American Tourist Found Dead In The Irrigation Canal

[bluweyze]

An american tourist was found dead in the irrigation canal having crashed his 'big' rented motorcycle. A female passenger was also dead (it doesn't name the relationship). It seems he had been in the canal 2 days. Very sad, may he rest in peace.One wonders if it was inexperience with bikes or driving and drink or just an unfortunate accident.

http://www.chiangmaicitynews.com/news.php?id=1080

[LarryBird]

Mind boggling. Was the accident ever reported? Did the bike, the girl, and the guy all go missing in a flash and no one knew? Were they searching for the body for two days? Just trying to understand exactly what happened.

Was there no sign of an accident, and therefore no search and rescue?

[BookMan]

Mind boggling. Was the accident ever reported? Did the bike, the girl, and the guy all go missing in a flash and no one knew? Were they searching for the body for two days? Just trying to understand exactly what happened.

Was there no sign of an accident, and therefore no search and rescue?

Reading the article i think they found the woman's body and the bike and made some type of assumption she was riding alone?

Found the bloke a couple of days later

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Reading the article i think they found the woman's body and the bike and made some type of assumption she was riding alone?

Strange assumption for a rented big bike.

[BookMan]

Reading the article i think they found the woman's body and the bike and made some type of assumption she was riding alone?

Strange assumption for a rented big bike.

Yes very. Also the Bike hire place would have mentioned a guy rented it?

[TheVicar]

I wrote a thread on this same topic but made the inadvertent mistake of quoting the Bangkok Post, which is a no no here, as explained by a moderator, because the BP objects to it. I now understand that policy and of course, will abide by it.

What was interesting about the BP's report (and again I cannot quote it directly or provide a link) and is not indicated here as far as I can see, is that the American had received a blow to the back of his head and his body was being sent for an autopsy to a local hospital. That would suggest some sort of criminal activity, whereas the above posts suggest little more than driving negligence and make no mention of an autopsy. Do the local authorities just want to hush up another murder (recall the lady guest house owner murdered by a Indian customer a month or so ago) ahead of the tourist season? I don't know and I have zero inside information. But the two different accounts do seem at some variance.

What is also odd is the location of the "accident". The link above says: " Police Major Somchai Maiman from Phuping Police Station told Citynews that the accident happened on Monday November 12th in front of Khum Phucome Hotel near the Huay Kaew intersection." However, it says the body was found in the irrigation canal near Wat Rampueng, which, I believe, is some distance away (maybe 3 or 4 kilometers). The report in the BP reported the body was found in the Suthep area, in which Wat Rampueng is located.

Here is another discrepancy in accounts. The original BP story, as I remember, said the body had been in the water 12-24 hours. This story says 2 days. 12-24 hours probably would not have been enough time for the body to float from where the accident allegedly happened to where the body was found, some distance away!

One item I enjoyed from the link provided above is the statement that goes something like, due to the fact that there are so many traffic fatalities, information was not provided about the death to the media (yet the BP seemed to have made a very quick response, with a newsflash story posted yesterday).

Edited November 15, 2012 by TheVicar

[banjo284]

Yes very odd I also read the another report on facebook it has now been removed! Suspicious? That report said he had a serious head injury,crushed chest and broken leg,no mention of a woman or bike.

[TheVicar]

Yes very odd I also read the another report on facebook it has now been removed! Suspicious? That report said he had a serious head injury,crushed chest and broken leg,no mention of a woman or bike.

Yes, that is the info that I read also in the BP story (see my other post above) too. They also mentioned the body was being sent to a hospital for an autopsy which is inconsistent with a traffic accident.

Edited November 15, 2012 by TheVicar

[Pikey]

Yes very odd I also read the another report on facebook it has now been removed! Suspicious? That report said he had a serious head injury,crushed chest and broken leg,no mention of a woman or bike.

Yes, that is the info that I read also in the BP story (see my other post above) too. They also mentioned the body was being sent to a hospital for an autopsy which is inconsistent with a traffic accident.

As a biker of 30+ years I'd say the guy hit something immovable, the inertia caused his passenger to "headbutt" him on the back of the head then he went over the bars and into the canal. Chest injuries from either the bars or hitting the wall on the way over. The canal has a current so no surprise that his body was not found in the immediate area of the accident.

