Schengen Visa For Wife Of Eu National

[goatfarmer]

Did she have a copy of the email with her?

What did she do?

What are you going to do next?

[beano2274]

Did she have a copy of the email with her?

What did she do?

What are you going to do next?

She had a copy of the email with her. She left the Embassy and phoned me, I phoned them and the German lady said she did not believe the marriage certificate was real, even though it had been accepted by other embassies.

I am going to my embassy to get it certified, and I will be going with my wife the next time, also I have been in touch with Berlin again and the woman there is going to make sure we have a smooth time the next time. Am actually p8ssed that I have to pay for the certification when the Thai staff at the German Embassy would know it is real, and also if they checked my passport correctly it says THAI WIFE.

My wife brought up a point, I have just applied for an extension and have a date of 30 November on my passport, she thinks they might refuse the visa as I have no permission to stay after that, but as we all know, I have to report back 30 days after application for my extension to get the stamp for one year.

[goatfarmer]

Did she have a copy of the email with her?

What did she do?

What are you going to do next?

She had a copy of the email with her. She left the Embassy and phoned me, I phoned them and the German lady said she did not believe the marriage certificate was real, even though it had been accepted by other embassies.

I am going to my embassy to get it certified, and I will be going with my wife the next time, also I have been in touch with Berlin again and the woman there is going to make sure we have a smooth time the next time. Am actually p8ssed that I have to pay for the certification when the Thai staff at the German Embassy would know it is real, and also if they checked my passport correctly it says THAI WIFE.

My wife brought up a point, I have just applied for an extension and have a date of 30 November on my passport, she thinks they might refuse the visa as I have no permission to stay after that, but as we all know, I have to report back 30 days after application for my extension to get the stamp for one year.

What extension are you referring to? If it is permission to remain in Thailand that is not relevant to your wife's right under the Directive.

If you are p&ssed and you have evidence that the embassy does not require certification then contact the person from the embassy who sent you the email.

[beano2274]

Did she have a copy of the email with her?

What did she do?

What are you going to do next?

She had a copy of the email with her. She left the Embassy and phoned me, I phoned them and the German lady said she did not believe the marriage certificate was real, even though it had been accepted by other embassies.

I am going to my embassy to get it certified, and I will be going with my wife the next time, also I have been in touch with Berlin again and the woman there is going to make sure we have a smooth time the next time. Am actually p8ssed that I have to pay for the certification when the Thai staff at the German Embassy would know it is real, and also if they checked my passport correctly it says THAI WIFE.

My wife brought up a point, I have just applied for an extension and have a date of 30 November on my passport, she thinks they might refuse the visa as I have no permission to stay after that, but as we all know, I have to report back 30 days after application for my extension to get the stamp for one year.

What extension are you referring to? If it is permission to remain in Thailand that is not relevant to your wife's right under the Directive.

If you are p&ssed and you have evidence that the embassy does not require certification then contact the person from the embassy who sent you the email.

I looked on the website of the French TLS and it seemed to be a requirement, but for the Swiss Embassy it wasn't.

Am gonna do it and go with her next week to make sure it goes okay.

[beano2274]

My wife went today, the girl asked her questions took some of the documents including bookings, then told her the visa was free and on the receipt it says "Application as EU Spouse", got to pick it up on Thursday.

My wife also commented that the level of customer service in the whole area had increased significantly.

[goatfarmer]

My wife also commented that the level of customer service in the whole area had increased significantly.

No doubt thanks to your efforts. Well done, Beano!

[jackinbkk]

Good luck beano. I live and work in the UK with my Thai wife. She now has a UK resident card as the partner of an EEA national exercising treaty rights. Last month I flew to Barcelona with her. When checking in the desk clerk didn't believe she didn't need a shengen. I had a print out of the EU directive which they wouldn't even look at. We can't trust something you've printed was their answer. He asked his boss. She didn't know. She called head office. A nice 10 minute wait wondering if we could get on the plane. Time already booked off work, hotels booked, hire car, not to mention the headache of waking up at 5am to travel to the airport etc. I know people have been wrongly refused in the past.

I knew we should be allowed to board. Finally they said ok and let us on. Most EU officials are not aware of the directive and rights of movement. Be ready to tell them straight. It's such a pain but it will be worth it in the end.

[7by7]

Clerks at airline check ins are not EU officials! They work for the airline.

It is up to each individual airline whether or not they will carry a passenger; visa or no visa.

[goatfarmer]

Clerks at airline check ins are not EU officials! They work for the airline.

It is up to each individual airline whether or not they will carry a passenger; visa or no visa.

If you have the necessary visa or right to enter the country of destination and you are refused due to mistake on the part of the airline ground staff I would say that's breach of contract.

[beano2274]

So Result - wife got a Visa for 15 days, and it was free.

