Canadian, Australian Found Dead In Bangkok Hotel Room

[Scott]

An oversized chart about drugs has been deleted because it messes up the formatting of the sub-forum. If you can re-size it so that it fits and doesn't cause browser problems, feel free to do so.

The information is interesting.

[metisdead]

And a nonsense baiting post has been removed.

[meom]

So based on stewieg's suggestion that these guys should hve nstead "wiped themselves out on" alcohol was technically a bad one as the likelihood of dying would have been greater than if they had taken real cocaine.

That's not really correct because it ignores the ease or difficulty with which a toxic or lethal dose maybe reached.

For example an inexperienced drinker will most likely vomit and fall asleep long before reaching life threatening amounts of alcohol in their blood.

Cocaine/heroin users on the other hand are at much greater risk of death from a misjudged dose due to varying drug purity, tolerance and influence affected judgement.

[ttelise]

Haha, you never let me down for a good laugh. Uhm, DEET does not potentiate by downregulating or inhibiting the cytochrome p450 cyp3A4 enzymes so exactly how does DEET potentiate codeine, Kratom or even alcohol. By precisely what mechanism other than you think Wiki told you so.

I speak in science and basic investigative protocol used in civilized society.

Dudes could have ODed. That was never my point, although that is all you chose to comment on because you cannot refute anything else I say. You just change subject or infuse collateral matters as usual.

Love to hear you theory on how DEET potentiates or downregulates. Few choices 1B1, A411, 450, 34A, 2E1, or any of the others which I cannot think of at the moment. At least I gave you some hints as starting points.

Google away. Too bad you cannot get a diploma for Google skills.

Seems you want everyone to believe you are very knowledgeable but you seem to lack the basic knowledge this is not a thread about DEET or Canadian Sisters dying of DEET poisoning and there are actually other open threads that are about that subject.

Yep. You bash people, say stuff you don't really understand, misquote sources such as Wikipedia which are not even reliable to begin with, refuse to answer when your statements are challenged, delete lead in post and then change the subject and criticize those who challenge you. True Nusa form.

You should start a Wikipedia page for the definition of a Nisa.

[smokie36]

For example an inexperienced drinker will most likely vomit and fall asleep long before reaching life threatening amounts of alcohol in their blood.

In fact the risk of choking on their own vomit is the real danger with alcohol. Paracetamol overdose is a whole different issue......!

[Nisa]

No telling what these two were up to but I doubt they died from a bad batch of dope they bought locally unless we aren't hearing about others who have died. I doubt they snorted heroin thinking it was coke unless they both snorted big lines simultaneously and/or they had never done coke before. As soon as somebody snorted heroin thinking it was coke they would instantly know it was not coke or that something was seriously wrong.

Speculating (guessing) based on the picture it seems they were not simply snorting coke and may have been mixing drugs or trying to enhance the effects of a drug(s). The spoons unless they just happened to be there and are unrelated would likely be used to cook up a drug for shooting, cooking up crack or breaking apart rocks (clumps within the drug). The breaking up using the spoons is very unlikely if it is coke or heroin but wouldn't be if it was crystal. Then you have the pills and what appear to be two cellophane type pouches (likely from the wrapping of a cigarette pack). On pack looks to contain something black (tar heroin?)and the other appear clear or empty (possibly held the powder on the table). Then there is the open knife which could have been used to chop or make lined but not the proper, common or efficient tool to use for coke .. especially when the room key or a credit card would do much better. Of course there is the rolled up bill too which tends to indicates snorting was involved too.

A couple other things not clear in the picture are the spoons appear blackened but not sure if they actually are (could be shadows) as if something had been cooked in them. There is also some kind of booklet or case in the top left that may just be a passport or something similar but it looks like it could be a small case with compartments and some kind of objects in it. There also appears to possibly be another pile of white powder (but more white than the off white powder at the bottom)in between the knife and the spoon. Then above what looks like a black substance in plastic and the booklet thing is some kind of white round tube-ish shaped thing.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Haha, you never let me down for a good laugh. Uhm, DEET does not potentiate by downregulating or inhibiting the cytochrome p450 cyp3A4 enzymes so exactly how does DEET potentiate codeine, Kratom or even alcohol. By precisely what mechanism other than you think Wiki told you so.

