Ex-Thai Prime Minister Abhisit ' To Face Murder Charge ': Officials

[OzMick]

Quite a few posters have used the term "appropriate response" as the taxi driver was "only" armed with a slingshot, which despite protests is still a weapon capable of causing severe injuries and possibly death. Admittedly it is a pretty poor weapon compared to a military rifle, but do you expect soldiers to ignore you because you are under-armed?

Soldiers are not issued with slingshots, and their policy is to use overwhelming force to prevent loss of their own, avoiding as much as possible a "fair fight."

Bringing a knife to a gunfight is silly, popping out of concealment holding a slingshot while troops are firing is terminally stupid.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed and will continue to be removed. This topic is not an invitation to rehash the events of 2010, there are other topics still open in which to do so.

[OzMick]

Abisit and Suthep really need to think long and hard now

Are they really going to take the hit for the "invisible hand"?

The invisible hand extends a middle digit.

[khunsiam]

Quite a few posters have used the term "appropriate response" as the taxi driver was "only" armed with a slingshot, which despite protests is still a weapon capable of causing severe injuries and possibly death. Admittedly it is a pretty poor weapon compared to a military rifle, but do you expect soldiers to ignore you because you are under-armed?

Soldiers are not issued with slingshots, and their policy is to use overwhelming force to prevent loss of their own, avoiding as much as possible a "fair fight."

Bringing a knife to a gunfight is silly, popping out of concealment holding a slingshot while troops are firing is terminally stupid.

Only dictators use the army to turn against their compatriots, civilized countries use riotpolice. Soldiers are not trained to handle riots.

[OzMick]

Quite a few posters have used the term "appropriate response" as the taxi driver was "only" armed with a slingshot, which despite protests is still a weapon capable of causing severe injuries and possibly death. Admittedly it is a pretty poor weapon compared to a military rifle, but do you expect soldiers to ignore you because you are under-armed?

Soldiers are not issued with slingshots, and their policy is to use overwhelming force to prevent loss of their own, avoiding as much as possible a "fair fight."

Bringing a knife to a gunfight is silly, popping out of concealment holding a slingshot while troops are firing is terminally stupid.

Only dictators use the army to turn against their compatriots, civilized countries use riotpolice. Soldiers are not trained to handle riots.

There is nothing dictatorial about using the military when the police are unable/unwilling to handle the level of violence of the rioters. Do you consider the US uncivilized and/or a dictatorship?

[khunsiam]

He may be considering using his British passport soon

If Abhisit panics and heads for Britain, and Theresa May gets wind of it before he lands, would she deprive him of British citizenship to avoid embarrassment over the extradition proceedings? Should she?

Well if they let Thaksin in,they will let anyone in!

"Panic! "wishful thinking on your part, Abhisit is going nowhere,only the crooks and cowards "panic" and go on the run, and Abhisit is too much of a gentleman,who cares about his Country, to do that.

P.S If ? Abhisit has a British Passport,there shouldn't be problem. He would get a job as a very welcome News Reader/Journalist,no problem. Perhaps even a Politician.

Going to war over a tiny piece of land for political gain, Cambodian and Thai blood on the hands.

[OzMick]

There is nothing dictatorial about using the military when the police are unable/unwilling to handle the level of violence of the rioters. Do you consider the US uncivilized and/or a dictatorship?

The US military never fired on American citizens.

Only if you subscribe to the lie that the National guard are not part of the US military - or have you never heard of Kent State?

[jackr]

What makes you think the world outside Thailand is even paying attention to the world inside Thailand?

BBC World News today 6/12/2012 ran the Story, of Abhisits Indictment, by PTP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...d-asia-20621781

Yeah....but who follows the BBC?

Those with at least half a brain and up.

Anything comes to fruition with this would just highlight how far Thailand is lagging. We all know who is to blame for any, and all, deaths and it ain't the bloke who did what needed to be done.

[maidu]

Pure unadulterated political grandstanding. The hand of Thaksin is behind it. Such a serious charge (of murder) would not have come from Ms Avoidance Yingluck or Mr Buffoon Chalerm - it had to be directed from the top of the political dung heap. PT party is having fits because Abhisit is a thinking, well-spoken, fair-minded person, so PT is using all it's tin foil armnaments to try and shoot him down. Last month it was hyped-up charges for avoiding military, this month, it's......

