Family Visit Visa Prior To Spouse Visa - Possible?

[AngryParent]

Under the old UK immigration rules it appeared that getting a family visitor visa, whilst waiting for a spouse visa was not possible. See http://www.thaivisa....lement-visa-uk/ post #2.

Yesterday, a TV member claimed that under the new rules a visitor visa is possible http://www.thaivisa....es/page__st__50 post #65.

For people, such as myself, being seperated for a minimum of 6 months is very hard due to the new spouse visa requirements. So, is it possible to get a family visitor visa for a Thai spouse for 6 months, after which time the spouse then goes back to Thailand and applies for the spouse visa?

To the above, I add, would it make a difference if the UKBA was previously aware of the family's intention to move permanently back to the UK and apply for a spouse visa in 6 months time? Would it make a difference if there was a child also involved?

As an example scenario, a person who has been living and working in Thailand and is married to a Thai person, gets a job paying 18,600 (or 22,400 with child) in the UK tomorrow. Could that person fly off tomorrow, rent a house and after a week or so the Thai spouse applies for a 6 month family visitor visa and it is approved (in the 3 or so weeks - processing time). Possible?

Thanks in advance.

Edited November 15, 2012 by AngryParent

[Saudi Sid]

Angry

A TV member DID NOT claimed that under the new rules a visitor visa is possible at the same time as applying for a settlement visa.

You are missing just one MAJOR point here, Angry.....which you still dont appear to have grasped given your new thread. Slow down and take the time to read it. I know that you need to be an English Teacher to understand the UKBA site!!!!! But the post below and the next 2 should help you out.

The post you quote states in post 1 that the spouse wants to apply for a Tourist Visa Whilst Waiting For A Settlement Visa? (Uk) - effectively applying for two very different visas at the SAME TIME,

And in 7by7s response in 'post 2' of that same thread clearly and very rightly states why this is IMPOSSIBLE.

Note that at no point did I mention applying for both visas as the same time. Rather, one after the other and some six months apart.

Good luck

PS and please note that the CAPS are not to shout at you, rather to highlight some key points to draw your attention too.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Saudi Sid

[Saudi Sid]

For example:

• When my wife and I met, I lived in Thailand. We moved in together and later married.
  

• My wife then applied for a 6 month visit visa which was duly granted whilst I was still in Thailand.
  

• We returned to the UK, visited family etc
  

• I attended some interviews and I started working almost immediately.
  

• Over the next 6 months we prepared a strong application for a settlement visa.
  

• She returned to Thailand, submitted her application for settlement.
  

• During the waiting period I flew over to see her for two weeks.I returned to the UK.
  

• A few weeks her settlement visa was granted and she flew to be with me in the UK
  

• Over the years, she was granted ILR and finally citizenship.
  

And, all in, we were apart a matter of weeks.

Very simply.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Saudi Sid

[Saudi Sid]

And in your situation you could:

Apply for some jobs from Thailand

• Apply for your wife's visit visa (you have stated you have the means)
  
• Both of you return to the UK (You could even return a couple or 3 weeks early and continue the job search)
  
• You secure your position and start work
  
• After 6 months together your wife returns to Thailand (with a full application) and applies for settlement.
  
• You seperate for the time it takes to grant the settlement visa.
  
• Your wife retruns to the UK and is entering into a stable, employed and self sufficent household.
  

So, you are seperated for the time it takes her to be granted settlement, you could even take holidays and join her for part of the trip. Its simple, there is no 'forced seperation'.

This is, as was expained to you, exactly what Marston and I did and a plethora of others.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Saudi Sid

[AngryParent]

...snipped

Kindly do us all a favour and let OTHERS reply and verify what you have claimed, as till now you have not provided any EVIDENCE to support your claims.

Shhh! Silence for a while, OK?

Edited November 15, 2012 by AngryParent

[Saudi Sid]

OK - agreed. But you will come to realise that I am doing YOU a favour.

