Recovering From Thrips And Tomato Spotted Wilt

[SundayAfternoon]

OK, so I posted previously about a problem I was having with my tomatoes, and I've figured out what the issue is - THRIPS and tomato spotted wilt virus.

My entire crop of tomatoes, chilis and bell peppers is wiped out. It's way too late to try and save any of them, and google search tells me that there is no way to recover from TSWV anyway. My only option is to throw the plants away and start again. Gutted.

I started the sad task yesterday, cutting down all the plants, bleaching the pots, trying to clean up. I have some questions though, for anyone with experience or knowledge about recoving from TSWV.

Where do the thrips come from? I didn't have them before, and my last (first ever) crop of tomatoes was really good.

Do I have to throw away my soil? Or disinfect it somehow? (I've been looking after it so carefully with vermicomplst and EM, that I'm loathe to just chuck it out, if there is nothing wrong with it). (I'ts the thrips that carry the virus afterall, NOT the soil). Ideas on that one?

If I buy new soil (the crappy stuff from the market, is there any way of knowing that the thrips didn't come along for the ride, and won't do so again?)

If I put new soil into clean containers, and put my containers back into my garden, is there any way of preventing the thrips from reinfesting future crops?

My garden backs onto a 12 foot perimiter fence, but behind that is jungle, and bamboo, and someone from the village has just started dumping their crap there too. This can't be helping my problem, but there's little I can do about it. The wind and leaves falling over my side, will bring with it, what it will.

I want to keep things organic... I realise that if I'd caught this problem early enough and just blitzed the crop with some heavy-duty insecticide I could probabaly have saved the entire crop, but I didn't catch it early enough - and - I would be VERY loathe to use such chemicals as it's totally against what I believe in. (I can see why commerical farmers do, though, as loosing an entire crop - so close to flowering and fruiting - is heart-wrenching, especially I suppose if your livelyhood depends on it!)

Being unable to buy diatomacious earth or beneficial nemantodes, and having NEVER seen a ladybug here in Thailand, I wonder what my organic options are, really? Realisticly spraying 2 xs per week with a soap spray isn't going to prevent infection, I know that from having just tried to control it - that it's imposible to get underside of all the leaves and ALL the thrips. And, anything that kills the 'bad' guys, like soap and chilli spray, will also kill the 'good' guys anyway.

So, what to do?

Any advice, please. As I'd like to get started replanting some seeds as soon as possible... I jsut don't want the next crop to go the same way.

[sometime]

Hi, Just one point do you alternate the plants in the soil every season?

[IsaanAussie]

SA,

That is dreadful news, such bad luck. Unfortunately TSW is viral and apparently live in the soil for years. As far as I know the only thing you can do is to plant things that aren't susceptible. If it has infected everything in the garden than you really have got a problem determining where the virus came from as a start. In purchased compost or potting mixes, or local materials in your compost, from other local outbreaks via the thrips, seedlings purchased. Until you can isolate the cause, any new soil may well become infected just as quickly. I think a trip to see the agricultural extension officer with samples of the plants would be a good idea. Perhaps you could ask them what can be done to clean up your "over the wall" jungle as well. That sounds like a reservoir for the disease and the thrips. Organic or not that would get "bombed" or burnt, or both, if it was me.

I have read your progress this year with great interest and again I am so sorry to see this result. Don't give up!

[soidog2]

More of above; do not give up.

The only reasonable thing to do is buy better seeds, changing the soil will not help; it will get reinfected.

Do not plant heirlooms, no disease resistance.

There are many good seeds bred with specific resistance for your problems. Seed packs have various letter designations signifying specific disease resistance; the more letters the better.

You must buy overseas,preferably in the US.

Learn about wood vinegar, it will help you control fungus & parasites.

Good Luck

[SundayAfternoon]

Thank you both.

You're right about not giving up, though I have a somewhat depressed vigour regarding my garden and am at a loss as to how to proceed, it is a minor setback and I will get over it... (Once I get over the loss of all that home-grown salsa I was going to eat these coming months!)

This is a learning process though, and I guess thrips is only one of many pests I shall enounter if I continue... every little bug and bacteria out there wants a bite out of my lunch! LOL

I'm thinking that the odds are somewhat stacked against me with my current set up. I can't control the wild environment over the wall, plus the heat and the humidity, and here's me trying not to grow... NOT THAI crops, but western hemisphere (or cool crops)! In a tropical climate, with heritage seeds (no disease resistance), in an a fairly unregulated, organic setting.