[durhamboy]

Clerks at airline check ins are not EU officials! They work for the airline.

It is up to each individual airline whether or not they will carry a passenger; visa or no visa.

If you have the necessary visa or right to enter the country of destination and you are refused due to mistake on the part of the airline ground staff I would say that's breach of contract.

Yes Goatfarmer I would agree with you. I really do think people should at least try to assert their rights to visa free travel to the EU. By all means check with the carrier first by sending them an email. They should reply that they agree that no visa is required and then take that along to check-in. Also get a similar confirmation from the relevant embassy. A lot less hassle then getting a visa - free or otherwise.

[7by7]

Clerks at airline check ins are not EU officials! They work for the airline.

It is up to each individual airline whether or not they will carry a passenger; visa or no visa.

If you have the necessary visa or right to enter the country of destination and you are refused due to mistake on the part of the airline ground staff I would say that's breach of contract.

If only!

Read the terms and conditions of carriage of any airline, the small print, and you will find that they reserve the right to refuse to carry any passenger for any reason.

By purchasing the ticket you agree to these terms.

Although I pointed out earlier in this topic that a qualifying non EEA national family member of an EEA national does not, strictly speaking, need a visa to enter an EEA country other than the country of which the EEA national is a citizen if traveling with or to join their EEA national family member; as Eff1n2ret quite rightly pointed out, being allowed entry is one thing; getting to a port of entry is another!

[goatfarmer]

Clerks at airline check ins are not EU officials! They work for the airline.

It is up to each individual airline whether or not they will carry a passenger; visa or no visa.

If you have the necessary visa or right to enter the country of destination and you are refused due to mistake on the part of the airline ground staff I would say that's breach of contract.

If only!

Read the terms and conditions of carriage of any airline, the small print, and you will find that they reserve the right to refuse to carry any passenger for any reason.

By purchasing the ticket you agree to these terms.

If the carrier is one of the 240 members of the IATA it will be bound by the IATA General Conditions of Carriage.

Article 8 of the General Conditions deals with Refusal of Carriage.

8.1 Right to Refuse Carriage

Carrier may refuse carriage of any passenger or passenger's baggage for reasons of safety or if, in the exercise of its reasonable discretion, Carrier determines that:

8.1.1

such action is necessary in order to comply with any applicable laws, regulations, or orders of any state or country to be flown from, into or over."

If you were travelling within the EU with an EU national spouse and holding a Residence Card issued in accordance with Article 10 of the Directive and you were refused carriage for not having a visa such refusal would not be an exercise of reasonable discretion and the airline would be in breach of contract.

[7by7]

As a well respected, and experienced, member said

I don't know what further explanation can be given beyond what I said in posts #52 and #75, and VisaPlus' very detailed exposition in post #76 of why the airlines will not carry passengers who are not properly documented. If you think it's worth trying otherwise, go ahead, let us know how it works out.

jackinbkk says he managed it, but only after a lot of hassle and delay.

And that was flying from one EEA country to another!

I expect it will be nigh on impossible if flying from outside the EEA.

Let us know how you get on when you try it.

[goatfarmer]

1

If you were travelling within the EU with an EU national spouse and holding a Residence Card issued in accordance with Article 10 of the Directive and you were refused carriage for not having a visa such refusal would not be an exercise of reasonable discretion and the airline would be in breach of contract.

Pardon me for being legalistic but I was only commenting on the lawfulness of a refusal to carry in one particular case: namely, travel within EU with a spouse who holds the "Residence Documentation" stamp in her/his passport (see sample below). The advice of the Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs shows the impracticality of relying on the visa-free approach;

It is advisable to print this page and to present it together with your letter from UK Border Agency regarding your Residence Documentation and proof of your relationship with the EU/EEA national to the airline at the point of departure or Danish/Icelandic Border Control on entry into Denmark or Iceland in case of problems.

http://storbritannie...-eea-nationals/

I wouldn't recommend that a spouse attempt to enter the EU from a non-EU country without a visa. I mentioned on page 3 of this topic that Article 5(2) of the Directive requires that a spouse of an EU national travelling with said spouse have a visa. The exception in Article 5(4) does not derogate from that principle:

Article 5(4) of the Directive:

4. Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence.

On a strict reading of this provision there is no right to enter without a visa. There is only the right to prove that you are covered by the right of free movement before being turned back. I would only rely on this provision in exceptional cases. The situation with a Residence Documentation stamp is completely different. There the holder has the right to travel visa free and the only question is whether it's worth the hassle of educating airline staff and border control.

