Non-B Visa For Teacher (Recap)

[waters]

Hi All,

At some point in the next week or two I will need to leave Thailand in order to apply for a Non-B visa for the purpose of teaching employment.

I've been reading information from labor and MFA offices, and of course many posts here and over at Ajarn.com - in particular http://www.thaivisa....332-non-b-visa/, and http://www.thaivisa....n-b-processing/

Here are the official requirements from the Embassy in Vientiane

http://vientiane.tha...consular_check/

If for no other reason than to clarify my own understanding - here is what I believe is a summary of what I may need for a Non-B Visa application at the Thai embassy in Vientiane, or the consulate in Savannakhet in Laos (should I favour one over the other? Savannakhet might be a bit cheaper for me)

Must:

1. Application form + 2 3.5cm x 4.5 cm photos
   
2. Letter of offer/employment from school along with a copy of the employment contact (are both required?)
   
3. A copy of my degree certificate and transcripts along with any other academic qualifications (are originals ever asked for? Should I take originals along just in case?)
   
4. The Fee (2,000 Baht)
   

Maybe:?

1. A Letter of Recommendation from the MoE? or Teachers Council? I still don't know what this is exactly. Is this the 2 year TCs teaching license waiver involved here? Or is this only required for the WP application when I get back?
   
2. A teaching certificate? I don't have one (I have a non-education degree). Is this related to 1) above? Or again, is this only relevant to the WP application when I get back?
   
3. I've read that a receipt/or letter of work permit approval based on a WP3 application may NOT be required for a teacher http://www.thaivisa....-b-processing/. WP3 is an application for an alien work permit while the alien is OUT of the country - and would usually be completed by the employer and then required to support the Non-B visa application (for the purpose of employment) at the Thai embassy or consulate where the Non-B visa application is being made.
   
4. A copy of the school's registration certificate?
   
5. A copy of "Letter from the Ministry of Education of Thailand or other sub-authorities concerned approve the employment of foreign academic personnel."?
   
6. Police clearance certificate (CRB). I don't have this and it will take 120 days to get one from my home country. Iv'e been told by both @Colabamumbai and @ThaiRich in an earlier post - that this will not be asked for (although it is discretionary). I've been living in Thailand for a while now - and was thinking of getting a Thai CRB done to take along just in case.
   

I'm not sure if this will make a difference - but I gather the demonstration school I've been offered a job at is fairly well known. The contract and letter of offer will likely come from the parent university for the school. Staff at either the Thai embassy in Vientiane or the consulate in Savannakhet will also likely have heard of the school.

Any tips, answers or advice related to any of the above would be greatly appreciated before I set off - in particular whether I should go to Vientiane or Savannakhet (or whether it makes any difference). I'm currently waiting for the letter of offer and contract from the school (which will arrive next week when term starts again).

Best,

waters

[Colabamumbai]

Hve done this many times bare with me as I try to answer, going for my extension this week, the first 90 days expiring Nov. 25. I am not going to follow the links you have posted.

Ask your school if they have done this before they should know and have samples on hand.

1.Copy of contract

2. Letter of invitation and why they need you in the letter ie Native English speaker

3.Copies of all school documentation ( I do not read Thai)

4.Copies of degrees diplomas copies are fine

5. Schedule showing min 16 hours a month, should be stated in contract.

6. Receipt for W.P. I did not have mine Vientiane it was ok MOE Kalasin would not give me receipt until they gave me W.P. after seeing NON B Most MOE offices will give you the receipt

7. Licence of School registratioin certificate

8. The form called Form of Employment Certification

9. Teachers waiver from Pruksapa in Bangkok (Vientiane refused me this document missing

on first application had to go back a second time with this.) Fairly new rule to my knowledge.

10. Google Map of school location

Should not need police clearance never had one

My school is private Wat school copies of I.D. of Monk owner/operator

Copies of Lao visa can do at Embassy upstairs while waiting for your number.

copies of Lao entry stamp

Copy of first page of passport

2 Photos 2,000baht

Probably something else........just going thru all mu documents now in order to help you....

Best I can do If something glaring missing and I think of it I will update post.

