Thai Rice Mountain Casts Shadow Over World Market

[Thai at Heart]

Now 2012 the rice farmers in Thailand gets 20 baht per kilogram for the worlds best quality rice, Jasmine Rice, Home malee.

How much earns the ricefarmers in the USA for one kilogram of the best rice?

You miss the point. The US or Oz rice farmer produces many many multiples of a Thai rice farmer, and thus manages a reasonable income.

What is the point of subsidising an inefficient and uneconomic producer who can't grow enough rice to satisfy his own income requirements - so that he will continue to do it, remaining poor while using taxpayer's money better spent elsewhere?

The EU did it for 40 years..............

But not exactly a guiding light

[Thai at Heart]

Frankly, having grown up on a farm and knowing that a bit of government help and good cooperatives system are needed to fight against international subsidies (which all large agricultural countries play, the USA being NO exception). 99.9% of people commenting now both reporters, TV ppl, and political advantage crowd have no idea what they are talking about. All it will take is a drought in India or a freeze over in China and the government will make do very well with 12 million tons feed onto the market. This amount is nothing unusual. My father was for 15 years a director of the Australian Barley Board, so I know how international trade of grains works. Thailand is not in a bad position.

As long as they can store it until there is a shortage somewhere. They implemented this just when China and India were full up to the brim.

Bad timing, but a coup here or there.....

[thaicbr]

Frankly, having grown up on a farm and knowing that a bit of government help and good cooperatives system are needed to fight against international subsidies (which all large agricultural countries play, the USA being NO exception). 99.9% of people commenting now both reporters, TV ppl, and political advantage crowd have no idea what they are talking about. All it will take is a drought in India or a freeze over in China and the government will make do very well with 12 million tons feed onto the market. This amount is nothing unusual. My father was for 15 years a director of the Australian Barley Board, so I know how international trade of grains works. Thailand is not in a bad position.

As long as they can store it until there is a shortage somewhere. They implemented this just when China and India were full up to the brim.

Bad timing, but a coup here or there.....

Trouble is after 6 mths stored how it is it starts deteriorating. Then worth less than now

sent from my ..................#

[Thai at Heart]

Frankly, having grown up on a farm and knowing that a bit of government help and good cooperatives system are needed to fight against international subsidies (which all large agricultural countries play, the USA being NO exception). 99.9% of people commenting now both reporters, TV ppl, and political advantage crowd have no idea what they are talking about. All it will take is a drought in India or a freeze over in China and the government will make do very well with 12 million tons feed onto the market. This amount is nothing unusual. My father was for 15 years a director of the Australian Barley Board, so I know how international trade of grains works. Thailand is not in a bad position.

As long as they can store it until there is a shortage somewhere. They implemented this just when China and India were full up to the brim.

Bad timing, but a coup here or there.....

Trouble is after 6 mths stored how it is it starts deteriorating. Then worth less than now

sent from my ..................#

if they had a contingency they would have built silo storage big enough. But 10mn tonnes of storage is gargantuan.

It would probably look like 10000s of icbms from space.

[babydriver]

The Australian wheat crop has been dismal.

down 11% on last year, the largest on record. 2012 comes in at the 4th largest year on record, the last 3 being the last 3 years.

Get ya hand off it.

http://www.indexmund...raph=production

http://www.businessw...t-in-five-years

Down 28% according to bloomberg West australian crop down 6 million tonnes from last year alone

My hand is off it

Edited October 26, 2012 by babydriver

[dickyknee]

The Australian wheat crop has been dismal.

down 11% on last year, the largest on record. 2012 comes in at the 4th largest year on record, the last 3 being the last 3 years.

Get ya hand off it.

http://www.indexmund...raph=production

http://www.businessw...t-in-five-years

Down 28% according to bloomberg West australian crop down 6 million tonnes from last year alone

My hand is off it

nope, your other hand has a firm grasp too.

sorry, i'll edit... because it isnt obvious to some.

now i quote year-on-year production figures for wheat in austraila...

vs...

"will probably decline" from bloomberg...

then you quote some bloke in Melbourne speculating on wheat in WA...

blah.

Edited October 26, 2012 by dickyknee

[Skywalker69]

They say they will organise government to government deals to sell the rice. Are the other governments of the world really going to buy all this overpriced rice using thier own taxpayers money to bail Thailand out?

Only if the could get it cheap.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Are Thai beers made with rice? I have an idea. It might not suit the scale of the Thai rice mountain problem but it's a step in the right direction. Maybe a lao khao that's drinkable too.

Or maybe they can do a nice Sake, rice wine of it, They can call it Château Shinawatra.