However lets be sure that the other posters fully grasp the real facts here and the MASSIVE mistake you are presenting in your understanding of those facts! Noone, at any point, is suggesting applying for a visit visa and a settlement visa at the SAME TIME!!!

My last three posts on this thread (2,3,4) now present a clear situation and you will get a clear, conscise response now based upon the issue of applying for, first the visit visa and then SIX MONTH LATER the settlement visa.

This is to help you.

I understand how tough it is for chaps to understand the UKBA site and even for some to understand this site - we can't all be English teachers and pros. Though there are expereinced hands here who will help you if you let them.

You will get some help - just be calm, relax and stop panicing, Angry.

OK?

PS

Shhh! Silence.

LOL, though you certainly do sound like an English Teacher - mine at secondary school. LOL

Edited November 15, 2012 by Saudi Sid

[Sianey]

To be honest I think it depends on individual circumstance. I don't think it is as easy as 'just get a visit visa AND THEN apply for a settlement'. I think UKBA will be looking a bit harder at these applications thinking that people maybe using it the get their foot in the door and not leave once the visa has ended, break the rules and work

This is the worry I have with my application. Although I earn above the required amount I took a months unpaid leave when I found out I was pregnant to go and stay with my husband. That means for one month I was only paid my shift enhancement of about £200 instead of by basic pay. £200 x 12 = 2400/year according to the new rules. As I'm on mat leave I have to submit wage slips 6 months prior to my leaving and sadly that includes this wage slip. I'm not due back of mat leave until the end of April.

I would apply for a visit visa but as my husband has not property (lves rent free in his bosses shop), has no fixed income (he works commission only) and only has a verbal contract with his boss I don't have any evidence but my word he will return to Thaland at the end of the visa to apply for settlement. I don't think this will be enough of UKBA and I think there will be many more people in this position.

[VisasPlus]

To be honest I think it depends on individual circumstance. I don't think it is as easy as 'just get a visit visa AND THEN apply for a settlement'. I think UKBA will be looking a bit harder at these applications thinking that people maybe using it the get their foot in the door and not leave once the visa has ended, break the rules and work

This is the worry I have with my application. Although I earn above the required amount I took a months unpaid leave when I found out I was pregnant to go and stay with my husband. That means for one month I was only paid my shift enhancement of about £200 instead of by basic pay. £200 x 12 = 2400/year according to the new rules. As I'm on mat leave I have to submit wage slips 6 months prior to my leaving and sadly that includes this wage slip. I'm not due back of mat leave until the end of April.

I would apply for a visit visa but as my husband has not property (lves rent free in his bosses shop), has no fixed income (he works commission only) and only has a verbal contract with his boss I don't have any evidence but my word he will return to Thaland at the end of the visa to apply for settlement. I don't think this will be enough of UKBA and I think there will be many more people in this position.

You are right that there are many more people in this situation. The government were aware that when they introduced the 18,600 GBP a year threshold something like 45% of new, or potential, applicants would be unable to meet the requirement.

Edited November 15, 2012 by VisasPlus

[Saudi Sid]

VisaPlus,

Can you let Angrry know if his Mrs can indeed follow the steps above?

Ta

[Saudi Sid]

I would apply for a visit visa but as my husband has not property (lves rent free in his bosses shop), has no fixed income (he works commission only) and only has a verbal contract with his boss I don't have any evidence but my word he will return to Thaland at the end of the visa to apply for settlement. I don't think this will be enough of UKBA and I think there will be many more people in this position.

So, he will haev dificulty proving he will return. However, that same difficulty would have been there prior to the new rules also! Proving there is a reason to return has always been the main stumbling block worldwide.

[AngryParent]

To be honest I think it depends on individual circumstance. I don't think it is as easy as 'just get a visit visa AND THEN apply for a settlement'. I think UKBA will be looking a bit harder at these applications thinking that people maybe using it the get their foot in the door and not leave once the visa has ended, break the rules and work

This is the worry I have with my application. Although I earn above the required amount I took a months unpaid leave when I found out I was pregnant to go and stay with my husband. That means for one month I was only paid my shift enhancement of about £200 instead of by basic pay. £200 x 12 = 2400/year according to the new rules. As I'm on mat leave I have to submit wage slips 6 months prior to my leaving and sadly that includes this wage slip. I'm not due back of mat leave until the end of April.

