It's Time To Take A Close Look At Thailand

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE

It's time to take a close look at our country

PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- With New Year round the corner once again, many people are probably spending time reflecting or reviewing their actions over the past 12 months.

However, when it comes to reflecting and reviewing the state of Thai politics, human rights and democracy, many seem to be stuck in the present and are often unable to think long term. As always, many are caught in the all-consuming short-term conflicts and are not able to ask or say what needs to be done in order to turn their country into a democratic, liberal society in 30 or even 50 years from now.

If they can think long term, perhaps their priorities for today, next year and even the year after will change considerably and they will no longer be engrossed by a war of different colours.

For many who feel Thailand's move down the road to Constitutional democracy has been a "hopeless" failure, with more than a dozen coups and 18 charters, it must be pointed out that change only came about eight decades ago in 1932, while England proclaimed its Magna Carta in 1215.

If we look at things from a long-term perspective, we can't avoid paying greater attention to fundamental issues instead of focusing on the current conflict, which dictates that you annihilate or at least suppress those you disagree with via all means possible, be they legal or not.

We can pay more attention to issues like fostering a democratic culture or tackling an unjust structure of power. We can also ask what happens to the red, yellow or the multi-coloured shirts in say three decades from now. Will they prove that they were worth "dying for"?

As for people who support the lese majeste law out of their devotion to His Majesty. Will they be able to explain why they support this draconian law in say 20 or 30 years?

If we look at Thai democracy on a long-term basis, then we will likely recognise that there's a need to ensure civilian control over the military, particularly the Army.

With such long-term view, it is also necessary to bring those who committed crimes in April-May 2010 as well as those who had a hand in the Tak Bai and Krue Se incidents to justice.

With a clearer long-term vision for Thailand, people can perhaps detach themselves from the current raging emotions and likely see things that transpired over the past seven years as just another juncture in Thai history.

They will then be more able to focus on what matters in the long run and perhaps realise that turning Thailand into a democracy is a task spanning generations.

We need patience - patience for the electoral system to work, for democracy to work - instead of succumbing to the temptation of installing "good men" to govern by whatever means possible and without the consent of the majority.

The mass media is also guilty as it tends to be overwhelmingly consumed by the political conflicts of the day and knee-jerk reactions. If society cannot rely on the media to provide a clear vista on politics and democracy, then it will have to rely on itself and work toward a more democratic Thailand with a vision that is not dependent on anybody who might be pulling the strings from behind the scenes.

Our time on Earth is brief, so instead of just thinking about now or the next year, let's start thinking about what actions would be best for us 50 years hence and spend some time looking at what has transpired in Thai politics over the past half century or more.

-- The Nation 2012-12-19

[lemoncake]

Great article, there is another alternative which is already in practice. Do not teach history and skip all the periods such as this, so in 20-30 years a large majority would not even know what happened.

[Roadman]

The current generations with their 2/3rds majority of corruption acceptance will not have to worry about democracy (and for a lot of the Puu yai paid for votes would not have the education to even know what it is), as Thailand right now is slowly being brought under the total control of the Shinwatra dynasty.

I honesty do not know which is worst - the current assortment of lawless scum that pass themselves of as the Pheu Thai/ UDD/ Red hardcore, or the semi / educated thais who would have some basic understanding of the principles of democracy sitting in the 2/3rds of corruption acceptance.

About the only thing the article is able to get right is the use of "us" "we" "our". Sadly for the average thai and more so those sitting at the top with their mafia family claws into all branches of Thai governance they are foreign words and all they understand is me, my family and my cronies.

Edited to add that the media incapability is fully agreed with. But then as per the political hits in this country the media are probably also fully aware that the mafia would have no qualms to have them dealt to as well.

Thailand is sliding into lawlessness and corruption on a scale yet to be seen.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Roadman

[simple1]

Following on from post #3, in today's BKK Post it reports an assault on the deputy spokesman for the Democratic party who is also a member of their legal team. With the injuries sustained you could say it was attempted murder and as stated above creates a climate of fear for speaking out against the ruling party. These politically motivated actions and intimidation of the media are a disgrace to the international reputation of Thailand. Also today the outgoing Chinese president was quoted as saying corruption threatens to destroy the communist party and the state. He who cannot be named has made similar statements regards Thailand and yet appears, in practice, to be completely ignored.