Have received 4 NON B's in Vientiane 3 for teaching in the past 3 years most recent August 2012.

Your choice of where Savannakhet may go a little easier on you, have never been there although I live closer to it.

What else???????

[waters]

Hi Colabamumbai - thank you for your reply. Very helpful.

In your point 9 - The teachers waiver from Pruksapa. I'm assuming 'Pruksapa' is the Teachers Council? And that this wavier is the two year waiver in lieu of a teaching license?

Also in point 8. The form called 'Form of Employment Certification' - can you tell me a little more about what this is? Is this evidence that the school (or organization) is eligible to employ aliens? Is this a Thai document?

Best,

water

[Colabamumbai]

I forgot to tell you (just started pouring rain here in Sahatsakhan, first time in 2 months had to shut the windows)

Pay for Lao visa in Dollars rates very per nationality ie Canadian Passports pay U.S. 42.00 a dollar more on weekends and holidays or 1,800 Baht the equivalent of $60.00 U.S. So use dollars

Weekends $43. X 30 = 1,290 Baht compared to 1,800 Baht. Save your money.

Air new bus Lao side to Vientiane bus station 20 bhat vs 200 in a van or taxi they will tell you 300 Bhat when you offer 200 they will pretend they did not hear you lots of taxi/van hustlers as you await visa ignore them enter and look to your right side for the A/C bus or Lao share vans 50 to 100 Baht to your hotel or to the river Dragons Head hotel 450 Baht close to everything many cheaper, watch for bed bugs in cheap places

Being going to Laos for nearly 40 years, before tourists started going there just love it and go whenever I get a few days off.

Vientiane much better place many hotels and guest houses, international community. Savannakhet not much of anything

With Thai phone card ie 12 call your phone will work close to the river but not in town.

[Colabamumbai]

Hi Colabamumbai - thank you for your reply. Very helpful.

In your point 9 - The teachers waiver from Pruksapa. I'm assuming 'Pruksapa' is the Teachers Council? And that this wavier is the two year waiver in lieu of a teaching license?

Also in point 8. The form called 'Form of Employment Certification' - can you tell me a little more about what this is? Is this evidence that the school (or organization) is eligible to employ aliens? Is this a Thai document?

Best,

water

Give me a moment

Contains employers information name address type of business number of work permit holders, number of classrooms in operation number of students

"I desire to employ Colabamumbai Nationality Canadian blod group B (I told them that) your address.

To perform type of Job................................Position/occupation/prefession

Job description.......................Place of work.....................Contract period.............

Wages........................other benefits.......... highest education............Job experience..

Single married

Reason not to Hire a Thai..................(not filled out) because your contract or invitation states that....

That is your Form of Employment Certification

Teachers Waiver point 9. you are exactly correct you have to write an exam in 2 years.

Took 2 weeks to get g.f did all the paper work for everything my school is useless and new and I am the only foreigner..... Alex

[waters]

Wow @Colabamumbai - thanks again - all very helpful. Sounds like you have done an amazing job of surviving all the paperwork on your own. :-)

[Colabamumbai]

Wow @Colabamumbai - thanks again - all very helpful. Sounds like you have done an amazing job of surviving all the paperwork on your own. :-)

That and g/f Thai teacher hates them all does not want to go out from the house where ever she goes fellow country men/women want her help with something she is sick of them all and embarrased to be a "Thai". When she sees how I am treated. disrespected and looked down upon.

Last week I taught 50 Thai teachers at my school for 3 days froma number of schools in the area. English and grammar workshop, Gave them worksheets to use with their students I was paid 1,000 Baht and throughly insulted by that.

On the first and last day I told all the Thai teachers to email me for lesson plans, or if they wanted me to come and play/teach/have fun with their students for an hour, to email me or call all free and thirdly I told them I offer classes in my home in the afternoons and weekends for a fee 30 hours 3,500Bhat 1/2 now and 1/2 after 15 hours.... On the last day I reminded them again and included my flyer/brochure in their worksheets with all info and a map to my home.

So three offers I made well 4 I told them if they wanted to practice writing

English they could send me emails and I would correct them and return them.