Now IF ONLY I HAD a temperature controlled greenhouse, or at least the protection of a poly-tunnel, that could keep the little blighters out...! Maybe that will become my next project - building mini-greenhouses. It sure would be easier to control the environment!

I think both your ideas of disease resistant varities is very good, as all of my seeds are heirloom at the moment (bought in the US). So, I shall bear that in mind, and perhaps look at buying some new seeds as my next step forward.

[sometime]

More of above; do not give up.

The only reasonable thing to do is buy better seeds, changing the soil will not help; it will get reinfected.

Do not plant heirlooms, no disease resistance.

There are many good seeds bred with specific resistance for your problems. Seed packs have various letter designations signifying specific disease resistance; the more letters the better.

You must buy overseas,preferably in the US.

Learn about wood vinegar, it will help you control fungus & parasites.

Good Luck

Thanks for the info on DONT plant Heirlooms, I did sorry to say problem was I got my seeds from the UK as it was an easy choice, they dont like the heat.

I came across this websitsite that has good infomation on tomatoes

http://www.tomatodirt.com/tomatoes-for-the-south.html

Now I am looking for a online site in the USA that will ship to Thailand

[IsaanAussie]

Hey SA,

Can I venture a suggestion? Why don't you look at companion planting to dissuade the pests. There must be something out there that thrips dont like! Soidog posted a picture of the wood vinegar commercially available that he referred to. You can grow heirlooms here it is just much harder. But you need to understand your environment first, and yours will be different to mine and SD2. There are two things of which you be certain, somebody near you has tried before, and somebody knows more than you about the local conditions and problems. Go talk to the Ag Ext guys or the local nursery people.

[thaimat]

Johnny's Seeds ships to Thailand, from Maine, USA. An excellent company, top quality seeds. I would take serious issue with the suggestion not to buy heirloom seeds. Seeds that Monsanto & friends have not manipulated the DNA of, such as true Heirlooms, are more resistant to disease than modified seeds are. A seed that has been modified to resist one disease will be much more susceptible to other diseases. Heirloom seeds are much more adaptable to different climates and growing conditions as well, though maybe not in the first generation. When growing with Heirlooms, save all the seeds from your first batch of fruit, no matter the condition of the fruit. Those seeds will be more suited to local conditions. Their adaptability is one of the big reasons people use Heirloom seeds.

[tracker1]

Spraying your tomatoes with milk or a mix of chille and garlic works in Australia so maybe its worth a try in Thailand. Google it anythings worth a try

[soidog2]

Johnny's Seeds ships to Thailand, from Maine, USA. An excellent company, top quality seeds. I would take serious issue with the suggestion not to buy heirloom seeds. Seeds that Monsanto & friends have not manipulated the DNA of, such as true Heirlooms, are more resistant to disease than modified seeds are. A seed that has been modified to resist one disease will be much more susceptible to other diseases. Heirloom seeds are much more adaptable to different climates and growing conditions as well, though maybe not in the first generation. When growing with Heirlooms, save all the seeds from your first batch of fruit, no matter the condition of the fruit. Those seeds will be more suited to local conditions. Their adaptability is one of the big reasons people use Heirloom seeds.

The beauty of a forum is in its members with different experiences & opinions.

I have been growing tomatoes in adverse Thai soil & weather conditions for about ten years.

I can state with a very high degree of confidence; heirloom tomatoes are unsuitable here.

Unless the OP is located in an unusually cool location; the plants will never set fruit.

At best he will achieve a nice green bush with never fruiting flowers.

Disease resistance is more elastic as it depends on local soil conditions.

I tried just about every conceivable Brandywine variety & many more; all a waste of time. Some grew very nice vegetatively but never set fruit. (nothing to save for the next gen.)

With proper heat & disease resistant seeds; very nice results can be achieved. Soil care is critical for good results. All the built in resistance will not help if your soil lacks organic material and is without good drainage.

Last; for serious growers, netting is a must, reduces daylight temperatures allows for better fruit set.

thaimat; if you have heirloom seeds successfully open pollinated in Thailand, please let us know the strain and can I buy some !!!

Picture from a small market in Grand Central Station, NYC. Passed by the other day.

