client airlines' own engineers/mechanics. But still people cast doubt on the standards.

The sole reason it's being done in China is labor cost. When a major service can involve thousands of hours' labor, there is a lot of merit in flying the aircraft to China, and paying $2.00 an hour rather than $40 and hour!!

Edited October 8, 2012 by F4UCorsair

[Barty]

I said IMO, to which I'm entitled. Anyone who has lived in Thailand, if only a short period of time, would know that safety is a very low priority here. Haven't you read some local newspapers or are you just blowing out your ar_se? I don't see why Thailand's O&G industry would be any different from any other Thailand industry....it is the Thailand bit that makes the difference.

I seen a few of these threads about PTT and pipelines in Thailand and I usually ignore them, but in this case I feel I need to step up in PTTs defence. I own a Horizontal Directional Drilling company here in Thailand. More than 90% of my work is for PTT. We install gas pipelines from 4" up to 42" using HDD and have been doing it here in Thailand for nearly 14 years. The safety standards are as good as anywhere else in the world. Large projects have international consultants such as Bechtel overseeing the design and construction. The pipelines here in Thailand are as safe as anywhere else in the western world.

That's good to know with regard to the pipes you've laid in the last 14 years. But installing them is different from maintaining them. Some of the pipes in question are over 30 years old. Are you guaranteeing those to be in good condition?

You know, we could go around and around about this but I guess everyone has an opinion and they don't always match. All I can tell you is what I have experienced first hand after working with PTT for nearly 20 years. They are a professional organization that installs and maintains their pipelines and facilities to a high standard. They have billions of dollars worth of equipment and pipelines and it is within their best interest to look after their investment.

When is the last time that you heard about a PTT pipeline that had a leak or an explosion due to the way the pipe was installed or due to maintenance? When was the first time?

[Barty]

All is good imho,

Although would not want to be around a gas pipeline

when a thai is doing a hot tap might just be a little too dahgerous for me

having done hundreds of hot taps with gas ,oil,chemicals, and water

going through them live i no how dangerous it can be!

When there is hot taps scheduled, irrespective who is doing it, I try to make sure I am not around and preferbly 100 miles away...

I have been involved with a few hot taps here in Thailand. The standard to which the Thai companies do it is the same as in the west. All of the hot tapping equipment is made by western companies and is operated within their parameters. Everything is engineered and reviewed by consultants. A hot tap undertaken here in Thailand would probably be no different than one being done in California.

Having said that I agree with Soutpeel, it's good to be somewhere else while they are going on.

[Barty]

Not that I disagree, but realistically there already seem to be more than enough forks in the fire to keep all resources and manpower busy into the next millennium. That a lot of these problems could be resolved simply by paying foreign companies to come in and fix them is a moot point. That the Thais will refuse to allow this to happen is also a moot point, and instead bungle their own solutions until the legitimate concerns and problems are ten times greater in proportion at present.

Who do you think is doing these transmissions lines now in your vast experience of Thailands pipe line construction ?

"kwonitoy" correct me if I wrong but believe NACAP is an international pipe line construction/maintenance company is it not ?...

and who is doing the construction in Thailand...believe it's NACAP if i am not mistaken ?

@ 'cup-O-coffee'....Thats your expert opinion shot to sh*t

If that is true, then please accept my apologies for being uninformed on this. Thank you.

It seems odd not to have mentioned that in the OP, does it not?

Nacap no longer have operation in the Asia Pacific area. They are operating in Australia and Europe. They last worked in Thailand on the Sai Noi project which ended a few years ago.

The pipeline that is being installed along highway 331 is the Forth Transmission Pipeline. It is a 42" pipe and is being installed by Punj Lloyd.

[Peterpatch]

In Canada and northern US, just about every street has a gas pipeline running down the street that connect to almost every house to run the furnace or for cooking. Natural gas is something new to Thailand and what peaple dont understand they will fear. This is just fear mongering by some politician and the Nation Newspaper. Yes, there have been terrible pipeline accidents but there are also car accidents that kill an average of what..30 -40 per day in Thailand? But we are not going to stop driving now are we.

