Canadian, Australian Found Dead In Bangkok Hotel Room

[Richard Hall]

And the very simple conclusion is... don't do drugs.

Case solved.

If you get killed buy a hooker; don't buy hookers.

if you get killed by your wire; don't get married.

if you get killed driving a car; don't drive cars

How far would you like to go with simplicity?

So far as my brain carries me.

If you consider your response logical, well, no more questions.

Go ahead, do drugs and face the consequences. The constant high appears to be what drug users strive for to escape reality. If this eventually materializes no need to shed a tear.

As said, case closed and easy to realize with a clear, unmanipulated mind.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Richard Hall

[Mosha]

Why oh why would you want to do this to yourself?? 27 and 31 <deleted>.

Drugs are the scourge of our time.

What a joke this statement is. Drug policy is the scourge of our time.

Alcohol is a drug. Tobacco is a drug. Medication from the pharmacy are drugs. Drugs are clearly not 'the scourge of our time.' It is the way we view drugs, the way we isolate some and discriminate against them, and mostly it is the way we view drug users / addicts - not as sick people who desperately need our help but as criminals who deserve to be punished for their crimes.

No one ever burgled my house in the UK for beer or fag money.

are you sure about that?

i would think that beer and fags were pretty high up on the list of things bought with your average burglar's ill gotten gains

The <deleted> that did it were well known, Trust me it wasn't fag money.

[Bill999]

Two boys partying? Why would they come to Thailand to sit in a room and snort substances in each other's company unless they were gays? Let's wait for the substance report. Sounds like that may open a few more options and I would bet there is foul play involved. Hotel in Klong Toei? Again why would anyone want to stay there?

There's more to Klong Toey than the slum. Thought you knew a bit about Bangkok? Emporium Suites is in the same district for example...why would anyone want to stay there?

[Konini]

I keep reading through this thread 'if they didn't in the first place.' and the 'don't do drugs' mantra.

The 'War' on drugs has been fought, lost and is now STILL being carried out in all countries all around the world.

The war on drugs can't be won any more than the war on terrorism. At least if the drugs were controlled (and probably taxed), there would be far fewer overdoses because of variation strength, deaths due to the various powders being mixed with other things to make it go further, bad batches of methamphetamine being cooked up by amateurs, and the crime rate would reduce - I'm with Mosha on this one; the bloke who shoved my elderly mother up against a wall and took her bag off her wasn't doing it for booze or fags. (Funny side of that one was she always carries her purse and keys in her pocket at my insistence - the idiot only got away with a pack of 3 huge knickers from Marks and Spencer and her angina spray, the only two things in the bag). She said he had 'crazy eyes'. That's a junkie in under 75-years-old language. Just because it's made available, doesn't make people do it. Lots of people don't drink. Lots of people don't smoke. In South Australia (state) and the ACT (territory) it is legal to grow your own dope for personal use. I can't remember the limit, either 3 or 5 plants. There are rules. You can't buy it, you can't sell it, but you can grow your own. A TINY amount of the population do. Most of them don't, just like most people don't smoke. Just because it's there, doesn't mean people will buy it.

Legalising this crap will at least bring some level of control, with the added benefit of putting the bad guys out of business. Why isn't some country going to stand up to the US and try it? Pick a country, any country with a fairly small population, 20-30 million, and trial it (for citizens only, not tourists). Trial it and see what happens when everything is legal. All it needs is a country with the balls to do it, but none have (although I have read something about heroin and Switzerland but I'm not sure what). <END RANT>

Edited October 27, 2012 by Konini

[Bill999]

If they could have popped along to a chemist and bought cocaine safely certainly they would still be alive.

So in a way I suppose, you are correct.

Why would that be then? It's impossible to overdose on drugs from a chemist, is it?

Another idiotic comment.

Just an observation re some other comments; there seems to be an uncomfortably large number of posters who know so much about illegal drugs and their consumption. It's almost as if some are bragging about their knowledge. Maybe this should be taken into account when reading some of the non-sensical posts that appear on TV.