I knew the girl and she was always happy and smiling. RIP to both of them. Tragic.

Pikey.

[LarryBird]

Yes very odd I also read the another report on facebook it has now been removed! Suspicious? That report said he had a serious head injury,crushed chest and broken leg,no mention of a woman or bike.

Yes, that is the info that I read also in the BP story (see my other post above) too. They also mentioned the body was being sent to a hospital for an autopsy which is inconsistent with a traffic accident.

As a biker of 30+ years I'd say the guy hit something immovable, the inertia caused his passenger to "headbutt" him on the back of the head then he went over the bars and into the canal. Chest injuries from either the bars or hitting the wall on the way over. The canal has a current so no surprise that his body was not found in the immediate area of the accident.

I knew the girl and she was always happy and smiling. RIP to both of them. Tragic.

Pikey.

Cool, what did he hit?

Did anyone see it?

Were they wearing helmets?

Did he die before he reached the canal? (If he died in the canal, we'd probably expect him to drown, in which case the body probably wouldn't float.) Where'd the bike end up?

When did they find the bike?

Was there ever a search put out for them?

How do they all go over the barrier, disappear, no one sees it, notices a person, or a bike? How do they hit so the bike goes disappearing too? Perpendicular?

[mamborobert]

Yes very odd I also read the another report on facebook it has now been removed! Suspicious? That report said he had a serious head injury,crushed chest and broken leg,no mention of a woman or bike.

Yes, that is the info that I read also in the BP story (see my other post above) too. They also mentioned the body was being sent to a hospital for an autopsy which is inconsistent with a traffic accident.

As a biker of 30+ years I'd say the guy hit something immovable, the inertia caused his passenger to "headbutt" him on the back of the head then he went over the bars and into the canal. Chest injuries from either the bars or hitting the wall on the way over. The canal has a current so no surprise that his body was not found in the immediate area of the accident.

I knew the girl and she was always happy and smiling. RIP to both of them. Tragic.

Pikey.

Can you advise the name of the girl and/or bar at all...thanks

Edited November 15, 2012 by mamborobert

[naammanow]

I was there when they dredged the body out of the water and he was wearing only his briefs, underwear. Bit strange if he was riding a bike and crashed through the barrier. For sure he would not be riding wearing only his briefs?

[Beetlejuice]

I wrote a thread on this same topic but made the inadvertent mistake of quoting the Bangkok Post, which is a no no here, as explained by a moderator, because the BP objects to it. I now understand that policy and of course, will abide by it.

What was interesting about the BP's report (and again I cannot quote it directly or provide a link) and is not indicated here as far as I can see, is that the American had received a blow to the back of his head and his body was being sent for an autopsy to a local hospital. That would suggest some sort of criminal activity, whereas the above posts suggest little more than driving negligence and make no mention of an autopsy. Do the local authorities just want to hush up another murder (recall the lady guest house owner murdered by a Indian customer a month or so ago) ahead of the tourist season? I don't know and I have zero inside information. But the two different accounts do seem at some variance.

What is also odd is the location of the "accident". The link above says: " Police Major Somchai Maiman from Phuping Police Station told Citynews that the accident happened on Monday November 12th in front of Khum Phucome Hotel near the Huay Kaew intersection." However, it says the body was found in the irrigation canal near Wat Rampueng, which, I believe, is some distance away (maybe 3 or 4 kilometers). The report in the BP reported the body was found in the Suthep area, in which Wat Rampueng is located.

Here is another discrepancy in accounts. The original BP story, as I remember, said the body had been in the water 12-24 hours. This story says 2 days. 12-24 hours probably would not have been enough time for the body to float from where the accident allegedly happened to where the body was found, some distance away!

One item I enjoyed from the link provided above is the statement that goes something like, due to the fact that there are so many traffic fatalities, information was not provided about the death to the media (yet the BP seemed to have made a very quick response, with a newsflash story posted yesterday).

And so we have another armchair conspiracy expert. We have a large stock of Bangkok Posts here at our home, saves us a fortune on buying bog paper.