[rice555]

Hello All, Tomato Growers Supply in FL. also mails seed here.

thaimat, if you google "GMO tomatoes", the first 3 links refute

what you said about tomatoes.

"GMO Tomatoes: Rise of the FrankenTomato

With all the uproar over genetically modified organisms, is there anything to worry about in TomatoLand? More specifically, is there any possibility that eating a slightly-too-perfect tomato means you’re actually eating worm or bacteria DNA?

In a word, no.

Technically speaking, all tomatoes are hybrids. Even the most cherished, oldest, and knobbiest heirloom tomato is a hybrid of the original South American fruit. Tomatoes are one of those plants that people love so much, we’ve been tinkering with its genetics basically since the plant was first cultivated in Peru and Central America before the fifteenth century. They’re kind of like the dog of the plant world.

Yet this doesn’t mean that modern hybrids are “genetically modified organisms,” or GMO tomatoes. In the strict sense of the word, a GMO crop is one whose genetic code has been enhanced with DNA from another organism or through gene transfer technology. A good example is the GMO corn that was created when scientists inserted genes from the Bacillus thuringiensis (BT) bacteria into the corn’s DNA, making it resistant to certain pests.

There was a GMO tomato introduced in 1994. It was the first commercially available GMO crop, and it made a huge media splash. If you were around at the time, you probably remember news stories about FrankenTomato and glow-in-the-dark spaghetti sauce. This particular tomato was called the FlavrSavr and was designed to have a long shelf-life. The problem was, the tomato itself kind of sucked, and it was eventually discontinued. As of 2012, there were no GMO tomatoes being grown commercially anywhere in North America or Europe, according to GMO Compass.

Instead, tomato breeding is done the good old fashioned way: by crossing and recrossing plants for desired traits, then stabilizing the genetics and producing seed.

OP or "H" seed are great for the home garden, but the LOS weather takes it's toll.

As with nematodes, I only know of one OP verity that has some resistance. The other thing about Hyb. vs OP is that

in most cases it's 8-10 days longer till harvest which can seem like a lifetime with the weather LOS.

rice555

[SundayAfternoon]

Johnny's Seeds ships to Thailand, from Maine, USA. An excellent company, top quality seeds. I would take serious issue with the suggestion not to buy heirloom seeds. Seeds that Monsanto & friends have not manipulated the DNA of, such as true Heirlooms, are more resistant to disease than modified seeds are. A seed that has been modified to resist one disease will be much more susceptible to other diseases. Heirloom seeds are much more adaptable to different climates and growing conditions as well, though maybe not in the first generation. When growing with Heirlooms, save all the seeds from your first batch of fruit, no matter the condition of the fruit. Those seeds will be more suited to local conditions. Their adaptability is one of the big reasons people use Heirloom seeds.

The beauty of a forum is in its members with different experiences & opinions.

I have been growing tomatoes in adverse Thai soil & weather conditions for about ten years.

I can state with a very high degree of confidence; heirloom tomatoes are unsuitable here.

Unless the OP is located in an unusually cool location; the plants will never set fruit.

At best he will achieve a nice green bush with never fruiting flowers.

Disease resistance is more elastic as it depends on local soil conditions.

I tried just about every conceivable Brandywine variety & many more; all a waste of time. Some grew very nice vegetatively but never set fruit. (nothing to save for the next gen.)

With proper heat & disease resistant seeds; very nice results can be achieved. Soil care is critical for good results. All the built in resistance will not help if your soil lacks organic material and is without good drainage.

Last; for serious growers, netting is a must, reduces daylight temperatures allows for better fruit set.

thaimat; if you have heirloom seeds successfully open pollinated in Thailand, please let us know the strain and can I buy some !!!

Picture from a small market in Grand Central Station, NYC. Passed by the other day.

Hi Soidog, thanks for your coments and for the advice about the organic wood vinegar, I will look out for some.

I have to contradict you and say that my first crop of tomatoes were from an heirloom variety (German Lunchbox, a type of cherry tomato) - and I've been eating the delicious tomatoes from them for the past few months. No splitting, no Blossom end rot, just plenty, or beautiful ripe tomatoes! I don't think they are in a particularly cool location either, they're in pots, against my back wall, where they get full sun in the morning and shade in the afternoon. The 4 remaining plants that I have from this first crop, also, have not gotten affected by this thrips outbreak!

