Douge De Bourdeux Is Never Hungry. And He Is A Wimp

[bina]

interesting, hadnt even asked about bowls and such; btw, some large dogs prefer (and its healthier for them too ) to have their food bowl and water bowl raised abit off the ground, like in a dog bowl stand. seen them in the states, here people just put high buckets or raise stuff of the ground on a cement block or something else solid that doesnt mvoe when the dog starts licking the bowl or pushing it with its snout.

ok, your dog has reacted; now is the time you should be thinking of working WITH him, polite action stuff: sit, leave it, drop it, back up /move back, etc... DDB are trainable , they want to please their people, and they like attention so helps to work with them...

better to teach dogs to 'leave it' before u teach them to 'take it', etc.... try going to a DDB site for family dogs and their training. they are too big to leave untrained,a s u stated, you were having a hard time controlling him. that is NOT what u want or need, ihave a lhasa that hates when people touch me (that arent on his list of ok people, family, friends), but he is 7 kilo with small albeit sharp teeth, DDB are large heavy with big teeth (and law suits to back the bite up)...

the other thing u did wrongly was 'try to creep past'. u are the alpha. you should just walk past, with DDB at your side or slighly behind you, and not 'creep'. you should walk at the same pace, as if (and u are) u are the boss of the turf. its not the size of a dog, its the attitude. same for people. so next time u go past, and it is problematic to go past lots of dogs with a dog on a leash, and could conceivably do psychological damage to your dog -happened to my boxer bitch -next time, go past like u are the king of the dog mafia.and YOU should be protecting your dog from the others. YOU are the leader. once he has learned commands, and he is more mature, u can use him , on command, to guard and protect self and turf., a dog that feels uneasy becomes a 'biting' dog, out of control....

jsut some ideas..

[Nienke]

Actually, a so-called 'alpha' (whatever that means) would never enter someone's turf with an attitude as if s/he's the boss of that territory which is not his/hers. If it would it is asking for trouble. And if the human will do so, he/she will give the *wrong* signals to his/her dog.

In stead a confident dog will subtly signal it will pass as a friend, no intention to confront, but if confronted it will stand its case.

I"m glad that things are going much better with the op's dog. Sounds like a very nice dog to me.

[thelongshoot]

interesting, hadnt even asked about bowls and such; btw, some large dogs prefer (and its healthier for them too ) to have their food bowl and water bowl raised abit off the ground, like in a dog bowl stand. seen them in the states, here people just put high buckets or raise stuff of the ground on a cement block or something else solid that doesnt mvoe when the dog starts licking the bowl or pushing it with its snout.

ok, your dog has reacted; now is the time you should be thinking of working WITH him, polite action stuff: sit, leave it, drop it, back up /move back, etc... DDB are trainable , they want to please their people, and they like attention so helps to work with them...

better to teach dogs to 'leave it' before u teach them to 'take it', etc.... try going to a DDB site for family dogs and their training. they are too big to leave untrained,a s u stated, you were having a hard time controlling him. that is NOT what u want or need, ihave a lhasa that hates when people touch me (that arent on his list of ok people, family, friends), but he is 7 kilo with small albeit sharp teeth, DDB are large heavy with big teeth (and law suits to back the bite up)...

the other thing u did wrongly was 'try to creep past'. u are the alpha. you should just walk past, with DDB at your side or slighly behind you, and not 'creep'. you should walk at the same pace, as if (and u are) u are the boss of the turf. its not the size of a dog, its the attitude. same for people. so next time u go past, and it is problematic to go past lots of dogs with a dog on a leash, and could conceivably do psychological damage to your dog -happened to my boxer bitch -next time, go past like u are the king of the dog mafia.and YOU should be protecting your dog from the others. YOU are the leader. once he has learned commands, and he is more mature, u can use him , on command, to guard and protect self and turf., a dog that feels uneasy becomes a 'biting' dog, out of control....

jsut some ideas..

More amazing advice. I guess when you think about it that is totaly logical..... The dog needs to see you are in control. To be honest half the reason I 'creep' past is because of the sheer noise and commotion that 10 mingy soi dogs make..... Most of the time the persons inside the house will come out to see what all the noise is and look at me like I am pure evil "how dare you walk your giant dog around here" and I cant be arsed with the attention. But ok, fair enough I will try what you suggested and to hell with the noise and what the locals think

[thelongshoot]

Actually, a so-called 'alpha' (whatever that means) would never enter someone's turf with an attitude as if s/he's the boss of that territory which is not his/hers. If it would it is asking for trouble. And if the human will do so, he/she will give the *wrong* signals to his/her dog.

