Where's There's Smoke There's ...

[David48]

Where's there's Smoke there's probably a Thai making charcoal … Thai style

Many of you have bought it, some of you hate how it’s made.

So here is a little insight into the making of Charcoal by the typical Thai family.

Mods … may it rest here for a few days for comment in the General before shipping it off to the Farming Forum, or the like?

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[David48]

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At the moment I’m staying at the gf’s parents Farm and the neighbour makes a living by buying in wood, removing the moisture, creates a heap of smoke and produces the bag of charcoal that you see at the local market.

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The joy of having a Charcoal maker right next door ...

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[CharlesGrady]

Lung cancer coming up

[payak]

removing the moisture should be easy, they are well versed at bleeding things dry

[David48]

No enterprise is complete without meeting the crew ...

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Neighbour's Brother-in-Law . .... Neighbour Nong

The B-I-L is apparently challenged intellectually (from birth, not job related) and it would take a strong man to overcome that working environment.

Making charcoal with this method is quite a good earner for the Thais ... but with questionable environmental issues.

The economics of the business in a later post.

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[NeverSure]

Well, you could move to the West where that wouldn't be legal. He'd have to install a few million dollars worth of scrubbers to clean the air before it exited a 200 foot tall stack.

But then, you'd also have to get permission to change the color of your house, or to take a leak.

Just sayin'.

[David48]

Well, you could move to the West where that wouldn't be legal. He'd have to install a few million dollars worth of scrubbers to clean the air before it exited a 200 foot tall stack.

But then, you'd also have to get permission to change the color of your house, or to take a leak.

Just sayin'.

Ain't that the truth.

How the west makes it ...

http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/28129-how-its-made-charcoal-video.htm

[David48]

The fire from a distance

Up close with the smoke signals

The idea of the tin over the wood/material is to suppress the flame and reflect/retain the heat for removing the moisture.

They can burn 24/7 ... regardless of rain, hail or shine.

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[ThaidDown]

The particulates in the smoke cause just as many, if not more, long term effects as the chemicals in the smoke itself.

As far as ' He'd have to install a few million dollars worth of scrubbers' .. I don't know about in dollar terms but there are certainly members here that have installed a few million bahts worth of scrubbers..

[weegee]

I guess david48 doesnt have a mosquito problem around there.......Isnt it great to be able to burn rubbish though?

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[wayned]

Have a charcoal pit in my back yard. My FIL makes it for us and the neighbors. The only thing that bothers me the most is that they will cut down anything to make it. I've had to threathen my wife because she wants to cut down the shade trees in front of our house to make it. We have a stove with oven in the kitchen and two gas cookers outside, but she still insists on using charcoal to cook with almost everyday.

It's now the start of sugar cane harvesting season, from now until songkran. They burn the sigar before they harvest it and burn the firld after it has been harvested. Everything turns black for the next 4 months, lungs included!

[yermanee]

Something to think about regarding wood smoke : http://des.nh.gov/organization/divisions/air/cb/ceps/npsap/smoke.htm

Sitting around an open woodfire may be romantic but !!!!!!!

Yermanee

[Dancealot]

I was aware of dave' s moquito problems but this is going through extremes to fight them!

[loong]

Quite a few people around here make charcoal. Most of the time, it's a fair distance from the houses, but at the moment with the shift in wind, everything is getting covered in fine "soot" and I have an oily taste in my mouth.

Charcoal can be made more efficiently and with a lot less pollution in purpose built kilns. but that would require an investment. The gases from the kiln are piped to the fire below, where they will burn and create more heat.

[Rob8891]

When I saw the thread title I thought it was about the dynamic duo.... (where there's smoke there's a lot of talking)

Anyway, an interesting thread, and quite worring. We should be arriving in CM just in time for the burning season....now I've read what's in smoke, I'm looking forward to that even less.

[David48]

They do grade the charcoal though.

They first run it over a coarse sieve with the smaller particles falling through and these simply get collected and (around these parts) placed into an old (20kg) fish food bag and are then sold on as seconds at a cheaper price. The larger pieces are broken up.

The rest then get moved as shown in the video into the big pile which cools and is then bagged for sale.

Hot and dirty work ...

[KC 71]

My father in law built a kiln last year- good on him- hes the big boss

[Rooo]

moving to farming as requested by OP.

[David48]

Since we are in the Farming Forum now ... a little on the economics of the operation.

The sawmill off cuts of green wood with a high moisture content take the longest to turn into charcoal and are bought at B0.65 a Kilo ... yes ... less then a Baht a kilo ...

Green Wood

The better quality stuff is bought by the truck (Ute) load (no specific weight could be ascertained) for B 2,500.

[Dancealot]

Living in the forest people create a charcoal pit. A hole is digged and pipes(pic) are installed around for oxygen inlet. The burning simmering wood is covered by sand and wait 3-4 days for the desired result.

Usually this pit will be installed as far away from the house as possible still on the land they own...