[hanuman2543]

"Also today the outgoing Chinese president was quoted as saying corruption threatens to destroy the communist party and the state."

Really the right person to say something like this, when he and his family was able to aquire a fortune of 2,5 billion US$. Another hypocritic a!@$%^&hole and maybe a rolemodel for Thai politicians.

[arthurboy]

It's time to take a close look at our country.

Correct.

So - jeez, this is getting boring - let's have some truly investigative reporting on corruption from this newspaper.

[simple1]

"Also today the outgoing Chinese president was quoted as saying corruption threatens to destroy the communist party and the state."

Really the right person to say something like this, when he and his family was able to aquire a fortune of 2,5 billion US$. Another hypocritic a!@$%^&hole and maybe a rolemodel for Thai politicians.

Agree. BTW the illegal transfer of "dirty money" out of China, just in one year, 2010 is estimated to be US$400 billion. Total estimates for the period 2000/2012 is US$3.79 trillion. Of course those who fall out with the ruling elite are usually tried and executed on corruption charges. Don't know the estimates for Thailand, but for Malaysia between 2001/2010 estimated at US$285 billion.

Edited December 19, 2012 by simple1

[jcb2001]

With all this bad news, is there really hope for Thailand's democratic future?

[noitom]

Note that this editorial is classified as a "Burning Issue." The editorial chastises the "mass media" for picking up on "short term conflicts" yet it references the April-May 2010 incidents rather than sticking to its premise of developing a value in strategic vision based on individual freedom, due process of law, equality before the law, enforcement of law, and stop pandering to a do nothing mentality. Its comparison to the Magna Carta of 1215 is a preposterous comparison. Who would take the admonition of this newspaper to "look at 30-50 years from now when it makes such ridiculous outlandish statements in its own editorial case.

[Squigy]

Nobody in today's Thailand is interested in the future. Only interested in what happens to their bank account from their corrupt activities.

[chainarong]

Following on from post #3, in today's BKK Post it reports an assault on the deputy spokesman for the Democratic party who is also a member of their legal team. With the injuries sustained you could say it was attempted murder and as stated above creates a climate of fear for speaking out against the ruling party. These politically motivated actions and intimidation of the media are a disgrace to the international reputation of Thailand. Also today the outgoing Chinese president was quoted as saying corruption threatens to destroy the communist party and the state. He who cannot be named has made similar statements regards Thailand and yet appears, in practice, to be completely ignored.

Well done , pity both sides of Government and leaders of Thailand didn't read Thaivisa, they might learn a thing or two or though I do believe young Mark is a fan of T/Visa.

[PREM-R]

though I do believe young Mark is a fan of T/Visa.

Well he would be wouldn't he, different branches of the same tree

Edited December 19, 2012 by PREM-R

[LuckyLew]

Thailand will never change

People are too willing to accept the status quo

Thailand is a 3rd world country and heading towards 4th world

It is the home of corruption and as long as people accept it

it will remain the same

[Bagwan]

So who is going to take a good hard look at Thailand and map out it's future? A collection of retired/out of work statesmen and politicians from abroad? No way. Thailand couldn't bear the loss of face. So that leaves a Thai only committee and they'll all be wearing rose tinted glasses and looking over their shoulders in case they make a wrong turn and end up in a box at the local wat.

[bigbamboo]

The LM law relevant in twenty or thirty years?

We should be so lucky.

Edited December 19, 2012 by bigbamboo

[Misterwhisper]

I am getting a bit bored when Thai writers keep citing the Magna Carta and that it was drawn in 1215, and then move on to the blatant excuse how Thailand so far had "only" 80 years to develop a democracy. The Magna Carta surely cannot and must not be the yardstick by which to measure Thailand's democratic development. Besides, the Magna Carta was NOT a democratic constitution, but granted certain civil rights and liberties to the general population, while factual power continued to rest with the monarchy and the feudal lords.