In stead a confident dog will subtly signal it will pass as a friend, no intention to confront, but if confronted it will stand its case.

I"m glad that things are going much better with the op's dog. Sounds like a very nice dog to me.

Thanks. yah he is a lovely dog - proper friendly happy go lucky dog

[thelongshoot]

Thanks to everyone for the replies..... There are some great bits of advice here and I appreciate it greatly. I cant reply to each post right now as I am just about to nip[ off for a visa run but again, thanks to all of you.

I just wnated to reiterate though that im not looking to turn him into an aggresive maniac - I just want him to wake up... Just a little. Bark if someone walks into the yard and for christs sake dont run from cats lol! That said, as a few posters have already stated he is still young and i guess when he reaches full maturity he will toughen up a little.

I was walking him this morning and happened to walk past a cafe with at least 10 gnarly aggresive soi dogs sleeping. I tried to creep past but obviously they woke and went mental. I just carried on walking with the dogs on our heels, going nuts and with my guy looking totaly and utterly bewildered. He has a look about him of "i dont understand. What did I do wrong to them?" lol. Out of the blue, one of the dogs nipped me on the back of the leg - nothing hard and did not break skin, just a little nip and then retreated..... My dog went absolutley crazy, I have never seen him like that before. I was having a hard time keeping him on the leash and he was making every effort to break away and tear into these dogs. I have honestly never seen him like that - he just went balistic it was like having a little lion on a leash. All of these soi dogs legged it back to the cafe. So, clearly he has it in him then but only when the situation requires it, which is perfect i guess.

Also a bit of good news is that he is eating. Its a funny thing and I have no idea why but all i did was change his bowl from a jumbo 'anti chew' plastic bowl to a stainless steel one, and he has been eating twice a day and wolfing it down. I have no idea why - i mean I cleaned the bowl twice daily and properly scrubbed it so it was not dirty. There must have been a sent of some sort in the bowl?

Im taking him back to the vets when I return to check on his blood paresite levels but by and large, he seems to be happy and putting weight on.

Thanks again for all of your helps and advice, much appreciated.

My advice when walking in a unprotected environment you should be carrying a bamboo stick as things can get ugly quick. Without it you may not have a dog to worry about.

Yah... maybe i sound self concious here and probably a little paranoid but I tried that one with an extendable cosh. I kinda felt as if people may view me as a local nutter walking his giant dog carrying a cosh and acting like "johnny big spuds" lol so i stopped. I did walk with a bamboo stick just the other day though and it seems all you have to do when walking past a bunch of them is lift the stick in the air - they seem to know what that means and that they will gelt belted unless they retreat.

[thelongshoot]

interesting, hadnt even asked about bowls and such; btw, some large dogs prefer (and its healthier for them too ) to have their food bowl and water bowl raised abit off the ground, like in a dog bowl stand. seen them in the states, here people just put high buckets or raise stuff of the ground on a cement block or something else solid that doesnt mvoe when the dog starts licking the bowl or pushing it with its snout.

ok, your dog has reacted; now is the time you should be thinking of working WITH him, polite action stuff: sit, leave it, drop it, back up /move back, etc... DDB are trainable , they want to please their people, and they like attention so helps to work with them...

better to teach dogs to 'leave it' before u teach them to 'take it', etc.... try going to a DDB site for family dogs and their training. they are too big to leave untrained,a s u stated, you were having a hard time controlling him. that is NOT what u want or need, ihave a lhasa that hates when people touch me (that arent on his list of ok people, family, friends), but he is 7 kilo with small albeit sharp teeth, DDB are large heavy with big teeth (and law suits to back the bite up)...

the other thing u did wrongly was 'try to creep past'. u are the alpha. you should just walk past, with DDB at your side or slighly behind you, and not 'creep'. you should walk at the same pace, as if (and u are) u are the boss of the turf. its not the size of a dog, its the attitude. same for people. so next time u go past, and it is problematic to go past lots of dogs with a dog on a leash, and could conceivably do psychological damage to your dog -happened to my boxer bitch -next time, go past like u are the king of the dog mafia.and YOU should be protecting your dog from the others. YOU are the leader. once he has learned commands, and he is more mature, u can use him , on command, to guard and protect self and turf., a dog that feels uneasy becomes a 'biting' dog, out of control....

jsut some ideas..

i fotgot to mention - you may indeed be right as the stainless steel bowl i brought consisted of two bowls on a steel pedastal that is adjustable in height. OIne for food, one for water. His are raised about one foot of the floor so interestingly it could have been that yes.