The extent of the injuries incurred on the bodies was the result of hitting cement obstacles at high speed, impact as he was catapulted from the bike into the canal. The reports said that there was hardly a bone in his body, which was not fractured or broken and had sustained many internal injuries.

It is believed that the man due to his inexperience of using powerful motorbikes, including that he may have been over the legal alcohol limits, perhaps not wearing a safety helmet because it hasn’t been found, plus travelling at high speed at night, caused him to become disorientated and lose control of the vehicle. As for his female passenger, details regarding her will be released later.

It is understood that the reason why the accident was not witnessed is because this incident took place during the very late hours and there no one about the area at the time. The motorbike rental shop did not report the motorbike as stolen because the guy had rented the bike for several days and had paid in advanced, so they had no reasons to be suspicious or report the motorbike as stolen.

The facebook article had probably been removed in respect of the man’s family and by the man’s family.

An extremely horrific and tragic state of affairs indeed.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[Sparkles]

I was there when they dredged the body out of the water and he was wearing only his briefs, underwear. Bit strange if he was riding a bike and crashed through the barrier. For sure he would not be riding wearing only his briefs?

This whole sad story is riddled with contradictions,will the truth ever be known ? not if it follows the same path of the Downtown Hotel deaths. RIP and condolences for the families

[MESmith]

I was there when they dredged the body out of the water and he was wearing only his briefs, underwear. Bit strange if he was riding a bike and crashed through the barrier. For sure he would not be riding wearing only his briefs?

Hitting the water at speed may have removed clothing.

[coma]

He we ago again...... I find it a little strange for one that nobody seen or heard the crash when it happened. I won't even go on with other inconsistant points until we know more.

[mamborobert]

The Citynews article advises that he had an iphone and his wallet in his pockets.....another report had him as "shirtless", the photo seems to suggest this. I would take it that he had shorts of some sort, that may have been tan/flesh coloured and in the water they cling or ride.

Edited November 15, 2012 by mamborobert

[mamborobert]

He we ago again...... I find it a little strange for one that nobody seen or heard the crash when it happened. I won't even go on with other inconsistant points until we know more.

Would'nt read too much into this at all I'm afraid. Someone may have heard that is not to suggest they do anything. Remember last week where a young girl was killed and neighbours heard the screaming but did nothing.

I have heard crashes (only a few) outside my place in the wee hours, and must admit I just think drunk speeding unlicensed and roll over and go back to sleep. I don't think I would be Robinson Crusoe on this.

As for seeing, I have taken a ride around the moat a lot at night and after maybe 2.00am there are lots of patches where there is no one at all.

Edited November 15, 2012 by mamborobert

[Beetlejuice]

There are many vehicle tourist accident injuries and deaths each year in Thailand, most go unreported and these people end up as just another statistic.

Those who are lacking in experience of the lax highway laws here, driving motorbikes and the Thai driving systems suddenly take to the road treating the vehicle as if it were a wild stallion racing along on the plain.

The wise man says; don`t try to run before you can walk. Hire a vehicle not out of your league and take a day or two to get the feel of the vehicle, the way of driving and the road systems here.

All these things should be in the major list of dos and don`ts published in the tourist guides, but considering they are not, it`s up to everyone to play it smart and play it safe.

Please return home to your families intact and in the same condition as you arrived, not as pieces contained in a wooden box.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[TheVicar]

I wrote a thread on this same topic but made the inadvertent mistake of quoting the Bangkok Post, which is a no no here, as explained by a moderator, because the BP objects to it. I now understand that policy and of course, will abide by it.

What was interesting about the BP's report (and again I cannot quote it directly or provide a link) and is not indicated here as far as I can see, is that the American had received a blow to the back of his head and his body was being sent for an autopsy to a local hospital. That would suggest some sort of criminal activity, whereas the above posts suggest little more than driving negligence and make no mention of an autopsy. Do the local authorities just want to hush up another murder (recall the lady guest house owner murdered by a Indian customer a month or so ago) ahead of the tourist season? I don't know and I have zero inside information. But the two different accounts do seem at some variance.