If I'd use the same selective argumentation, I could state that Germany ratified and implemented a truly democratic constitution in 1919 (Weimar Republic), and then again in 1949 (Federal Republic of Germany). That was, respectively, "only" 93 and 63 years ago and blows the Thai argument that they had "only" 80 years right out of the water. Few will doubt that German society today is an epitome of democratic principles to which not only lip service is paid, but which are ingrained in and embraced by the population as a whole.

And this is exactly where Thailand's dilemma lies. "Democracy" in this country is just another over-used word, a bit like "hub" and "image". To make democracy work it needs a conscious population willing to actively support the principles that the word entices, not just using it as a kind of mantra, hoping that democracy will magically materialise if only the word is uttered often enough. Democracy does not only come with personal benefits, but it also demands certain duties and responsibilities from the individual, and this is where Thailand falls short. As long as a majority of people are selfish enough to play along with corruption because it serves their own purposes, blatantly disregard laws as long as it brings them some benefit, vote for political parties and individual politicians as long as they are rewarded with freebies, this country is not ready for democracy.

To spin this further (and revert back to the example of a very dark period in German history): Look what can happen if a large proportion of a country's population puts their trust in one single party, because that party promises them "golden times ahead". And that, dear Thai writers and so-called political analysts, happened "only" 79 years ago.

[simple1]

Well said Misterwhisper. However there is a fundamental difference comparing the development off democracy between Thailand and Germany. Aside from the endemic corruption to which you refer, Thailand does not have a well educated population for whom independence of thought is encouraged, nor a tradition in political philosophy & rational intelligent debate. All this plus the role of the military and police in Thailand who have a record of disobeying the will of the State. All in all, right now, Thailand is way behind the basics required for a truly democratic society.

Edited December 19, 2012 by simple1

[TackyToo]

With all this bad news, is there really hope for Thailand's democratic future?

You may ask the average Thai to explain democracy and you will find out there is no need to ask such questions.

[Misterwhisper]

Well said Misterwhisper. However there is a fundamental difference comparing the development off democracy between Thailand and Germany. Aside from the endemic corruption to which you refer, Thailand does not have a well educated population for whom independence of thought is encouraged, nor a tradition in political philosophy & rational intelligent debate. All this plus the role of the military and police in Thailand who have a record of disobeying the will of the State. All in all, right now, Thailand is way behind the basics required for a truly democratic society.

You are absolutely right. I should have mentioned that as well. Education is a prerequisite, and rationality doesn't grow on trees, but needs to be cultured in an individual.

[Tanaka]

Great article, there is another alternative which is already in practice. Do not teach history and skip all the periods such as this, so in 20-30 years a large majority would not even know what happened.

Schools in Thailand already do not teach history.

[hellodolly]

It's time to take a close look at our country.

Correct.

So - jeez, this is getting boring - let's have some truly investigative reporting on corruption from this newspaper.

It is against TV policy to quote from the Bangkok Post so you can forget even a slip slop attempt at investigating for the press here.

[hellodolly]

I am getting a bit bored when Thai writers keep citing the Magna Carta and that it was drawn in 1215, and then move on to the blatant excuse how Thailand so far had "only" 80 years to develop a democracy. The Magna Carta surely cannot and must not be the yardstick by which to measure Thailand's democratic development. Besides, the Magna Carta was NOT a democratic constitution, but granted certain civil rights and liberties to the general population, while factual power continued to rest with the monarchy and the feudal lords.

If I'd use the same selective argumentation, I could state that Germany ratified and implemented a truly democratic constitution in 1919 (Weimar Republic), and then again in 1949 (Federal Republic of Germany). That was, respectively, "only" 93 and 63 years ago and blows the Thai argument that they had "only" 80 years right out of the water. Few will doubt that German society today is an epitome of democratic principles to which not only lip service is paid, but which are ingrained in and embraced by the population as a whole.

