Help With Financial Side For A Spouse Visa To England

[hotwinter]

well i spoken with the accountant today and july is under. i also spoken to my boss and she has agreed to put me on a salary! so now i can wait until january to apply.

when i explinas the situation to the accountant she even said it was one of the most stuipdest things she has ever heard and no way reflects what i get paid, my boss was amazed to. she asked if i could just say i took a unpaid holiday? do you thing thats possible? i could say i took days off unpaid?

[hotwinter]

one more thing, this salary means i actually get paid less!

[7by7]

As the formula used takes the lowest of the previous 6 months' income, taking unpaid holiday wont help; 12 x 0 = 0!

I'm not saying it's right, it isn't.

[hotwinter]

As the formula used takes the lowest of the previous 6 months' income, taking unpaid holiday wont help; 12 x 0 = 0!

I'm not saying it's right, it isn't.

i ment just a couple of days in that month. but i take it they wont accept that either.

i should be ok in a couple of months now but its still very frustrating and im going to loose alot of money because of it

[durhamboy]

Apparently, there is a Judicial Review hearing in the Upper Tribunal of the Appeal court next week. It is a challenge to the new requirements, along the lines of :

The legal challenge on 7 November 2012

The Court is asked to do the following

1 Declare that appendix FM and HC 194 of the immigration rules are not sufficient to satisfy the requirements of article 8 ECHR.

2 Do not have the effect of primary legislation

3 Must be read down so as to defer to the case law on Article 8 by ECHR and the obligations of the tribunal under primary legislation.

In addition, the government has just had a setback in the IAT on the "scope and meaning" of Article 8 private and family life in the rules introduced in July. The relevant determination is MF (Article 8 – new rules) Nigeria[2012] UKUT 00393 (IAC).

Hopefully the JR hearing next week will produce a similar result.

VisaPlus - do you know what happened at the Judicial Revue?

Thanks

[VisasPlus]

Apparently, there is a Judicial Review hearing in the Upper Tribunal of the Appeal court next week. It is a challenge to the new requirements, along the lines of :

The legal challenge on 7 November 2012

The Court is asked to do the following

1 Declare that appendix FM and HC 194 of the immigration rules are not sufficient to satisfy the requirements of article 8 ECHR.

2 Do not have the effect of primary legislation

3 Must be read down so as to defer to the case law on Article 8 by ECHR and the obligations of the tribunal under primary legislation.

In addition, the government has just had a setback in the IAT on the "scope and meaning" of Article 8 private and family life in the rules introduced in July. The relevant determination is MF (Article 8 – new rules) Nigeria[2012] UKUT 00393 (IAC).

Hopefully the JR hearing next week will produce a similar result.

VisaPlus - do you know what happened at the Judicial Revue?

Thanks

Nothing known as yet. I guess maybe they are thinking about a decision ?

[crazydrummerpauly]

Have you actually read the Immigration Directorate Instructions document I linked to earlier; which explains the financial requirement in full?

A firm job offer on your return to the UK does count, provided you have also been earning at least £18,600 p..a. outside the UK for at least the 6 months prior to your return.

Savings above £16,000 will reduce the amount of required income on a sliding scale; the more savings you have above this the less income you need until savings of £62,000 or more mean that no income is required.

These savings can be gifted to you by a family member or friend, but they must be a gift, not a loan and have been in your possession and under your complete control for at least 6 months.

You say that you own property in the UK. Do you live in it when in the UK or do you rent it out. Rental income does count towards the financial requirement; see 'Property Rental Income' in section 5.4.3 of the document.

Your husband could apply for another visit visa, but you have said he has only recently returned to Thailand after spending 5 months in the UK. There is no actual rule, but the convention is that a visitor should not normally spend more than 6 months out of 12 in the UK. Unless there is an exceptional reason for his needing to make another long visit to the Uk so soon after his last one he will probably be refused.

Even if he were to get another visit visa the maximum time he could spend in the UK would be 6 months and he would not be able to work.

Most of us here have had to spend months separated from our loved one whilst their visa was sorted out; in my case it was close to 6 months between my leaving Thailand and my wife finally arriving to live with me in the UK. Looking back now, nearly 12 years later, the wait was not only worth it, but doesn't seem so long; though at the time it seemed like forever!

Whether one agrees with the new financial requirements or not (personally I agree with some, but not all) these are the rules and if you want your husband to live with you in the UK you and he will have to follow them.

In an ideal world there would be no need for visas and anyone would be able to live anywhere with whomever they choose; but it's not an ideal world.