My second attempt (with different heirloom varieites of varying colours/types of tomatoes) has been decemated! Each plant had flowers, and some had small fruit - but the foliage curled and mottled to such an extent that I've had to rip them up.

So I either got lucky with the first crop, and grew them before the pests found them... or, there are some types of heirlooms that are more/less suited to our climate/environment than others.

I don't mind hybrids, but I am adamant that I will never eat or grow (knowingly!) a GM crop of any kind! I regard GM and all those involved in it, (Monstant et al) as Mad Scientists, bio-hacking the environment, and potentially putting all of us in danger from their evil genetic manipulation. I'd rather plant heirlooms and die of starvation trying, than eat one of their franken foods. :0

[Pacificperson]

Take a look at this site: http://www.reimerseeds.com The Bella Rosa variety might be good for you. It is heat tolerant and TSWV resistant.

I am not sure that they will ship to Thailand, but it can't hurt to ask. They have some nice tropical varieties. It sounds as if you are growing in pots. You can steam your soil. It will sterilize it, but you will also lose your soil flora.

[rice555]

Hello All, if people are interested in which toms, both OP & Hyb. grow better

than most, use the TV search function to look up growing tom's, there are several

threads(5+) that give some info on what members have had good luck with.

Remember that the OP list of toms doesn't get much bigger than what's been

posted on.

Hyb. list keeps growing.

Google searches for growing toms or growing heat set toms will also bring up Thai

Visa threads on toms.

Pacificperson, watch the seed count vs prices at reimers and other O/L seed sources.

Reimers is $3.50 for 10-seed, Johnny's and TGS prices are for 30-seed per packet.

rice555

[thaimat]

Not sure what to say to you, SD, here's a pic of Heirloom Earliana's grown here in Thailand. They are being grown in Aquaponics trays, but that changes nothing about the seeds' capacity to grow in Thailand, I believe, I also have grown every kind of Brandywine, many Eastern Europe/Russian varieties as well. I only grow organic heirlooms. Soil is whatever you make it, so if you have proper soil-Ph, nutrients, etc, I really cannot see why Heirloom tomatoes wouldn't grow for you. Heat is not an issue for tomatoes, but too much sun can be. If your plants are not fruiting, majority of the time it will be a lack of pollinator (bee) problem. This is a very common problem in Thailand. A small minority of the time it's a nutritent issue. But am not trying to be argumentative, just trying to get a viewpoint across about the excellent adaptive nature of unmodified organic heirloom seeds.

Johnny's Seeds ships to Thailand, from Maine, USA. An excellent company, top quality seeds. I would take serious issue with the suggestion not to buy heirloom seeds. Seeds that Monsanto & friends have not manipulated the DNA of, such as true Heirlooms, are more resistant to disease than modified seeds are. A seed that has been modified to resist one disease will be much more susceptible to other diseases. Heirloom seeds are much more adaptable to different climates and growing conditions as well, though maybe not in the first generation. When growing with Heirlooms, save all the seeds from your first batch of fruit, no matter the condition of the fruit. Those seeds will be more suited to local conditions. Their adaptability is one of the big reasons people use Heirloom seeds.

The beauty of a forum is in its members with different experiences & opinions.

I have been growing tomatoes in adverse Thai soil & weather conditions for about ten years.

I can state with a very high degree of confidence; heirloom tomatoes are unsuitable here.

Unless the OP is located in an unusually cool location; the plants will never set fruit.

At best he will achieve a nice green bush with never fruiting flowers.

Disease resistance is more elastic as it depends on local soil conditions.

I tried just about every conceivable Brandywine variety & many more; all a waste of time. Some grew very nice vegetatively but never set fruit. (nothing to save for the next gen.)

With proper heat & disease resistant seeds; very nice results can be achieved. Soil care is critical for good results. All the built in resistance will not help if your soil lacks organic material and is without good drainage.

Last; for serious growers, netting is a must, reduces daylight temperatures allows for better fruit set.

thaimat; if you have heirloom seeds successfully open pollinated in Thailand, please let us know the strain and can I buy some !!!

Picture from a small market in Grand Central Station, NYC. Passed by the other day.

[soidog2]

thaimat !

I am happy to learn but are talking apples and oranges for both you & the OP.

A large multitude of cherry types & roma types will grow like weeds under minimal conditions. Some quite delicious.

The brandywine type heirlooms (large beefsteak type fruit) are extremely sensitive to heat, will not set fruit in sustained temperatures above 95 degrees Fahrenheit. I am not sure where you got : "Heat is not an issue for tomatoes" when every scientific study shows other wise.