In fact all I stated was that were people able to buy such drugs without being either cut with other substances or in the certainty of receiving cocaine rather than heroin then the likelihood is that there would be less deaths occurring than buying them illegally.

Do read posts properly before labelling them in the way you have chosen. Attempting to suggest I take drugs myself is rather a childish retort.

You didn't state that at all. I was commenting on what you did state, as above.

Rather, maybe you should read posts properly...my last comment was an observation based on many other posts, not just yours, not unreasonable I don't think? I said nothing about you, neither did I attempt to suggest that you take drugs.

[smokie36]

If they could have popped along to a chemist and bought cocaine safely certainly they would still be alive.

So in a way I suppose, you are correct.

Why would that be then? It's impossible to overdose on drugs from a chemist, is it?

Another idiotic comment.

Just an observation re some other comments; there seems to be an uncomfortably large number of posters who know so much about illegal drugs and their consumption. It's almost as if some are bragging about their knowledge. Maybe this should be taken into account when reading some of the non-sensical posts that appear on TV.

In fact all I stated was that were people able to buy such drugs without being either cut with other substances or in the certainty of receiving cocaine rather than heroin then the likelihood is that there would be less deaths occurring than buying them illegally.

Do read posts properly before labelling them in the way you have chosen. Attempting to suggest I take drugs myself is rather a childish retort.

You didn't state that at all. I was commenting on what you did state, as above.

Rather, maybe you should read posts properly...my last comment was an observation based on many other posts, not just yours, not unreasonable I don't think? I said nothing about you, neither did I attempt to suggest that you take drugs.

The meaning of my comment was in the context of what I was replying to. Anyway a misunderstanding it seems.

[Bill999]

Hey, Fasteddie, thank you, that was my point exactly, so glad you understoood it. QED?

I seem to have touched a nerve there, eh?

[Semper]

Poor fellas, just trying to have a good time in Bangkok eh and look what happens. Terrible. Just terrible. Low quality Thai drugs are to blame, not the choices of these two individuals who were only trying to party

If they overdosed then it's likely to be very high quality drugs, not what you're are suggesting.

[Semper]

If drugs were decriminalised deaths like these would not rarely happen.

Yes. And if media didn't exist, nobody would know about it.

[Nisa]

Haha, you never let me down for a good laugh. Uhm, DEET does not potentiate by downregulating or inhibiting the cytochrome p450 cyp3A4 enzymes so exactly how does DEET potentiate codeine, Kratom or even alcohol. By precisely what mechanism other than you think Wiki told you so.

I speak in science and basic investigative protocol used in civilized society.

Dudes could have ODed. That was never my point, although that is all you chose to comment on because you cannot refute anything else I say. You just change subject or infuse collateral matters as usual.

Love to hear you theory on how DEET potentiates or downregulates. Few choices 1B1, A411, 450, 34A, 2E1, or any of the others which I cannot think of at the moment. At least I gave you some hints as starting points.

Google away. Too bad you cannot get a diploma for Google skills.

Seems you want everyone to believe you are very knowledgeable but you seem to lack the basic knowledge this is not a thread about DEET or Canadian Sisters dying of DEET poisoning and there are actually other open threads that are about that subject.

[Yunla]

RIP.

Assuming they actually died from substance abuse, and not murder, the nature of the powder is entirely meaningless. If you think its drug X or drug Y, pure or impure, its the same difference. In any case the cause of death was ignorance. If your idea of partying is getting smashed in hotel rooms then you are ignorant, I'm sorry but thats the truth.

People die all the time from alcohol poisoning etc. after heavy drinking etc. Its all the same, its ignorant to abuse your body for kicks, if you get pure drugs or dirty drugs its still ignorant & dying is an occupational hazard of the space cowboy and the bottle bandit. Yes it should all be legal and regulated, but ultimately getting smashed is an ignorant lifestyle & thats the bottom line.