I think you and I know how many calls and emails I have received.................

I speak and understand Thai, went to Thai langage school, knowing I would spend the rest of my life here, well between here and Laos...... I get sick of the lies and stories remember they have to save face at any cost (seena)

[TerryLH]

"Gave them worksheets to use with their students I was paid 1,000 Baht and throughly insulted by that."

Really, 'throughly' insulted? How much were you expecting?

"...and thirdly I told them I offer classes in my home in the afternoons and weekends for a fee..."

Did your gf help you get the WP for that also, or did the school help?

Terry

[Colabamumbai]

"Gave them worksheets to use with their students I was paid 1,000 Baht and throughly insulted by that."

Really, 'throughly' insulted? How much were you expecting?

"...and thirdly I told them I offer classes in my home in the afternoons and weekends for a fee..."

Did your gf help you get the WP for that also, or did the school help?

Terry

Well put it this way I get paid hourly, not monthly salary, only hours worked, 300 Baht per hour. and I worked for 6 hours at the school and a good four hours preparing. 10 hours lets say 300 Bhat per hour 3,000. I tried to talk to the director before hand to ascertain my pay for the three days and he conveniently made him self unavailable.

It cost me with two trips to Laos because the school knew nothing about the teachers waiver and I had to go to Laos a second time total expenses 2 trips 13,520 Baht not including food and incidentals....the school contributed absolutely nothing. I have have paper in front of me because I want to present it to the head monk so he knows the expenses that I have incurred for me to work at their school. (2 visas to Laos 2 visas to Thailand a tourist visa while I waited for the teachers waiver. and not included was a tourist visa between my last employer and this one while I waited for this school to get their documentation from the government being a new school

The only paper work the school provided was the documentation that they have to provide for both the visa and the work permit We had to instruct them, with sample copies from previous schools. The labour office wanted to know why no one from the school accompanied me, some documents were incorrect, the labor office called the director 2x and my girlfriend 2x to tell them both what was missing, so 3 trips to labor in total.

Don' t expect any help from your school even if they state in the contract they will contribute to exxpenses, I have worked at a number of schools and many do not live up to their contracts. Take it or leave it.

You don't get a work permit to work from home.

[waters]

And there I was hoping that this thread might turn into a consolidated 'on-topic' discussion about Non-B visas for teachers. :-)

[Colabamumbai]

And there I was hoping that this thread might turn into a consolidated 'on-topic' discussion about Non-B visas for teachers. :-)

And why would you expect that? Is this in the Teaching Forum? I just try to be helpful and had all the papers on my desk when you posted, just had them signed at my school this morning.

[TerryLH]

"You don't get a work permit to work from home."

Since it's illegal, you probably shouldn't be advertising the fact here.

I guess I've been lucky. I've only worked at schools that did what they told me they were going to do.

Terry

[ThaiRich]

"Gave them worksheets to use with their students I was paid 1,000 Baht and throughly insulted by that."

Really, 'throughly' insulted? How much were you expecting?

"...and thirdly I told them I offer classes in my home in the afternoons and weekends for a fee..."

Did your gf help you get the WP for that also, or did the school help?

Terry

Well put it this way I get paid hourly, not monthly salary, only hours worked, 300 Baht per hour. and I worked for 6 hours at the school and a good four hours preparing. 10 hours lets say 300 Bhat per hour 3,000. I tried to talk to the director before hand to ascertain my pay for the three days and he conveniently made him self unavailable.

It cost me with two trips to Laos because the school knew nothing about the teachers waiver and I had to go to Laos a second time total expenses 2 trips 13,520 Baht not including food and incidentals....the school contributed absolutely nothing. I have have paper in front of me because I want to present it to the head monk so he knows the expenses that I have incurred for me to work at their school. (2 visas to Laos 2 visas to Thailand a tourist visa while I waited for the teachers waiver. and not included was a tourist visa between my last employer and this one while I waited for this school to get their documentation from the government being a new school

The only paper work the school provided was the documentation that they have to provide for both the visa and the work permit We had to instruct them, with sample copies from previous schools. The labour office wanted to know why no one from the school accompanied me, some documents were incorrect, the labor office called the director 2x and my girlfriend 2x to tell them both what was missing, so 3 trips to labor in total.