[scotto]

Barty

I love that line you quoted

"everything is engineered and reviewed by consultants"

that are too scared to stand near an actual hot tap in progress but can

later on say yep alls good when they are finished the hot tap even though

they probably have never actually done one themselves this makes me laugh.

[Soutpeel]

Natural gas is something new to Thailand and what peaple dont understand they will fear.

If you mean by new, nearly 50 years, then I guess its new..the first gas production from the gulf of Thailand was in the mid 70's, developed by Union Oil as it was then... PTT/ BG/Total may have been earlier not certain on that one

[Soutpeel]

Some people are not going to be convinced Soutpeel.

I am not a Thai apologist by a long stretch, but at times the it really get on my nerves sometimes when some geriatric farang whose only exposure to "industry" in Thailand is watching Mr Somchai trying to weld up roof trusses on the house he is getting built for his Isaan "child bride" and then jumping to the conclusion that Thai are all useless for everything except for picking rice, dont know what they doing, etc etc

I have worked with Thai lads and ladies in Thailands O&G game and some are a good as, if not better, than some sad ar*ed western w*nkers doing the same job I have come across over the years in various parts of the world

If in the future I finally move on to another country, which I most likely will, I would have no hesitation giving some of these Thai nationals job's if they were looking.

Suppose the good thing is there are a few people on TV who are actually in the industry in Thailand and they have jumped in and put some of TV finest "experts" on all things Thai straight on a few points..

[Peterpatch]

Natural gas is something new to Thailand and what peaple dont understand they will fear.

If you mean by new, nearly 50 years, then I guess its new..the first gas production from the gulf of Thailand was in the mid 70's, developed by Union Oil as it was then... PTT/ BG/Total may have been earlier not certain on that one

The record of first use of natural gas pipeline shows that it was the Chinese who used bamboo as pipelines before 900 BC. In 1821 the United States used gas pipelines made of wood. In Thailand, the pipeline was first commenced and commercialized in 1981 by PTT Public Company Limited (previously Petroleum Authority of Thailand) which was responsible for laying the pipeline from Erawan Gas Field to come ashore at Rayong.

Union Oil discovered the Erawan Field in 1972 but the field wasnt developed as there was no available commercial market for the gas. In 1978 the government of Thailand declared its intention to construct a submarine pipeline to transport the natural gas from Blocks 12 and 13 and other offshore areas to shore. First gas from the pipeline was delivered in 1981.

So yes, Thailand is just a baby in comparison to the rest of world when it comes to Natural Gas Pipelines.

[jcw]

Some people here actually know about the topic, maybe we should buy a celebration cake and celebrate today every year as us arm chair expert have been stood up by an expert who knows his stuff !!!

Can you please explain for us Thai Visa arm chair experts what and why hot taps are done?

[Soutpeel]

Can you please explain for us Thai Visa arm chair experts what and why hot taps are done?

simply put...drilling a hole into a live production line be it gas, oil or some other nasty and for example connecting another bit of pipe, thereby not having to shut down or interupt the process in the line (when it all goes according to plan of course)..

Suppose another interesting fact to the "arm chair" experts which would scare the life out of you....sometimes live gas lines are even welded on...

Edited October 8, 2012 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

Union Oil discovered the Erawan Field in 1972 but the field wasnt developed as there was no available commercial market for the gas. In 1978 the government of Thailand declared its intention to construct a submarine pipeline to transport the natural gas from Blocks 12 and 13 and other offshore areas to shore. First gas from the pipeline was delivered in 1981.

So yes, Thailand is just a baby in comparison to the rest of world when it comes to Natural Gas Pipelines.

where on google did you find this section ?...

[Peterpatch]

Been working in the oil patch for 30 years.