Hi, great thread, thanks. I was very interested to read this from you -

"You say that you own property in the UK. Do you live in it when in the UK or do you rent it out. Rental income does count towards the financial requirement; see 'Property Rental Income' in section 5.4.3 of the document."

Because the guidance in the UKBA notes left me in the dark about the situation regarding rental income. It seems pretty dogmatic that rental income from one's 'MAIN RESIDENCE' can not be counted. This seems to refer to, for example, money coming from having a lodger in the house one is also living in. But it says nothing about the situation of someone returning to the UK who has their own house already rented out, and then takes on a rented place to live in, leaving the tenants and the rental income as it is. The problem i see is around how they define 'main residence' ? Is it for example, one's own property (still mortgaged or paid off), at which one is registered with the council and the doctor etc ? If rental income is allowed from one's own house, it would make a very big difference to my annual income and get me close to the £18,600 requirement when added to state pension and some small investment interest.

[VisasPlus]

Have you actually read the Immigration Directorate Instructions document I linked to earlier; which explains the financial requirement in full?

A firm job offer on your return to the UK does count, provided you have also been earning at least £18,600 p..a. outside the UK for at least the 6 months prior to your return.

Savings above £16,000 will reduce the amount of required income on a sliding scale; the more savings you have above this the less income you need until savings of £62,000 or more mean that no income is required.

These savings can be gifted to you by a family member or friend, but they must be a gift, not a loan and have been in your possession and under your complete control for at least 6 months.

You say that you own property in the UK. Do you live in it when in the UK or do you rent it out. Rental income does count towards the financial requirement; see 'Property Rental Income' in section 5.4.3 of the document.

Your husband could apply for another visit visa, but you have said he has only recently returned to Thailand after spending 5 months in the UK. There is no actual rule, but the convention is that a visitor should not normally spend more than 6 months out of 12 in the UK. Unless there is an exceptional reason for his needing to make another long visit to the Uk so soon after his last one he will probably be refused.

Even if he were to get another visit visa the maximum time he could spend in the UK would be 6 months and he would not be able to work.

Most of us here have had to spend months separated from our loved one whilst their visa was sorted out; in my case it was close to 6 months between my leaving Thailand and my wife finally arriving to live with me in the UK. Looking back now, nearly 12 years later, the wait was not only worth it, but doesn't seem so long; though at the time it seemed like forever!

Whether one agrees with the new financial requirements or not (personally I agree with some, but not all) these are the rules and if you want your husband to live with you in the UK you and he will have to follow them.

In an ideal world there would be no need for visas and anyone would be able to live anywhere with whomever they choose; but it's not an ideal world.

Hi, great thread, thanks. I was very interested to read this from you -

"You say that you own property in the UK. Do you live in it when in the UK or do you rent it out. Rental income does count towards the financial requirement; see 'Property Rental Income' in section 5.4.3 of the document."

Because the guidance in the UKBA notes left me in the dark about the situation regarding rental income. It seems pretty dogmatic that rental income from one's 'MAIN RESIDENCE' can not be counted. This seems to refer to, for example, money coming from having a lodger in the house one is also living in. But it says nothing about the situation of someone returning to the UK who has their own house already rented out, and then takes on a rented place to live in, leaving the tenants and the rental income as it is. The problem i see is around how they define 'main residence' ? Is it for example, one's own property (still mortgaged or paid off), at which one is registered with the council and the doctor etc ? If rental income is allowed from one's own house, it would make a very big difference to my annual income and get me close to the £18,600 requirement when added to state pension and some small investment interest.

I think what they are saying is that any rent from a lodger living in the same house as you cannot be counted as rental income. Unless, it is a self contained flat, or similar, and then that would not be your main residence, as you are not living in it.

[VisasPlus]

Nothing stopping him from applying now; but he would need to convince the ECO that he has a valid reason for needing to visit the UK again so soon after a 5 month visit. As his reason is to be with you while you are working, I doubt this would be acceptable.

He was in the UK for 5 months and will presumably want to spend the full 6 months next time. So to avoid possibly falling foul of the 'no more than 6 months out of any 12' convention I'd suggest 6 months after he left the UK, i.e. 1st March 2013. He can submit his application up to 3 months before this and ask for the visa to start on 1st March.

Remember that if he does apply earlier than this and the ECO does grant him a visa, for example because he says he only wants to stay a month or less, that he could still be refused entry when he arrives in the UK if immigration feel that, on the balance of probabilities, he will be spending more than 6 months out of 12 in the UK as a visitor.