What is also odd is the location of the "accident". The link above says: " Police Major Somchai Maiman from Phuping Police Station told Citynews that the accident happened on Monday November 12th in front of Khum Phucome Hotel near the Huay Kaew intersection." However, it says the body was found in the irrigation canal near Wat Rampueng, which, I believe, is some distance away (maybe 3 or 4 kilometers). The report in the BP reported the body was found in the Suthep area, in which Wat Rampueng is located.

Here is another discrepancy in accounts. The original BP story, as I remember, said the body had been in the water 12-24 hours. This story says 2 days. 12-24 hours probably would not have been enough time for the body to float from where the accident allegedly happened to where the body was found, some distance away!

One item I enjoyed from the link provided above is the statement that goes something like, due to the fact that there are so many traffic fatalities, information was not provided about the death to the media (yet the BP seemed to have made a very quick response, with a newsflash story posted yesterday).

And so we have another armchair conspiracy expert. We have a large stock of Bangkok Posts here at our home, saves us a fortune on buying bog paper.

The extent of the injuries incurred on the bodies was the result of hitting cement obstacles at high speed, impact as he was catapulted from the bike into the canal. The reports said that there was hardly a bone in his body, which was not fractured or broken and had sustained many internal injuries.

It is believed that the man due to his inexperience of using powerful motorbikes, including that he may have been over the legal alcohol limits, perhaps not wearing a safety helmet because it hasn’t been found, plus travelling at high speed at night, caused him to become disorientated and lose control of the vehicle. As for his female passenger, details regarding her will be released later.

It is understood that the reason why the accident was not witnessed is because this incident took place during the very late hours and there no one about the area at the time. The motorbike rental shop did not report the motorbike as stolen because the guy had rented the bike for several days and had paid in advanced, so they had no reasons to be suspicious or report the motorbike as stolen.

The facebook article had probably been removed in respect of the man’s family and by the man’s family.

An extremely horrific and tragic state of affairs indeed.

1. I"m pointing out the obvious contradictions between the reports; do you have any facts to substantiate your theories?

2. What about the autopsy that the BP reported? That is not commonly done unless foul play is suspected and is not done in motorcycle accidents.

3. If he was not wearing a helmet, and presumably his girlfriend wasn't either, how did he receive a blow to the back of the head as reported in the original BP article. In an accident, unless she was as large as he was, it would be unlikely that her head would strike him from behind. They would both have been going forward together. And why was her body found separately from his?

4. The original BP article said he had a broken leg, caved in chest, and head injury to the back of the head; not that all his bones were broken as you claim.

5. Such an accident as you claim happened would have been very noisy. It would have attracted attention. The Canal Rd is one of the busiest in all of Chiang Mai, at all hours. I know first hand because I travel on it multiple times a day and at different times. And, there is a police box directly on Canal Road not far from where the accident is supposed to have happened. Yet, no eyewitnesses, no bike recovery, etc. etc. And where exactly was the body of the girl found?

6. A post above by a person who witnessed his body recovery from the canal, insists he was only wearing briefs. As that person noted, that's strange attire to be biking in! Moreover, a poster to the story above claims that he is a friend of the deceased and that the man owned his own bike; it was not a rental. So it's not apparently a case of a person using a big bike he was unfamiliar with as you claim.

7. There are too many inconsistencies between the original story and the one in the link above and some eyewitness accounts. A high speed motorcycle crash doesn't seem likely. Also, were there barriers/parts of the canal road damaged to support your accident theory? Rubber skids on the road? None were reported that I know of.

Edited November 15, 2012 by TheVicar

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I ride up an down the canal on my mountain bike and lately the water is moving pretty quickly so I think a body could travel some distance.

Sure people may have heard an accident but there is a definite tendency for Thai's to not get involved in accidents. Not sure the exact reason but its a bias. Not judging but just a reality.

Would be interesting to hear some theories on why Thai people don't rush to get involved in accidents etc.

[MESmith]

Would be interesting to hear some theories on why Thai people don't rush to get involved in accidents etc.

Lack of morals? But probably not, 'cos that's applying my logic, thinking, standards, so probably barking up the wrong tree

[TheVicar]

I ride up an down the canal on my mountain bike and lately the water is moving pretty quickly so I think a body could travel some distance.