Please read one small sample attached.

In addition; while it true soil is what you make it; growing under a controlled environment in aquaponics trays vs open soil in the garden is hardly a comparison.

Even under this conditions I will send you a large case or Chang or your preferred indulgence when you come up with a viable second generation brandywine seed grown outdoors in NE Thailand.

Best regards.

Tomatoes grow best if temperatures range between 70 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit, but can tolerate

temperatures lower than 55° F and higher than 100° F for short periods. However, extended periods lower or higher

than these temperatures abort the blossoms.

Temperatures that are higher than 90° F during the day are the main cause of blossom drop. In fact, temperatures over 104° F for four hours or more cause the flowers to abort. (common daytime occurrence in Thailand)

Night temperatures higher than 75° F will also cause blossom abortion.

These sustained, hot temperatures at night burn up the food reserves the tomato produced during the day and the flowers abort.

High Temperatures for Tomatoes.pdf

[thaimat]

For the OP: try a 5% solution of hydrogen peroxide (5%HP/95% water) sprayed on your plants and soil. If you have good air movement, wind or fan, over your tomatoes, cover them in 9 mil net to keep out all bugs, including thrips. Doing these two things may solve your problems.

To SD2: I have seeds many generations removed from 2nd now, for Pink, Yellow, Red, and Black Brandywines. (Not much of a drinker, so will pass on your generous offer).

As to Aquaponics and soil growing being "apples and oranges" vis-a-vis the seeds, I don't see why. The requirements the seeds have to grow are the exaxt same. My Aquaponics trays are filled with rocks, and in net greenhouses, so the temperatures are in fact much higher than outside. No greenhouse is 100% insect proof, so I still have those same issues, but am limited in my response choices, because anything that is used on my vegetable trays goes into my fish tanks, so poisons are out of the question. My point is, if I can grow things in rocks, which is much more difficult, they certainly can be grown in dirt! Quoting "scientific studies", (a term thrown around so casually these days, especially for studies not peer reviewed) achieves nothing.

Start with organic heirloom seeds, (and for those that don't know, an organic heirloom is a seed that has direct lineage traced back to pre petrochemical times, so it's DNA has never been warped by petrochemicals), grow them with extra care to get a generation of any amount of fruit. Your first generation is all about getting adapted seeds. If you think heat is your problem, rig up a small myster; if thrips, net it and fan it. Tomatoes devour potassium and phosphorus, but many gardeners often give them too much nitrogen riich fertilizer. This will cause blossoms to drop, or flowers not to come at all. If your tomato plants are not flowering, chances are your nitrogen is way too high, potassium too low.

Your second generation seeds will be more adapted to your local soil conditions and climate, and each successive generation even more so. There are very simple reasons why Heirloom seeds are more expensive, harder to find, and sought after by master gardeners. For the beginner who only wants to grow something, not too worried about the quality of the fruit, or nutritional value, BigAg modified seeds will do just fine.

thaimat !

I am happy to learn but are talking apples and oranges for both you & the OP.

A large multitude of cherry types & roma types will grow like weeds under minimal conditions. Some quite delicious.

The brandywine type heirlooms (large beefsteak type fruit) are extremely sensitive to heat, will not set fruit in sustained temperatures above 95 degrees Fahrenheit. I am not sure where you got : "Heat is not an issue for tomatoes" when every scientific study shows other wise.

Please read one small sample attached.

In addition; while it true soil is what you make it; growing under a controlled environment in aquaponics trays vs open soil in the garden is hardly a comparison.

Even under this conditions I will send you a large case or Chang or your preferred indulgence when you come up with a viable second generation brandywine seed grown outdoors in NE Thailand.

Best regards.

Tomatoes grow best if temperatures range between 70 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit, but can tolerate

temperatures lower than 55° F and higher than 100° F for short periods. However, extended periods lower or higher

than these temperatures abort the blossoms.

Temperatures that are higher than 90° F during the day are the main cause of blossom drop. In fact, temperatures over 104° F for four hours or more cause the flowers to abort. (common daytime occurrence in Thailand)

Night temperatures higher than 75° F will also cause blossom abortion.

These sustained, hot temperatures at night burn up the food reserves the tomato produced during the day and the flowers abort.