7 by 7 could you give me a link on where it says i can apply 3 months earlier,,,for a visit visa,,thankyou

Karen,

I don't remember all the background to your proposed settlement application ( as was ). There have been changes ( yesterday) to the rules, or, rather, to the specified evidence to show that you can meet the financial requirement. I haven't got my head around it all yet, but it looks like a sponsor might be able to use the whole previous year's gross annual salary, even if there are months missing ( for instance, you were in Thailand for 2 months ). If you remember, you had to provide all of the previous 6 months wage slips, and the lowest monthly salary was multiplied by 12 to give a gross annual salary. It looks like ( and, as I said, I'm still trying to work it out ) you can choose the option to provide evidence of 12 months wage slips, and those 12 months must meet the 18,600 threshold. I hope I'm getting it right, and forgive me If I'm wrong.

[KarenBlackwell]

Nothing stopping him from applying now; but he would need to convince the ECO that he has a valid reason for needing to visit the UK again so soon after a 5 month visit. As his reason is to be with you while you are working, I doubt this would be acceptable.

He was in the UK for 5 months and will presumably want to spend the full 6 months next time. So to avoid possibly falling foul of the 'no more than 6 months out of any 12' convention I'd suggest 6 months after he left the UK, i.e. 1st March 2013. He can submit his application up to 3 months before this and ask for the visa to start on 1st March.

Remember that if he does apply earlier than this and the ECO does grant him a visa, for example because he says he only wants to stay a month or less, that he could still be refused entry when he arrives in the UK if immigration feel that, on the balance of probabilities, he will be spending more than 6 months out of 12 in the UK as a visitor.

7 by 7 could you give me a link on where it says i can apply 3 months earlier,,,for a visit visa,,thankyou

Karen,

I don't remember all the background to your proposed settlement application ( as was ). There have been changes ( yesterday) to the rules, or, rather, to the specified evidence to show that you can meet the financial requirement. I haven't got my head around it all yet, but it looks like a sponsor might be able to use the whole previous year's gross annual salary, even if there are months missing ( for instance, you were in Thailand for 2 months ). If you remember, you had to provide all of the previous 6 months wage slips, and the lowest monthly salary was multiplied by 12 to give a gross annual salary. It looks like ( and, as I said, I'm still trying to work it out ) you can choose the option to provide evidence of 12 months wage slips, and those 12 months must meet the 18,600 threshold. I hope I'm getting it right, and forgive me If I'm wrong.

now im completely lost lol will have a look , i was changing my flight on monday to return to england hahaaha,,,if you remember one of my wage slips was for 150 pound but that was holiday pay, would they take this into account. can you send me a link i can never find information i need ty tony

Edited November 24, 2012 by KarenBlackwell

[VisasPlus]

Karen,

These are the changes ( for sponsors in salaried employment in the UK). Paragraph 2 is the financial requirement, and paragraph 13 is how you can meet it :

2. In respect of salaried employment in the UK, all of the following evidence must be provided:

(a) Wage slips covering:

(i) a period of 6 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months (and where paragraph 13(b ) of this Appendix does not apply); or

(ii) any period of salaried employment in the period of 12 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) of this Appendix), or in the financial year(s) relied upon by a self-employed person.

13. Based on evidence that meets the requirements of this Appendix, and can be taken into account with reference to the applicable provisions of Appendix FM, gross annual income under paragraphs E-ECP.3.1., E-LTRP.3.1., E-ECC.2.1. and E-LTRC.2.1. will be calculated in the following ways:

(a) Where the person is in salaried employment in the UK at the date of application and has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months, their gross annual income will be (where paragraph 13((b ) does not apply) the total of:

(i) The gross annual salary from their employment as it was at its lowest level in the 6 months prior to the date of application;

(ii) The gross amount of any specified non-employment income (other than pension income) received by them or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application; and

(iii) The gross annual income from a UK or foreign State pension or a private pension received by them or their partner.

(iv ) Where the person is in salaried employment in the UK at the date of application and has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) , their gross annual income will be the total of:

(i) The gross annual salary from employment as it was at the date of application;

(ii) The gross amount of any specified non-employment income (other than pension income) received by them or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application; and

(iii) The gross annual income from a UK or foreign State pension or a private pension received by them or their partner.

So, it looks like, if your total salary for the 12 months prior to the date of application was 18,600 or more, then it doesn't matter is you had a low salary ( or nil salary) for any one of those 12 months. The changes come into effect on 13th December 2012.