I just been partying today, in Bangkok, by sitting in the sun reading a book and sipping a lemonade. Was a rush. Get high on life, while you still can.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Yunla

[tinfoilhat]

Two young men overdosing at the same time on a drug in powder form is highly highly unlikely. Either (a) they were sold poison, or ( b ) something else entirely happened.

What the police choose to "believe" in Thailand is rarely relevant.

No offence......

Crap.

There have been repeated instances of overly pure drugs killing several fit young men stone dead.

I know of two that died in a village near me ( pop 350 ) in Scotland in one night.

If you don't know what you are talking about then don't comment please.

it would be mighty quiet around here if that were in the forum rules, don't you think?

[thelongshoot]

To all the posters who say "WHY"..... Let me explain. Going out and snorting a couple of lines for millions of people is just as normal to them as it is to you waking up in the morning and having a cup of tea. Its just part of the night out.

I doubt very much that it was coke purchased from the usual suspects hailing from Nigeria around Soi 3 area. If it was from them, there would have been a few dozen ferang deaths around Suk that night as let me tell you, there are bucket loads of people that make a soi 3 dash to nervously buy a gram of coke of one of the 50 or so Nigerian dealers on Soi 3.

My best guess is that they brought what they thought was coke from a local who was winging it, that they met. Again, this is purely a wild guess but some Thai guy may have stumbled upon what he thought was coke, but was actually something entirely different, and punted off to the first couple of ferangs he met.

The chances of two ferangs - two young ferangs - overdosing from coke at the same time is very rare. Thousand to one. You need to take huge amounts of the stuff before you can OD on coke.

A mate of mine went to a Hi-So (relatively speaking) night club in Cambodia casino and got his body guard to buy him some coke. They went to the toilets, took a line each, and spent the next 3 hours in the toilet cubicle unable to move and barley able to speak. It was obviously ketamine. My pal said he genuinely thought he was going to die.

But again, who knows.... There are half a dozen possible reasons at least here.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Scott
formatting

[smedly]

Two young men overdosing at the same time on a drug in powder form is highly highly unlikely. Either (a) they were sold poison, or ( b ) something else entirely happened.

What the police choose to "believe" in Thailand is rarely relevant.

100% agree, this was very very unlikely to be an OD, I doubt very much we will hear the truth about the substance reported found in the room, it is however a warning to others that use drugs here to be careful about what they are ingesting, a recent drug bust in Pattaya the dealer openly admitted that he diluted his product with other substances in order to make more money

[busdweller]

Just to throw a thought into the mix - we had a young Ozzie Guy back home die of a mixture of Cocaine & Viagra the outcome was a heart attack.... This is not implying that this is what happened to these guys. That could only be determined by an autopsy, and bloodworks.. Until that is established one cannot learn the truth...

[tinfoilhat]

To all the posters who say "WHY"..... Let me explain. Going out and snorting a couple of lines for millions of people is just as normal to them as it is to you waking up in the morning and having a cup of tea. Its just part of the night out.

I doubt very much that it was coke purchased from the usual suspects hailing from Nigeria around Soi 3 area. If it was from them them, there would have been a few dozen ferang deaths around Suk that night as let me tell you, there are bucket loads of people that make a soi 3 dash to nervously buy a gram of coke of one of the 50 or so Nigerian dealers on Soi 3.

My best guess is that they brought what they thought was coke from a local who was winging it, that they met. Again, this is purely a wild guess but some Thai guy may have stumbled upon what he thought was coke, but was actualy something entirley different, and punted off to the first couple of ferangs he met.

The chances of two ferangs - two young ferangs - overdosing from coke at the same time is very rare. Thousand to one. You need to take huge amounts of the stuff before you can OD on coke.

A mate of mine went to a Hi-So (relativley speaking) night club in Cambodia casino and got his body guard to buy him some coke. They went to the toilets, took a line each, and spent the next 3 hours in the toilet cubicle unable to move and barley able to speak. It was obviously katamine. My pal said he genuinely thought he was going to die.