[durhamboy]

Thanks Goatfarmer for the clarification. Although it would be best to get a visa if arriving from outside the EU if arriving from inside the EU e.g. from UK and spouse has a Residence stamp in his/her passport then surely it is best to at least try the non-visa route by emails to carriers/embassies before travel. If people dont start to assert their rights then they will never get the benefit of them. I think it would only take a few cases before the right to visa-free tavel within Europe would become common knowledge among airline and immigration staff.

[jackinbkk]

As a well respected, and experienced, member said

I don't know what further explanation can be given beyond what I said in posts #52 and #75, and VisaPlus' very detailed exposition in post #76 of why the airlines will not carry passengers who are not properly documented. If you think it's worth trying otherwise, go ahead, let us know how it works out.

jackinbkk says he managed it, but only after a lot of hassle and delay.

And that was flying from one EEA country to another!

I expect it will be nigh on impossible if flying from outside the EEA.

Let us know how you get on when you try it.

Hi,

I just want to make my experience clear and those that I have read about on other immigration forums.

When we went to check in the first thing the guy working behind the counter did was look through my wifes passport for a valid schengen visa.

I explained there was no need but he didn't believe me. I offered him a print out of the EU directive with the right of movement section highlighted but he and his manager refused to accept it. She too had no knowledge of the directive. They basically wouldn't believe a word I said.

In 80 to 90% of cases a schengen would be required and that's what they are used to. His manager called head office and for a few minutes it was their call. Luckily they had the correct information.

However it was a concern because some non-EU travellers have reported being refused and then seeking compensation for the unnecessary refusal. Which as tou can imagine is like getting blood from a stone. One non-EU traveller reported boarding a flight to Spain and being refused entry at immigration. I found no problems at immigration but the staff their probably rotate in and out very often.

The advice given is to take all paperwork you'd need to make a visa application in Bangkok. Have the EU directive and of course do not be refused without a fight if necessary. Know your rights and be ready to make them heard.

[goatfarmer]

Thanks Goatfarmer for the clarification. Although it would be best to get a visa if arriving from outside the EU if arriving from inside the EU e.g. from UK and spouse has a Residence stamp in his/her passport then surely it is best to at least try the non-visa route by emails to carriers/embassies before travel. If people dont start to assert their rights then they will never get the benefit of them. I think it would only take a few cases before the right to visa-free tavel within Europe would become common knowledge among airline and immigration staff.

I agree entirely. If we don't assert our rights what's the point of having them.

[goatfarmer]

As a well respected, and experienced, member said

I don't know what further explanation can be given beyond what I said in posts #52 and #75, and VisaPlus' very detailed exposition in post #76 of why the airlines will not carry passengers who are not properly documented. If you think it's worth trying otherwise, go ahead, let us know how it works out.

jackinbkk says he managed it, but only after a lot of hassle and delay.

And that was flying from one EEA country to another!

I expect it will be nigh on impossible if flying from outside the EEA.

Let us know how you get on when you try it.

Hi,

I just want to make my experience clear and those that I have read about on other immigration forums.

When we went to check in the first thing the guy working behind the counter did was look through my wifes passport for a valid schengen visa.

I explained there was no need but he didn't believe me. I offered him a print out of the EU directive with the right of movement section highlighted but he and his manager refused to accept it. She too had no knowledge of the directive. They basically wouldn't believe a word I said.

In 80 to 90% of cases a schengen would be required and that's what they are used to. His manager called head office and for a few minutes it was their call. Luckily they had the correct information.

However it was a concern because some non-EU travellers have reported being refused and then seeking compensation for the unnecessary refusal. Which as tou can imagine is like getting blood from a stone. One non-EU traveller reported boarding a flight to Spain and being refused entry at immigration. I found no problems at immigration but the staff their probably rotate in and out very often.

The advice given is to take all paperwork you'd need to make a visa application in Bangkok. Have the EU directive and of course do not be refused without a fight if necessary. Know your rights and be ready to make them heard.

You didn't mention whether your wife had a Residence Stamp.

Where were you travelling from and to?

[7by7]

It must be added that there is a difference between Permanent Residence issued under the EEA regulations and Indefinite Leave to Remain issued under the UK immigration rules.

I have heard of people with ILR having difficulties at EEA immigration because ILR is indefinite and not permanent!

[cuddleypete]

ILE = Indefinite Leave to Enter: Permanent residency gained prior to entering the country.

ILR = Indefinite Leave to Remain: Permanent residency gained whilst in the country.

Yes 7by7 I know sorry i wrote wrong should have been

ILE = Indefinite Leave to Enter: Residency gained prior to entering the country.

ILR = Indefinite Leave to Remain: Residency gained whilst in the country.

Edited November 25, 2012 by cuddleypete

[7by7]

Sorry, but neither ILR nor ILE are permanent, they are indefinite.

There is a difference between permanent and indefinite; albeit a very subtle one.

