Family Visit Visa Prior To Spouse Visa - Possible?

[Saudi Sid]

Now they have just two. Try for a 6 month visit visa, which may very well be refused on reason to return grounds or suffer a minimum 6 month separation.

So, there is no reason to break up a family as they can apply for a 6 month visa IF the the Brit spouse needs to return to find a job.

7by7 keeps banging on about being refused on grounds to return. However, this has ALWAYS been the case irrespective of the new rules. Indeed, 7by7's own wife was refused for this very reason for her first visit visa application. However, his situation is quite different as he had never lived in Thailand or with his wife - if you know what I mean. He had a f job as a self employed, hourly paid, driving instructor in the UK.

But we will have to wait and see the results of real applications from people in this situation to be sure, other than that its just speculation.

[endure]

Can you stop the bickering please.

[agrg]

Now they have just two. Try for a 6 month visit visa, which may very well be refused on reason to return grounds or suffer a minimum 6 month separation.

So, there is no reason to break up a family as they can apply for a 6 month visa IF the the Brit spouse needs to return to find a job.

7by7 keeps banging on about being refused on grounds to return. However, this has ALWAYS been the case irrespective of the new rules. Indeed, 7by7's own wife was refused for this very reason for her first visit visa application. However, his situation is quite different as he had never lived in Thailand or with his wife - if you know what I mean. He had a f job as a self employed, hourly paid, driving instructor in the UK.

But we will have to wait and see the results of real applications from people in this situation to be sure, other than that its just speculation.

That's pretty personal and irrelevant. I would hope that i can avoid a refusal, and the more infomation i have about the process the less likley that is to happen. 7by7 has provided a lot of good information on the subject.

for instance i didn't know untill now that being refused on grounds to return was an issue, any tips to avoid this?

[Saudi Sid]

7by7 keeps banging on about being refused on grounds to return. However, this has ALWAYS been the case irrespective of the new rules. Indeed, 7by7's own wife was refused for this very reason for her first visit visa application. However, his situation is quite different as he had never lived in Thailand or with his wife - if you know what I mean

That's pretty personal and irrelevant.

Its all in the public domain, supplied by him on another thread.

for instance i didn't know untill now that being refused on grounds to return was an issue, any tips to avoid this?

Plenty but each case I know of is, quite obviously, pretty personal to the applicant.

Feel free to PM me and I'll tell you if you would prefer to discuss off forum.

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Edited November 17, 2012 by Saudi Sid

[7by7]

i didn't know untill now that being refused on grounds to return was an issue, any tips to avoid this?

Have a read of UK Visit Visa Basics.

When a couple live together in Thailand and are both visiting the UK and then both returning to Thailand, the Thai spouse should have little problem showing a reason to return; see above link.

When the Thai partner lives in Thailand and the British partner in the UK it is more difficult; but not insurmountable; see above link.

It is when they have been living together in Thailand and the British partner is returning to the UK to live, for whatever reason, that they will, in my opinion, have a problem.

Prior to 9/7/12, this problem did not exist as the Thai partner could simply apply for, and in most circumstances be granted, a settlement visa to accompany their British partner.

But the rule changes which came into effect on 9/7/12 have changed all that. Unless they meet the new financial requirements, the Thai partner will be refused settlement.

Even if the British partner has a definite job to start upon his return with an income above £18600 p.a., unless he has earned at least £1550 in Thailand in each and every one of the previous 6 months his wife will be refused a settlement visa.

So, unless they wish to be separated for at least 6 months, and remember they may have children together, then the Thai partner will need to apply for a visit visa, stay in the UK for 6 months then return to Thailand and apply for settlement.

But, and it's a big but, to get the visit visa she will have to convince the ECO that she will do this. She will have to convince the ECO that she and her husband will go to the hassle and expense of doing so, especially when there are children involved.

What arguments and evidence can she produce to sway the ECO? I don't know.

Will the ECO believe that they will do this, or will s/he think that once in the UK they wont bother and the wife will overstay her visit to remain in the UK with her husband and children?

I don't know, but my personal experience over several visit applications and from reading forums such as this and helping others with their applications is that ECOs tend to believe the worst, unless you can show them otherwise!

Read some of the posts on here about visa refusals if you don't believe me.

N.B. I have said 'British husband' and 'Thai wife' in the above for convenience, but of course the same applies for civil partners, for unmarried and same sex partners, for fiances and for prospective civil partners; regardless of the gender of the British and Thai partners, or indeed the nationality of the non EEA partner or which non EEA country they currently live in and are applying from. This is not just a Thai issue.