Do you water your dogs from the tap or from large bottles? I have always gave him water out of those 20Baht large bottles/tubs that you buy for fear of the water source being dirty.... is that something i need to continue with?

[meatboy]

i give our dog water from the 30lt bottles,i posted a while back about tap water that had been contaminated,whats good for us is ok for him.regarding the stick we always carry one,athough our dog has a face of a wolf with piecing eye's any stray dog doesnt like the stick but dont wave it about like you say just a short raising is enough.

[Cuban]

I'm running out of morning so I'll be brief.

The point about raised or not feeding bowls has a bearing on the risk of Bloat in dogs, there appear to be two camps; one suggesting it lowers risk and the other it increases risk ! We feed with on the ground bowls, but in such a way they don't move and there is no food-competition. I feel that in the cases of Bloat a dog is gulping food down because of the 'fear' another dog will take it or the small biscuits fed are just inhaled - there is no need to crunch them (dogs can not chew because of the way the jaw and teeth work). Bloat normally affects larger - deep chested dogs.

I have seen a case of Bloat in a dog that bolted it's food down in an house with many loose untrained dogs, the dog died the following day while under going surgery, that dog ate from a bowl on the floor and was a small 6Kg.

Water, dog's lives are dominated by smell. Our dogs will happily drink river water and puddles of questional origin in the fields, if avoiding this (how might you stop it?) then worming and an eye on parasites is wise.

For tap water there is a smell due to treatment, I suggest you look at tap water held in a sealede bottle overnight and smell it the following day - a dog's nose is x1,000 better than yours - does the water smell nice?

We keep a large barrel and allow tap water to loose it's smell over a few days then refill the dog's water bowls from that, they drink it.

Sticks and soi dogs - the action of bending down to pick up a mock stone and swinging arm motion etc is enough to see of most dogs that have been on the receiving end of a stone/stick before - but having your own dog with you changes the game.

What we have done in most cases is just stop walking and regard the ofending dog. Dogs will respond to a prey drive and chase a weaker animal off of "their" patch, by remaining still (holding "your" ground) the message you give is that we see your threat but it does not affect us. We choose to stay here. We do not consider "you" a threat to us. IME that works when dealing with a sole soi dog (and most of our neighbours animals) - but when dealing with a pack the game is different again - many vs one is an unfair fight and pack animals do not play nicely - in these situation I have zero qualms about increasing the defensive strengh of me and my dogs and would use an agressive spray (use your imagination) to take out soi dogs that are a real threat to us.

How your dog behaves by giving dominate body langauge or not (Tail erect, looking sqaure on, ears alert.mouth open) will give YOU early warning about what will happen next (your dog communicates more quickly but you can read the signs), if a fight is fast approching both dogs will move forward, an open mouth becomes a lip curl showing teeth and fur on the neck becomes erect (to show greater size and provide padding in an attack) heavy breathing becomes a growl at that point unknitting a fight is less easy.

If your dog's tail is down - between the legs even and shows the whites of his eyes he is scared and will be a victim to the soi-dog bully. Urination at that time is a sign of submission (urinating after an encounter is a sign of marking newly claimed territory - also the paws digging into the ground to kick up dust and scent than he has just left). In such situations never attempt the "human" soothing to a scared child that many think is the right action to their beloved pet - such action will only encourage your dog to be fearful as you are rewarding the showing of fear. After a bad encounter move on and walk in a soi-dog free zone - distraction and new activity.

The last time I had to do take agressive action was when were used to travel between Pattaya and Issan and needed to walk the dogs at gas stations enroute, when woken at 2am a soi-dog living off food scraps at the station will defend "it's" patch of land against a strange smelling new dog that suddenly appears that is sees as food-competition, I'm a dog lover and all that but in those situations I have zero symphathy for what is a wild animal attacking my dogs. I have a BIL in the police he has suggested shooting such an attacking dog where it has no collar. Not having a gun I used something small and spiky not enough to cause serious longterm damage but enough to show I was the dominate "big dog" on the block as I can "bite" you at a distance.

I'm keen to hear how others have coped with situations like that - the instant situation where you are alone with your dogs facing a number of uncontrolled soi-dogs.

[F1fanatic]

I know exactly what you mean about water, as I always have a bowl full of human drinking water available - but my dogs generally prefer either water from the pond (tap water) or water from puddles....

I've only once had a problem with a number of aggressive soi dogs going after my dog (who didn't help by being aggressive herself!), but I squirted them with my water pistol and they backed off.

