Adopting My Thai Niece - The Process?

[natnatnatnat]

Hello Room

I am a Thai national and naturalized as a British citizen where I reside. I wish to adopt my Thai niece and bring her to the UK. Her mother is wayward and is unable to manage her personal and family life to include adequate care for her child.

Does anyone, or your partners, have experience of this and can you suggest what kind of process I must follow, in the UK, to adopt her? The situation is desperate and I am keen to do this quickly. I am in a position to pay for lawyers and would welcome any referrals etc to a British Lawyer. I prefer to not deal with Thai lawyers if possible and to have minimal contact with Thai authorities.

The tough situation is this - my family is quite well regarded in Bangkok and my sisters ways are of embarrassment to the family and my parents are too old to manage the child. I am the oldest sister and none of my siblings wish to welcome her into their families.

I would appreciate any help you may have to offer on how you did it. Yes, a Lawyer can advise (when I find one) but real experience is, as always, premium.

Thank you

Nat

[The Smithy]

I think the first question you will have to ask is can you get the child out of Thailand and back to the UK?

Next,will the Mother give you permission to do so?

If the answer to both these questions are 'yes',then you can start looking at the adoption process in the UK.Do you hold a current UK passport?

I would think that Barnado's would probably be the best place to start,I'm sure that you can email or call them with any questions you might have and they will keep it all confidential.I imagine they will probably help you in any way that they can :

http://www.barnardos.org.uk/fosteringandadoption/adoption.htm?gclid=CNOF5raln7MCFc8c6wodNTgAzQ

Good luck,I'm adopted and couldn't wish for a better family than I have now back in the UK!

[DrTuner]

The Thailand end is easier as you are a relative, but the UK part might be tricky. Try contacting British embassy in Bangkok, they should have the relevant info. For google, input Thailand adoption Hague as keywords.

[natnatnatnat]

Not sure how to go about point one.

Point two, yes, its her idea.

Yes, I have a UK passport and will contact the people you state.

Thanks and I am glad you were a happy child, I hope she can be too.

[Beetlejuice]

What I think you need to do, is first officially adopt the child in Thailand, then legally your niece becomes your assumed daughter. Sorry, but there is no way that you can avoid dealing with the Thai authorities in this case. During the adoption process, the child`s parent’s or some authority may be required to make a sworn statement as to the reasons why they the parent`s are not capable of caring for the child anymore and why they believe it is in the child’s best interests to be brought up by you. I would avoid mentioning any financial problems the parent`s may have as a reason for giving the child up. Otherwise the British authorities will view the application as another economic refugee wanting to settle into the UK from a third world country.

You would require copies of these statements certified by a lawyer and probably require certifying from the Thai foreign affairs office and the British Embassy in Bangkok.This would prove that you have the child’s parent’s approval with good reasons for you to become her full legal guardian. Of course whatever statements the parent`s make, will need to be backed up by an expert report, such as a doctor in the case of a parent suffering from health, mental or drug related problems.

After that process, then you can apply to the FCO for the child to be brought over to the UK as your daughter, either from the British embassy in Bangkok or via the Home Office at Croydon in London.

May I ask, what is your age, are you married to a British national, do you have any children of your own, do you have adequate accommodation for you and the child, are you working full time in the UK, do you earn enough to be able to support yourself and the child and not claiming or intend to claim any benefits? These are the same questions the British authorities will ask. Any of these can affect the decision of the Home office whether or not to allow the child to settle in the UK.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[BigJohnnyBKK]

It will in any case not be a quick process, and much more likely to succeed if the child is in your care (living under your roof) during the process and ideally for a long time before.

Otherwise this would be a quick and easy loophole that people could exploit for bringing cheap labor and sex partners in, which I'm sure hundreds per year try to do.

[LucidLucifer]

Due to it being a family adoption, you will need to prove to the UK authorities that the child is in danger of, or has been subjected to, some form of abuse or neglect. This will need to be in the form of official reports from the police and social services etc. You will also need to prove that there is no other relative in Thailand capable of caring for the child.