Edited November 25, 2012 by VisasPlus

[VisasPlus]

The requirements are actually published. Here:

The Appendix FM-SE is changed by the new immigration rules ( from 13th December 2012). The changes are to be found in HC 760 :

hc760.pdf

[KarenBlackwell]

Karen,

These are the changes ( for sponsors in salaried employment in the UK). Paragraph 2 is the financial requirement, and paragraph 13 is how you can meet it :

2. In respect of salaried employment in the UK, all of the following evidence must be provided:

(a) Wage slips covering:

(i) a period of 6 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months (and where paragraph 13(b ) of this Appendix does not apply); or

(ii) any period of salaried employment in the period of 12 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) of this Appendix), or in the financial year(s) relied upon by a self-employed person.

13. Based on evidence that meets the requirements of this Appendix, and can be taken into account with reference to the applicable provisions of Appendix FM, gross annual income under paragraphs E-ECP.3.1., E-LTRP.3.1., E-ECC.2.1. and E-LTRC.2.1. will be calculated in the following ways:

(a) Where the person is in salaried employment in the UK at the date of application and has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months, their gross annual income will be (where paragraph 13((b ) does not apply) the total of:

(i) The gross annual salary from their employment as it was at its lowest level in the 6 months prior to the date of application;

(ii) The gross amount of any specified non-employment income (other than pension income) received by them or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application; and

(iii) The gross annual income from a UK or foreign State pension or a private pension received by them or their partner.

(iv ) Where the person is in salaried employment in the UK at the date of application and has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) , their gross annual income will be the total of:

(i) The gross annual salary from employment as it was at the date of application;

(ii) The gross amount of any specified non-employment income (other than pension income) received by them or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application; and

(iii) The gross annual income from a UK or foreign State pension or a private pension received by them or their partner.

So, it looks like, if your total salary for the 12 months prior to the date of application was 18,600 or more, then it doesn't matter is you had a low salary ( or nil salary) for any one of those 12 months. The changes come into effect on 13th December 2012.

i only earnt 14,000 last year, just a shame about my rent money not going into my bank, anyway i,ve sorted that now all rent is going into my bank, but sounds like i,ll still have to do another tourist visa....thanks again tony

[KarenBlackwell]

Karen,

These are the changes ( for sponsors in salaried employment in the UK). Paragraph 2 is the financial requirement, and paragraph 13 is how you can meet it :

2. In respect of salaried employment in the UK, all of the following evidence must be provided:

(a) Wage slips covering:

(i) a period of 6 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months (and where paragraph 13(b ) of this Appendix does not apply); or

(ii) any period of salaried employment in the period of 12 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) of this Appendix), or in the financial year(s) relied upon by a self-employed person.

13. Based on evidence that meets the requirements of this Appendix, and can be taken into account with reference to the applicable provisions of Appendix FM, gross annual income under paragraphs E-ECP.3.1., E-LTRP.3.1., E-ECC.2.1. and E-LTRC.2.1. will be calculated in the following ways:

(a) Where the person is in salaried employment in the UK at the date of application and has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months, their gross annual income will be (where paragraph 13((b ) does not apply) the total of:

(i) The gross annual salary from their employment as it was at its lowest level in the 6 months prior to the date of application;

(ii) The gross amount of any specified non-employment income (other than pension income) received by them or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application; and

(iii) The gross annual income from a UK or foreign State pension or a private pension received by them or their partner.

(iv ) Where the person is in salaried employment in the UK at the date of application and has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) , their gross annual income will be the total of:

(i) The gross annual salary from employment as it was at the date of application;

(ii) The gross amount of any specified non-employment income (other than pension income) received by them or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application; and

(iii) The gross annual income from a UK or foreign State pension or a private pension received by them or their partner.

So, it looks like, if your total salary for the 12 months prior to the date of application was 18,600 or more, then it doesn't matter is you had a low salary ( or nil salary) for any one of those 12 months. The changes come into effect on 13th December 2012.

i only earnt 14,000 last year, just a shame about my rent money not going into my bank, anyway i,ve sorted that now all rent is going into my bank, but sounds like i,ll still have to do another tourist visa....thanks again tony

tony, i,ve got this all wrong,,ok i earnt 14k last year but i havent included the tax and national insurance i payed. i also will have one months rent money of 800 pounds or if i wait another month, thats 2 months 1600..plus tax and national insurance...i think i might scrape it over the 12 month period...am i writing correct

[VisasPlus]

Karen,

These are the changes ( for sponsors in salaried employment in the UK). Paragraph 2 is the financial requirement, and paragraph 13 is how you can meet it :

2. In respect of salaried employment in the UK, all of the following evidence must be provided:

(a) Wage slips covering:

(i) a period of 6 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months (and where paragraph 13(b ) of this Appendix does not apply); or

(ii) any period of salaried employment in the period of 12 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) of this Appendix), or in the financial year(s) relied upon by a self-employed person.

