Animal Activists Seek Action Against Sattahip Dog Killer

[rfukata]

"Animal activists seek action against Sattahip dog killer"

these activist should spend their time hunting down the 'cross border soi dog trade' rather than mingle with

this isolated case. I think the activist needs a mental check up.

[brianP]

I bought a bull-whip in Tijuana years ago and practiced on prickly pear cactus. 6 months later i could snap a prickly pear with precision.

Found out the snap and crackle pop made the bullwhips sting unnecessary as man and beast got the message.

After dog attack #1, why didn't the guy just get pepper spray. Hope he learned a life lesson too.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed. If you do not agree with another poster's opinion, you can choose a less inflammatory method to voice your disagreement.

[Tanaka]

I would not hesitate to kill any dog who attacked me or threatened me.

These animal do good-ers (most likely family of the person most likely to have to cough up 300k) have gone tropo and off this planet.

In a civilized country, the dog would have been put down (killed) by Government authorities.

These people are outrageous. The lesson learnt here is that after you get bitten, in Thailand it is easier to smile and then poison them.

Poison is for cowards and as you advocate the use of it so..........

[mikebell]

When I was a child sixty years ago in Britain, dogs there were allowed to run wild. In time, Thailand will learn how civilised nations protect their people: be patient - give it a hundred years or so.

[BillyBobThai]

Set out a large bowl of anti freeze.

[fstarbkk]

I wonder; if this was a Thai against Thai issue would it have caused such a protest, or even made the media? I can't help feeling, given the comments about how (the German man) should go back home, that they are protesting more about the dog killers nationality, then the actual action(s) preceding and after the incident. .

Reinforcing that social conditioning that all Thais must unite, (when the word 'foreign' is used), to decide an argument. or disagreement.

I know the story makes this group like a bunch of xenophobes. But I happen to know about them for some time and know some of the members, which includes foreigners.

During the 2011 floods they have done heroic work rescuing people's abandoned pets from their flooded homes and working hand in hand with local expats and international NGO's. In addition they're one of the most effective movements to make meaningful animal welfare legislation part of the government agenda.

[dcutman]

Here is the other side of the story. http://www.pattaya103.com/german-kills-pet-dog-the-other-side-of-the-story/

Not sure this is an allowed source.

[fstarbkk]

There are clearly two sides to this story. The main problem, as usual, is the lack of responsibility of many dog owners here in Thailand and the absence of a clear and consistently enforced rules for pet owners.

Nevertheless, vigilante justice simply cannot be condoned, no matter how emotionally "satisfying" it may be in the short term. As this case shows, it inevitably escalates most situations and creates more conflict and hostility.

Edited December 16, 2012 by fstarbkk

[Thai at Heart]

There are clearly two sides to this story. The main problem, as usual, it's the lack of responsibility of many dog owners here in Thailand and the absence of a clear and consistently enforced rules for pet owners.

Nevertheless, vigilante justice simply cannot be condoned, no matter how emotionally "satisfying" it may be in the short term. As this case shows, it inevitably escalates most situations and creates more conflict and hostility.

Well, if it bit him as reported, I don't see much issue with killing the dog. How it happens is largely irrelevant.

If a dog bit me or someone from my family, play time is over. Sorry, but any dog without proper training can be dangerous. Stupid owners who can't be bothered to handle a dog, have to understand that people can get FURIOUS with their irresponsible lack of control of their pet.

[circusman]

Don't know enough facts here. Why were these dogs on the loose and able to get at each other. Quick fact checks on the breed find that both are friendly and not aggressive to humans or other dogs. Something happened that was not reported here. Dogs in Thailand are generally a nuisance. Especially loose dogs, they are unhealthy, dangerous and problematical.

Rottweilers are friendly you say? Why are they employed as guard dogs then?

[fstarbkk]

There are clearly two sides to this story. The main problem, as usual, it's the lack of responsibility of many dog owners here in Thailand and the absence of a clear and consistently enforced rules for pet owners.

Nevertheless, vigilante justice simply cannot be condoned, no matter how emotionally "satisfying" it may be in the short term. As this case shows, it inevitably escalates most situations and creates more conflict and hostility.

Well, if it bit him as reported, I don't see much issue with killing the dog. How it happens is largely irrelevant.

If a dog bit me or someone from my family, play time is over. Sorry, but any dog without proper training can be dangerous. Stupid owners who can't be bothered to handle a dog, have to understand that people can get FURIOUS with their irresponsible lack of control of their pet.

Well, I suppose if everyone who gets furious about something, were to go to their kitchen and return with a knife to communicate their emotional state (no matter how understandable), things would get even more interesting around here. Come to think about it, there's quite a lot of that going on in Thailand already and I can't say that it's improving the overall quality of life here.