They can call in the famous Spin doctor Mr. Amsterdam to publish some bs story about the "Château Shinawatra" and call it the world's first "Grand Cru" Rive wine. All buyers of the new Thailand Elite Card will get a case for free. Jatuporn with all his free time now after he didn't get his PM seat can drive around in the Redshirt heartland in a speaker car and sell it as well (You have to give the guy some credit, he must be a good salesmen after all, he could sell in mass torching of Bangkok to a huge crowd) Instead of Redshirt rallies they could arrange mass Redshirt (Rice) Wine tastings parties, the Yellow shirts will love this as the Redshirts will start fight each other after a couple of bottles. Yingluck will also save face; the government will not lose any money from the Rice pledging scam. with all the new found wealth the rice farmers now got they can buy back the their own rice as rice wine, and they will all be in a pacified drunken state and will not create any political problems for a while.

[Ricardo]

Frankly, having grown up on a farm and knowing that a bit of government help and good cooperatives system are needed to fight against international subsidies (which all large agricultural countries play, the USA being NO exception). 99.9% of people commenting now both reporters, TV ppl, and political advantage crowd have no idea what they are talking about. All it will take is a drought in India or a freeze over in China and the government will make do very well with 12 million tons feed onto the market. This amount is nothing unusual. My father was for 15 years a director of the Australian Barley Board, so I know how international trade of grains works. Thailand is not in a bad position.

Fair comment, if the Indian drought or Chinese freeze happen, but that surely requires an Act of God ? So the Thai government gambles billions of dollars of public-money on a favourable Act-of-God actually occurring ? One heck of a risk IMO !

When the strategy is for several years, according to the Big Boss, and market manipulation needed for at least the next two or three years, that's surely a bit of a stretch ? Perhaps a series of Acts of God will arrive ?

And as others pointed out already, you need sufficient storage-space available to carry the peak-stocks under the strategy, which Thaksin says is already (as of one month ago) at 21 million tons (4 of milled rice & 17 of paddy), and when the new crop will arrive shortly.

Better start shipping soon now, or building extra storage-capacity, but resuming significant sales/exports will then reduce world market prices again, won't it ?

Edited October 27, 2012 by Ricardo

[jayjayjayjay]

Frankly, having grown up on a farm and knowing that a bit of government help and good cooperatives system are needed to fight against international subsidies (which all large agricultural countries play, the USA being NO exception). 99.9% of people commenting now both reporters, TV ppl, and political advantage crowd have no idea what they are talking about. All it will take is a drought in India or a freeze over in China and the government will make do very well with 12 million tons feed onto the market. This amount is nothing unusual. My father was for 15 years a director of the Australian Barley Board, so I know how international trade of grains works. Thailand is not in a bad position.

As long as they can store it until there is a shortage somewhere. They implemented this just when China and India were full up to the brim.

Bad timing, but a coup here or there.....

Trouble is after 6 mths stored how it is it starts deteriorating. Then worth less than now

sent from my ..................#

Grains can be stored for years. It depends only on the quality of storage. Modern silos are not the latest method used. Ground bunkers which Thailand could use are very common now, but if stored in good quality hessian bags in storage warehouses is not a problem. Much of what I have seen in Thailand is stored in this type of system. It is not the false information of 6 month old rice is worthless that is your point, it is rice that is stolen by traders, officials, local people that is much more this issue.

[jayjayjayjay]

Frankly, having grown up on a farm and knowing that a bit of government help and good cooperatives system are needed to fight against international subsidies (which all large agricultural countries play, the USA being NO exception). 99.9% of people commenting now both reporters, TV ppl, and political advantage crowd have no idea what they are talking about. All it will take is a drought in India or a freeze over in China and the government will make do very well with 12 million tons feed onto the market. This amount is nothing unusual. My father was for 15 years a director of the Australian Barley Board, so I know how international trade of grains works. Thailand is not in a bad position.

Fair comment, if the Indian drought or Chinese freeze happen, but that surely requires an Act of God ? So the Thai government gambles billions of dollars of public-money on a favourable Act-of-God actually occurring ? One heck of a risk IMO !

When the strategy is for several years, according to the Big Boss, and market manipulation needed for at least the next two or three years, that's surely a bit of a stretch ? Perhaps a series of Acts of God will arrive ?

And as others pointed out already, you need sufficient storage-space available to carry the peak-stocks under the strategy, which Thaksin says is already (as of one month ago) at 21 million tons (4 of milled rice & 17 of paddy), and when the new crop will arrive shortly.

Better start shipping soon now, or building extra storage-capacity, but resuming significant sales/exports will then reduce world market prices again, won't it ?