Edited November 18, 2012 by 7by7

[7by7]

7by7 keeps banging on about being refused on grounds to return. However, this has ALWAYS been the case irrespective of the new rules. Indeed, 7by7's own wife was refused for this very reason for her first visit visa application. However, his situation is quite different as he had never lived in Thailand or with his wife - if you know what I mean.

No, I don't know what you mean; kindly explain the highlighted remark.

[VisasPlus]

It's an interesting scenario. Both Saudi Sid and 7x7 have made valid points. Saudi Sid's comment - "So, there is no reason to break up a family as they can apply for a 6 month visa IF the the Brit spouse needs to return to find a job." - is, however, rather simplistic. Of course, they can apply for a visit visa, but that certainly does not mean that a visa will be issued. As 7x7 says, the reasons for return, on the part of the Thai applicant are very different when the UK sponsor is not returning too.

That said, I would be very happy to try to obtain a visit visa for an applicant in these circumstances. It would be a "family visit" application, attracting a right of appeal, and UKBA would have to defend any refusal decision at appeal. That would be interesting !

[Saudi Sid]

When the Thai partner lives in Thailand and the British partner in the UK it is more difficult; but not insurmountable

This is the exact situation when your partner had her visa refused, right?

It is when they have been living together in Thailand and the British partner is returning to the UK to live, for whatever reason, that they will, in my opinion, have a problem.

This is the exact situation when my wife had her visa granted, as did Marston's and 11 of my mates (4 of which since July this year)

So, unless they wish to be separated for at least 6 months, and remember they may have children together, then the Thai partner will need to apply for a visit visa, stay in the UK for 6 months then return to Thailand and apply for settlement.

And so I was right all along and Angry's ranting that I worked for the UKBA and was peddling misinformation are indeed wrong. I hope he takes notice now and he doesn't split his family up.

But, and it's a big but, to get the visit visa she will have to convince the ECO that she will do this. She will have to convince the ECO that she and her husband will go to the hassle and expense of doing so, especially when there are children involved.

This is not new and has always been the case (just as it was years ago when your wife was refused for whatever reason IE reason to return or the old age genuine relationship issue)

[Saudi Sid]

7by7 keeps banging on about being refused on grounds to return. However, this has ALWAYS been the case irrespective of the new rules. Indeed, 7by7's own wife was refused for this very reason for her first visit visa application. However, his situation is quite different as he had never lived in Thailand or with his wife - if you know what I mean.

No, I don't know what you mean; kindly explain the highlighted remark.

We were asked to stop bickering.

Lets do just that

[Saudi Sid]

It's an interesting scenario. Both Saudi Sid and 7x7 have made valid points. Saudi Sid's comment - "So, there is no reason to break up a family as they can apply for a 6 month visa IF the the Brit spouse needs to return to find a job." - is, however, rather simplistic. Of course, they can apply for a visit visa, but that certainly does not mean that a visa will be issued. As 7x7 says, the reasons for return, on the part of the Thai applicant are very different when the UK sponsor is not returning too.

That said, I would be very happy to try to obtain a visit visa for an applicant in these circumstances. It would be a "family visit" application, attracting a right of appeal, and UKBA would have to defend any refusal decision at appeal. That would be interesting !

It never has though - we can all apply but there has never been a guarantee (point in case 7by7s partner's refusal and others, I am sure).

The reason return issue has always been there - 25 years ago a Thai lass saved my life in a bus accident - I sponsored her to come for a holiday to the Uk - she was broke as a bum and so was I. We never thought she'd get a visa as she had zero reason to return, no job, no home etc. Still, come to London she did and ECO must have taken pity on us being so young and the situation. She's my best mate now, by the way haha.

I am sure that you have obtained visit visas for a plethora of applicants in the poster known as Angry's situation.

Anyway, alls well that ends well - at least the guy now knows he has an out. Cheers VisaPlus.

[VisasPlus]

I am sure that you have obtained visit visas for a plethora of applicants in the poster known as Angry's situation.

Not really, as this is whole new situation. We haven't really had the situation before where an applicant wants a settlement visa, but is forced to apply for a visit visa because the sponsor is not in a financial position to sponsor a settlement visa, they live together but the sponsor must return to UK, and the couple want to be together. There are also human rights implications, of course, but I doubt if an appeal could be won on those grounds alone.