Of course, if an ILR, ILE or PR holder becomes a British citizen once qualified and obtains a British passport then they will have no difficulties entering other EEA countries

[durhamboy]

Sorry, but neither ILR nor ILE are permanent, they are indefinite.

There is a difference between permanent and indefinite; albeit a very subtle one.

Of course, if an ILR, ILE or PR holder becomes a British citizen once qualified and obtains a British passport then they will have no difficulties entering other EEA countries

Are you guys saying that if a Thai spouse only has the settlement visa or FLR then she cannot enjoy visa free travel in the EU under the directive? Must be at least ILR?

Thanks

[durhamboy]

Sorry but are you guys saying a Thai wife must have at least ILR to enjoy visa-free travel in the EU under the directive? Just a settlement visa or FLR doesnt qualify for visa free travel?

Thanks

[7by7]

As said earlier, if she is traveling with or to join your (assuming you are an EEA national) then technically she does not need a visa, simply evidence that she is married to you.

However, as also said earlier, without the appropriate visa she may have problems convincing immigration at the other end that she does qualify; assuming that she has been able to convince the carrier to take her there!

The above is the case whether she lives in the UK or not and regardless of her immigration status in the UK.

The EEA regulations say that she can travel freely within the EEA without you once she has permanent residence in an EEA state. The problem being that ILR is not permanent; it's indefinite.

As she is the spouse of an EEA national and lives in the UK, a Schengen visa will be quick, easy and free to obtain; so I'd recommend getting one to save possible hassle with the carrier or immigration on entering your destination.

Once qualified, if she becomes a British citizen then she can definitely travel freely within the EEA; just as you can.

[beano2274]

Just to add some more information, am going on holiday in May to Italy, contacted the Italian Embassy and VFS, both of them unaware of the correct documents to be submitted for my wife's application.

[The Learner]

In fact you have to go through the website of their external contractor, TLS, in order to find our that you are entitled to apply directly to the Embassy without an appointment or a fee. There is no list of required documents on the website but when you front up at the embassy, you will be given a list that includes the requirement for a marriage certificate that is legalised by the government or embassy of the EU citizen's home country.

.

Hello,

I am husband, UK citizen, with UK passport.

Can some one please confirm, the procedure for application for a French visa for my Non EEU wife.

previously, before we were married, we applied for Tourist visa's for her. Twice, no problems.

Paying the TLS fee, and the embassy visa charge.

Now we are married, do we apply for a similar "tourist visa" or a "spouse visa"

I feel a spouse visa is likley, but one never fully knows.

There was mention above in the cut down quote above, that we do not need to apply to TLS, the 3rd Party visa contractor, and that instead we could approach the Frence embassy directly.

The reason I am interested in this, is, even though her visa is issued "free and fast", if we applied via TLS, we would still need to pay their "handling fee"

Still learning.

[The Learner]

.

I had the French process a visa in three days once when wife and I decided to go to France on short notice. It was a teeth-pulling exercise.

.

Hello goatfarmer,

Please excuse my interuption to your thread.

I am UK citizen, and UK passport holder.

My wife, as one would expect, is Non EEU national.

I would be very interested to learn of you magnificent experience, 3 days is amazing.

Which documents did you submit, ?

Where they the 3 x documents you indicated on page 1 of this thread?, in reply to Beano ?

goatfarmer

Posted 2012-10-26 22:24:32

Provided you are not travelling to your home country the provisions of the Directive apply. The effect of the Directive is to give eligible beneficiaries the right to a visa.

This principle is laid down in Article 5 (2) of the Directive. It is interpreted in the Handbook for processing visa applications issued by the European Council on March 19, 2010. Part III of the Handbook deals with family members. It deals with the issue by asking three questions:

Question no 1: Is there an EU citizen from whom the visa applicant can derive any rights? In this case, I presume that is you although you have not stated that you are an EU citizen.

Question no 2: Does the visa applicant fall under the definition of “family member”? Spouse is defined as "core family member"

Question no 3: Does the visa applicant accompany or join the EU citizen?

You only need to establish these three facts. You do not need to provide proof of funds or accommodation or purpose of travel. Nor does your wife require travel insurance. Any such requirement would be an infringement of your right to free movement.

We have had 2 x tourist Shengen visas from the French, prior to our marriage.

Both via the TLS collections dept.

learning.

Edited February 15, 2013 by The Learner

[yannic]

question is what do you want to do in France? Holiday or move there to live? Thats a big difference and will decide what visa you need.

[The Learner]

My wife went today, the girl asked her questions took some of the documents including bookings, then told her the visa was free and on the receipt it says "Application as EU Spouse", got to pick it up on Thursday.

My wife also commented that the level of customer service in the whole area had increased significantly.

.

Well done,

We need more like you.

You stubbern bugger

learning