Don' t expect any help from your school even if they state in the contract they will contribute to exxpenses, I have worked at a number of schools and many do not live up to their contracts. Take it or leave it.

You don't get a work permit to work from home.

You should leave that school, if its so bad. At 300 baht an hour it is going to take you a long time just to earn back the money you have spent just to get your non B visa ect., best to change schools now. My school has always provided all the paper work and covered all expenses involved with getting and extending my visa and work permit. My experience is that if the school really wants you that they will make it as easy for you as possible and if they don't care one way or the other they will make little effort to make the visa/work permit process easy for you. You said you are treated with disrespect. I doubt i would stick around where I was treated like that..

[Colabamumbai]

"You don't get a work permit to work from home."

Since it's illegal, you probably shouldn't be advertising the fact here.

I guess I've been lucky. I've only worked at schools that did what they told me they were going to do.

Terry

You are correct I am just the pretty face foreign face my wife takes the money and does the teaching, clients being the sons and daughters of police and government officials.

[ThaiRich]

"You don't get a work permit to work from home."

Since it's illegal, you probably shouldn't be advertising the fact here.

I guess I've been lucky. I've only worked at schools that did what they told me they were going to do.

Terry

You are correct I am just the pretty face foreign face my wife takes the money and does the teaching, clients being the sons and daughters of police and government officials.

[Colabamumbai]

"Gave them worksheets to use with their students I was paid 1,000 Baht and throughly insulted by that."

Really, 'throughly' insulted? How much were you expecting?

"...and thirdly I told them I offer classes in my home in the afternoons and weekends for a fee..."

Did your gf help you get the WP for that also, or did the school help?

Terry

Well put it this way I get paid hourly, not monthly salary, only hours worked, 300 Baht per hour. and I worked for 6 hours at the school and a good four hours preparing. 10 hours lets say 300 Bhat per hour 3,000. I tried to talk to the director before hand to ascertain my pay for the three days and he conveniently made him self unavailable.

It cost me with two trips to Laos because the school knew nothing about the teachers waiver and I had to go to Laos a second time total expenses 2 trips 13,520 Baht not including food and incidentals....the school contributed absolutely nothing. I have have paper in front of me because I want to present it to the head monk so he knows the expenses that I have incurred for me to work at their school. (2 visas to Laos 2 visas to Thailand a tourist visa while I waited for the teachers waiver. and not included was a tourist visa between my last employer and this one while I waited for this school to get their documentation from the government being a new school

The only paper work the school provided was the documentation that they have to provide for both the visa and the work permit We had to instruct them, with sample copies from previous schools. The labour office wanted to know why no one from the school accompanied me, some documents were incorrect, the labor office called the director 2x and my girlfriend 2x to tell them both what was missing, so 3 trips to labor in total.

Don' t expect any help from your school even if they state in the contract they will contribute to exxpenses, I have worked at a number of schools and many do not live up to their contracts. Take it or leave it.

You don't get a work permit to work from home.

You should leave that school, if its so bad. At 300 baht an hour it is going to take you a long time just to earn back the money you have spent just to get your non B visa ect., best to change schools now. My school has always provided all the paper work and covered all expenses involved with getting and extending my visa and work permit. My experience is that if the school really wants you that they will make it as easy for you as possible and if they don't care one way or the other they will make little effort to make the visa/work permit process easy for you. You said you are treated with disrespect. I doubt i would stick around where I was treated like that..

As I said "take it or leave it. We are all disposable here teachers more so. They do not want us, but they do need us.

We all get respect to your face but other than that we are as disposable as what goes down the toilet. Some have better employers than others. Some have employers who have experience with the paperwork and costs involved in obtaining visas and work permits. I am always up to a challenge.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt until they show me other wise. " You will have more hours teaching me privately, you will have more hours working at a school down the road, since I am on the board of directors there. You will have more hours next term when we have more intake and will have more students."

[Psych01]

You will need to have your transcripts Translated into Thai and signed as a true translation etc.