[Saudi Sid]

Be interesting to see how it all works out with your first few applicants.

Aside, and I am wrong, but if the applicant is applying for a family visit visa and not the Settlement visa - how would anyone even know that they were being foreced into it? Quite simply, they know they wouldnt qualify so they just apply for the visit visa, sort out their affairs and then apply for settlment.

Of course, you would know as an agent as your client would likely have sort your advice etc but John public doing the application on his own wouldn't be informing anyone unless, as you rightly say, it was refused and went to appeal.

By the way, you got a mate of mine a visit visa for his mrs a while back - chap working on the rigs. Before the rulew change. By all accounts a sterling job.

Cheers

[VisasPlus]

Aside, and I am wrong, but if the applicant is applying for a family visit visa and not the Settlement visa - how would anyone even know that they were being foreced into it? Quite simply, they know they wouldnt qualify so they just apply for the visit visa, sort out their affairs and then apply for settlment.

Of course, you would know as an agent as your client would likely have sort your advice etc but John public doing the application on his own wouldn't be informing anyone unless, as you rightly say, it was refused and went to appeal.

Cheers

It will depend on how the application is presented. Applicants could lie, and say that they are both returning after a 6 month visit to the UK. Or, they could tell the truth, and say that only the Thai partner is coming back after the visit. Either way, the ECO now knows that the goalposts have now been moved, and some applicants who really want to settle in the UK are unable to qualify, and will be trying to circumvent the rules by obtaining visit visas.

Good to hear that we were able to help your friend.

[7by7]

It is when they have been living together in Thailand and the British partner is returning to the UK to live, for whatever reason, that they will, in my opinion, have a problem.

This is the exact situation when my wife had her visa granted, as did Marston's and 11 of my mates (4 of which since July this year)

The situation changed completely in July; the experiences of those who moved back to the UK prior to that has absolutely no relevance to the current situation. As VisasPlus says, the goalposts have been moved and the ECOs are well aware of that.

(4 of which since July this year)

Really? Four in four and a half months? All had to move back to the UK, all applied for visit visas for their spouses, all been issued, all in four and a half months?

Well, if you say so.

What evidence did they present that convinced the ECO the foreign (Thai?) spouse would return home after 6 months; leaving spouse, and children, if any, behind for up to three months while their settlement applications were being processed?

Such information would be a great help to the OP and other members here if you can post it.

[Saudi Sid]

Aside, and I am wrong, but if the applicant is applying for a family visit visa and not the Settlement visa - how would anyone even know that they were being foreced into it? Quite simply, they know they wouldnt qualify so they just apply for the visit visa, sort out their affairs and then apply for settlment.

Of course, you would know as an agent as your client would likely have sort your advice etc but John public doing the application on his own wouldn't be informing anyone unless, as you rightly say, it was refused and went to appeal.

Cheers

It will depend on how the application is presented. Applicants could lie, and say that they are both returning after a 6 month visit to the UK. Or, they could tell the truth, and say that only the Thai partner is coming back after the visit. Either way, the ECO now knows that the goalposts have now been moved, and some applicants who really want to settle in the UK are unable to qualify, and will be trying to circumvent the rules by obtaining visit visas.

Good to hear that we were able to help your friend.

Desperate people will do desperate things, I guess. Hell, if I had to split from my wife for 6 months I'd move hell and high water!

Yes, you made them very happy. Not sure how it will work out for him in future though, he'll be in the North sea, earning about 150-180k USD but only working 6 months and being paid 6 ofthe 12 when they come to apply for settlement. Then you'll have you work cut out!

Thanks for the clear ffeedback too, by the way

Edited November 18, 2012 by Saudi Sid

[Saudi Sid]

What evidence did they present that convinced the ECO the foreign (Thai?) spouse would return home after 6 months; leaving spouse, and children, if any, behind for up to three months while their settlement applications were being processed?

I havent discussed all in detail though I will- but what I do know is 2 didn't say they had any intention of applying for a settlement visa - applied as a family holiday and only one of them intends to later apply for settlement - the other thinks the UK is bust and broken and is jacking it in.I say go play with the traffic.

Another one has no intention of leaving her kids in the UK alone. And the other is a medical doctor, comes from a good family, owns property and really has no reason to disappear and run away - ECOs are not stupid.