Without all these in place, your chances are as good as zero in the first instance of application, but you do stand a better chance on appeal. The appeal will be heard by an immigration judge, and they are more likely to be lenient if you present a compelling case.

All the above info I know to be correct, as it was advised by a specialist intercountry adoption lawyer based in London.

The rules are there in place to stop adoptions of children by family members purely on economic grounds i.e. to give them a better life and future. It is harsh and unfair in many ways, but the rules are there for a reason.

Without wanting to sound too pessimistic, as I do sympathise with your situation, I don't think you've got much of a chance unless you can meet the criteria as I outlined in my first paragraph.

In regards to you doing the adoption in Thailand first, as you are married to a foreigner, they would also need to adopt the child, and to do that they need to show they are living in Thailand and need to produce a valid non-immigrant O or B visa, and in the case of a B visa, a valid work permit. They will also need to sign an affidavit testifying that it is not their intention to remove the child from Thailand.

I am happy to stand corrected on my next point, but I think you may then find that the Thai adoption is not accepted by the UK authorities as Thailand hasn't ratified the Hague convention on overseas adoptions.

All that said, good luck to you

[7by7]

The topic UK Settlement Visa For Niece will show you that it can be done, but is a lengthy process. Also the case in that topic was a de facto adoption which had taken place whilst the British uncle and Thai aunt were still living in Thailand and the child had been living with them for some time; different to your situation.

SET7.18 How do adopted children qualify for settlement? is the guidance issued to UK Entry Clearance officers on deciding settlement visa applications from adopted children; you will see that it is a complex process even if the child has been adopted, legally or de facto, in their own country; as Steady and his wife discovered.

I draw your attention particularly to

In the case of UK-based adopters hoping to adopt a child which has been given or 'gifted' to them by relatives abroad, there is very little chance of them being able to bring the child into the UK. The UK's international obligations prevent any acceptance of such practices. Even if a foreign adoption has been completed, the requirements of the Immigration Rules will prevent an entry clearance being issued to such a child.

But, despite what the above paragraph says, if you read further you will see that there may be a chance if you legally adopt the child in Thailand.

You may not want to deal with Thai lawyers or the Thai authorities, one wonders why not, but you are going to have to if you really want to proceed with this.

I suggest that you also speak to a family lawyer in the UK who specialises in this area.

But first, have a thorough read of Intercountry adoption and the links from there.

[natnatnatnat]

You may not want to deal with Thai lawyers or the Thai authorities, one wonders why not,

7by7 I assume one has never lived in Thailand and are thus unaware of how public bodies in Thailand operate. I would also assume you are not fluent in Thai too to fully understand and grasp the nuances of the culture and havent had much contact with the archaic Thai legal system, otherwise, you would not write such a nieve question.

Edited October 28, 2012 by natnatnatnat

[natnatnatnat]

Due to it being a family adoption, you will need to prove to the UK authorities that the child is in danger of, or has been subjected to, some form of abuse or neglect. This will need to be in the form of official reports from the police and social services etc. You will also need to prove that there is no other relative in Thailand capable of caring for the child.

Without all these in place, your chances are as good as zero in the first instance of application, but you do stand a better chance on appeal. The appeal will be heard by an immigration judge, and they are more likely to be lenient if you present a compelling case.

All the above info I know to be correct, as it was advised by a specialist intercountry adoption lawyer based in London.

The rules are there in place to stop adoptions of children by family members purely on economic grounds i.e. to give them a better life and future. It is harsh and unfair in many ways, but the rules are there for a reason.

Without wanting to sound too pessimistic, as I do sympathise with your situation, I don't think you've got much of a chance unless you can meet the criteria as I outlined in my first paragraph.

In regards to you doing the adoption in Thailand first, as you are married to a foreigner, they would also need to adopt the child, and to do that they need to show they are living in Thailand and need to produce a valid non-immigrant O or B visa, and in the case of a B visa, a valid work permit. They will also need to sign an affidavit testifying that it is not their intention to remove the child from Thailand.

I am happy to stand corrected on my next point, but I think you may then find that the Thai adoption is not accepted by the UK authorities as Thailand hasn't ratified the Hague convention on overseas adoptions.