But again, who knows.... There are half a dozen possible reasons at least here.

agreed, what many of our posters don't seem to understand is that it snows in Bangkok and has since Thaksin pulled all the Thai dealers off the street.

The nigerians moved in an have never left.

you create a void, and something will fill it, simple physics.

[stewieg]

Why oh why would you want to do this to yourself?? 27 and 31 &lt;deleted&gt;.

Drugs are the scourge of our time.

What a joke this statement is. Drug policy is the scourge of our time.

Alcohol is a drug. Tobacco is a drug. Medication from the pharmacy are drugs. Drugs are clearly not 'the scourge of our time.' It is the way we view drugs, the way we isolate some and discriminate against them, and mostly it is the way we view drug users / addicts - not as sick people who desperately need our help but as criminals who deserve to be punished for their crimes.

I work with people who take drugs. I should say I work in a clinic where people who take drugs come to be treated, the reason of my post was why not just wipe yourself out on alcohol? You'll still be alive in the morning and if the cops see you drinking there's nothing they can do about it. There is never any good reasons for taking drugs, your decision to take drugs will probably hurt anyone who cares about you. Let's wait a bit and see if it was drugs that were involved, on the evidence it would seem so. There are rules about some drugs and other drugs have different rules because they are more dangerous than others.

[CountSaintGermain]

Two young men overdosing at the same time on a drug in powder form is highly highly unlikely. Either (a) they were sold poison, or ( b ) something else entirely happened.

What the police choose to "believe" in Thailand is rarely relevant.

No offence......

Crap.

There have been repeated instances of overly pure drugs killing several fit young men stone dead.

I know of two that died in a village near me ( pop 350 ) in Scotland in one night.

If you don't know what you are talking about then don't comment please.

it would be mighty quiet around here if that were in the forum rules, don't you think?

Ketamine

A surgical anaesthetic withdrawn from the market due to disorientation and violent behaviour that occurred when patients regained consciousness; on the club scene, ketamine is in liquid form or a

white powder

snorted or smoked with marijuana or tobacco products

Pharmacologic effects Dissociative anaesthesia, CNS stimulant, hallucinations, visual distortion, a loss of senses, sense of time, and identity for 30 minutes to 2 hours, delirium, amnesia, impaired motor function, hypertension, depression, recurrent flashbacks,

potentially fatal respiratory problems

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Katamine

PS. Text emboldened for clarification.

PPS. I'm guessing that Khlong Toei refers to Soi Ngam Dupli. If so, it's a shit hole to avoid at all costs.

[hyperdimension]

I work with people who take drugs. I should say I work in a clinic where people who take drugs come to be treated

So this can imply that you never (or rarely) meet people who take drugs who do not need to be treated. You only meet people who have problems, and this narrows your perception of drugs and its users. There are plenty of people who take drugs, both legal and illegal, and both harmful and relatively harmless, who do not need treatment and get by fine in their lives. For example, alcohol and tobacco are used by millions of people around the world; despite both being some of the most harmful drugs to the user and to society, only a small percentage of its users need or seek treatment. The same can be said for users of other drugs. We only ever hear about users who have problems or when there are occurences of newsworthy incidents. We especially rarely hear of the users of illegal drugs who are getting along fine, because they would not want to admit to partaking in criminal activity.

why not just wipe yourself out on alcohol? You'll still be alive in the morning and if the cops see you drinking there's nothing they can do about it.

Buying and taking illegal drugs in Thailand was unwise of them as there are added risks that are specific to Thailand on top of the general risks of taking prohibited drugs. I wrote about this in another thread:

In Thailand however, there is a large flow of tourists coming in and out who want to have a good time whilst visiting the country. Since they are only going to stay temporarily, there is no point for drug dealers to try to keep them as regular customers. So this can lead to more incidence of scams or lack of concern as dealers try to snatch whatever money they can from tourists who are passing through. Legalization of illegal drugs would eliminate this as well as all other criminal drug activity, and users would be able to purchase drugs knowing that they are getting exactly what they asked for.