[fstarbkk]

Don't know enough facts here. Why were these dogs on the loose and able to get at each other. Quick fact checks on the breed find that both are friendly and not aggressive to humans or other dogs. Something happened that was not reported here. Dogs in Thailand are generally a nuisance. Especially loose dogs, they are unhealthy, dangerous and problematical.

Rottweilers are friendly you say? Why are they employed as guard dogs then?

Rotties are indeed by nature affectionate and friendly. They are however bread to be working dogs and need strong leadership and exercise to remain balanced and healthy. They make good dogs for protective service because of their strength and imposing look as well as their highly developed sense of loyalty to their handler. They can be dangerous in the wrong hands due to lack of leadership or misdirection of their protective instincts. To some degree this is true of any breed. Unfortunately, because of their look and reputation, they seem often to be the dog of choice for individuals who themselves are unstable and aggressive.

[khunken]

Don't know enough facts here. Why were these dogs on the loose and able to get at each other. Quick fact checks on the breed find that both are friendly and not aggressive to humans or other dogs. Something happened that was not reported here. Dogs in Thailand are generally a nuisance. Especially loose dogs, they are unhealthy, dangerous and problematical.

Rottweilers are friendly you say? Why are they employed as guard dogs then?

Rotties are indeed by nature affectionate and friendly. They are however bread to be working dogs and need strong leadership and exercise to remain balanced and healthy. They make good dogs for protective service because of their strength and imposing look as well as their highly developed sense of loyalty to their handler. They can be dangerous in the wrong hands due to lack of leadership or misdirection of their protective instincts. To some degree this is true of any breed. Unfortunately, because of their look and reputation, they seem often to be the dog of choice for individuals who themselves are unstable and aggressive.

Any large or medium-sized dog can be aggressive & dangerous. Properly looked after & trained they are not normally aggressive, unless trained to be such. In this case the rottweiler was the one being attacked by another untrained, unleashed & aggressive dog. Yes, the German man lost his cool & used a knife (the wrong weapon) and killed the dog.

He did wrong but was provoked - so both sides were in the wrong. You inference that owners of rottweilers are often unstable & aggressive is unproven just because of one individual.

[Tawng]

Yes & no. Most dogs I meet on my daily constitutional are placid soi dogs & if you leave them alone they will leave you alone. But I have encountered the odd aggressive dog and found it useless to complain to the owner who just takes offence. Whether there is a law or not (& I don't know if there is), the police are not interested if there is no money involved.

Interesting. It sounds like you are saying placid unowned dogs, aggressive owned dogs. If so, that's exactly my experience as well. Pets on the loose are far more dangerous than dogs born on the street.

[fstarbkk]

Don't know enough facts here. Why were these dogs on the loose and able to get at each other. Quick fact checks on the breed find that both are friendly and not aggressive to humans or other dogs. Something happened that was not reported here. Dogs in Thailand are generally a nuisance. Especially loose dogs, they are unhealthy, dangerous and problematical.

Rottweilers are friendly you say? Why are they employed as guard dogs then?

Rotties are indeed by nature affectionate and friendly. They are however bread to be working dogs and need strong leadership and exercise to remain balanced and healthy. They make good dogs for protective service because of their strength and imposing look as well as their highly developed sense of loyalty to their handler. They can be dangerous in the wrong hands due to lack of leadership or misdirection of their protective instincts. To some degree this is true of any breed. Unfortunately, because of their look and reputation, they seem often to be the dog of choice for individuals who themselves are unstable and aggressive.

Any large or medium-sized dog can be aggressive & dangerous. Properly looked after & trained they are not normally aggressive, unless trained to be such. In this case the rottweiler was the one being attacked by another untrained, unleashed & aggressive dog. Yes, the German man lost his cool & used a knife (the wrong weapon) and killed the dog.

He did wrong but was provoked - so both sides were in the wrong. You inference that owners of rottweilers are often unstable & aggressive is unproven just because of one individual.

Sorry, I really did not mean to cast aspersions against the majority of Rottie owners. It's just that they often wind up in the news and as a consequence are stigmatized as unusually dangerous. This has even lead to unfortunate legislation in some countries that bans them and makes them subject to indiscriminate seizure and destruction by the authorities, along with pit bulls, mastiffs etc..

My apologies to all responsible owners, if I unintentionally hurt their feelings.

[chrisinth]

My main problem with this entire story is not that the German killed the retriever, if he was defending himself and his dog, but that he left the scene of the attack (on his dog), went back to his house, picked up a knife and returned to confront the retriever.

If indeed his own dog was on a leash, did he bring his dog home with him when he picked up the weapon and then bring the dog back out, or did he let the leash go and leave his dog by itself for the duration of his absence?