Sure people may have heard an accident but there is a definite tendency for Thai's to not get involved in accidents. Not sure the exact reason but its a bias. Not judging but just a reality.

Would be interesting to hear some theories on why Thai people don't rush to get involved in accidents etc.

That may be true in some minor fender benders but this is an accident in which it is claimed that two people died. You can see that gets the attention of Thais from all the people in the picture at the canal. It's not clear where the ladies body was found but it would seem to be near the crash site. A dead body on the road usually attracts attention. There are also multiple police boxes on Canal Road in that area. I think something sounds strange about the official account and the wide disparity between the newspaper accounts, with the BP originally reporting that a body was found and was being taken to a hospital for an autopsy. That doesn't happen in routine traffic accidents.

Edited November 15, 2012 by TheVicar

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I ride up an down the canal on my mountain bike and lately the water is moving pretty quickly so I think a body could travel some distance.

Sure people may have heard an accident but there is a definite tendency for Thai's to not get involved in accidents. Not sure the exact reason but its a bias. Not judging but just a reality.

Would be interesting to hear some theories on why Thai people don't rush to get involved in accidents etc.

That may be true in some minor fender benders but this is an accident in which it is claimed that two people died. You can see that gets the attention of Thais from all the people in the picture at the canal. It's not clear where the ladies body was found but it would seem to be near the crash site. A dead body on the road usually attracts attention. There are also multiple police boxes on Canal Road in that area. I think something sounds strange about the official account and the wide disparity between the newspaper accounts, with the BP originally reporting that a body was found and was being taken to a hospital for an autopsy. That doesn't happen in routine traffic accidents.

Maybe.. you might be reaching though.. Does a fatal accident into a canal have a different sound? Who knows the wind and other normal sounds. Lot of assumptions there.

Still my guess is some Thai's heard it but perhaps misinterpreted it or didn't want to get involved.

Why would a Thai tend to not get involved? I don't think its a bad tendency but I would like to know the thinking. I am guessing it very rational in their perspective.

[sharktooth]

I was there when they dredged the body out of the water and he was wearing only his briefs, underwear. Bit strange if he was riding a bike and crashed through the barrier. For sure he would not be riding wearing only his briefs?

Hitting the water at speed may have removed clothing.

I saw an accident when I was a kid in the uk. A guy on a motorbike had a head on collision with a car at speed and the impact of him hitting the road after going over the car and landing around 70m away ripped his jeans off. Not a sight I will ever forget. Also his bike basically exploded and went over the embankment and landed on the railway line.

[mickmac]

Would be interesting to hear some theories on why Thai people don't rush to get involved in accidents etc.

Lack of morals? But probably not, 'cos that's applying my logic, thinking, standards, so probably barking up the wrong tree

I was told by the wife to keep going after seeing an accident, a young bike rider ran into a tree on the side of the moat, she said that if we stopped and helped that we would be liable to pay for his ambulance if we called one for him, also medical bills. So that may be a reason why Thai's don't stop to help. Maybe they could be sued if anything went wrong after trying to help an injured person?

(I did stop and Taepai gate and told a policeman there was an accident back up the road, he just told me to get back in the car and move off).

[Beetlejuice]

Would be interesting to hear some theories on why Thai people don't rush to get involved in accidents etc.

Lack of morals? But probably not, 'cos that's applying my logic, thinking, standards, so probably barking up the wrong tree

I was told by the wife to keep going after seeing an accident, a young bike rider ran into a tree on the side of the moat, she said that if we stopped and helped that we would be liable to pay for his ambulance if we called one for him, also medical bills. So that may be a reason why Thai's don't stop to help. Maybe they could be sued if anything went wrong after trying to help an injured person?

(I did stop and Taepai gate and told a policeman there was an accident back up the road, he just told me to get back in the car and move off).

Great attitude that of your wife.

If ever I see someone smashed up on the side of the road possibly dying, I must remember not to get carried way and not stop to assist him/her, but rather just turn a blind eye and continue on with my journey just in case I may get lumbered with any ambulance or medical fees.