Individual soi dogs are even easier. As a previous poster pointed out, walk authoritatively (as long as your own dog(s) is/are under control) and the soi dogs will back away.

Only once did I come across a dog who wouldn't back off - and that dog had an owner! One of my dogs precipitated the problem though, by barking madly at the other dog.... I put myself in-between the dogs, assuming he would go away once he realised he had to go through me to get at the target of his aggression. Instead he jumped up at me, and bit me! I wasn't frightened - just shocked and annoyed at this unexpected behaviour.

Since then, I've learned a lot more about being 'pack leader' and how to keep my own dogs' problem behaviour under control to prevent issues arising. But I find a water pistol sorts out any problems, both for my dogs and other dogs.

[ALFREDO]

-thelongshoot-

It seems, you did not inform yourself a lot before you took the dog.

Regarding the -increased water and food bowls-, very positive for bigger dogs,

reduces the intake of air when eating.

I fed them in different kennels and let them after feeding for 2-3 hours there, to avoid a possible stomach turn

after to early playing and exercise.

Water- my dogs drink also from the ground level in other places in the garden and they drink the water from the well and pump on the farm.

Dogue de Bordeux = DdB http://en.wikipedia....gue_de_Bordeaux

DdB, is, as far as I read and experienced the least aggressive dog from the Molosser group, at least how he presents himself.

http://www.bordeauxd...s-character.htm

The DdB is usually quiet and barks seldom, I read,

in older times, he should hunt the game,

get hold of the game and hold it down with his strong bite and weight until the hunter arrived.

Same with the rustlers who he should snatch, bite and hold until the "Cowboys" - guards came.

An early barking would not allow such actions.

My DdB has 56 kg is already an old boy..

I feed in the late afternoon, 5-6 PM a mix of rice, can food 2 x 400 g cans (cheapest) each dog, some Mama soup and left overs, bones from us,

all together about 1-1,5 kg a dog.

They have also, the possibility to eat dry food-cheapest, always 24 hour a day.

I had until recently a pack of, German Boxer, Rottweiler, 2 Bullmastiff and a French Bulldog. All boys

After the bigger Bullmastiff got killed by a Cobra (only 14 month old ), I replaced him with the DdB.

Age and sickness leave me now with the smaller and now with age, a bit fatter Bullmastiff and DdB.

You want something more brave, for everybody to recognize and very suspicious of strangers, FILA BRASILEIRO, (I checked them a bit)

a beautiful, but a bit nervous dog, lot barking, the DOGO ARGENTINO, (2 Friends of mine, have them)

BULLMASTIFF is also a bit more showing off, also I had once one very strong and big one who challenged nobody in the pack, was very quiet,

but same you told the story with your DdB, when it has to be, he is on his guard.

He was always the first when unusual things happened, so he was the first on the Cobra!

The other Molosser, I do not know from experience. But stumbled over a nice photo from a CANE CORSO.

Edited October 17, 2012 by ALFREDO

[bina]

yep.... at vets and kennels ive always seen folks using higher bowls for the mollossers...and , like horses, no huge amounts of water after excercies etc... not sure if that is up to date info however it was many years ago.l..

yep nienke, i didnt mean being the mafia boss, i meant like F1 - authoritively... not aggressively.

[Nienke]

yep nienke, i didnt mean being the mafia boss, i meant like F1 - authoritively... not aggressively.

F1 likes and believes in Cesar Millan's dominance and 'leader-of-the-pack' theory and his methods, which I do not.

Lot's of studies of the last decennia have shown that the dominance theory is totally outdated. And CM's leader-of-the-pack is based on intimidation, force, flooding, mis-reading of the dogs' body language, pain and fear.

[bina]

well, im not that extreme, i just feel that most animals that are pack animals, from alpacas to dogs, including people, feel more comfortable when they have a leader, adn the leader actually leads as apposed to bumbling along or sneaky past things that they dont feel comfortable with... i see it at my work since i have a balless wonder as a manager, and i've seen it with dogs or horses that are nervous, if the leader goes forward w/o fear and hesitation, for the most part apart from super timid specimens or traumitized types, the leadership works....

i dont watch cesear and havent a clue as to what he does or doesnt do, i just know what actually physically works... but thats anuther... topic....

[bangkaew]

Have you any photos Longshot?

Re blood parasites they caused my dog watery eyes initially and eventually nose bleeds. Got it from drinking puddle water. Raw garlic is anti fungal, anti bacterial and anti viral. Put a couple of minced cloves in the food.