So it may be true that if they had simply consumed alcohol then they'd still be alive. However alcohol itself is not a very enjoyable drug compared to other drugs; those who have never tried intensely euphoria-inducing drugs may not understand. People will want to take what makes them feel good, and they chose cocaine over alcohol. If they actually got and consumed real cocaine then they may not have died either. It seems that they had put too much trust in the illegal drug dealers of Thailand. The repressive drug laws are ultimately to blame.

Edited October 27, 2012 by hyperdimension

[hyperdimension]

There is never any good reasons for taking drugs

Try telling that to the millions who use alcohol and tobacco such as Christians who drink "the blood of Christ"; the millions who drink coffee every morning; those who take cannabis to treat multiple sclerosis; and those who take legal narcotics for pain treatment.

your decision to take drugs will probably hurt anyone who cares about you.

Different drugs cause different levels of harm to others. Some are relatively harmless, such as cannabis or MDMA. See these scientific studies comparing the levels of harm of different drugs:

Drug harms in the UK: a multicriteria decision analysis (The PDF is available here: http://www.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar/~mmiller/espanol/Variedades,%20politica/drogas_Journal.pdf)

Quantifying the RR of harm to self and others from substance misuse: results from a survey of clinical experts across Scotland

Both studies show alcohol, which you suggest these guys should have "wiped themselves out on", to be quite harmful. For scientific details of the health effects of alcohol here is an excellent in-depth 516-page report: 10th Special Report to the U.S. Congress on Alcohol and Health HIGHLIGHTS FROM CURRENT RESEARCH June 2000

[maidu]

Why oh why would you want to do this to yourself?? 27 and 31 &lt;deleted&gt;.

Drugs are the scourge of our time.

What a joke this statement is. Drug policy is the scourge of our time.

Alcohol is a drug. Tobacco is a drug. Medication from the pharmacy are drugs. Drugs are clearly not 'the scourge of our time.' It is the way we view drugs, the way we isolate some and discriminate against them, and mostly it is the way we view drug users / addicts - not as sick people who desperately need our help but as criminals who deserve to be punished for their crimes.

No one ever burgled my house in the UK for beer or fag money.

are you sure about that?

i would think that beer and fags were pretty high up on the list of things bought with your average burglar's ill gotten gains

The Aussie woman who was stabbed in the heart and died, in Phuket, a few months ago, was killed for beer money.

[maidu]

Pharmaceuticals kill and harm more people each year than illegal drugs.

The alcohol cartel is very successful at making all other recreational drugs illegal. There is only one legal recreational drug: Alcohol, and it's also the favored drug of the people who make the ridiculous laws outlawying all other drugs. Chalerm is prime example.

Recreational drugs can be bad, but making them illegal only exacerbates their problems. Making them legal, enables counseling for druggies, taxing, quality-control, clean needles, lower prices, and debilitates the drug barons. Plus dozens of Thai women could get on with their lives, instead of wasting away in prisons in HK, and all over SE Asia - because they made a stupid mistake.

[Fozfromoz]

I work with people who take drugs. I should say I work in a clinic where people who take drugs come to be treated

So this can imply that you never (or rarely) meet people who take drugs who do not need to be treated. You only meet people who have problems, and this narrows your perception of drugs and its users. There are plenty of people who take drugs, both legal and illegal, and both harmful and relatively harmless, who do not need treatment and get by fine in their lives. For example, alcohol and tobacco are used by millions of people around the world; despite both being some of the most harmful drugs to the user and to society, only a small percentage of its users need or seek treatment. The same can be said for users of other drugs. We only ever hear about users who have problems or when there are occurences of newsworthy incidents. We especially rarely hear of the users of illegal drugs who are getting along fine, because they would not want to admit to partaking in criminal activity.

why not just wipe yourself out on alcohol? You'll still be alive in the morning and if the cops see you drinking there's nothing they can do about it.