I would apply for a visit visa but as my husband has not property (lves rent free in his bosses shop), has no fixed income (he works commission only) and only has a verbal contract with his boss I don't have any evidence but my word he will return to Thaland at the end of the visa to apply for settlement. I don't think this will be enough of UKBA and I think there will be many more people in this position.

You are right that there are many more people in this situation. The government were aware that when they introduced the 18,600 GBP a year threshold something like 45% of new, or potential, applicants would be unable to meet the requirement.

So does this mean that a family visitor visa is next to impossible - except for millionaires, those whose spouse has a great job in Thailand and own house in Thailand or those entire families that are only going to the UK for a holiday etc? If it is this, I guess Saudi sid will be signing the petition!

Or,

Will enough funds to survive for 6 months savings in the UK, plus a job income in excess of 18600 (or 22,400) + a return ticket (dated 6 month later) + a property rented for 6 months (to demonstrate that there is accomodation on return) in Thailand be sufficient for a family visitor visa?

Thanks.

Edited November 15, 2012 by AngryParent

[7by7]

Looking at past applications is not really relevant; these new regulations only came into force on the 9th July this year and have changed the situation completely.

Prior to 9/7/12 there would have been no need for an expat returning to the UK to even think about a visit visa for their spouse first; they could have applied for a settlement visa and if the returnee did not have an immediate job on their return or sufficient savings to tide them over then they could have sought financial aid from a third party, i.e. friends or family.

This is no longer possible. Unless the expat has been earning at least £18,600 p.a. whilst working abroad and has a definite job offer with a salary of at least £18,600 p.a. starting within 3 months of their return, then they will not meet the new financial requirement unless they have savings in excess of £16,000 which will reduce the income required on a sliding scale.

So an expat who cannot meet this requirement; not because they don't have a job with sufficient income to return to but because of the ludicrous requirement to have been earning the equivalent of at least £18,600 p.a. whilst in, for example, Thailand, will have no choice other than to return alone, leaving their spouse and probably children, who will be British citizens, behind for at least 6 month.

I don't know what the average expat earns in Thailand, but £18,600 p.a. at today's exchange rate, 48.65, comes to over 75,000 baht per month. How many expats earn that in Thailand? I don't know. I do seem to remember an advert from the UKBA wishing to recruit staff for the visa section; if memory serves the salary offered was below this figure!

The question here is not "I am an expat returning to the UK, can my spouse apply for a visit visa so they can spend 6 months in the UK with me while I build up 6 months earnings to satisfy the financial requirement for a settlement visa?" The answer to that is "Yes." Anyone anywhere can apply for any type of UK visa at any time.

The important question is "Will she be successful?"

An expat living and working in Thailand, or anywhere, would not have much of a problem; provided they too were returning to Thailand.

The problem comes when the British spouse isn't. The old stumbling block of 'reason to return.'

Before we were married my wife applied for a visit visa so she could come to the UK, meet my parents and see how she liked it here. Her daughter, then 9, applied too.

Despite us providing evidence that she had a job and that her daughter was due back at school on a certain date; she was refused on 'reason to return' grounds. In those days you could actually talk to the ECOs, and the one concerned told me that in his opinion once in the UK with me she would want to stay.

That attitude was common before the changes to the settlement rules. With these new rules ensuring that families are going to have to be separated for at least 6 months when the British spouse returns to the UK, it can only be more prevalent.

Therefore my gut feeling is that anyone in AngryParent's position, i.e. an expat returning home, who wants his family with him while he meets the idiotic 6 months requirement will be very lucky if their spouse does get a visit visa.

Even if they do, there is the expense of a visit visa application, flight from Thailand to the UK, return to Thailand, applying for settlement and then flying back to the UK. An unnecessary expense forced upon people by the government.