I speak in science and basic investigative protocol used in civilized society.

Dudes could have ODed. That was never my point, although that is all you chose to comment on because you cannot refute anything else I say. You just change subject or infuse collateral matters as usual.

Love to hear you theory on how DEET potentiates or downregulates. Few choices 1B1, A411, 450, 34A, 2E1, or any of the others which I cannot think of at the moment. At least I gave you some hints as starting points.

Google away. Too bad you cannot get a diploma for Google skills.

Seems you want everyone to believe you are very knowledgeable but you seem to lack the basic knowledge this is not a thread about DEET or Canadian Sisters dying of DEET poisoning and there are actually other open threads that are about that subject.

Yep. You bash people, say stuff you don't really understand, misquote sources such as Wikipedia which are not even reliable to begin with, refuse to answer when your statements are challenged, delete lead in post and then change the subject and criticize those who challenge you. True Nusa form.

You should start a Wikipedia page for the definition of a Nisa.

If you want to discuss DEET with me then post in the proper thread and I'll be happy to discuss it.

[ttelise]

For example an inexperienced drinker will most likely vomit and fall asleep long before reaching life threatening amounts of alcohol in their blood.

In fact the risk of choking on their own vomit is the real danger with alcohol. Paracetamol overdose is a whole different issue......!

I agree that alcohol is dangerous and widely used because it is legal and freely accessible. I, however, would think that the ratio of people choking on their vomit is exceedingly low in relation to the number of drinks or number of people consuming alcohol.

Heroin OD cam typically result due to drastic differences in purity. Cocaine overdoses are extremely rare and screw citing some Dr. Drewish type statistics saying otherwise. Just ain't the case and no one knows how many people are ingesting cocaine each day to make such an analysis remotely accurate.

As some have indicated, pharmaceuticals are dangerous, but mainly due to the time release mechanisms utilized by bug pharma and FDA to stop abuse. Peopletry to defeat time release and occasionally are a little too successful.

[Nisa]

Heroin OD cam typically result due to drastic differences in purity. Cocaine overdoses are extremely rare and screw citing some Dr. Drewish type statistics saying otherwise. Just ain't the case and no one knows how many people are ingesting cocaine each day to make such an analysis remotely accurate.

Not sure about Thailand but it appears in the US Cocaine Death overdoses, according to the CDC, are far greater than heroin overdoses and apparently not rare.

Number of unintentional drug overdose deaths involving opioid analgesics, cocaine, and heroin — United States, 1999–2007

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6101a3.htm#fig2

Edited October 27, 2012 by Nisa

[softgeorge]

No telling what these two were up to but I doubt they died from a bad batch of dope they bought locally unless we aren't hearing about others who have died. I doubt they snorted heroin thinking it was coke unless they both snorted big lines simultaneously and/or they had never done coke before. As soon as somebody snorted heroin thinking it was coke they would instantly know it was not coke or that something was seriously wrong.

Speculating (guessing) based on the picture it seems they were not simply snorting coke and may have been mixing drugs or trying to enhance the effects of a drug(s). The spoons unless they just happened to be there and are unrelated would likely be used to cook up a drug for shooting, cooking up crack or breaking apart rocks (clumps within the drug). The breaking up using the spoons is very unlikely if it is coke or heroin but wouldn't be if it was crystal. Then you have the pills and what appear to be two cellophane type pouches (likely from the wrapping of a cigarette pack). On pack looks to contain something black (tar heroin?)and the other appear clear or empty (possibly held the powder on the table). Then there is the open knife which could have been used to chop or make lined but not the proper, common or efficient tool to use for coke .. especially when the room key or a credit card would do much better. Of course there is the rolled up bill too which tends to indicates snorting was involved too.

A couple other things not clear in the picture are the spoons appear blackened but not sure if they actually are (could be shadows) as if something had been cooked in them. There is also some kind of booklet or case in the top left that may just be a passport or something similar but it looks like it could be a small case with compartments and some kind of objects in it. There also appears to possibly be another pile of white powder (but more white than the off white powder at the bottom)in between the knife and the spoon. Then above what looks like a black substance in plastic and the booklet thing is some kind of white round tube-ish shaped thing.