[SundayAfternoon]

thaimat, thanks for the advice.

5% solution of hydrogen peroxide and 9 mil net is very do-able. So I will try to impliment this.

You make some very interesting points about how beirlooms develop through the generations. I didn't know any of this, so I find it fascinating.

You said:

'Your first generation is all about getting adapted seeds.'

So, if I take the seeds from any plants that survive this thrips/virus outbreak (a few of them do have fruit in the green stage) could I 'adapt' the plants to be more resistant to the trips/virus?

Also,

'Tomatoes devour potassium and phosphorus, but many gardeners often give them too much nitrogen riich fertilizer. This will cause blossoms to drop, or flowers not to come at all. If your tomato plants are not flowering, chances are your nitrogen is way too high, potassium too low.

What can we buy here in Thailand that contains potassium/phosporus and is organic?

I have also noticed that there is a real lack of bees in my area, and as a result, my cucumbers and melons don't seem to develop fruit properly, despite seeming vigourous and green and strong!

Soidog 2, I have also read that Cherry toms are much easier to grow, as a variety than other types. The attatched PDF is very interesting - I'm sure a lot of plants probably stuggle in our 100 degree + temps (I know I do!) LOL

Pacificperson, thank you for the suggetion of Bella Rose, as a TSWV resistant varietiy, I will look out for it! I generally get my seeds sent in from Baker Creek, so I will see if they have them.

Thanks for the advice all.

[thaimat]

Hi Sunday,

I think that the first thing to remember about tomatoes, is that they come from southwestern US/Mexico. So they have been cultivated in hot weather for many centuries, possbly millenia.

The 9 mil net will keep out the smallest of harmful insects-the thrip. But it will create a very hot and humid environment for the tomato. The high humidity, combined with the heat, can be an issue for many varieties. A simple, small, homemade windmill is the easy, low energy way to fan your plants.

A 5% H2O2 solution, (again, that's 5% of the over the counter H2O2 solution, which itself is either 3% or 5%, and you mix with 95% water) is a safe, natural, and very beneficial way to help so many kinds of plants, in so many ways.

In answer to your query-yes, save any seeds from your first generation of fruits, letting them over-ripen on the vine. If your seeds are indeed organic heirlooms, then they are very adaptive in nature. Rinse those seeds off in unchlorinated water, dry in a net bag out of the sun for a week, store in cool, dark place. Replant them when you wish, and you should find that this first generation local seed will grow better fruit. It might take you a few generations of this to get high yield plants, but that depends more on your time, efforts, and care given the plants. Here in LOS, you want to plant a bit "seasonally", though the seasons here do not really corellate to seasonal growing in the west. For your own ease of growing, try to start your seeds so that their first 6 weeks-2 months of growth are in the cooler weather if possible. They can be grown year round, but if they start off in the extreme heat/humidity times, you will need to give them more attention.

Natural sources of potassium that are easily found here are bananas and papayas. Skins, (papaya) seeds are rich in potassium, (K). Banana skins also will help keep away aphids. You can bury any of these just under the soil, or surround each plant with them. If using papaya seeds as your K source, air dry them for a few days, then put them in a mortar and pestle, and "bok bok" them into a powder, to sprinkle a tablespoon around the base of each plant, especially important as the plant reaches 30 cm tall, and is coming into it's flowering stage. Tomatoes need K both to flower, and to fruit. Banana skins and papaya seeds are also a good source of organic P, as is proper compost.

So many beginning farmers simply add manure to their gardens, not realizing that they are not only not getting proper amounts of nutrients, but are nitrogen engorging their plants, which may give them very lush plants with no fruit. A simple way to provide a balanced diet for your plants is to add earthworms to your garden. These are natures finest gardeners, and their excrement is a balanced supplement for your plants that is high in N-P-K.

Thailand does have a bee problem. There are many ways to attract bees using flowering plants. Wildflower seeds, of local "native flowers" are the best way to attract these wonderful flying pollinators. Growing things like the very easily grown Loofa will also attract a great deal of bees, and give you a delicious vegetable to eat in the process. The more diverse your bee attracting flowers, the more bees you'll get.

When not getting pollinating bees to work on your melons, tomatoes, or cucumbers, you can build a trellis for these plants using heavy string or twine. This way, you can shake large sections of flowers easily to get them to "set" or pollinate.

Do remember that modified seeds will be much less adaptive...Good luck, keep on farming!

thaimat, thanks for the advice.