These new rules, especially the financial requirements, are ill thought out, break up families,encourage visa fraud and whilst devastating to families will have no effect whatsoever on the government's aim of significantly reducing immigration.

Most immigrants are economic ones, i.e coming to the UK to work under the PBS. These new financial requirements don't apply to them; they simply have to show that they can support and accommodate themselves and their families without recourse to public funds!

How is that fair?.

Edited November 15, 2012 by 7by7

[AngryParent]

Looking at past applications is not really relevant; these new regulations only came into force on the 9th July this year and have changed the situation completely.

Prior to 9/7/12 there would have been no need for an expat returning to the UK to even think about a visit visa for their spouse first; they could have applied for a settlement visa and if the returnee did not have an immediate job on their return or sufficient savings to tide them over then they could have sought financial aid from a third party, i.e. friends or family.

This is no longer possible. Unless the expat has been earning at least £18,600 p.a. whilst working abroad and has a definite job offer with a salary of at least £18,600 p.a. starting within 3 months of their return, then they will not meet the new financial requirement unless they have savings in excess of £16,000 which will reduce the income required on a sliding scale.

So an expat who cannot meet this requirement; not because they don't have a job with sufficient income to return to but because of the ludicrous requirement to have been earning the equivalent of at least £18,600 p.a. whilst in, for example, Thailand, will have no choice other than to return alone, leaving their spouse and probably children, who will be British citizens, behind for at least 6 month.

I don't know what the average expat earns in Thailand, but £18,600 p.a. at today's exchange rate, 48.65, comes to over 75,000 baht per month. How many expats earn that in Thailand? I don't know. I do seem to remember an advert from the UKBA wishing to recruit staff for the visa section; if memory serves the salary offered was below this figure!

The question here is not "I am an expat returning to the UK, can my spouse apply for a visit visa so they can spend 6 months in the UK with me while I build up 6 months earnings to satisfy the financial requirement for a settlement visa?" The answer to that is "Yes." Anyone anywhere can apply for any type of UK visa at any time.

The important question is "Will she be successful?"

An expat living and working in Thailand, or anywhere, would not have much of a problem; provided they too were returning to Thailand.

The problem comes when the British spouse isn't. The old stumbling block of 'reason to return.'

Before we were married my wife applied for a visit visa so she could come to the UK, meet my parents and see how she liked it here. Her daughter, then 9, applied too.

Despite us providing evidence that she had a job and that her daughter was due back at school on a certain date; she was refused on 'reason to return' grounds. In those days you could actually talk to the ECOs, and the one concerned told me that in his opinion once in the UK with me she would want to stay.

That attitude was common before the changes to the settlement rules. With these new rules ensuring that families are going to have to be separated for at least 6 months when the British spouse returns to the UK, it can only be more prevalent.

Therefore my gut feeling is that anyone in AngryParent's position, i.e. an expat returning home, who wants his family with him while he meets the idiotic 6 months requirement will be very lucky if their spouse does get a visit visa.

Even if they do, there is the expense of a visit visa application, flight from Thailand to the UK, return to Thailand, applying for settlement and then flying back to the UK. An unnecessary expense forced upon people by the government.

These new rules, especially the financial requirements, are ill thought out, break up families,encourage visa fraud and whilst devastating to families will have no effect whatsoever on the government's aim of significantly reducing immigration.

Most immigrants are economic ones, i.e coming to the UK to work under the PBS. These new financial requirements don't apply to them; they simply have to show that they can support and accommodate themselves and their families without recourse to public funds!

How is that fair?.

Thank you 7by7 - this is a really appreciated post. No, it is not fair and I hope it changes soon. TIll then, all I can do is keep plodding along working towards either EEA (not that easy as Ireland is in dire straights) or a very expensive and psychologically taxing 6-9 month trip.

It is so unfair, that my son and I (both British citizens) are effectively PROHIBITED from going home - and as you know in Thailand one is an ALIEN with no rights. If it was not for this immigration law, the entire family could have been in the UK and set up and I would not be an angry parent!