Going by that pic it looks like they were having quite a party, snorting, popping pills downing alcohol. Is this definately a picture of thier room or just one the thai media downloaded that has nothing to do with the story. They tend to do that.

Edited October 27, 2012 by softgeorge

[tinfoilhat]

No telling what these two were up to but I doubt they died from a bad batch of dope they bought locally unless we aren't hearing about others who have died. I doubt they snorted heroin thinking it was coke unless they both snorted big lines simultaneously and/or they had never done coke before. As soon as somebody snorted heroin thinking it was coke they would instantly know it was not coke or that something was seriously wrong.

Speculating (guessing) based on the picture it seems they were not simply snorting coke and may have been mixing drugs or trying to enhance the effects of a drug(s). The spoons unless they just happened to be there and are unrelated would likely be used to cook up a drug for shooting, cooking up crack or breaking apart rocks (clumps within the drug). The breaking up using the spoons is very unlikely if it is coke or heroin but wouldn't be if it was crystal. Then you have the pills and what appear to be two cellophane type pouches (likely from the wrapping of a cigarette pack). On pack looks to contain something black (tar heroin?)and the other appear clear or empty (possibly held the powder on the table). Then there is the open knife which could have been used to chop or make lined but not the proper, common or efficient tool to use for coke .. especially when the room key or a credit card would do much better. Of course there is the rolled up bill too which tends to indicates snorting was involved too.

A couple other things not clear in the picture are the spoons appear blackened but not sure if they actually are (could be shadows) as if something had been cooked in them. There is also some kind of booklet or case in the top left that may just be a passport or something similar but it looks like it could be a small case with compartments and some kind of objects in it. There also appears to possibly be another pile of white powder (but more white than the off white powder at the bottom)in between the knife and the spoon. Then above what looks like a black substance in plastic and the booklet thing is some kind of white round tube-ish shaped thing.

oh come on.

blackened spoons? is the knife (a wine opener actually) blackened too?

you are reaching for straws and the only reason i can think of why is that you simply dont have enough to do.

give it a rest mate.

[ttelise]

Heroin OD cam typically result due to drastic differences in purity. Cocaine overdoses are extremely rare and screw citing some Dr. Drewish type statistics saying otherwise. Just ain't the case and no one knows how many people are ingesting cocaine each day to make such an analysis remotely accurate.

Not sure about Thailand but it appears in the US Cocaine Death overdoses, according to the CDC, are far greater than heroin overdoses and apparently not rare.

Number of unintentional drug overdose deaths involving opioid analgesics, cocaine, and heroin — United States, 1999–2007

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6101a3.htm#fig2

4,000 deaths out of 5.3 million users in US is pretty rare occurrence statistically. Probably slot more casual users than that. How many heroin users in US? I am betting 200,000 maybe. Not opiate, just heroine as a lot of Americans on opiate pain medications. So 2,000 heroin deaths out of 200,000 users would be a lot more frequent deaths.

That would be about 50,000 deaths is heroine used by same number as those that use some form of cocaine.

[Nisa]

Heroin OD cam typically result due to drastic differences in purity. Cocaine overdoses are extremely rare and screw citing some Dr. Drewish type statistics saying otherwise. Just ain't the case and no one knows how many people are ingesting cocaine each day to make such an analysis remotely accurate.

Not sure about Thailand but it appears in the US Cocaine Death overdoses, according to the CDC, are far greater than heroin overdoses and apparently not rare.

Number of unintentional drug overdose deaths involving opioid analgesics, cocaine, and heroin — United States, 1999–2007

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6101a3.htm#fig2

4,000 deaths out of 5.3 million users in US is pretty rare occurrence statistically. Probably slot more casual users than that. How many heroin users in US? I am betting 200,000 maybe. Not opiate, just heroine as a lot of Americans on opiate pain medications. So 2,000 heroin deaths out of 200,000 users would be a lot more frequent deaths.

That would be about 50,000 deaths is heroine used by same number as those that use some form of cocaine.

I was responding to your comment that "Cocaine overdoses are extremely" -- clearly it is not but I too doubt they died from a straight cocaine overdose. As for percentage of users to overdoses and comparing that percentage to heroin users, that is a different subject.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Going by that pic it looks like they were having quite a party, snorting, popping pills downing alcohol. Is this definately a picture of thier room or just one the thai media downloaded that has nothing to do with the story. They tend to do that.