95% of the time dogs will sort themselves out by themselves, with one of them adopting the submissive position; encounter over! I firmly believe that if the two dogs were left together, it would have sorted itself out by the time the owner returned. And yes, this is my experience of dog behaviour here in Thailand for the last 14 years.

Second problem is that the guy who killed the dog is asking for compensation of a six figure number for wounds received when in all liklyhood the animal was trying to defend itself. To me, that is an insane amount to ask for.

And the final point is that of the animal rights people getting involved in this. Go home or take up something more productive rather than stirring it up during an on-going investigation (understand a verdict will be reached on the 18th Dec, Tuesday)

Just my points of view, looking at it neutrally.................

[chrisinth]

Yes & no. Most dogs I meet on my daily constitutional are placid soi dogs & if you leave them alone they will leave you alone. But I have encountered the odd aggressive dog and found it useless to complain to the owner who just takes offence. Whether there is a law or not (& I don't know if there is), the police are not interested if there is no money involved.

Interesting. It sounds like you are saying placid unowned dogs, aggressive owned dogs. If so, that's exactly my experience as well. Pets on the loose are far more dangerous than dogs born on the street.

And this is generally true, as the 'owned dog' now has an established territory and breed dependent some dogs are more protective than others.

Soi dogs on the other hand, (if they have established said soi as a residence) will adopt a pack mentality (back to the wild) and it will be up to the alpha of that pack as to what happens in that area. Generally lone soi dogs cause little problems.

My observations anyhow.

[metisdead]

A profanity post has been removed.

[DiamondKing]

Don't know enough facts here. Why were these dogs on the loose and able to get at each other. Quick fact checks on the breed find that both are friendly and not aggressive to humans or other dogs. Something happened that was not reported here. Dogs in Thailand are generally a nuisance. Especially loose dogs, they are unhealthy, dangerous and problematical.

Rottweilers are friendly you say? Why are they employed as guard dogs then?

DUDE if you know absolutely nothing about dogs best to keep quiet you just make yourself look ignorant

Rotties are EXCELLENT and very intelligent and used not only as guard dogs but companions and family pets I had one for many years as my son grew up from a toddler to teenager and she was excellent not only as a protector but as an intelligent smart family companion.

The problems occur when IDIOTS get dogs like Rotties and Pitbulls for all the wrong reasons. SIMPLE AS THAT

DK

[khunken]

Yes & no. Most dogs I meet on my daily constitutional are placid soi dogs & if you leave them alone they will leave you alone. But I have encountered the odd aggressive dog and found it useless to complain to the owner who just takes offence. Whether there is a law or not (& I don't know if there is), the police are not interested if there is no money involved.

Interesting. It sounds like you are saying placid unowned dogs, aggressive owned dogs. If so, that's exactly my experience as well. Pets on the loose are far more dangerous than dogs born on the street.

And this is generally true, as the 'owned dog' now has an established territory and breed dependent some dogs are more protective than others.

Soi dogs on the other hand, (if they have established said soi as a residence) will adopt a pack mentality (back to the wild) and it will be up to the alpha of that pack as to what happens in that area. Generally lone soi dogs cause little problems.

My observations anyhow.

Yes they do tend to adopt a pack mentality but this is usually protecting their territory against other dogs. Most soi dogs will leave humans alone. However in the case under discussion, it would appear that a lone (non-soi) dog had adopted the aggression. I don't blame the dog - it's the owner who should be brought to book as well as the German guy.

[Thai at Heart]

There are clearly two sides to this story. The main problem, as usual, it's the lack of responsibility of many dog owners here in Thailand and the absence of a clear and consistently enforced rules for pet owners.

Nevertheless, vigilante justice simply cannot be condoned, no matter how emotionally "satisfying" it may be in the short term. As this case shows, it inevitably escalates most situations and creates more conflict and hostility.

Well, if it bit him as reported, I don't see much issue with killing the dog. How it happens is largely irrelevant.

If a dog bit me or someone from my family, play time is over. Sorry, but any dog without proper training can be dangerous. Stupid owners who can't be bothered to handle a dog, have to understand that people can get FURIOUS with their irresponsible lack of control of their pet.

Well, I suppose if everyone who gets furious about something, were to go to their kitchen and return with a knife to communicate their emotional state (no matter how understandable), things would get even more interesting around here. Come to think about it, there's quite a lot of that going on in Thailand already and I can't say that it's improving the overall quality of life here.

I couldn't bring myself to stab a dog but if the owner is unable or unwilling to take responsibly for the dog, the catcher will.