Thanks again.

[Sianey]

I would apply for a visit visa but as my husband has not property (lves rent free in his bosses shop), has no fixed income (he works commission only) and only has a verbal contract with his boss I don't have any evidence but my word he will return to Thaland at the end of the visa to apply for settlement. I don't think this will be enough of UKBA and I think there will be many more people in this position.

So, he will haev dificulty proving he will return. However, that same difficulty would have been there prior to the new rules also! Proving there is a reason to return has always been the main stumbling block worldwide.

Yes but under the old rules I would have been able to apply for settlement visa right away. No need for a family visit visa. However with the new rules 1 months unpaid holiday means I have I delay my application. Whether or not I have to get a full 6 months wage slips after I return from mat leave to submit I'm not sure. But as I'm not due back to work until end of April it's likely to be the end of next year before he joins us. I doubt I'll return to Thailand before then. The cost of the flight and dealing with and year old baby on a long haul flight is a real issue.

This is another issue with the visit visa as the cost of living in the UK is going up a settlement visa and flights are expensive enough without trying to find the money to pay for the extra flight over. You also lose the option of the other partner being able to work those 6 months which I suppose may also put further strain on finances.

I'm not really sure if I'm on topic anymore, but there my musings about it anyway!

[cuddleypete]

Looking at past applications is not really relevant; these new regulations only came into force on the 9th July this year and have changed the situation completely.

Prior to 9/7/12 there would have been no need for an expat returning to the UK to even think about a visit visa for their spouse first; they could have applied for a settlement visa and if the returnee did not have an immediate job on their return or sufficient savings to tide them over then they could have sought financial aid from a third party, i.e. friends or family.

This is no longer possible. Unless the expat has been earning at least £18,600 p.a. whilst working abroad and has a definite job offer with a salary of at least £18,600 p.a. starting within 3 months of their return, then they will not meet the new financial requirement unless they have savings in excess of £16,000 which will reduce the income required on a sliding scale.

So an expat who cannot meet this requirement; not because they don't have a job with sufficient income to return to but because of the ludicrous requirement to have been earning the equivalent of at least £18,600 p.a. whilst in, for example, Thailand, will have no choice other than to return alone, leaving their spouse and probably children, who will be British citizens, behind for at least 6 month.

I don't know what the average expat earns in Thailand, but £18,600 p.a. at today's exchange rate, 48.65, comes to over 75,000 baht per month. How many expats earn that in Thailand? I don't know. I do seem to remember an advert from the UKBA wishing to recruit staff for the visa section; if memory serves the salary offered was below this figure!

The question here is not "I am an expat returning to the UK, can my spouse apply for a visit visa so they can spend 6 months in the UK with me while I build up 6 months earnings to satisfy the financial requirement for a settlement visa?" The answer to that is "Yes." Anyone anywhere can apply for any type of UK visa at any time.

The important question is "Will she be successful?"

An expat living and working in Thailand, or anywhere, would not have much of a problem; provided they too were returning to Thailand.

The problem comes when the British spouse isn't. The old stumbling block of 'reason to return.'

Before we were married my wife applied for a visit visa so she could come to the UK, meet my parents and see how she liked it here. Her daughter, then 9, applied too.

Despite us providing evidence that she had a job and that her daughter was due back at school on a certain date; she was refused on 'reason to return' grounds. In those days you could actually talk to the ECOs, and the one concerned told me that in his opinion once in the UK with me she would want to stay.

That attitude was common before the changes to the settlement rules. With these new rules ensuring that families are going to have to be separated for at least 6 months when the British spouse returns to the UK, it can only be more prevalent.

Therefore my gut feeling is that anyone in AngryParent's position, i.e. an expat returning home, who wants his family with him while he meets the idiotic 6 months requirement will be very lucky if their spouse does get a visit visa.

Even if they do, there is the expense of a visit visa application, flight from Thailand to the UK, return to Thailand, applying for settlement and then flying back to the UK. An unnecessary expense forced upon people by the government.