After reading your post and that of the conspiracy man, I really feel like I want to vomit. Pray be that it`s never one of my or one of your family members, a close friend, you, your wife or myself lying there in the dirt somewhere desperately in need of help and how quickly the help arrives could mean life or death. Now I really am thinking that it was highly possible that the American guy’s tragic accident was witnessed and people just ignored the situation, could be Thais or farangs, exactly the same as when that girl was being raped and murdered and nobody wanted to know.

What else is there to say? Because this just about sums it all up. Outrageous.

As for the conspiricy man, let me tell you that I have contacts in the police force and you are completely wrong. Trust me on this one.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[mickmac]

Would be interesting to hear some theories on why Thai people don't rush to get involved in accidents etc.

Lack of morals? But probably not, 'cos that's applying my logic, thinking, standards, so probably barking up the wrong tree

I was told by the wife to keep going after seeing an accident, a young bike rider ran into a tree on the side of the moat, she said that if we stopped and helped that we would be liable to pay for his ambulance if we called one for him, also medical bills. So that may be a reason why Thai's don't stop to help. Maybe they could be sued if anything went wrong after trying to help an injured person?

(I did stop and Taepai gate and told a policeman there was an accident back up the road, he just told me to get back in the car and move off).

Great attitude that of your wife.

If ever I see someone smashed up on the side of the road possibly dying, I must remember not to get carried way and not stop to assist him/her, but rather just turn a blind eye and continue on with my journey just in case I may get lumbered with any ambulance or medical fees.

After reading your post and that of the conspiracy man, I really feel like I want to vomit. Pray be that it`s never one of my or one of your family members, a close friend, you, your wife or myself lying there in the dirt somewhere desperately in need of help and how quickly the help arrives could mean life or death. Now I really am thinking that it was highly possible that the American guy’s tragic accident was witnessed and people just ignored the situation, could be Thais or farangs, exactly the same as when that girl was being raped and murdered and nobody wanted to know.

What else is there to say? Because this just about sums it all up. Outrageous.

As for the conspiricy man, let me tell you that I have contacts in the police force and you are completely wrong. Trust me on this one.

I'll have to remember your lovely warming words the next time I stop on a dual carriage way and pull an unconsious woman out of her car, just before it went up in flames. (I did this several years ago in the west of Ireland on the main by-pass out from Castlebar). Then again you wouldn't know anything about that would you, but boy you're sure quick to judge aren't you?. Hopefully you'll do your bit one day, when you stop to try to help someone and things don't go quite right for you, you may make a mistake. Next thing you know their family is sueing you, blaming you for what has happened, good luck with that !!!

You have to remember " we're not in Kansas any more Toto" so when in Rome do as the Romans do. As for my wife, leave her out of it. Its her country and she was doing what the greater majority of Thai's would do, leave well enough alone.

If you did manage to read my entire post before you got full of rightous indignation, you'll see that I stopped and informed the police, who basically politely told me to bugger off. If he cannot be bothered about the problem then why should I be, after all he's getting paid to sort these problems out.?

P.S. Do you often get nose bleeds, looking down on everyone from such a great height?

Edited November 15, 2012 by mickmac

[junglechef]

I was driving on a very windy mountainous road near Mae Salong and saw a motorcy on it's side with an middle-aged man looking quite injured, very bloody etc. My GF also told me not to stop but I chose to, perhaps against my better interest but with my better judgement of how I felt. He was obviously drunk and only had lots of cuts and scrapes and the ladies who were sitting in a little shop across the street were laughing and it seemed they knew who he was. Then they started to point at me and say that it was my fault (it looked like a dump truck going the other way was actually involved). I told them to call the police and left when I heard the sirens that help was on the way. I'm not going to comment on or judge others how they handle similar situations as I see the pros and cons of different responses but I felt comfortable with my actions.

[moe666]

The usual it has to be more than is reported because it is Thailand. In the end a drunk on a big bike not what I would say is to smart. If you have been in Thailand any lenght of time you know that the reports in different newspapers will be at odds, mostly the translation from Thai to english. I feel for the girl and her family but the guy sounds a bit like he should have been in Pats as these crashes happen there on a regular basis.

Tourist doing stupid stuff give Thailand a bad name