[Unwisemonkey]

Take all the emotion and hyperbole out of this and the man was protecting his property. This dog was a repeat offender and terrorizing the neighborhood. He was a good neighbor and asked them to fix the situation without ratting them out to local authorities, but in hindsight maybe he ought to have done that as well just to cover his butt. There are a lot of Thai animal activist groups springing up lately and I guess it's good but they ought to consider getting a consultation from a western country to help get them on the right track. Harassing this man outside his home in protest is exactly that, harassment. Thai's want animal rights but typical most don't want the responsibility that comes with it. Responsibility is socializing your domestic animals, and there are no if, and's or but's about it. Most domesticated dogs in Thailand are borderline feral and only socialized within the confines of their townhouse family. I've met friendlier soi dogs then some of these domesticated ones.

Dog's left to roam free in a neighborhood without proper socialization will always revert to their instinctive behavior. While everyone is up in arms about this poor animal and it's owner, with a Kodak moment perfect picture of some poor Thai woman knelt over the corpse of her dog has anyone considered the possibilities of what could have happened if no action was taken.

Two scenarios:

1. German man does like most foreigners and ends up hiding away in his house quietly cursing the second class citizen system we live in, his Rottweiler grows older bigger, wiser and stronger. Eventually he has enough and takes his pooch for a walk. Goldilocks decides it's still king <deleted> of the neighborhood and goes in to pick on his old friend from Deutschland. UBERMUTT decides enough is enough and takes out Thai Goldilocks. Now Thai's are demanding justice for this poor innocent family dog.
   
2. Same as before only this time the German man and UBERMUTT stay indoors. The family down the street has a child who's old enough to turn into a feral Thai Soi kid and they let it play unsupervised... par for the course. Goldilocks by this time is completely feral and his territorial pissing extend way outside the boundaries of the house and see's a small human animal and decides it's lunchtime. Now we have a dead child mauled by a vicious near feral animal, and the dog dies anyways because no one, not even a Thai is going to stand for a canine baby killer
   

It's a sticky situation but the fact is and remains the same. Thai's need to step up to the plate in this small manner and accept social responsibility for their friends, neighbors, children and elderly, and do the right thing by properly socializing their domesticated animals. Some will argue it is natural for dogs to fight, and it is... if they are wild. Once a human being takes on the responsibility of animal ownership, it is their duty to train those animals to curb those instincts and obey the law, human law for the good and well being of the rest of society.

On another note these so called animal rights groups are loudmouth obnoxious Thai at it's worst. For three years now I've gone to a fair at Kasetsart university where the puppy mills are operating in full swing selling sick dogs and puppies and cats for choice prices with no registration or breeding history to speak of, just a stones throw away from the Kasetsart Veterinary college. Get real Thai animal rights activists. Poseurs the whole lot of you.

[Thai at Heart]

Yes & no. Most dogs I meet on my daily constitutional are placid soi dogs & if you leave them alone they will leave you alone. But I have encountered the odd aggressive dog and found it useless to complain to the owner who just takes offence. Whether there is a law or not (& I don't know if there is), the police are not interested if there is no money involved.

Interesting. It sounds like you are saying placid unowned dogs, aggressive owned dogs. If so, that's exactly my experience as well. Pets on the loose are far more dangerous than dogs born on the street.

I hadn't thought about it, but you seem to be absolutely correct.

[johnlandy]

I would not hesitate to kill any dog who attacked me or threatened me.

These animal do good-ers (most likely family of the person most likely to have to cough up 300k) have gone tropo and off this planet.

In a civilized country, the dog would have been put down (killed) by Government authorities.

These people are outrageous. The lesson learnt here is that after you get bitten, in Thailand it is easier to smile and then poison them.

The sad reality in this country is that dogs have more rights than people.

I can agree that the method of killing the dog may have been a bit of an overkill (no pun intended) but what recourse do people have.

People including children get savaged by out of control dogs and it is the person who is bitten who is the guilty party.

For my money I would put 90% of the dogs down.

I know we cannot compare this country with a developed 1st world country but Thailand has to get itself into the 21 st century.

I know that I ask a lot when they have yet to become 3rd world.

[Dap]

Edit: Seemed to have lost the original quote. Back soon.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Dap

[Dap]

Gf showed me this posted on a Thai website, giving the Germans address and a map how to get there. Lucky there was only 20 turned up, could have got nasty. Surely illegal to give out his personal details, and try to stir up a mob in this manner?

Illegal?? They do the same to judges here.

[Beetlejuice]

The German should write his autobiography, titled, How To Gain Friends and Influence People.

These inhospitable types are not wanted here, deport him back to the Farangland and let him and his cuddly Rottenweiler become someone else’s problem.

[mamypoko]

I'm sorry, but a knife gets me a little too close the the business end of any dog. I'm thinking a mop, an alternative route, an handful of pepper....etc.

[yooper2001]

I live in sattahip and there are thousands of dogs running around. I do not leave the house without a stick to defend myself. The park has so many dogs that you cannot jog for fear of stepping in dog crap. What thailand needs is a nutering spaying program for the soi dogs