These new rules, especially the financial requirements, are ill thought out, break up families,encourage visa fraud and whilst devastating to families will have no effect whatsoever on the government's aim of significantly reducing immigration.

Most immigrants are economic ones, i.e coming to the UK to work under the PBS. These new financial requirements don't apply to them; they simply have to show that they can support and accommodate themselves and their families without recourse to public funds!

How is that fair?.

Great post 7by7

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory baiting posts have been removed.

[jambco984]

Grim times right now, saying that I dont see a light at the end of the tunnel either :-(

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect App

[AngryParent]

Grim times right now, saying that I dont see a light at the end of the tunnel either :-(

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect App

I wonder, if we were all to write an email to the BBC, outlining our story and to synchronize the time and day of sending, would it have a major impact if say 500 emails were sent at the same time with tragic stories.

Edited November 16, 2012 by AngryParent

[Saudi Sid]

From 7by7

These new rules...........will have no effect whatsoever on the government's aim of significantly reducing immigration

From Visa Plus, the Ex UKBA official

The government were aware that when they introduced the 18,600 GBP a year threshold something like 45% of new, or potential, applicants would be unable to meet the requirement.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Saudi Sid

[Saudi Sid]

"I am an expat returning to the UK, can my spouse apply for a visit visa so they can spend 6 months in the UK with me while I build up 6 months earnings to satisfy the financial requirement for a settlement visa?" The answer to that is "Yes." Anyone anywhere can apply for any type of UK visa at any time.

Thank you. Just as me, Marston, 11 of my friends and a plethora of others did.

The important question is "Will she be successful?"

This is an age old question - irrespective of the news laws. Agreed?

Before we were married my wife applied for a visit visa so she could come to the UK, meet my parents and see how she liked it here. Her daughter, then 9, applied too.

Despite us providing evidence that she had a job and that her daughter was due back at school on a certain date; she was refused on 'reason to return' grounds.

And I am sure that is the question at the forefront of every ECO's mind - then and now.

And what is the % of visit visas that are refused, both in BKK and worldwide? Personally, you are one of the very few people I have discussed visas with who's spouse was refused a visit visa.

Anyone else reading ever had a visit visa refused due to this reason - both recently and going back years?

Cheers

Edited November 16, 2012 by Saudi Sid

[7by7]

From 7by7

These new rules...........will have no effect whatsoever on the government's aim of significantly reducing immigration

From Visa Plus, the Ex UKBA official

The government were aware that when they introduced the 18,600 GBP a year threshold something like 45% of new, or potential, applicants would be unable to meet the requirement.

Family migration accounts for approximately 10% of total immigration into the UK; not counting EEA nationals and their families.

45% of 10% is 4.5%!

If you think that is significant then you must be using a different dictionary to me!

You seem to have completely missed my point on visit visas.

I started to type out another detailed explanation but then decided against it as it is all in previous posts in this or other topics if you care to read them.

BTW, when did your wife obtain her visit visa?

Were you living and working in Thailand* at the time; living and working in the UK or had been living and working in Thailand* and were now returning to the UK to live and work?

*Or some other country outside the EEA.

Approximately 90% of family visit visa applications in Thailand before these changes were successful; worldwide the figure is lower.

How many of those were from spouse's of British citizens there is no way of telling.

We will have to wait and see what effect these new rules have on this issue rate; I expect it to go down. Although not every family visitor is a foreign spouse visiting their UK based partner, of course.

Edited November 16, 2012 by 7by7

[Saudi Sid]

These new rules...........will have no effect whatsoever on the government's aim of significantly reducing immigration

4.5%!

...... 'Significant'? I dont think I said that, 7by7. 4.5% equates to 'no effect whatsoever' then, ey?

then you must be using a different dictionary to me!

And if 'theese new rules' will have 'no effect whatsoever' on reducing immigration then why sign a petition? As, logically, you are saying that the migration numbers won't change which, by definition, indicates there is no issue.