The only drawbacks I've seen with Abhiist is he was too trepidatious, too careful, too kind, and too slow in reacting to the thugs who commandeered Bkk for two months in 2010, while they were setting up petrol-soaked tire barricades topped with bamboo spikes.

[whybother]

Only dictators use the army to turn against their compatriots, civilized countries use riotpolice. Soldiers are not trained to handle riots.

In most western countries, they have police squads that are just as heavily armed as the Thai army. Thailand doesn't have those police squads, so they use the army.

You do have to remember, that this wasn't simply a group of peaceful protesters that got a bit violent (a la Pitak Siam a few weeks ago), this was a group that started with "bring a bottle so we can burn the city", moved up to blowing up a Colonel with a grenade and heavily armed men shooting at the army, followed by blowing up passers by with a grenade.

The Thai police simply aren't equipped to deal with that level of violence.

[rubl]

"Many pieces of evidence indicated that the two responsible persons made the order with the intention of seeing massive fatalities," he said.

Abhisit and Suthep claimed earlier that they had no choice but to take tough action to maintain law and order in the capital. Tarit said such a claim was not rational as they could have used other methods to handle the situation.

"The action was misconduct, as both of them should know very well that using live bullets and snipers could cause the death of protesters."

Asked whether Tarit himself was at the time a member of the CRES, he said he never agreed with the tough action and did not suggest to Abhisit and Suthep that they use weapons against the people.

K. Tarit will really need to explain this masterful logic. If said like this in Thai he may face a defamation suite, I'm afraid.

[animatic]

They must keep Abhisit and the Dems on the back foot and defensive,

otherwise they will more easily bring the governments organized corruption to the public eyes.

And there of course is no small amount of ; Revenge, and power bargaining over charges, at play.

They are doing anything and everything to marginalized Abhisit in the public eyes,

because no matter what,he has been the polar opposite of Thaksin in the political scene,

and makes him look bad when comparisons are made.

Since they can't actually improve Thaksin's image,

he has more tarnish than can be scrubbed off, but,

they can try and lower the bar he is judged against.

Edited December 7, 2012 by animatic

[Moruya]

So when will Tarit arrest Wongsawat? Under his command the police killed PAD demonstrators.

And Thaksin too under the same "logic" he is applying to Abhisit. He ordered force, said deaths were unavoidable and didn't call things off when he had the chance. There have already been convictions against the police so what are the DSI waiting for?

[saltandpepper]

What is wrong with this country?

Answer is simple, and start with a T.

A fugitive convicted criminal is running the country from Dubai, through a puppet PM and a bought government, after having inflicted deep wounds to Thailand during the recent years, after having tried to bring this country to civil war just to get back here and resume the pillage, and there, it will be Abhisit who will stand trial for murder?????

I am a very simple mind and I just can not understand the logic in here.

Thailand used to be a beautiful country. Thai people, please wake up, and stand for your country. Get rid of all these corrupt politicians from all sides. Clean up the politics, and try to build a future for your kids. Think ahead and think for yourself. If not, I am afraid that soon, you will suffer much more violent times.

[starcad]

I love this country, But it's becoming a JOKE that is NOT Funny.

That is ALL

[Hugo6]

That would indicate who was doing the illegal acts.

or that the dsi is not on thaksins payroll

or that justice has never been done for 2010

or a whole lot of possibilities besides yours

I don't think most the 295 were charged by DSI. In most countries I know, protesters that get violent against authorities are usually arrested. In most countries I know, people that fire guns at authorities (or are with people that fire guns at authorities) also get shot.

what part of

He insisted his office has taken legal action on both sides of the 2010 violence as it has filed charges against 295 red supporters.

is so hard to understand

[Siripon]

So when will Tarit arrest Wongsawat? Under his command the police killed PAD demonstrators.

And Thaksin too under the same "logic" he is applying to Abhisit. He ordered force, said deaths were unavoidable and didn't call things off when he had the chance. There have already been convictions against the police so what are the DSI waiting for?

The police chief faced charges after the death and injuries of the PAD rally during PM Somchai Wongsawat's tenure so in 2010 the army refused to take action until Apisit and Suthep were officially in charge of the operation- so they would take the rap and not the army in the event of losses.

[Skywalker69]

Thaksin is running out of ideas and getting more and more desperate.