[waters]

Hi Psych01 - I'm not so sure about that one. I've read that for degrees and transcripts that are not in English , that a certified translations may be required - at least for other offices like the TCT. But I've never heard of certified translations being required for a Non-B Visa. Since Visa applications are processed outside of Thailand - this would be a nearly impossible requirement to fill.

[Colabamumbai]

Only if your employer demands it. I have never been asked. Not required by immigration here, for extensions or in applying for visa at Thai Embassy.

[jen1025]

Somewhat different topic but related. I was required to present my original college diploma for my most recent Non-B Visa. Read on:

I changed jobs this past April; and after a visa run to Laos for double entry tourist visa after finishing old job (thank God I did that instead of listening to them telling me to fly into Laos and just come back with a 30 day stamp - would not have been enough time based on the paperwork lag and would have cost much more for half as many visa days; though don't get me started on the end of old job part of the story), my new employer told me we would be making the Non-B Visa at Chaeng Wattana in Bangkok by paying to convert the tourist visa.

This is possible, for 2K baht fee. So you do the runner between jobs, but not a second time, I guess, by getting just a tourist visa on your run and then converting in country. Take note - if it's tight month, and it will be on a visa run month - that if you employer says they reimburse your visa - they might mean they'll reimburse your extension to a one-year Non-B, but not your conversion from tourist to Non-B - add that to your visa run calculations if you're told to do this.

Though it sounds like in your case they are taking the route of making the Non-B in Laos.

Since both possible scenarios led me to visa running I'm not sure what the difference was exactly except maybe saving one trip. Maybe.

But (the related part!) I bring this up because upon applying for a change of visa from tourist to Non-B, in Bangkok - I was asked to present my original college diploma as listed above for making a Non-B. No copy - "could be fake!" And I also watched a few other dismayed foreigners dealing with the same issue and making 15 day runners to Cambodia but still not getting enough time in country to get the paperwork complete...again this was spring 2012.

This may be part of why many schools insist on making the application in Laos - perhaps in Laos they haven't begun asking to see original diplomas, as I experienced in Bangkok? I've also heard the diploma crack down is recent "because some schools they hire the fake one, the fake teacher." <quoting school visa secretary. Had to work really hard not to laugh.

Now, if you're making the Non-B itself in Laos (the visa person told me "oh cannot not enough time!") then this point may be irrelevant.

But having had to get my college diploma re-issued (I had to get the Assistant Registrar to bend the rule for my situation - after a ridiculously long email describing Thai Immigration procedure she was happy to assist), and FedEx-ed to me here - this might be necessary for some people to know. Thailand will not check with your University; they want to see a piece of paper with lots of embossed golden seals and signatures and stamps and what not - that's what makes it official.

I believe my notarized transcript, complete with pretty gold seal helped matters too - but the officer took my actual degree and took it out of it's case, held it up to the light, checked the back, the whole shebang. That's what they wanted to see.

Now - nowhere on my degree does it say 'education,' even though I did in fact study education, in part, it just says Bachelor of Arts (oh that's another story...) but they wanted to verify the diploma's authenticity. So not to worry anyone that it has to be an education degree.

Later, I was told I should have had the original the first time around and my former boss pulled some strings - so long as I was working for them. Once I was done; well you know how that goes.

All of my documents are in English since I'm American and so far I haven't had an issue with getting documents translated; but I also had a German colleague run into the translation problem stated farther up the thread - when dealing with trying to get a Thai teacher's license, though, not for Non-B Visa. Including - wait for it - being told his Bachelor of Arts degree means he studied art, which is not education or teaching, so it doesn't count for being able to get a Thai teacher's license to teach, by the logic of the body governing the teacher's licenses. Um, you really understand those degree classifications, don't you guys?

*facepalm

Good luck and hopefully in Laos this won't be the case or you can be prepared, but this still might help other people.

[waters]

Hi jen1025 - thanks for this. Interesting reading and lots of points there to keep in mindy. Although the list of requirements from the Thai Embassy in Vientiane only ask for copies - I think I'll take my originals along just to be safe.

Best,

waters