And this is exactly where Thailand's dilemma lies. "Democracy" in this country is just another over-used word, a bit like "hub" and "image". To make democracy work it needs a conscious population willing to actively support the principles that the word entices, not just using it as a kind of mantra, hoping that democracy will magically materialise if only the word is uttered often enough. Democracy does not only come with personal benefits, but it also demands certain duties and responsibilities from the individual, and this is where Thailand falls short. As long as a majority of people are selfish enough to play along with corruption because it serves their own purposes, blatantly disregard laws as long as it brings them some benefit, vote for political parties and individual politicians as long as they are rewarded with freebies, this country is not ready for democracy.

To spin this further (and revert back to the example of a very dark period in German history): Look what can happen if a large proportion of a country's population puts their trust in one single party, because that party promises them "golden times ahead". And that, dear Thai writers and so-called political analysts, happened "only" 79 years ago.

spot on

there is a difference and an important difference between Germany and Thailand and that is one has an educated population and the other one dosen't.

Other than that you have hit the nail on the head.

[backtonormal]

I am getting a bit bored when Thai writers keep citing the Magna Carta and that it was drawn in 1215, and then move on to the blatant excuse how Thailand so far had "only" 80 years to develop a democracy. The Magna Carta surely cannot and must not be the yardstick by which to measure Thailand's democratic development. Besides, the Magna Carta was NOT a democratic constitution, but granted certain civil rights and liberties to the general population, while factual power continued to rest with the monarchy and the feudal lords.

If I'd use the same selective argumentation, I could state that Germany ratified and implemented a truly democratic constitution in 1919 (Weimar Republic), and then again in 1949 (Federal Republic of Germany). That was, respectively, "only" 93 and 63 years ago and blows the Thai argument that they had "only" 80 years right out of the water. Few will doubt that German society today is an epitome of democratic principles to which not only lip service is paid, but which are ingrained in and embraced by the population as a whole.

And this is exactly where Thailand's dilemma lies. "Democracy" in this country is just another over-used word, a bit like "hub" and "image". To make democracy work it needs a conscious population willing to actively support the principles that the word entices, not just using it as a kind of mantra, hoping that democracy will magically materialise if only the word is uttered often enough. Democracy does not only come with personal benefits, but it also demands certain duties and responsibilities from the individual, and this is where Thailand falls short. As long as a majority of people are selfish enough to play along with corruption because it serves their own purposes, blatantly disregard laws as long as it brings them some benefit, vote for political parties and individual politicians as long as they are rewarded with freebies, this country is not ready for democracy.

To spin this further (and revert back to the example of a very dark period in German history): Look what can happen if a large proportion of a country's population puts their trust in one single party, because that party promises them "golden times ahead". And that, dear Thai writers and so-called political analysts, happened "only" 79 years ago.

spot on

there is a difference and an important difference between Germany and Thailand and that is one has an educated population and the other one dosen't.

Other than that you have hit the nail on the head.

More importantly lets debate why they have not been educated and who benefits from them not being educated.because its not Thailand

[whybother]

More importantly lets debate why they have not been educated and who benefits from them not being educated.because its not Thailand

Given that a lot of them "support" PTP, it would seem to benefit the PTP.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Democracy is essentially the right to have a say in how the country is governed by the exercise of a vote. It's a vitally important constituent of a well ordered society but not the only constituent. India is a democratic country,indeed the world's largest democracy, but there are considerable shortcomings in the way it is run.

My own thoughts are that good administration and a general belief in the population that the country must be free of corruption are critical elements in the advancement of and maturity of statehood.

It took the European countries the best part of 1000 years to get where they are today. Thailand is heading in the right direction but Rome wasn't built in a day.

If you believe personally in a democratic and well ordered society in Thailand, then you have a duty to help them achieve it by always behaving in a manner which is consistent with citizenship of the advanced democratic countries of the world.

[ccarbaugh]

I thought the OP was a well written article

that is a refreshing break from the "knee-jerk"

mentality of the "crisis-of-the-day." I wish

I could say that Thailand is progressing but

it still seems to be hopelessly mired in

corruption, cronyism, "LM" nonsense and

an inefficient "goldfish-bowl" education system.