Shipping in drywood is not an option here not because it is too expensive..(nice price assesment dave! ooh this truck looks just about B2500 ) but its simply one of the esarn fist rules being properly applied: Never pay for something that you can make or get for free.

I was absolutely intrigued when i discovered these pits and wanted to learn all about it. Next time i go i want to get involved more in these matters.

[IsaanAussie]

Quite a few people around here make charcoal. Most of the time, it's a fair distance from the houses, but at the moment with the shift in wind, everything is getting covered in fine "soot" and I have an oily taste in my mouth.

Charcoal can be made more efficiently and with a lot less pollution in purpose built kilns. but that would require an investment. The gases from the kiln are piped to the fire below, where they will burn and create more heat.

What Loong is talking about here is pyrolisis, burning with limited oxygen. Green house gas and carcinogenic substance emissions are a huge issue here. Using those same gases to consume the material rather than other fuel makes perfect sense to me. Every year thousands die of lung disease caused by burning charcoal in kitchen fires. The fact that people make a living producing materials for others to kill themselves has got to be wrong. Gasifier stoves and ovens are cheap and can be farm made. They use farm wastes as fuel, cook the food and are then returned to the soil or even used as replacements for things like cement.

I am currently far from a saint in all this and produce biochar for my compost and other things. I need to improve my technology to stop emissions as do all that are taking the "easy path" being used here. I use the excuse of priorities and a busy schedule, it isn't good enough. Guilty as charged sir!

[jamescollister]

Just a bit of a side line, if you want to grow things in your garden get soil from around the charcoal burner, mix it in to your soil and you will get soil that grows anything. Jim

[IsaanAussie]

Just a bit of a side line, if you want to grow things in your garden get soil from around the charcoal burner, mix it in to your soil and you will get soil that grows anything. Jim

Now I know what to give you for Christmas. A load of biochar, put it where ever you like!

[jamescollister]

Just a bit of a side line, if you want to grow things in your garden get soil from around the charcoal burner, mix it in to your soil and you will get soil that grows anything. Jim

Now I know what to give you for Christmas. A load of biochar, put it where ever you like!

It's all about how the Incas maybe Aztecs were able to grow root crops in the jungle. Jm

[loong]

Quite a few people around here make charcoal. Most of the time, it's a fair distance from the houses, but at the moment with the shift in wind, everything is getting covered in fine "soot" and I have an oily taste in my mouth.

Charcoal can be made more efficiently and with a lot less pollution in purpose built kilns. but that would require an investment. The gases from the kiln are piped to the fire below, where they will burn and create more heat.

What Loong is talking about here is pyrolisis, burning with limited oxygen. Green house gas and carcinogenic substance emissions are a huge issue here. Using those same gases to consume the material rather than other fuel makes perfect sense to me. Every year thousands die of lung disease caused by burning charcoal in kitchen fires. The fact that people make a living producing materials for others to kill themselves has got to be wrong. Gasifier stoves and ovens are cheap and can be farm made. They use farm wastes as fuel, cook the food and are then returned to the soil or even used as replacements for things like cement.

I am currently far from a saint in all this and produce biochar for my compost and other things. I need to improve my technology to stop emissions as do all that are taking the "easy path" being used here. I use the excuse of priorities and a busy schedule, it isn't good enough. Guilty as charged sir!

At least you realise that you could be taking a different approach to create less harm to the environment. You are likely to make changes in future. Most people simply don't care.

You shouldn't feel too guilty because you put a lot of effort into producing organic fertiliser in a way that releases a lot less greenhouse gases than conventional composting.

If the Earth could speak, I am sure that it would tell you that you do a lot more good than harm

[loong]

Just a bit of a side line, if you want to grow things in your garden get soil from around the charcoal burner, mix it in to your soil and you will get soil that grows anything. Jim

Absolutely right.

I've collected cartloads of soil from around the charcoal pits and it has really improved the soil quality.

[IsaanAussie]

Half past p1ssed at almost 9pm. Thanks guys, yeah I try hard but really there is a lot more that we all need to do. So with thanks and a smile, I make biochar and too much smoke that should be wood vinegar, I dont need more blown up my backside. What I need is more hours in a day and the occasional lucky break as do we all.

[jamescollister]

Half past p1ssed at almost 9pm. Thanks guys, yeah I try hard but really there is a lot more that we all need to do. So with thanks and a smile, I make biochar and too much smoke that should be wood vinegar, I dont need more blown up my backside. What I need is more hours in a day and the occasional lucky break as do we all.

The charcoal thing in soil is the real deal, from memory they discovered long tracks of land in South America with black loam soil, fit for root crops. It was made by putting in charcoal, again from memory further tests showed you need 4 tons of charcoal per acre to change the soil from clay based to good farming land. Jim

[David48]

Sorry gents ... I never did finish this story.

So, for those who wish to see the process the YouTube below is only 6 secs, hence not much bandwidth.

Who would be a charcoal maker with these conditions?

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[David48]

The balance of the photos from that morning ...

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EDIT, added 2 more photos

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Edited December 7, 2012 by David48