5% solution of hydrogen peroxide and 9 mil net is very do-able. So I will try to impliment this.

You make some very interesting points about how beirlooms develop through the generations. I didn't know any of this, so I find it fascinating.

You said:

'Your first generation is all about getting adapted seeds.'

So, if I take the seeds from any plants that survive this thrips/virus outbreak (a few of them do have fruit in the green stage) could I 'adapt' the plants to be more resistant to the trips/virus?

Also,

'Tomatoes devour potassium and phosphorus, but many gardeners often give them too much nitrogen riich fertilizer. This will cause blossoms to drop, or flowers not to come at all. If your tomato plants are not flowering, chances are your nitrogen is way too high, potassium too low.

What can we buy here in Thailand that contains potassium/phosporus and is organic?

I have also noticed that there is a real lack of bees in my area, and as a result, my cucumbers and melons don't seem to develop fruit properly, despite seeming vigourous and green and strong!

Soidog 2, I have also read that Cherry toms are much easier to grow, as a variety than other types. The attatched PDF is very interesting - I'm sure a lot of plants probably stuggle in our 100 degree + temps (I know I do!) LOL

Pacificperson, thank you for the suggetion of Bella Rose, as a TSWV resistant varietiy, I will look out for it! I generally get my seeds sent in from Baker Creek, so I will see if they have them.

Thanks for the advice all.

[loong]

Is hydrogen peroxide organic?

Thaimat, about the Pappaya seeds being a good source of potassium is totally new to me. I knew about banana waste, but that is a gem of good info about the pappaya seeds. Thanks for that

[thaimat]

hydrogen peroxide comes with the rain, (the extra atom of oxygen coming from the ozone layer, ozone being O3), and is one of the reasons plants look so healthy after a good rain. Since both water (H2O) and oxygen (O) are all around and in us, I would say that hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, is about as organic as it gets.

Is hydrogen peroxide organic?

Thaimat, about the Pappaya seeds being a good source of potassium is totally new to me. I knew about banana waste, but that is a gem of good info about the pappaya seeds. Thanks for that

[loong]

Is hydrogen peroxide organic?

Thaimat, about the Pappaya seeds being a good source of potassium is totally new to me. I knew about banana waste, but that is a gem of good info about the pappaya seeds. Thanks for that

hydrogen peroxide comes with the rain, (the extra atom of oxygen coming from the ozone layer, ozone being O3), and is one of the reasons plants look so healthy after a good rain. Since both water (H2O) and oxygen (O) are all around and in us, I would say that hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, is about as organic as it gets.

Thanks, that's good info

I will look to see if I can get some next time I go to the Pharmacy. Sounds like it good be handy against a lot of pests and bacteria infections.

[SundayAfternoon]

Is hydrogen peroxide organic?

Thaimat, about the Pappaya seeds being a good source of potassium is totally new to me. I knew about banana waste, but that is a gem of good info about the pappaya seeds. Thanks for that

Google has revealed that potato peelings are also a very good source, higher in Potassium than bananas!

[thaimat]

Is hydrogen peroxide organic?

Thaimat, about the Pappaya seeds being a good source of potassium is totally new to me. I knew about banana waste, but that is a gem of good info about the pappaya seeds. Thanks for that

Google has revealed that potato peelings are also a very good source, higher in Potassium than bananas!

Given the price of potatoes vs the price of bananas here, and the fact that the potatoes come from who knows where, and if grown here are full of pesticides, and banana skins will keep away aphids, and banana skins have plenty of potassium and phosphorous, I'd stick with banana skins.

[SundayAfternoon]

Thaimat, I've been saving my banana skins diligently. Baking them a little in the oven, before crushing and storing, for use when I have plenty of flowers appearing. I hope by drying them out too it will disuade ants from colonising my pots.

My last crop of tomatoes all got sick JUST between flowering and fruiting, it was quite disapointing to see all those baby tomatoes and get nothing! Agh! I've yet to see a single bell pepper despite my numerous attempts at it, too. Either I'm dong something very wrong or else bells are the most fickle plants I have treid to grow!!! They seem to start off difficult with germination being S L O W, and then they grow quite tall but spindly, not thick and bushy. As they age the leaves turn a silvery mottled colour, then they produce maybe a single tiny fruit, (a last ditch attempt to reproduce?) before dying.