Were you living and working in Thailand* at the time; living and working in the UK or had been living and working in Thailand* and were now returning to the UK to live and work?*Or some other country outside the EEA.I

Likewise, I started to type out another detailed explanation but then decided against it as it is all in previous posts in this or other topics if you care to read them

#3, for example

Edited November 16, 2012 by Saudi Sid

[7by7]

These new rules...........will have no effect whatsoever on the government's aim of significantly reducing immigration

4.5%!

...... 'Significant'? I dont think I said that, 7by7. 4.5% equates to 'no effect whatsoever' then, ey?

You didn't say significant; I did:

"These new rules, especially the financial requirements, are ill thought out, break up families,encourage visa fraud and whilst devastating to families will have no effect whatsoever on the government's aim of significantly reducing immigration."

You do know what "significantly" means, don't you?

it is all in previous posts in this or other topics if you care to read them

#3, for example

Apologies, I missed that post.

You say that your wife has British citizenship, so she must have been living in the UK for at least three years.

Totally different situation then to the one those applying after the introduction of this new requirement; which makes what you say you and your wife did a lot more difficult, for reasons I have previously explained.

You chose to do it that way, although there was no need for you to do so in those days; these days couples have had that choice removed and are forced to do it.

They are forced into either a minimum 6 month separation or the hassle and expense of traveling to the UK, staying for 6 months, traveling back to Thailand to apply for settlement and then returning to the UK once it's granted; assuming they do actually get their visit visa!

Even though the British spouse may very well have a secure job offer with a large enough income to start when they arrive back in the UK, or their family are willing and able to support them until they do find a job.

You think that's right and fair; I don't.

I don't want to seem arrogant or presumptuous, but I think it's obvious which of us most would agree with.

[Saudi Sid]

You do know what " no effect whatsoever" means, don't you? 4.5% does not equate to '" no effect whatsoever" . 0% does though.

Apologies, I missed that post.

That's ok/

You chose to do it that way, although there was no need for you to do so in those days; these days couples have had that choice removed and are forced to do it.

Just as Angry can do it this way - no need, as you say, for the foreced seperation - finally, thanks for confirming. I know you said you and he had a 'run in' on the EEA thread but you coulod have just said this a while ago and put the poor reactive Git's mind at rest.

They are forced into either a minimum 6 month separation or the hassle and expense of traveling to the UK, staying for 6 months, traveling back to Thailand to apply for settlement and then returning to the UK once it's granted;

Well the hassle and expense of doing that 6 month run TOGETHER is a dam_n sight better that splitting a family! You got to admin that. And even if they lost their choice of getting a settlement off the bat, at least they can still do it this way (which in my opinion is better as they will have a proper, stable job and income ahead of bringing family over - well done Cameron!)

You think that's right and fair; I don't.

And we had a good debate - you convinced me on one point on the other thread, Angry has a way out. We made progress and learnt a little more about the lives of expats. Good one, thanks and it was enjoyable. You aint a bad old stick 7by7. Good luck witht he move too, by the way and the offer in the PM is still open chap.

I don't want to seem arrogant or presumptuous, but I think it's obvious which of us most would agree with.

Correct - 11:3 on the votes in your favour. Your town council beckons

[Saudi Sid]

Angry, you have your answer despite your latest rant on the other thread. I also suggsted that you may be able to seek fuding for a PGCE to become a proper Teacher. Hope it all works out for you and your wife applies for the visit visa to accompany you when you are seeking a job for 6 months. Do remember to include copies of your child's brit passport and birth cert in the appllication as well as adaquate health insurance.

Good luck again.

[agrg]

And in your situation you could:

Apply for some jobs from Thailand

• Apply for your wife's visit visa (you have stated you have the means)
  
• Both of you return to the UK (You could even return a couple or 3 weeks early and continue the job search)
  
• You secure your position and start work
  
• After 6 months together your wife returns to Thailand (with a full application) and applies for settlement.
  
• You seperate for the time it takes to grant the settlement visa.
  