[Peterpatch]

Been working in the oil patch for 30 years.

[Soutpeel]

Been working in the oil patch for 30 years.

OK,

but you never got that paragraph off the top of your head and the reason being, you mentioned block numbers which most people even working the GOT would need to look at a concession map to quote the number, so unless you are currently working or have worked the GOT and had access to the concession maps to know this info, it has come from an article or press release, because typically fields for the most part are identifed by their name, not concession number

and who ever wrote this piece used the term submarine line, the terminology used by most guys would be a sea line, or even sub-sea trunk line in this instance

[Soutpeel]

Been working in the oil patch for 30 years.

Its ok found the article you got it from you naughty boy

http://www.onepetro.org/mslib/servlet/onepetropreview?id=00010426

[jocko]

Some people are not going to be convinced Soutpeel.

I am not a Thai apologist by a long stretch, but at times the it really get on my nerves sometimes when some geriatric farang whose only exposure to "industry" in Thailand is watching Mr Somchai trying to weld up roof trusses on the house he is getting built for his Isaan "child bride" and then jumping to the conclusion that Thai are all useless for everything except for picking rice, dont know what they doing, etc etc

I have worked with Thai lads and ladies in Thailands O&G game and some are a good as, if not better, than some sad ar*ed western w*nkers doing the same job I have come across over the years in various parts of the world

If in the future I finally move on to another country, which I most likely will, I would have no hesitation giving some of these Thai nationals job's if they were looking.

Suppose the good thing is there are a few people on TV who are actually in the industry in Thailand and they have jumped in and put some of TV finest "experts" on all things Thai straight on a few points..

As a pipeline welder myself and having worked on and offshore in pipelay barges with welders fom Thialand. Philippines,India etc etc they are just as good as me and i have 30+ years in the oil and gas game any welder on a hot tap knows if he burns through the pipe he is a goner so he has a good reason to be able to manage the job do you think that it's not in the oil company's interest to keep the pipeline in good order as a shut down can cost $$$$$$$$$$$$ there is big feeder mains in the Uk have only 1mt cover and they go everywhere

[cloghead]

I worked for Taylor Diving & Salvage on the Brown & Root barges #347 and #264 when they laid and connected the twin trunk lines from platforms in the Erawan field to landfall at (what is now) Maptaphut in 1980-1982. At their completion/commissioning they were the longest submarine pipelines ever installed. That record didn't last very long but that's irrelevant. Some of the tie-in valves weren't quite up to snuff but replacing them every few years provided me with a bit of unexpected work. Just sayin'...

I just wanted to verify what several posters have already stated...

[cdnski12]

Like others above, I worked in the Natural Gas Pipeline Industry for 38 Years as an Engineering Technologist. I conducted a number of studies based on actual pipeline acccidents in North America. 70% of all pipeline damage is due to 3rd Party Damage ... that is, some outside agency hitting the pipeline during an excavation, train wreck, etc. Only something like 10% was due to corrosion. That being said, most North American Pipelines over 50 years old are probably somewhat suspect. The key is of course maintenance, corrosion & leak surveying, Right of Way Patrolling & other Maintenance Procedures. A "PIPELINE" is defined as any pipe operating in excess of 100 psi/700kPa/6.8 Bar. They are governed by various State/Provincal/Federal Pipeline Acts ... irrespective of what fluid they carry.

It was repeatedly my experience working for various Pipeline companies, that the Pipeline Maintenance started well. After 10-20 years, a new Maintenance Manager replaced an older experienced Manager. The new Mgr determined that nothing had ever happened in 10 years, so the Maintenance Schedule could safely cut back, less surveillence, patrols, corrosion inspections. The company saved Millions of USD annually. The new Mgr was hailed by upper management as a forward thinking executive and usually promoted him up the ladder. 5 years later, I was in court on a $7.5 Million USD Case, where our pipeline was damaged by Adjacent Land Preloading. Eventually we only got 50% of the repair cost, due to the new manager's altering the maintenance schedule. He never was in court. The company's very expensive legal firm would not allow any of the responsible managers anywhere near the court room. The lawyers did not even interview them. It was an interesting but stressful experience. That happened 2X in my work life.