Agree that it appears they may have been down for some serious reality altering. Ans yes, it is from the actual room. One of the news links in the thread (that contained this photo) also has a picture of the bodies (pixelated) in the room and you can see the counter.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

oh come on.

blackened spoons? is the knife (a wine opener actually) blackened too?

you are reaching for straws and the only reason i can think of why is that you simply dont have enough to do.

give it a rest mate.

If you are not into playing internet detective nobody is forcing you to and certainly nobody is forcing you to to use your time to both read and respond to posts that you feel were written because somebody had nothing else to do.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Nisa

[Scully]

oh come on.

blackened spoons? is the knife (a wine opener actually) blackened too?

you are reaching for straws and the only reason i can think of why is that you simply dont have enough to do.

give it a rest mate.

If you are not into playing internet detective nobody is forcing you to and certainly nobody is forcing you to to use your time to both read and respond to posts that you feel were written because somebody had nothing else to do.

Carry on Nisa

I find it quite amusing how you are making a fool of yourself with your theories.

Keep it up its some of your best work

[Nisa]

oh come on.

blackened spoons? is the knife (a wine opener actually) blackened too?

you are reaching for straws and the only reason i can think of why is that you simply dont have enough to do.

give it a rest mate.

If you are not into playing internet detective nobody is forcing you to and certainly nobody is forcing you to to use your time to both read and respond to posts that you feel were written because somebody had nothing else to do.

Carry on Nisa

I find it quite amusing how you are making a fool of yourself with your theories.

Keep it up its some of your best work

Glad you enjoy the post(s) but not sure what theories you are referring unless you consider pointing out that there is a lot we don't know is a theory.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Nisa

[theslime]

Why oh why would you want to do this to yourself?? 27 and 31 <deleted>.

Drugs are the scourge of our time.

What a joke this statement is. Drug policy is the scourge of our time.

Alcohol is a drug. Tobacco is a drug. Medication from the pharmacy are drugs. Drugs are clearly not 'the scourge of our time.' It is the way we view drugs, the way we isolate some and discriminate against them, and mostly it is the way we view drug users / addicts - not as sick people who desperately need our help but as criminals who deserve to be punished for their crimes.

No one ever burgled my house in the UK for beer or fag money.

The Crystal Ball still working, eh.

[Bill999]

In the 70's a lot of my friends were found dead in their hotel rooms here in the far east due to overdoses of heroin from the triangle, analized by the R.C.M.P. in Canada at a later date to be 96% pure. The cop who had his team on the streets scoring from dealers, to test the quality on the street to see why people were dying stated in court that in his 20 years he had never seen heroin of this quality in Canada.

All related to the deaths of these Canadians here and in Mumbai hotel rooms were due to this purity and he testified in court in Montreal "Mr. ____________ must be at the top of an organization to be able to import this quality uncut."

What? That's a very serious allegation to make.

[pacovl46]

Two young men overdosing at the same time on a drug in powder form is highly highly unlikely. Either (a) they were sold poison, or ( b ) something else entirely happened.

What the police choose to "believe" in Thailand is rarely relevant.

Two people overdosing on a powder is very much possible if the powder was heroin and of much better quality than they were used to. A bit too much and you're gone without even realizing it.

[pacovl46]

Two young men overdosing at the same time on a drug in powder form is highly highly unlikely. Either (a) they were sold poison, or ( b ) something else entirely happened.

What the police choose to "believe" in Thailand is rarely relevant.

Maybe....

White powder in Thailand will either be:

- Cocaine

- Ketamine

- MDMA

- Heroin

Most likely it'll be cocaine. ODs are pretty rare.

With Heroin, that's a lot more likely to kill 2 users, esp if it's a lot stronger than they are used to.

There are a lot of other white powders around, but I agree with you. Mostly like Coke and ODs on Coke are very rare. Two ODs of fit young men is too unlikely to be considered a possibility ...

If it was heroin, that's a different matter. But as far as I know, people inject heroin or smoke it, not snort it. There's no mention of "drug paraphernelia" at the scene ....