Buying and taking illegal drugs in Thailand was unwise of them as there are added risks that are specific to Thailand on top of the general risks of taking prohibited drugs. I wrote about this in another thread:

In Thailand however, there is a large flow of tourists coming in and out who want to have a good time whilst visiting the country. Since they are only going to stay temporarily, there is no point for drug dealers to try to keep them as regular customers. So this can lead to more incidence of scams or lack of concern as dealers try to snatch whatever money they can from tourists who are passing through. Legalization of illegal drugs would eliminate this as well as all other criminal drug activity, and users would be able to purchase drugs knowing that they are getting exactly what they asked for.

So it may be true that if they had simply consumed alcohol then they'd still be alive. However alcohol itself is not a very enjoyable drug compared to other drugs; those who have never tried intensely euphoria-inducing drugs may not understand. People will want to take what makes them feel good, and they chose cocaine over alcohol. If they actually got and consumed real cocaine then they may not have died either. It seems that they had put too much trust in the illegal drug dealers of Thailand. The repressive drug laws are ultimately to blame.

I would just like to say, personally I don't agree with everything you say, but I admire the way that you have put forward your points. Some may have merit.

I am certainly no subject matter expert, but I can't see, for those that advocate decriminalising/ regulating these what I call, hard drugs, that it would solve all,of the problems, as there will still be "vendors" outside of the system, selling whatever crap they do, and it would still have a market, because it would be cheaper.

I am thinking about the earlier post about the 2 blokes that went out to a club to have a good time, ended up on the shithouse floor for 3 hours.

Been that way myself, with too much to drink, but the chances of surviving the night are much greater.

[tinfoilhat]

Two young men overdosing at the same time on a drug in powder form is highly highly unlikely. Either (a) they were sold poison, or ( b ) something else entirely happened.

What the police choose to "believe" in Thailand is rarely relevant.

No offence......

Crap.

There have been repeated instances of overly pure drugs killing several fit young men stone dead.

I know of two that died in a village near me ( pop 350 ) in Scotland in one night.

If you don't know what you are talking about then don't comment please.

it would be mighty quiet around here if that were in the forum rules, don't you think?

Ketamine

A surgical anaesthetic withdrawn from the market due to disorientation and violent behaviour that occurred when patients regained consciousness; on the club scene, ketamine is in liquid form or a

white powder

snorted or smoked with marijuana or tobacco products

Pharmacologic effects Dissociative anaesthesia, CNS stimulant, hallucinations, visual distortion, a loss of senses, sense of time, and identity for 30 minutes to 2 hours, delirium, amnesia, impaired motor function, hypertension, depression, recurrent flashbacks,

potentially fatal respiratory problems

http://medical-dicti...ry.com/Katamine

PS. Text emboldened for clarification.

PPS. I'm guessing that Khlong Toei refers to Soi Ngam Dupli. If so, it's a shit hole to avoid at all costs.

This post is a prime example of not having a clue.

First of Ngam dupli is not in Klong Toei

Secondly, The news reports clearly say it was the Park Plaza on Sukhumvit Soi 16, which is in Klong Toey

Third, Klong toey is huge district which includes lower sukhumvit on the even side as well as the docks and notorious slum.

Fourth, why ketamine, pretty much every one of the drugs it could have been have negative respiratory effects if taken to overdose.

This thread has been overrun by speculation from people who seem to know as little about drugs as they do about the city.

The comments have become increasingly laughable

[hyperdimension]

So it may be true that if they had simply consumed alcohol then they'd still be alive.

I should add to my statement above: it depends on how much they consume. Think about Amy Winehouse and the many others who have died from alcohol poisoning. See List of drug-related deaths and try to count how many times alcohol or ethanol occurs in the list.