[Keesters]

How are they doing what ever it is they are doing ?..your talking in riddles

As regards answering on behalf "Barty" again I will say stop being silly...the service his company provides the HDD, of course he will not guarantee the integrity of a pipeline installed 30 years ago or last week for that matter, no company installing/maintaining/operating a pipe line guarantees anything...Does Honda, Toyota, BMW or Aston Martin guarantee your car will never break down ?...there are no guarantee's in life only death and in some cases taxes.

Is living next to transmission line in Thailand any more dangerous than living next to transmission line in the US, UK or other so called 1st world country....in my opinion.... No....does this mean at some point there will not be a possible accident...no it doesnt...you are being very naive.

How do you not understand "It is not the what they are doing as to more the how they are doing it." Very common English usage. The what could be "you're digging a hole in the road" the how "you're using a spoon to do it". That is just an example of the usage and not to be taken as literal in this threads respect. I'll leave it up to you to apply it to the maintainence of the pipes.

You are the one being silly answering on behalf of other people. How do you know what he would say? Tell me where you bought your crystal ball? Plus you obviously haven't understood the question to be rhetorical.

Now you're talking about transmission lines, the USA and the UK all of which have nothing to do with this thread and most certainly have nothing to do with anything I've said.

I repeat my first post which I suggest you read time and time again til you understand.

Living Near Gas Pipelines In Thailand: Is It A 'low' Risk?

No, it is, IMO, high risk. Safety is the last concern of officials, contractors etc here. Money comes first....safety last.

That is all I had and have to say on the matter..the rest is all immaterial and brought on by your constant misquotes and changing of subject as well of course your speaking for others.

Thank you for the expert knowlege you have brought to this dicussion and the English lesson, be sure to use it in tomorrow class..

I will when next I come across someone who is as uneducated as .....

[I Like Thai]

When there is hot taps scheduled, irrespective who is doing it, I try to make sure I am not around and preferbly 100 miles away...

Can you please explain for us Thai Visa arm chair experts what and why hot taps are done?

simply put...drilling a hole into a live production line be it gas, oil or some other nasty and for example connecting another bit of pipe, thereby not having to shut down or interupt the process in the line (when it all goes according to plan of course)..

Suppose another interesting fact to the "arm chair" experts which would scare the life out of you....sometimes live gas lines are even welded on...

How often are these hot taps carried out. If it went wrong, would there be an explosion. Would this explosion be localised to the work crew area or could it extend to a populated area. I'm guessing your 100 mile remark is just an exaggeration, but how wide could an explosion be.

Edited October 8, 2012 by I Like Thai

[Soutpeel]

When there is hot taps scheduled, irrespective who is doing it, I try to make sure I am not around and preferbly 100 miles away...

Can you please explain for us Thai Visa arm chair experts what and why hot taps are done?

simply put...drilling a hole into a live production line be it gas, oil or some other nasty and for example connecting another bit of pipe, thereby not having to shut down or interupt the process in the line (when it all goes according to plan of course)..

Suppose another interesting fact to the "arm chair" experts which would scare the life out of you....sometimes live gas lines are even welded on...

How often are these hot taps carried out. If it went wrong, would there be an explosion. Would this explosion be localised to the work crew area or could it extend to a populated area. I'm guessing your 100 mile remark is just an exaggeration, but how wide could an explosion be.

Cant speak for other guys, but over the last 25 years or so, I have been involved in over 100 hot taps (worldwide) in varying capacities/roles

Yes the 100 mile was joke

If I could answer your last question, I would be a very rich man, but personally I am not aware of a hot tap which has caused a big bang anywhere in the world ..