If the "white powder" comes back as Coke, I wouldn't believe in 1000 years they both OD'd on it. I trust the police will be analyzing the powder as well. Be interesting to know if their "valuables" (passport, credit cards etc) were still in the room.

It's very common to snort heroin because you neither need a lighter nor aluminum foil. You just lay it out ands snort it. And usually people who shoot up have been on heroin for quite some time and it simply became to expensive to snort or smoke it.

[pacovl46]

< off topic comments removed >

As for the dead tourists, it is impossible to speculate as to what the powder was, though one would think coke would be fairly easy to identify.

lousy way to die

It depends on how they went out. If it was heroin and they had a bit too much they got simply really high and then they're respiratory system slowed more and more down and then they died in their "sleep" without them even realizing it. That's probably the best way to go.

[pacovl46]

RIP and condolences to family and friends, we won’t jump to any conclusions over the cause of the young men’s sad deaths, only white powder stuff found in their room and no one knows what it is doesn’t mean a thing in Thailand anyone could have planted it in the room if they had been snorting / taking anything I am sure they would have finished it off and not left it lying around in the room. For people to find.

"I am sure they would have finished it off and not left it lying around in the room. For people to find."

That statement is ridiculous man!!! Next time think first before you post something!!!

[hyperdimension]

It is actually much easier to overdose on alcohol than cocaine, based on the ratio of "lethal dose" to "effective dose" of a drug. From the article Not All Drugs Are Created Equal:

Here's a visual representation of the "safety margin" ratio (horizontal axis), but the value is inverted, i.e. active dose to lethal dose instead of lethal dose divided by active dose:

So from this list of drugs, heroin is the easiest to die from an overdose, and alcohol comes in second. Morphine and cocaine look like equal third.

Edited October 28, 2012 by hyperdimension

[animatic]

Junkies, in strange lands expect to find junk of greatly varying quality,

and test small amounts before hand, only the utterly daft would assume

that the quality is the same as home. I lean toward the theory that they

were ripped off and the bad product killed them, so they couldn't say

they were ripped off. Moralists are not found in that business in Thailand.

[metisdead]

Off topic generalization posts and replies have been removed.

[Colabamumbai]

One would hafto have put some on the tong first to see if the tong goes cold num ( cocaine ),

One only needs a crum of heroine to get high on ,especialy when injecting white heroine .

One line of white heroine will kill you for shore.

Especialy with alcohol.

Sounds like the lack of education in this stuff has killed them,

or some dodgee dealer.

"One line of white heroin will kill you for sure"

Obviously you have never used it.

[sirchai]

oh come on.

blackened spoons? is the knife (a wine opener actually) blackened too?

you are reaching for straws and the only reason i can think of why is that you simply dont have enough to do.

give it a rest mate.

If you are not into playing internet detective nobody is forcing you to and certainly nobody is forcing you to to use your time to both read and respond to posts that you feel were written because somebody had nothing else to do.

Carry on Nisa

I find it quite amusing how you are making a fool of yourself with your theories.

Keep it up its some of your best work

Nisa should at least get the Pulitzer price. Not sure for what.---

Edited October 28, 2012 by sirchai

[sirchai]

One would hafto have put some on the tong first to see if the tong goes cold num ( cocaine ),

One only needs a crum of heroine to get high on ,especialy when injecting white heroine .

One line of white heroine will kill you for shore.

Especialy with alcohol.

Sounds like the lack of education in this stuff has killed them,

or some dodgee dealer.

"One line of white heroin will kill you for sure"

Obviously you have never used it.

" Depends on how big the ONE line of heroin is."

Edited October 28, 2012 by sirchai

[Colabamumbai]

Rolled up bank note indicates they were snorting it... so at the very least they thought it was coke i guess... what are the pink pills next to it do you reckon? The powder has the colour of babymilk

Cut with something as you say it is pink....Today the real stuff, the pure from the factories from the triangle comes compressed in block form, years ago it was powder and took up a large space. But in Bkk it will be crushed down and mixed with anyones guess. Years ago the manufacturers had their stamp on the 350 gram bags, Double Globe Brand, REd Lion Brand, 3 bags to a kilo, 350 grams x 3, the three bags weighed 50 grams total. 1050 grams-50 and you had your 1,000 gram kilo. Pure 96 to 99%. Been there done that.