• Your wife retruns to the UK and is entering into a stable, employed and self sufficent household.
  

So, you are seperated for the time it takes her to be granted settlement, you could even take holidays and join her for part of the trip. Its simple, there is no 'forced seperation'.

This is, as was expained to you, exactly what Marston and I did and a plethora of others.

My understanding was that as part of the "genuine and subsisting" requirement you had to be living together;

If your relationship is genuine and subsisting we would expect you to be able to show evidence that you:

• are in a current, long-term relationship;
  
• are living together with your partner
  

And as you can't make the application as a visitor in the uk surely the sponsor would have to travel to thailand to be with the partner at the time of application?

[Saudi Sid]

And in your situation you could:

Apply for some jobs from Thailand

• Apply for your wife's visit visa (you have stated you have the means)
  
• Both of you return to the UK (You could even return a couple or 3 weeks early and continue the job search)
  
• You secure your position and start work
  
• After 6 months together your wife returns to Thailand (with a full application) and applies for settlement.
  
• You seperate for the time it takes to grant the settlement visa.
  
• Your wife retruns to the UK and is entering into a stable, employed and self sufficent household.
  

So, you are seperated for the time it takes her to be granted settlement, you could even take holidays and join her for part of the trip. Its simple, there is no 'forced seperation'.

This is, as was expained to you, exactly what Marston and I did and a plethora of others.

My understanding was that as part of the "genuine and subsisting" requirement you had to be living together;

If your relationship is genuine and subsisting we would expect you to be able to show evidence that you:

• are in a current, long-term relationship;
  
• are living together with your partner
  

And as you can't make the application as a visitor in the uk surely the sponsor would have to travel to thailand to be with the partner at the time of application?

Yes, your bullets are correct. Though the sponsor could, rightly, say that he returned to the UK to secure employment, his wife visited, liked it and decided that the UK would work for the family. When my wife applied I was in the UK. We had been in in a secure relationship for 7 years and had lived together for 6.5 years.

Good luck.

[agrg]

Saudi, when did you actually make the application though? as im sure you are aware things have been shaken up recently. The situation you described is mine, but the ukba clearly states that you cannot "switch" from a visitors visa in the UK and that you must be living together for them to consider the application. I understand that some see the ukba like being the pirates code "more guidlines than actual rules" we are putting 800 quid at stake and think it best to do it by the book.

[7by7]

Saudi, when did you actually make the application though?

As he says his wife is now a British citizen it must have been at least three years ago.

You are correct, the settlement rules for spouses, partners and other family members changed considerably w.e.f. 9/7/12; saying that something was easy three or more years ago does not mean it will be easy today.

Three years ago couples where the returning British partner had been working outside the EEA had several options to choose from, as I explained earlier.

Now they have just two. Try for a 6 month visit visa, which may very well be refused on reason to return grounds or suffer a minimum 6 month separation.

Saudi Sid keeps banging on about returning expats having to find a job; but forgets that this also applies to those who do have a definite job with a salary at or above the minimum required level upon their return to the UK.

You are correct; visit visas cannot be switched to settlement in the UK; the visitor will have to return home and apply for settlement there. This is the main reason why I feel a visit visa will now be difficult to obtain in these circumstances; the ECO will feel that there is a good chance that the foreign spouse will not return home after 6 months to apply for settlement but will simply remain in the UK illegally.

But we will have to wait and see the results of real applications from people in this situation to be sure.

BTW, there is no minimum time a married couple need to have been living together before the foreign spouse can apply for settlement in the UK. There is, though, for unmarried partners; two years.

[7by7]

You do know what " no effect whatsoever" means, don't you? 4.5% does not equate to '" no effect whatsoever" . 0% does though

Your debating skills are amply illustrated by your repeated concentration of only half of the sentence to make your point. You need to include the other half; "on the government's aim of significantly reducing immigration" to get the actual meaning.

But I will concede that saying a "an extremely minimal effect," or "no significant effect" may have made it easier for you to understand.