13. Based on evidence that meets the requirements of this Appendix, and can be taken into account with reference to the applicable provisions of Appendix FM, gross annual income under paragraphs E-ECP.3.1., E-LTRP.3.1., E-ECC.2.1. and E-LTRC.2.1. will be calculated in the following ways:

(a) Where the person is in salaried employment in the UK at the date of application and has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months, their gross annual income will be (where paragraph 13((b ) does not apply) the total of:

(i) The gross annual salary from their employment as it was at its lowest level in the 6 months prior to the date of application;

(ii) The gross amount of any specified non-employment income (other than pension income) received by them or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application; and

(iii) The gross annual income from a UK or foreign State pension or a private pension received by them or their partner.

(iv ) Where the person is in salaried employment in the UK at the date of application and has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) , their gross annual income will be the total of:

(i) The gross annual salary from employment as it was at the date of application;

(ii) The gross amount of any specified non-employment income (other than pension income) received by them or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application; and

(iii) The gross annual income from a UK or foreign State pension or a private pension received by them or their partner.

So, it looks like, if your total salary for the 12 months prior to the date of application was 18,600 or more, then it doesn't matter is you had a low salary ( or nil salary) for any one of those 12 months. The changes come into effect on 13th December 2012.

i only earnt 14,000 last year, just a shame about my rent money not going into my bank, anyway i,ve sorted that now all rent is going into my bank, but sounds like i,ll still have to do another tourist visa....thanks again tony

tony, i,ve got this all wrong,,ok i earnt 14k last year but i havent included the tax and national insurance i payed. i also will have one months rent money of 800 pounds or if i wait another month, thats 2 months 1600..plus tax and national insurance...i think i might scrape it over the 12 month period...am i writing correct

It might be okay, but I would like to see the documents to confirm it.

[KarenBlackwell]

Karen,

These are the changes ( for sponsors in salaried employment in the UK). Paragraph 2 is the financial requirement, and paragraph 13 is how you can meet it :

2. In respect of salaried employment in the UK, all of the following evidence must be provided:

(a) Wage slips covering:

(i) a period of 6 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months (and where paragraph 13(b ) of this Appendix does not apply); or

(ii) any period of salaried employment in the period of 12 months prior to the date of application if the applicant has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) of this Appendix), or in the financial year(s) relied upon by a self-employed person.

13. Based on evidence that meets the requirements of this Appendix, and can be taken into account with reference to the applicable provisions of Appendix FM, gross annual income under paragraphs E-ECP.3.1., E-LTRP.3.1., E-ECC.2.1. and E-LTRC.2.1. will be calculated in the following ways:

(a) Where the person is in salaried employment in the UK at the date of application and has been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months, their gross annual income will be (where paragraph 13((b ) does not apply) the total of:

(i) The gross annual salary from their employment as it was at its lowest level in the 6 months prior to the date of application;

(ii) The gross amount of any specified non-employment income (other than pension income) received by them or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application; and

(iii) The gross annual income from a UK or foreign State pension or a private pension received by them or their partner.

(iv ) Where the person is in salaried employment in the UK at the date of application and has been employed by their current employer for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) , their gross annual income will be the total of:

(i) The gross annual salary from employment as it was at the date of application;

(ii) The gross amount of any specified non-employment income (other than pension income) received by them or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application; and

(iii) The gross annual income from a UK or foreign State pension or a private pension received by them or their partner.

So, it looks like, if your total salary for the 12 months prior to the date of application was 18,600 or more, then it doesn't matter is you had a low salary ( or nil salary) for any one of those 12 months. The changes come into effect on 13th December 2012.

i only earnt 14,000 last year, just a shame about my rent money not going into my bank, anyway i,ve sorted that now all rent is going into my bank, but sounds like i,ll still have to do another tourist visa....thanks again tony

tony, i,ve got this all wrong,,ok i earnt 14k last year but i havent included the tax and national insurance i payed. i also will have one months rent money of 800 pounds or if i wait another month, thats 2 months 1600..plus tax and national insurance...i think i might scrape it over the 12 month period...am i writing correct

It might be okay, but I would like to see the documents to confirm it.

ok just chasing up my years wages ..may take a day or to