[Thai at Heart]

Isn't the point of the SOE, that in some way, the army insulate themselves from charges, and the legal blame falls completely on the civilian government at the time?

A nice get out clause for the army, because in the fog, people do stupid things and the government of the time has to be on the hook for anything that goes wrong?

[Time Traveller]

Wonder if the courts will make charges against Jatupon and the others as their red shirts killed Army personnel. Doubt it very much.

Think the outside world is laughing at Thailand again

How is that? Abhisit was the leader when some of the most oppressive censorship, brutal crackdowns and harshest sentences anywhere in the world were carried out under his leadership. Only fitting he is held responsible.

He may be considering using his British passport soon

"anywhere in the world" ... Maybe a slight exaggeration there! Probably not even "anywhere in Thailand".

No exaggeration, 90+ people were shot dead in the stand off in the center of the city. Internet websites blocked including international news sites as well as all domestic media censored, and people being sent to prison for 20+yrs for lese majeste in dubious circumstances. North Korea maybe have stricter censorship and harsher sentences, but not many other countries compare with Thailand under Abhisit.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Time Traveller

[easyas]

unless he pulled the trigger he didn't murder anyone - rediculous If a Thai soldier on the ground was trigger happy and there's evidence beyond any reasonable doubt that he killed an inocent taxi driver then he should be brought to court to answer the allegations only in Thailand

I'm as flabberghasted as you!!! How on earth can any sane prosecutor seek murder charges against the prime minister of a country when soldiers were gunmen and he had not told them directly to murder Somchai the taxi driver. So ridiculous and it exceeds any bounds of legal reason. Amazing how the new powers can force the prosecutors act so frivolously.

Two very stupid posts! That's the same argument put forward by the Nazi top heirachy when tried for war crimes at Nuremberg after WWII - "I didn't pull the trigger"!

To compare the Apisit government to the Nazis is far more foolish that the 'stupid posts'.

You completely missed my point, which was, in contradiction to the opinions expressed in the posts I quoted, there is indeed a very well known precedent for a judicial body to accuse a head of state of criminal conduct including authorising the use of force causing death. There are in all probability many more such precedents.

Edited December 7, 2012 by easyas

[BlackJack]

a good move by the government

open up this one and then open up the 1500 killed by the drug crackdown a few years back

means more charges on Thaksin

[Time Traveller]

Wonder if the courts will make charges against Jatupon and the others as their red shirts killed Army personnel. Doubt it very much.

Think the outside world is laughing at Thailand again

How is that? Abhisit was the leader when some of the most oppressive censorship, brutal crackdowns and harshest sentences anywhere in the world were carried out under his leadership. Only fitting he is held responsible.

He may be considering using his British passport soon

Time Traveller, if you really think that then I don't think you know much about the world (or Thailand for that matter). Anywhere in the world? Do you have any idea what goes on in Burma, or China, or Syria, or any one of dozens of other countries any reasonably informed person could name off the top of their head? What a ridiculous statement!

Maybe you're right. Maybe Saddam Hussein was innocent. May Ossama Bin Laden was innocent. Maybe Hitler was innocent. Maybe leaders are not to blame. But the buck has got to stop somewhere, and I do know when the blame comes down to either the Army or some other patsy then I'm pretty sure when the dust settles the Thai army are going to come out looking clean. Didn't you know thats why Thailand has puppet leaders. Sooner or later someone has to take the blame for the army. Abhisit knows how politics works here, so he's got no one to blame but himself.

[wildorchid]

Thaksin is running out of ideas and getting more and more desperate.

DID he give the order? if so then he must face justice and spend some time in the Bkk hilton,

[patjem]

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/05/16/nick-nostitz-in-the-killing-zone/

This is an eye-witness account, by a foreign journalist, of the killing of the taxi driver K. Chunnarong. It includes photographs before and after the event and a great amount of detail about how the soldiers conducted their operation. Pretty brutal stuff. A middle-aged man, armed with a small slingshot, shot to death by trained soldiers armed with high-powered rifles ... David losing to Goliath. Anyway, read the account get a sense of what was really happening on the ground that day....

Just a sec ... I thought the taxi driver was shot when he ran out of his apartment to see what was going on??

Sent from my HTC phone.