Concrete grain storage will hold 2000, maybe 3000 ton at best. You can put 500,000 ton in bunker storage with ease.

http://www.bartlett....49062836107.jpg

Protectionism in agriculture is just part of the worldwide trade system. The WTO can't even begin to have an influence on how to implement pressure or trade rules. It is funny though, the people that make the largest noise over huge grain storage problems are the same vocal people when diminishing global food stocks are being talked about. 21 million ton storage of rice is a good thing. I was making a point that the entire storage of Thai rice could be sold at a premium if either of the above cases were to present themselves, in a normal year the stock will be traded as usual as it is at the moment. When a shortage becomes omnipresent, what will happen? Prices go up and the government can trade out at break even...... and guess what, they have influenced the world market with an upwards trend to benefit the entire rural community back home.. something to be congratulated on, not continually attacked as this point is on a daily basis in Thailand... I would like to know, all of you armchair critics, what HAVE you done to help the farming community in Thailand?

As a farmer, I will choose a government whom support the agricultural sector with base price support over the government who kisses the ass of so called democratic loving city folk (aka unproductive traders/bankers/business people living off the farmers back)

Edited October 27, 2012 by jayjayjayjay

[ballpoint]

Frankly, having grown up on a farm and knowing that a bit of government help and good cooperatives system are needed to fight against international subsidies (which all large agricultural countries play, the USA being NO exception). 99.9% of people commenting now both reporters, TV ppl, and political advantage crowd have no idea what they are talking about. All it will take is a drought in India or a freeze over in China and the government will make do very well with 12 million tons feed onto the market. This amount is nothing unusual. My father was for 15 years a director of the Australian Barley Board, so I know how international trade of grains works. Thailand is not in a bad position.

So the Thai Government put all their hopes on "a drought in India or a freeze over in China"? Isn't the betting sum a little high for these odds?

Now we see the reason for the shadow causing mountain. Block China's sunlight.

Throwing money into an inefficient farming system is not the way to better these people's lives. It just leads to an increased subsidy mentality and an upwardly spiralling reliance on handouts and debt. But that is just what you want when you rely on a subjugated population in order to keep your own power. As the World Bank reported in 2005 "The Northeast generates just over one fifth of Thailand’s agricultural GDP, even though the region accounts for one half of the farms and two fifths of the agricultural land". That's a big disparity. How much money has been spent on improving farming infrastructure in the Northeast, such as irrigation, and the encouragement of more diverse crops in the years the report covers and those following? How much of the money thrown at the farmers was actually used by them on something that improved their output or methods, rather than a case of lao khao, and a down payment on a motor cycle or pickup truck?

And if someone can point me to a mill or wholesaler that actually pays 20 baht for a kilo of Hom Mali rice then please do so, because I have yet to find one. They all seem to be collecting it from the government though. The whole business is a perfect microcosm of how the legend of Thaksin the saviour of the poor got started and perpetuates. Funny how there's still so many of those poor that we argue over the best way to help them when they were all saved, not once but twice. Firstly in the years he was in charge (and here at the time) and again just recently now that everyone is rich following over a year of PTP rule.

Edited October 27, 2012 by ballpoint

[OzMick]

Concrete grain storage will hold 2000, maybe 3000 ton at best. You can put 500,000 ton in bunker storage with ease.

http://www.bartlett....49062836107.jpg

Protectionism in agriculture is just part of the worldwide trade system. The WTO can't even begin to have an influence on how to implement pressure or trade rules. It is funny though, the people that make the largest noise over huge grain storage problems are the same vocal people when diminishing global food stocks are being talked about. 21 million ton storage of rice is a good thing. I was making a point that the entire storage of Thai rice could be sold at a premium if either of the above cases were to present themselves, in a normal year the stock will be traded as usual as it is at the moment. When a shortage becomes omnipresent, what will happen? Prices go up and the government can trade out at break even...... and guess what, they have influenced the world market with an upwards trend to benefit the entire rural community back home.. something to be congratulated on, not continually attacked as this point is on a daily basis in Thailand... I would like to know, all of you armchair critics, what HAVE you done to help the farming community in Thailand?

As a farmer, I will choose a government whom support the agricultural sector with base price support over the government who kisses the ass of so called democratic loving city folk (aka unproductive traders/bankers/business people living off the farmers back)

So to summarise, keep storing millions of tonnes of rice in holes in the ground until one day, maybe, there will be a world-wide shortage of food and with luck they might break even. Meanwhile billions of baht is lost in corruption, storage costs and waste to support an inefficient and uneconomic industry - but that's OK because you're a farmer and farmers are nice people (who will vote for whoever promises the biggest subsidy.)

What do I do to support the farming industry? I buy their products at market prices, and pay the sales tax which is wasted supporting those who can't produce efficiently.

[slapout]

I think the plight of the small Thai rice farm is fairly well recongized, its the present government who has managed to divert the majority of the funds away from the farmer and subsquently the local economy, that so many are complaining about.