It is actually much easier to overdose on alcohol than cocaine, based on the ratio of "lethal dose" to "effective dose" of a drug. From the article Not All Drugs Are Created Equal:

For alcohol, the safety margin is 10 (330 divided by 33 equals 10). In other words, it takes 10 times as much alcohol to kill you as it does to give you a buzz.

the safety margin of recreational substances as normally used is: 6 for heroin; 10 for alcohol; 15 for cocaine; 16 for MDMA; 20 for codeine; and 1,000 for LSD or marijuana

So based on this, maybe stewieg's suggestion that these guys should have instead "wiped themselves out on" alcohol was technically a bad one as the likelihood of dying would have been greater than if they had taken real cocaine.

Edited October 27, 2012 by hyperdimension

[hyperdimension]

I am certainly no subject matter expert, but I can't see, for those that advocate decriminalising/ regulating these what I call, hard drugs, that it would solve all,of the problems, as there will still be "vendors" outside of the system, selling whatever crap they do, and it would still have a market, because it would be cheaper.

Why do you think that it would be cheaper on the blackmarket? Try to use alcohol as an example.

I am thinking about the earlier post about the 2 blokes that went out to a club to have a good time, ended up on the shithouse floor for 3 hours.

Been that way myself, with too much to drink, but the chances of surviving the night are much greater.

Yes, but only because it is dangerous to take illegal drugs from the blackmarket. If you could buy other recreational drugs legally from shops then many of them would be less harmful and less likely to kill you due to overdose than alcohol. Edited October 27, 2012 by hyperdimension

[smokie36]

Ketamine

A surgical anaesthetic withdrawn from the market due to disorientation and violent behaviour that occurred when patients regained consciousness

Just for the purposes of clarity I will point out that Ketamine has not been withdrawn from use in hospitals.

It is used primarily in sedating the elderly during traumatic surgery nowadays and has value as such a treatment. The side effects are well known and more pronounced in younger patients.

It is indeed a dangerous substance when abused, one of my colleagues became addicted to it a few years ago. Very sad indeed.

[Fozfromoz]

I am certainly no subject matter expert, but I can't see, for those that advocate decriminalising/ regulating these what I call, hard drugs, that it would solve all,of the problems, as there will still be "vendors" outside of the system, selling whatever crap they do, and it would still have a market, because it would be cheaper.

Why do you think that it would be cheaper on the blackmarket? Try to use alcohol as an example.

I am thinking about the earlier post about the 2 blokes that went out to a club to have a good time, ended up on the shithouse floor for 3 hours.

Been that way myself, with too much to drink, but the chances of surviving the night are much greater.

Yes, but only because it is dangerous to take illegal drugs from the blackmarket. If you could buy other recreational drugs legally from shops then many of them would be less harmful and less likely to kill you due to overdose than alcohol.

mate. I really don't know but if I was in the supply chain selling drugs at X, and now I find out that consumers, end users can now buy it somewhere else regulated, with a nice government seal of approval on the packet, I am either going to have to sell something else, or to move it, compete. I don't really think that people will just go and open a fruit and veg. They will try and make money, albeit with a smaller margin, doing something they know. Then to try and maintain a margin, they would still be tempted to do whatever, to make it go further.

Bloke walks into a grog shop. Only has a certain amount in his pocket. If he can't afford a bottle of courviosier, he will buy a bottle of rocket fuel, to achieve the same result.

On your second point, perhaps they can regulate it, I don't know, but alcohol has the % on the side, so you know that a bottle of liquor has more bang than a can of Chang.

[Colabamumbai]

In the 70's a lot of my friends were found dead in their hotel rooms here in the far east due to overdoses of heroin from the triangle, analized by the R.C.M.P. in Canada at a later date to be 96% pure. The cop who had his team on the streets scoring from dealers, to test the quality on the street to see why people were dying stated in court that in his 20 years he had never seen heroin of this quality in Canada.

All related to the deaths of these Canadians here and in Mumbai hotel rooms were due to this purity and he testified in court in Montreal "Mr. ____________ must be at the top of an organization to be able to import this quality uncut."

[Scott]

An oversized chart about drugs has been deleted because it messes up the formatting of the sub-forum. If you can re-size it so that it fits and doesn't cause browser problems, feel free to do so.

The information is interesting.