I wonder if the taxi-driver post-humously stated that he 'wondered what was going on', and whether it was possible that he didn't know there had been a protest with loudspeakers broadcasting hate speeches outside his own home for the previous 3 months. Being a taxi driver, I also wonder if he had been unaware of the traffic flow and diversions due to bamboo/ tyre/ gasoline constructed barricades at key road entrances nearby. Oh, but it was known that he was a red supporter.... the mind boggles with this logic.

[Baerboxer]

Er...........

Maybe he authorised lethal force in the full knowledge that it would almost certainly result in deaths.

Deaths of unarmed Thai civilians.

Busy tonight eh ???

That doesn't mean that was his aim.

Why are police armed? Why do they have live bullets? Does the fact that they're sent out armed every day and night mean that their superiors are guilty of pre-meditated murder?

Irrelevant and you know it.

Like I said it's a busy night...........

Of course it's not irrelevant. The government of the day need to ensure the rule of law and order. The red shirt thug element were intent on violence and destruction with leaders openly inciting supporters to violence. The police had all but disappeared and were unwilling to do their duty - even though they are armed. The army were the only option to the government to restore order.

There seems to be a belief these days that rioters and terrorists can do what they like - and then be treated as poor victims should anything happen to them.

There is a big difference between a dictator ordering violence against peaceful demonstrators and a lawful government restoring law and order against a bunch of paid thugs. There's none more busy than a busy fool.

[rubl]

It certainly wasn't the most oppressive during Abhisit's time

According to experts, the year 2010 saw a three-fold increase in the number of lese majeste cases reaching the lower courts from the previous year, which had itself shattered earlier records. The criminal complaint against Ah Kong was initiated by none other than Mark Abhisit’s personal secretary, who reported the content of four SMS messages he received on his mobile phone. Naturally, Mark Abhisit claims to have known nothing about it, but his history of lies and distortions calls his credibility into serious question.

http://thaiintellige...ost-do-not-see/

"his history of lies and distortions calls his credibility into serious question". Interestingly the thaiintelligence page refers to Robert A.

[whybother]

It certainly wasn't the most oppressive during Abhisit's time

According to experts, the year 2010 saw a three-fold increase in the number of lese majeste cases reaching the lower courts from the previous year, which had itself shattered earlier records. The criminal complaint against Ah Kong was initiated by none other than Mark Abhisit’s personal secretary, who reported the content of four SMS messages he received on his mobile phone. Naturally, Mark Abhisit claims to have known nothing about it, but his history of lies and distortions calls his credibility into serious question.

http://thaiintellige...ost-do-not-see/

Two things:

1) What does that have to do with the government. LM charges can be lodged by anyone.

2) One of the reasons there was an increase of LM charges is because the red shirts were breaking more LM laws.

[smedly]

Quite a few posters have used the term "appropriate response" as the taxi driver was "only" armed with a slingshot, which despite protests is still a weapon capable of causing severe injuries and possibly death. Admittedly it is a pretty poor weapon compared to a military rifle, but do you expect soldiers to ignore you because you are under-armed?

Soldiers are not issued with slingshots, and their policy is to use overwhelming force to prevent loss of their own, avoiding as much as possible a "fair fight."

Bringing a knife to a gunfight is silly, popping out of concealment holding a slingshot while troops are firing is terminally stupid.

Only dictators use the army to turn against their compatriots, civilized countries use riotpolice. Soldiers are not trained to handle riots.

not correct, the police are a generally civil force, the army have been used when weapons are used/produced in civil disturbances - even in the UK

[FarangTalk]

Two things:

1) What does that have to do with the government. LM charges can be lodged by anyone.

2) One of the reasons there was an increase of LM charges is because the red shirts were breaking more LM laws.

Nice attempt to deflect responsibility from the government of the day. However Abhisit himself must have thought LM the government's responsibility as he was talking about law reform in 2009. Showed his insincerity though as earlier this year he was attacking Yingluck on the issue telling her the law should not be amended. His government clearly used Article 112 for political gain, rather than protecting the Monarchy.

The bigger picture includes the massive increase in media censorship including the introduction of the cyber crimes law, and the setting up of the war room to censor the internet, at a cost of B500m to the taxpayer.

“The upcoming elections can hardly be credible if the government closes down opposition radio stations and websites,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “This government came into office saying it was committed to protecting rights, but it has become the most prolific censor in recent Thai history.”

http://asiancorrespondent.com/53364/human-rights-watch-abhisit-government-is-most-prolific-censor-in-recent-thai-history/