I think , though I may be wrong, that the ECOs tend to have trouble believing the reason to remain is present when Thai women meet and marry a farang whom A: They have never lived with In Thailand (and in one of those wham bam quick marriages - maybe online or mail order) B: When the women is a single mother or, perhaps, childless but divorced an getting past her Thai cultural sell by date C: Financially dependant upon the Farang for handouts and support. or D: A young'un marying a desperate for a visa. They tend to view those kind of relationships as based on utility. Now, I am not saying they are wrong - the ECOs are so dont shoot the messenger - its just my opinion. I understand that farangs sometime want to quickly marry an get some companionship and the Thai women wants some security, economic stability and escape Thailand. Thailand is unforgiving as we all know when you are at the lower end of system.

Hell, if I was a woman alone in Thailand with a kid, no money an little to keep me there, I'd be looking for a John to marry and get some stability. Id maybe go for a visit visa first and see if I could get along and try it out. I might even go for a quick marriage and settlement and see if I liked my John when I got there. The alternatives aint pretty in Thailand.

But, what do I know....

Edited November 18, 2012 by Saudi Sid

[7by7]

I await your further response on their applications with interest when you have made them up received them.

But from what you have said so far it appears at least one of them lied on their application about the reason for their visit.

I am confused by what you mean when you say that one of them comes from a 'good family.' Am I right that you mean rich? If so, do you think that she would have received and deserved, special treatment because of this? If you do; you're wrong on both counts.

The meaning of your earlier remark about my relationship, "However, his situation is quite different as he had never lived in Thailand or with his wife - if you know what i (sic) mean" is now very clear. You obviously mean that we fall into your category A, as do all the other couples where the British husband never lived in Thailand; which are the majority.

As is always the case when the prejudiced show their true colours; you are totally wrong.

Even if a couple have met online or through an agency, which you refer to as 'mail order'; who are you to pass judgment on them?

More and more British couples meet online or through agencies these days, do you judge them as harshly?

Your other categories display equal ignorance, and this whole section of your post is an insult to the vast majority of members here.

Even if any couple do fall into one of your categories, who are you to judge them? If they are both happy, good for them!

But, what do I know....

Not a lot, by the look of things.

You did get one thing right, though. ECOs aren't stupid.

They are also not interested in how a couple met or whether or not one or both of them come from what you would class as a 'good family.'

They're not even that interested in the reasons for the relationship; just that the relationship is real and subsisting.

Edited November 18, 2012 by 7by7

[Saudi Sid]

We were asked to stop bickering.

Lets do just that

I await your further response on their applications with interest when you have made them up received them.

Am I right that you mean rich? If so, do you think that she would have received and deserved, special treatment because of this? If you do; you're wrong on both counts.

As is always the case when the prejudiced show their true colours; you are totally wrong.

who are you to pass judgment on them?

do you judge them as harshly?

Your other categories display equal ignorance,

who are you to judge them?

And again

We were asked to stop bickering.

Lets do just that

The OP has his answer, he doesn't need to split his family, lets draw a line under this now 7by7 ....its going nowhere.

Thank you VisaPlus.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Saudi Sid

[7by7]

Yes, the OP has his answer; his wife can apply for a visit visa to spend 6 months in the UK with him whilst satisfies the income requirement and then return to Thailand for up to three months while her settlement application is processed.

She can apply; but whether she will be granted one is the question. I feel it is unlikely for the reasons already stated.

[Saudi Sid]

The OP can now make an informed choice - he can take what I have said with regards how I did it prior to the rules changing. How Marston and a number of my friends did it post rule change (and keep in mind that all were succesful, if he wishes)

He can also take on board what you have said and the doubts you have that she will be granted a visa (and keep in mind that your wife had her visa refused years ago as she was unable to prove reasonable grounds to return)

She can apply; but whether she will be granted one is the question. I feel it is unlikely for the reasons already stated.

.

And, he can also take on board the ex-UKBA offical and now Thai based visa agent's willingness to take on such a case (and keep in mind that he neither takes on cases which he doesn't think he can add value to or reach a sucessful outcome)

That said, I would be very happy to try to obtain a visit visa for an applicant in these circumstances. It would be a "family visit" application, attracting a right of appeal, and UKBA would have to defend any refusal decision at appeal. That would be interesting !

Angry is over 21 and I suspect he will do what's best for him and his family.

Either way, we all wish his the very best of British and a successful outcome.

The End.

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Edited November 20, 2012 by Saudi Sid