All that said, good luck to you

Excellent post, thank you for taking the time. (minus the rice paddy hat)

I have, today, retained the services of a well regarded family lawyer.

This is a very embarassing situation as my family is Thailand is particularly afluent yeh none wish to adopt or even take care of the child given the father. My sister is wayward and has been disowned by family. The child is now with a family friend (my friend)

Edited October 28, 2012 by natnatnatnat

[7by7]

You may not want to deal with Thai lawyers or the Thai authorities, one wonders why not,

7by7 I assume one has never lived in Thailand and are thus unaware of how public bodies in Thailand operate. I would also assume you are not fluent in Thai too to fully understand and grasp the nuances of the culture and havent had much contact with the archaic Thai legal system, otherwise, you would not write such a nieve question.

And you obviously have no idea about the UK immigration law as it pertains to children and adoption.

I have a limited knowledge, not as much as others here I admit, and can assure you that any hope you have of obtaining a UK settlement visa for your niece is dependent on you involving both the UK and the Thai authorities as you will need a legal adoption. De facto adoption is out of the question as you live in the UK and she lives in Thailand.

As my advice is unwelcome, I wont bother in future.

Edited October 28, 2012 by 7by7

[natnatnatnat]

What I think you need to do, is first officially adopt the child in Thailand, then legally your niece becomes your assumed daughter. Sorry, but there is no way that you can avoid dealing with the Thai authorities in this case. During the adoption process, the child`s parent’s or some authority may be required to make a sworn statement as to the reasons why they the parent`s are not capable of caring for the child anymore and why they believe it is in the child’s best interests to be brought up by you. I would avoid mentioning any financial problems the parent`s may have as a reason for giving the child up. Otherwise the British authorities will view the application as another economic refugee wanting to settle into the UK from a third world country.

You would require copies of these statements certified by a lawyer and probably require certifying from the Thai foreign affairs office and the British Embassy in Bangkok.This would prove that you have the child’s parent’s approval with good reasons for you to become her full legal guardian. Of course whatever statements the parent`s make, will need to be backed up by an expert report, such as a doctor in the case of a parent suffering from health, mental or drug related problems.

After that process, then you can apply to the FCO for the child to be brought over to the UK as your daughter, either from the British embassy in Bangkok or via the Home Office at Croydon in London.

May I ask, what is your age, are you married to a British national, do you have any children of your own, do you have adequate accommodation for you and the child, are you working full time in the UK, do you earn enough to be able to support yourself and the child and not claiming or intend to claim any benefits? These are the same questions the British authorities will ask. Any of these can affect the decision of the Home office whether or not to allow the child to settle in the UK.

Another very good post, thank you.

There are drug issues, my sister is a confirmed cocaine addict. I am 42 I am married to a British national for over 20 years and I do not have children. I own property in the UK as does my husband. I own much land and property in Thailand. We are financially secure as a marriage and I am in my own right.

Thank you

[natnatnatnat]

And you obviously have no idea about the UK legal system and immigration law as it pertains to children and adoption.

Clearly, hence my quetions above.

[craigt3365]

I think this might be better off over in the Visa and Migration to Other Countries forum. OK?

Topic Moved.

[David48]

Ok ok ... I'll turn the volume down and reduce that annoying echo.

To the OP, are you committed enough for you and your partner to return to the Thailand and adopt your niece officially in Thailand and then return back to the UK.

Given the advice above ... it maybe the only way possible.

I presume that you return/visit back to Thailand on a regular basis?

[natnatnatnat]

Ok ok ... I'll turn the volume down and reduce that annoying echo.

To the OP, are you committed enough for you and your partner to return to the Thailand and adopt your niece officially in Thailand and then return back to the UK.

Given the advice above ... it maybe the only way possible.

I presume that you return/visit back to Thailand on a regular basis?

Are we committed enough to give up our lives/jobs/family in the UK and return to Thailand for potentially years? Yes, if needs be - she is a little life and needs help. Do we want to? No, of course not. The hope is that it is avoidable and this will not become visible until the situation is assessed from a legal stance point.

Your presumption is correct, where are you taking this?