[F1fanatic]

yep nienke, i didnt mean being the mafia boss, i meant like F1 - authoritively... not aggressively.

F1 likes and believes in Cesar Millan's dominance and 'leader-of-the-pack' theory and his methods, which I do not.

Lot's of studies of the last decennia have shown that the dominance theory is totally outdated. And CM's leader-of-the-pack is based on intimidation, force, flooding, mis-reading of the dogs' body language, pain and fear.

Ummm, no. I most certainly do NOT believe intimidation, pain or fear has ANY place in dog training, and I'm suprised you think this (edit - about me) .

But yes, I do believe in Cesar Millan's 'calm and assertive' pack leader method. My dogs were pretty much out of control until I gradually learned how to be 'pack leader'. They loved me and would listen to me IF there was nothing more interesting they would prefer to be doing...

Fortunately, somebody recommended the Dog Whisperer (on TV) to me and watching the programme made me realise that the fault lay with me - not my dogs. Its not a 'quick fix', precisely because using intimidation, pain or fear never comes into it!

I'm still working on it though, as I'm not a naturally assertive or calm person (rather, I tend to get frustrated and angry), but my dogs pay a lot more attention to me now and are not at all 'frightened' of me!

Best of all, one of my dogs is terrified of thunder and loud 'bangs'. I hadn't tackled this problem yet, but just by gaining her respect as 'pack leader', she has started coming to me instead of hiding away.

Edited October 21, 2012 by F1fanatic

[steelepulse]

>>The other Molosser, I do not know from experience. But stumbled over a nice photo from a CANE CORSO.

I've got two Cane Corsos that I brought over from Italy, and before that I had two Dogo Argentinos from Northern Thailand , which unfortunately got killed by cobras due to their strong prey drive. I even saw one of them get bit and got anti venom that time.

In regards to Cane Corsos, all I can say is they are great dogs and worth what I paid for them including the shipping, cages etc. They're alert, security conscious, great with kids, not hyper and only bark when there is an imminent reason to do.

[ALFREDO]

I've got two Cane Corsos that I brought over from Italy, and before that I had two Dogo Argentinos from Northern Thailand , which unfortunately got killed by cobras due to their strong prey drive. I even saw one of them get bit and got anti venom that time.

In regards to Cane Corsos, all I can say is they are great dogs and worth what I paid for them including the shipping, cages etc. They're alert, security conscious, great with kids, not hyper and only bark when there is an imminent reason to do.

Thanks for your interesting posting,

sorry for your loss regarding the Dogo Argentinos, as I wrote I had a similar 'Bad" experience with a very friendly, beautiful, big Bullmastiff!

If you come to Phuket, the owner of the K-Hotel in Patong has a beautiful Dogo Argentino,

at his second outlet at the -Pla- Restaurant in Surin beach. Afternoon chat there possible, nice surroundings.

-Cane Corsos- I am interested in them to, you breed?

How much did it cost you to bring a dog to TH, with what weight of dog and including purchasing the dogs?

Regarding barking, seems to me similar to the Dogue de Bordeaux.

Edited October 22, 2012 by ALFREDO

[bina]

thinking again about size and shape of bowls; lilee the lhasa refused to eat from certain dishes, apparently her name tag (metal) was clinking on the side of the bowl and she just didnt like the sounds, found more shallow wider dishes and she eats and drinks anything (she has a more pushed in face and more beard then the male does- who also eats anything out of anything), so could be shape, width, whatever. horses and goats also have personal preferences , dont knock it, just as people do. (coffee only in glass cup or in paper cup or mug...)

[LeCharivari]

Actually, a so-called 'alpha' (whatever that means) would never enter someone's turf with an attitude as if s/he's the boss of that territory which is not his/hers. If it would it is asking for trouble. And if the human will do so, he/she will give the *wrong* signals to his/her dog.

In stead a confident dog will subtly signal it will pass as a friend, no intention to confront, but if confronted it will stand its case.

Agreed 100%, Nienke. You should "walk through" another group of dogs' area as if you are just "passing through" - not a threat, not looking for a fight, etc, and not "creeping" past. The former will make him aggressive, the latter confused. Carrying a stick or piece of bamboo is normally deterrent enough.

Plastic bowls are impossible to clean properly and always smell of something - stainless or aluminium bowls are far better. I have a number of sets of the bowls you describe, at varying heights, for my dogs and I'd suggest putting the base in a flat, round "tray" with water in it which keeps any ants, etc, out of the food and water.