The term, "second crop" is being bandied around by officials, who do not seem to realize that some areas of Thailand are harvesting their fourth crop, at present . Drying, transport, storage, treatment, selling, etc are all expenses which come after the farmer gets his pitance (and yes that is what they are getting if they can even get into the program)

Anyone who would recommend bunker storage in a tropical climate, as a long term storage solution, to a poorly planned project, is just contributing another problem to the many already encountered.To even compare this plan to Ag programs in the real world, seems to indicate little real understanding of either, but probably better than to factor in a potential crop failure in other countries as a possible price booster.

This program is being handled in much the same way as last years flood preperation, relief, payments, etc were. By inexperienced incompent people who are out to line their own and their henchmens pockets, in the shortest possible time by the largest amount possible. The lack of preplanning, to determine need, best method, etc by knowledgeable/compatent people, seems to be charchter trait of most of the present governent

[jayjayjayjay]

Concrete grain storage will hold 2000, maybe 3000 ton at best. You can put 500,000 ton in bunker storage with ease.

http://www.bartlett....49062836107.jpg

Protectionism in agriculture is just part of the worldwide trade system. The WTO can't even begin to have an influence on how to implement pressure or trade rules. It is funny though, the people that make the largest noise over huge grain storage problems are the same vocal people when diminishing global food stocks are being talked about. 21 million ton storage of rice is a good thing. I was making a point that the entire storage of Thai rice could be sold at a premium if either of the above cases were to present themselves, in a normal year the stock will be traded as usual as it is at the moment. When a shortage becomes omnipresent, what will happen? Prices go up and the government can trade out at break even...... and guess what, they have influenced the world market with an upwards trend to benefit the entire rural community back home.. something to be congratulated on, not continually attacked as this point is on a daily basis in Thailand... I would like to know, all of you armchair critics, what HAVE you done to help the farming community in Thailand?

As a farmer, I will choose a government whom support the agricultural sector with base price support over the government who kisses the ass of so called democratic loving city folk (aka unproductive traders/bankers/business people living off the farmers back)

So to summarise, keep storing millions of tonnes of rice in holes in the ground until one day, maybe, there will be a world-wide shortage of food and with luck they might break even. Meanwhile billions of baht is lost in corruption, storage costs and waste to support an inefficient and uneconomic industry - but that's OK because you're a farmer and farmers are nice people (who will vote for whoever promises the biggest subsidy.)

What do I do to support the farming industry? I buy their products at market prices, and pay the sales tax which is wasted supporting those who can't produce efficiently.

Probably the single most ridiculous response on an agricultural based topic I've ever seen, in keeping with your lack of concern for the people involved. Storing grains in the ground might help someone... Duaahhhhhhh, well f8k me. Yes it might just help someone. Where the F8 do you think your f8iing supermarket food comes from. You have no idea. Your market price food just happens to come through multiple levels of traders who on a continuous basis screw over the individual farmer as the nature of his business is cash heavy, and comes in very inconsistent monthly payments, not like your pension or whatever you feed on.

Oh and I pay f8ing taxes, WELL GOOD FOR YOU. Now the government, whether it be this administration or the predecessor (of which I do not recall you making any f8ng complaints), took YOUR tax money and have helped with a support mechanism for the rice farmer. If you don't want your tax money going to them, well get out of F8ing dodge!

[babydriver]

The Australian wheat crop has been dismal.

down 11% on last year, the largest on record. 2012 comes in at the 4th largest year on record, the last 3 being the last 3 years.

Get ya hand off it.

http://www.indexmund...raph=production

http://www.businessw...t-in-five-years

Down 28% according to bloomberg West australian crop down 6 million tonnes from last year alone

My hand is off it

nope, your other hand has a firm grasp too.

sorry, i'll edit... because it isnt obvious to some.

now i quote year-on-year production figures for wheat in austraila...

vs...

"will probably decline" from bloomberg...

then you quote some bloke in Melbourne speculating on wheat in WA...

blah.

http://www.agrimoney.com/news/us-wheat-farmers-raise-bet-on-rains-coming-good--5135.html

The US dept of agriculture does not agree with you either.

But <deleted> would they know

[dickyknee]

http://www.agrimoney...good--5135.html

The US dept of agriculture does not agree with you either.

But <deleted> would they know

this is getting silly.

"The Australian wheat crop has been dismal" is what you said, because it is down on last years record crop (which is up over 30% from 2 year ago, and nearly 3 times what it was 6 years ago)... down to what? at worst - well above average? not dismal anyways.

blah.

[belg]

like most thai people, they will NOT LEARN from this.. for face, they prefer to be stubborn and go on with their crazy whatevers, as long as they have a feeling the WON