You said,

''So many beginning farmers simply add manure to their gardens, not realizing that they are not only not getting proper amounts of nutrients, but are nitrogen engorging their plants, which may give them very lush plants with no fruit. A simple way to provide a balanced diet for your plants is to add earthworms to your garden. These are natures finest gardeners, and their excrement is a balanced supplement for your plants that is high in N-P-K.''

Yup. That was me. Thinking that cow manure would suffice as fertilizer. Perhaps that was what I was doing wrong?

THIS TIME I'm trying a combination of cow manure, worm compost, liquid seaweed, fish emulsion, and an application of banana skin / potato skin / egg shell / epsom salt at flowering. I don't want to overfertilize, but I think this is a more rounded aproach. I'm also applying a foliar spray regime of asprin, which I've read helps the plants to deter pests and disease.

It's not looking so good, so far...

My young plants (tomatoes, cucumbers and melons) are already showing signs of damage of leaves (leaf miner? squiggles). As they get older they seem to have discoloured lower leaves leading to yellowing, shriveling, brown spots, and then a complete drying up and dying of the leaves.

I thought it was thrips and Tomato Spotted Wilt the first time around, but I'm not sure now, given that it also affected my cucumbers and melons, bell peppers and chillis. Honestly, I don't know what it is! Google searches suggest it could be a mineral deficiency, or else a virus or blight of some variety... (gummy stem bight? fasarium wilt? spotted wilt? early blight?) I guess I won't know without proper testing, and I've no idea where I could get that done. I just figure I'm in an area infestated with 'something' or I have a load of critters that are spreading it.

This is my last attempt at grow heirlooms here in Thiland. I'm going to try and do as you sugested and hopefully harvest some seeds that I can replant - but if it fails again - I'm going to focus on hybrids next time. Maybe the banana skins will help! (I do hope so).

[Jotham79]

I agree that potatoes in Thailand are a bit pricey, but I don't see how they will be contaminated with chemicals when they grow under ground and get fairly well washed. BTW, most are grown in the cooler mountainous areas that are a bit cooler. Also, it seems like I heard duck poo was pretty hi in potassiaum.

[Fapington]

I realize this thread is old, but I thought I'd share my experiences with tomatoes, thrips, and spotted wilt virus.

The thrips themselves are doing minimal damage, but as we know, they transmit spotted wilt virus. Once you're infected with SWV, you're pretty much screwed.

Wood vinegar applications have proven ineffective against thrips (No one here has reported otherwise, unless I miss it), however I am still a huge advocate of wood vinegar as both a repellent for other insects, such as mealy worms, and as a natural growth promoter. So, in short, grow varieties that are resistant to SWV, and if not, be prepared to lose some plants and carry on.

My pink brandywines (heirloom) have had no SWV issues, while other tomato varieties are ate up with it. Purple Cherokee has proven to be especially difficult due to thrips infestation, and ultimately SWV. In my experience, cherry tomatoes, hybrid, heirloom, you name it, are also a bit more resilient than larger beef steak tomatoes. They seem to set more fruit more easily, and resist disease and pests better than larger beefsteaks.

What works for me might not work for you. And what you are successfully growing I may fail at entirely. At the end of the day it just involves investing in some seed stock, lots of experimentation, and finding out what you can make happen despite the challenges of growing in the tropics. Although we may have more "challenges" growing in the Thai climate, we are also blessed with warm weather year round. Warm enough at least, to grow tomatoes

Just my 2 cents!

[cdmtdm]

nice post , any pics of the diseased plants mate ?

[Fapington]

Truth be told, as soon as I identify what might be spotted wilt virus, I rip them out, and take to the trash bin point away from the house.

I am having an issue with thrips on some plants now. I can try to get you a high res photo of what my thrips look like, if you'd like.

nice post , any pics of the diseased plants mate ?

[IsaanAussie]

Try this one guys:

Aphid Spray

1 whole head of garlic, minced

1 cup of vegetable oil

Place the oil and minced garlic together in a glass bottle and seal tightly.

Place it in a fridge for 3 days to steep. Strain after 3 days and replace the

garlic oil in the jar. Refrigerate for further use.

For your aphid spray you will need the following:

1 tablespoon of your previously made garlic oil

1 teaspoon of washing-up liquid

1 liter of water

Mix altogether and place in a hand sprayer. Douse your vegetables with the

liquid to get rid of aphids and white fly.